Bowen vs. Danny Green?

With Bowen's jersey retired, considering his accomplishments with the spurs and sacrifices...I've been wondering a lot on how Danny will be seen five or six years from now if the spurs win another ring or two.

Bowen

- Great Defender with the luxury of having one of the best defensive bigman in the league and a younger Parker that didn't need help on defense

- Very good three pointer.

Danny Green

- Great defender with the luxury of playing alongside one of the best perimeter defender ever but an older and slower TD, and having to cover for an aging TP

- Greatest three point shooter in the NBA Finals

- 1 Ring and two finals

- Made one of the biggest financial sacrifices in team History...

If Danny wins another, does he deserve to have his jersey Retired?

Hypotetlixly, If you have the option now...Would you choose Bowen over Green?

I'm going with Green since he's a much deadlier three point shooter.

I'm still a Bowen fan but Green >>>>>> Bruce easily.

If the Leonard and Green duo stick together, I see no reason why Green's jersey won't be retired someday

bowen wouldve shut down cp3, tbh

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

I'm still a Bowen fan but Green >>>>>> Bruce easily.

If the Leonard and Green duo stick together, I see no reason why Green's jersey won't be retired someday

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If Johnson jersey is retired, it would be a joke not see Danny's retired..Provided he stays his whole career and the spurs win another one..IMO.

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

I'm still a Bowen fan but Green >>>>>> Bruce easily.

If the Leonard and Green duo stick together, I see no reason why Green's jersey won't be retired someday

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Cosigned

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Originally Posted by Holden_Caulfield

bowen wouldve shut down cp3, tbh

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Of course, he would have been playing with a young TD..one of the most well rounded defensive big the league has ever seen.

I'd take Bowen. He instilled fear in his opponents. He was ridiculously good at getting under the opponents skin and just irritating the fuck out of them. Plus they'd be a little worried about the possibility of Bruce injuring them.

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Originally Posted by Holden_Caulfield

bowen wouldve shut down cp3, tbh

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Dude couldn't even shut down Nash.

Green, primarily because he's a two-way player. If I had to choose one's defense over another, I'd select Bowen.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Dude couldn't even shut down Nash.

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Nobody could.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Of course, he would have been playing with a young TD..one of the most well rounded defensive big the league has ever seen.

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bowen regardless of how great timmy is, was a very good defender on his own. i would take bowen 1v1 def over danny 9/10

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Dude couldn't even shut down Nash.

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Was about to say this...

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Nobody could.

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Just like no one can shut down the good players that Green and Leonard routinely shut down? In this case, Bowen wasn't even a speed bump against Nash.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

With Bowen's jersey retired, considering his accomplishments with the spurs and sacrifices...I've been wondering a lot on how Danny will be seen five or six years from now if the spurs win another ring or two.

Bowen

- Great Defender with the luxury of having one of the best defensive bigman in the league and a younger Parker that didn't need help on defense

- Very good three pointer.

Danny Green

- Great defender with the luxury of playing alongside one of the best perimeter defender ever but an older and slower TD, and having to cover for an aging TP

- Greatest three point shooter in the NBA Finals

- 1 Ring and two finals

- Made one of the biggest financial sacrifices in team History...

If Danny wins another, does he deserve to have his jersey Retired?

Hypotetlixly, If you have the option now...Would you choose Bowen over Green?

I'm going with Green since he's a much deadlier three point shooter.

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player fan

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Dude couldn't even shut down Nash.

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nash>>cp3

People talking about Bruce while having no clue about him...

Stick to trolling, kid, you don't have the level to do more.

Bruce rang thrice last time i checked and is undefeated on the Finals... DG would need to at least win two more and be the shutdown D player on each ring run (Kawhi has that role now) that Bruce was to be put in the same category. Bruce>DG still

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Originally Posted by Holden_Caulfield

nash>>cp3

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Why? Why was everyone in Bowen's day better than their modern counterparts? It's crazy how people try to justify the lower standard for defense last decade. Same people usually think Memphis just keeps getting screwed out of playoff wins every year.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Just like no one can shut down the good players that Green and Leonard routinely shut down? In this case, Bowen wasn't even a speed bump against Nash.

