Quick Thoughts - 2015 Summer League Finals (Spurs vs. Suns)

It's gonna be a year to remember! Thanks for the write up, and letting us newbs in!

I'm excited:
http://media.giphy.com/media/RVQ4ZYJjKWmIg/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Bartleby

Agreed. Three years, tops. Obviously, one of the quickest ways to build a team around the "Spurs way" of playing ball is to hire a coach who already has that corporate knowledge, and it doesn't hurt Becky's prospects that one of Pop's former players and one of his assistant coaches (Kerr and Bud) had historically good seasons running their respective teams using the Spurs as a model.

Not to mention the PR a team would receive, which would dwarf the attention she and the Spurs got when she was hired as an assistant coach.

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THere are different kinds of coaches out there. Chip Engeland is an elite shooting coach, but I don't think he wants to be a head coach. Hammon is a good development coach and was perfect for SL type play. I would say she would also do well as a D-league coach. Hammon is able to convince players to tough it out at the same time be precise with their plays. NBA Head coach material? Unless it is an NBA franchise that already has a good system (most don't), it'll be a stretch if she's chosen to be the one to insert a new system. Too many egos in NBA organizations to allow her to come in and clean up organizations.

Well who knows, maybe the Sixers need a lot of help developing their young talent. There's also the Jazz which Quin Schneider who comes from coaching the Austin Toros. Like she said, she still needs to figure out what kind of coach she is.

Thanks for the writeup. Ive never caught a summer league game, it is cool the Spurs won it though. I prefer winning championships in June :lol but hey, nothing wrong with a July title.

Thanks for the writeup OP.

Hard to follow the Summer league tbh.

Didn't see Deshaun Thomas in summer league this year. Any of the European Spur fans been following him? He did impress a year or two ago in summer. Jarell Eddie looks like a similar player on offense and he may get the training camp invite. Is Deshaun just not looking good in Europe?

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Originally Posted by 808

Thanks for all your summer observations. Looking forward to 82 more this coming season :toast

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Thanks OP, enjoying your writeup as always. :flag:

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Originally Posted by Dro210

Yea I think they're for sure content.

Way I see it, there's 144 minutes between the 1-2-3 spots:

32 for Kawhi, 29 for Danny, 28 for Tony, 19 for Manu, 18 for Patty.
That's 126 minutes. Leaving 18 for KA and Simmons, with RayRay trying to get in on the action too. Throw in some small ball lineups that have Kawhi, or even Kyle at the 4; that wouldn't happen often or for long, so you'd likely only gain a few minutes there.

You could break it down to 96 at the 2-3:

29 for Kawhi (all at 3), 29 for Danny, 13 for Manu (all at 2), 6 for Patty (all at 2).
That's 77. Leaving 19 minutes at the 2-3. I think 11 at the SF (if you gave Kawhi 3 minutes at the 4), and 8 at SG

96 min breakdown for 1-2:

28 for Tony (all at 1), 21 for Danny (all at 2), 19 for Manu, 18 for Patty.
That's 88. Leaving 10 minutes at the 1-2. 8 at SG like I said, and 2 for RayRay (or even the Simmons or KA at PG experiment? Doubtful). The 2 third string PG minutes is the one that seems off since Cojo averaged so many minutes last year, but idk where I'm off. Maybe too many of Manu's minutes at point (6), but seems like that could just be adjusted to less time at 2 for Patty (also 6) and more at the 1.

I'm pulling these number out of my ass, but I think they're fairly accurate. Maybe somebody has something better?... but I think it shows that during a key game that goes the distance, where Kawhi's jumped up to 38-40 minutes and DG's at 35, there's not all that much left. LMA is gonna play more than Splitter ever did, and DWest is gonna play more than The Banga. Timmy will play slightly less than last year.

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You're not giving the new PG Macallum enough credit. He'll get some minutes for sure at backup. Many observers thought the trade that got him here was a real steal of the off season. We just haven't seen much of him on TV yet. RC said we couldn't have got him if he had been a FA because there would have been a lot of interest and he would have been priced out of our reach.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

You're not giving the new PG Macallum enough credit. He'll get some minutes for sure at backup. Many observers thought the trade that got him here was a real steal of the off season. We just haven't seen much of him on TV yet. RC said we couldn't have got him if he had been a FA because there would have been a lot of interest and he would have been priced out of our reach.