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:lol I don't know. If the Spurs put prime Bruce on Alexey Shved, Spurs probably walk away with the 2 seed. I'm not sure why such vitriol towards Bruce. Did he knee you in the nuts and take your wallet? I'm not even sure Green or Leonard could stop a prime Nash. He was one, if not the best overall player in the league.

Bowen: 3

Green: 1.

Lettuce proceed

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Originally Posted by urunobili

Bruce rang thrice last time i checked and is undefeated on the Finals... DG would need to at least win two more and be the shutdown D player on each ring run (Kawhi has that role now) that Bruce was to be put in the same category. Bruce>DG still

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In that case, Barry is better than Patty because he rang more than him. Good argument indeed.

I'll take whoever doesn't get shut down by Matt Barnes tbh. So both :tu

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

:lol I don't know. If the Spurs put prime Bruce on Alexey Shved, Spurs probably walk away with the 2 seed. I'm not sure why such vitriol towards Bruce. Did he knee you in the nuts and take your wallet? I'm not even sure Green or Leonard could stop a prime Nash. He was one, if not the best overall player in the league.

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I think Bowen is mad overrated by fans who can't be objective. People don't realize how much better the Spurs defense is than it was with Bowen. Back then, the idea was that great players were going to get theirs and you just had to do your best to make things harder on them. But the Spurs can actually render the opposing stars ineffective for whole series with their defensive personnel. And it's not like Bruce didn't have advantages Green and Leonard don't have. Players were allowed to play much more physically than they are now. So the fact that the Spurs put up superior efforts against stars is even more impressive, given that it's extremely hard with the current rules to "get into the heads" of opponents.

Green and Leonard would be elite defenders in Bowen's era. At best, Bowen would be Tony Allen with worst driving skills but better shooting. And even though Allen has elite defensive metrics, he's barely a plus player against good opponents.

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Originally Posted by Kool Bob Love

Bowen: 3

Green: 1.

Lettuce proceed

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Bonner: 2

Robinson: 2

Quite the pickle you've created.

I love Bruce and everything he did for the Spurs, but Green is the superior player.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I think Bowen is mad overrated by fans who can't be objective. People don't realize how much better the Spurs defense is than it was with Bowen. Back then, the idea was that great players were going to get theirs and you just had to do your best to make things harder on them. But the Spurs can actually render the opposing stars ineffective for whole series with their defensive personnel. And it's not like Bruce didn't have advantages Green and Leonard don't have. Players were allowed to play much more physically than they are now. So the fact that the Spurs put up superior efforts against stars is even more impressive, given that it's extremely hard with the current rules to "get into the heads" of opponents.

Green and Leonard would be elite defenders in Bowen's era. At best, Bowen would be Tony Allen with worst driving skills but better shooting. And even though Allen has elite defensive metrics, he's barely a plus player against good opponents.

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Green without a doubt has more talent than Bowen ever had. That said, Bowen put a lot more effort into the game and was more focused. Green tends to coast or become extremely passive, this makes a lot of fans crazy because they all know that he can do better. With Bowen we were all content when he made an occasional 3 pointerl, but we wouldn't care much if he didn't contribute to the offense.

Green.

Bruce never needed to rebound assist score steal block. He just had to defend. He had prime timmy behind him. It's a lot closer than people think. 50/50 for me.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Green without a doubt has more talent than Bowen ever had. That said, Bowen put a lot more effort into the game and was more focused. Green tends to coast or become extremely passive, this makes a lot of fans crazy because they all know that he can do better. With Bowen we were all content when he made an occasional 3 pointerl, but we wouldn't care much if he didn't contribute to the offense.