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Well like I said, that was the obvious error in those numbers once I had typed it all out. I agree there's minutes for him in there somewhere, just have to make some slight adjustments.

I've seen McCallum play plenty tho. League Pass.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

You're not giving the new PG Macallum enough credit. He'll get some minutes for sure at backup. Many observers thought the trade that got him here was a real steal of the off season. We just haven't seen much of him on TV yet. RC said we couldn't have got him if he had been a FA because there would have been a lot of interest and he would have been priced out of our reach.

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RC even mentioned that he'll be better at running Spurs offense than Cojo. So expect at least same amount of minutes that CoJo had last year.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

RC even mentioned that he'll be better at running Spurs offense than Cojo. So expect at least same amount of minutes that CoJo had last year.

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All RC said was that's he's better at running an offense at the same stage in their careers. RC never said anything about him being better at running the Spurs offense, or that he was better at it right now.

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Originally Posted by Old School 44

I think it will happen sooner than that. I'm thinking a year or two. I'm not saying whether it's deserving or not, I just think an owner will take a shot.

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I don't believe it for a second. There's too much bias and groupthink out there. If you're a GM and you hire a normal candidate and they fail, you can say that it was just one of those things. If you're the guy who hires the female head coach and she fails, it's your fault for sticking your neck out and doing something risky.

Don't get me wrong, I hope she succeeds. I'm a woman, and a feminist, and I'm cheering for her all the way. But I'm pessimistic about whether NB players will really accept her as a head coach.

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

I don't believe it for a second. There's too much bias and groupthink out there. If you're a GM and you hire a normal candidate and they fail, you can say that it was just one of those things. If you're the guy who hires the female head coach and she fails, it's your fault for sticking your neck out and doing something risky.

Don't get me wrong, I hope she succeeds. I'm a woman, and a feminist, and I'm cheering for her all the way. But I'm pessimistic about whether NB players will really accept her as a head coach.

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If some team considers Becky as a head coach I'm sure the owner will be the one making the decision, not the GM. Just like a player with a less than stellar reputation, if you're talented, someone will give you a shot, because they will think the rewards far outweigh the risks.

If she fails, she fails. Almost every coach gets fired some time during their career. It's just part of being a coach.

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Originally Posted by BatManu20

I agree with OP's write up on Jerrel Eddie. Today was one of his worst shooting performances but we've seen enough of him in the other games and in Austin to know he's a deadly 3-point shooter. He showed me more today than I've seen in him in the first few games combined with his ball movement, effort on D, and coming off of screens and knowing when to shoot and when to pass. He also showed some athleticism with that break away dunk. He's never going to be a good defender, but like timvp said, at the 15th spot, there's a good chance we're not going to find a better option at this point. I hope we at least get him in camp and give him a shot to improve and show he's more than the one-dimensional player he looked to be the past week. He also has better size than I realized. I thought he was a slim 6'6 but he's listed at 6'7 220 lbs at 23 years of age.

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May be me but I feel the complete opposite in regards to the bold. Feel like the dude wanted to shoot every possession of the game he was on the court. Thing that got to me the most was in transition I felt he was more worried about where on the 3 point line he could run, rather than what lane was the best to run.

Maybe it's me, I haven't looked at the stat sheets to know his FGA, but just off of feel he didn't look to be making the right decisions. $.02

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Originally Posted by Old School 44

If some team considers Becky as a head coach I'm sure the owner will be the one making the decision, not the GM. Just like a player with a less than stellar reputation, if you're talented, someone will give you a shot, because they will think the rewards far outweigh the risks.

If she fails, she fails. Almost every coach gets fired some time during their career. It's just part of being a coach.

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You say that like you think it would mean the same thing if she got fired. When a male coach gets fired, it's just some guy getting fired. If and when the first female coach gets fired, it will provide ammunition to all the guys who say a woman has no business being there.

It would be like Jackie Robinson getting cut and released from a team. He didn't have to just prove that he was good enough to play ball, he had to prove that he was so good that he was unimpeachable. As the first female assistant coach in a major male sports league, Becky Hamlin has a similar kind of pressure in her. And if she gets a much more visible job as head coach, it will be far, far worse than it is now.

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Originally Posted by Dro210

Yea I think they're for sure content.

Way I see it, there's 144 minutes between the 1-2-3 spots:

32 for Kawhi, 29 for Danny, 28 for Tony, 19 for Manu, 18 for Patty.
That's 126 minutes. Leaving 18 for KA and Simmons, with RayRay trying to get in on the action too. Throw in some small ball lineups that have Kawhi, or even Kyle at the 4; that wouldn't happen often or for long, so you'd likely only gain a few minutes there.

You could break it down to 96 at the 2-3:

29 for Kawhi (all at 3), 29 for Danny, 13 for Manu (all at 2), 6 for Patty (all at 2).
That's 77. Leaving 19 minutes at the 2-3. I think 11 at the SF (if you gave Kawhi 3 minutes at the 4), and 8 at SG

96 min breakdown for 1-2:

28 for Tony (all at 1), 21 for Danny (all at 2), 19 for Manu, 18 for Patty.
That's 88. Leaving 10 minutes at the 1-2. 8 at SG like I said, and 2 for RayRay (or even the Simmons or KA at PG experiment? Doubtful). The 2 third string PG minutes is the one that seems off since Cojo averaged so many minutes last year, but idk where I'm off. Maybe too many of Manu's minutes at point (6), but seems like that could just be adjusted to less time at 2 for Patty (also 6) and more at the 1.

I'm pulling these number out of my ass, but I think they're fairly accurate. Maybe somebody has something better?... but I think it shows that during a key game that goes the distance, where Kawhi's jumped up to 38-40 minutes and DG's at 35, there's not all that much left. LMA is gonna play more than Splitter ever did, and DWest is gonna play more than The Banga. Timmy will play slightly less than last year.

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Patty was out for at least a couple months, so cojo was 2nd string.

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Originally Posted by Aztecfan03

Patty was out for at least a couple months, so cojo was 2nd string.

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:tu

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Originally Posted by Dro210

:tu

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im sure you got this, but i meant 2nd string for that portion.

all in all, because of people missing games, adding up everyones mpg's will equal more than 48*5

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Originally Posted by Aztecfan03

im sure you got this, but i meant 2nd string for that portion.

all in all, because of people missing games, adding up everyones mpg's will equal more than 48*5

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Yea, I get all that. I guess what I was trying to say is that it seems like, everybody healthy, he would have averaged more than the ~2 minutes I had left for him in my breakdown. But it's just slight little slides from the other 1-2s, and I also wasn't accounting for him putting in minutes at the 2, it was pretty late when I made that post.

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

You say that like you think it would mean the same thing if she got fired. When a male coach gets fired, it's just some guy getting fired. If and when the first female coach gets fired, it will provide ammunition to all the guys who say a woman has no business being there.

It would be like Jackie Robinson getting cut and released from a team. He didn't have to just prove that he was good enough to play ball, he had to prove that he was so good that he was unimpeachable. As the first female assistant coach in a major male sports league, Becky Hamlin has a similar kind of pressure in her. And if she gets a much more visible job as head coach, it will be far, far worse than it is now.

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I agree.

In addition, what GM or owner would want in their reputation the fact they hired and fired the first female NBA head coach. A lot of risk involved here. Not the typical NBA coach that you can try out and fire at a whim.

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

You say that like you think it would mean the same thing if she got fired. When a male coach gets fired, it's just some guy getting fired. If and when the first female coach gets fired, it will provide ammunition to all the guys who say a woman has no business being there.

It would be like Jackie Robinson getting cut and released from a team. He didn't have to just prove that he was good enough to play ball, he had to prove that he was so good that he was unimpeachable. As the first female assistant coach in a major male sports league, Becky Hamlin has a similar kind of pressure in her. And if she gets a much more visible job as head coach, it will be far, far worse than it is now.

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I do think it will be hard and I do think it would be different, but how will we ever get beyond that glass ceiling if no one takes the first step. In the coaching profession it is rare to become "unimpeachable". Look at some of the winningest coaches like Larry Brown, George Karl, Don Nelson to name a few, all have been fired somewhere along the line.

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Originally Posted by Old School 44

I do think it will be hard and I do think it would be different, but how will we ever get beyond that glass ceiling if no one takes the first step. In the coaching profession it is rare to become "unimpeachable". Look at some of the winningest coaches like Larry Brown, George Karl, Don Nelson to name a few, all have been fired somewhere along the line.

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Oh no, I know. And believe me, I'm pulling for her like you wouldn't believe. I just worry about all the difficuties involved in doing this in the real world, and I don't think they should be downplayed. That's all