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Yeah, but that was good enough back then. It's not now. Bowen would be a near liability seeing as teams are much better at protecting against the corner three now. Since Bruce wasn't a threat anywhere else on the court, his spacing impact would be lessened if he played now. He might not be Allen bad, but he'd struggle to be a plus player, especially since the Big Three are each well past their prime. Imagine how much better the Spurs' spacing would have been had they had Green there instead. Danny has one of the highest gravities in the league. Having him and Horry on the wings (the physical location, not the position) would completely open up the court for the Big Three.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Bonner: 2

Robinson: 2

Quite the pickle you've created.

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thread is about green and Bowen tho.

I dont understand anyone saying Green is a superior player to Green, they are both 3&D who can do little else. Bowen was assisted on 99.6% of his 3's while Danny on "only" 94%. Bowen was a better defender and a legit DPOY candidate every year, whereas Danny may never make an all defense team.

Green is obviously a better shooter but Bowen was still elite. Bruces first year was his worst, but from 02-03 until he retired he shot 41% from 3, compared to Danny who has shot 42.5% from 3 since 2011-12. Im surprised by this considering how great Danny has been, but Bowen actually shot better for the Spurs in the playoffs than Danny has, 44% to 43%. Both are incredible numbers and Danny put up much more volume which counts for something.

Neither of them can do much else at an NBA level. Personally I'm taking Bruces better defense over Greens marginally better shooting.

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Originally Posted by urunobili

Bruce rang thrice last time i checked and is undefeated on the Finals... DG would need to at least win two more and be the shutdown D player on each ring run (Kawhi has that role now) that Bruce was to be put in the same category. Bruce>DG still

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Kawhi is the best defender in the league, but why do people forget that Danny is almost always going to take 50% of kawhi responsibility in terms of guarding the best player?

And Danny's time on superstars now will be even more with Leonard's increased offensive responsiblity.

In the last two month of the season last year, Danny was the designated stopper..he spent more time on the 1 options than Kawhi.

Fuck Bruce. He took DPOY votes away from Duncan. Such a travesty.

Bowen severely limited Nash's effectiveness in 2007, forcing him to be a scorer, resulting in him turning it over repeatedly iirc. Green will be the better player once he's done, but at this stage he's had 3.5 good seasons and Bowen had 7 effective ones.

Why does the Op include rings/finals appearances under Green but not Bowen?

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Originally Posted by Richie

I dont understand anyone saying Green is a superior player to Green, they are both 3&D who can do little else. Bowen was assisted on 99.6% of his 3's while Danny on "only" 94%. Bowen was a better defender and a legit DPOY candidate every year, whereas Danny may never make an all defense team.

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No one's arguing that Bowen is more hyped that Green, which is all that DPOY and All-Defense establishes.

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Green is obviously a better shooter but Bowen was still elite. Bruces first year was his worst, but from 02-03 until he retired he shot 41% from 3, compared to Danny who has shot 42.5% from 3 since 2011-12. Im surprised by this considering how great Danny has been, but Bowen actually shot better for the Spurs in the playoffs than Danny has, 44% to 43%. Both are incredible numbers and Danny put up much more volume which counts for something.

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Green takes harder shots and shots that are more helpful to the offense (especially nowadays) than Bowen did. This doesn't even mention that you can run plays for Green to get shots much more easily than you can for Bowen. Looking at percentages doesn't come close to establishing offensive importance. The two leaders in TS% last season were Korver and Chandler, but there's no question which one of the two was more deadly to a defense. Harder shots and more dynamic shots matter.

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Neither of them can do much else at an NBA level. Personally I'm taking Bruces better defense over Greens marginally better shooting.

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Bowen's Spurs per-36 numbers: 8/4/2/1/0 (rounded, obviously)
Green's Spurs per-36 numbers: 14/5/2/2/1

The production just wasn't there. Bruce was a niche player, while Danny is a legit starting two in any era.

Bruce Bowen and it isn't even close. There was a time when the NBA wasn't a ticky tack hand-check foul league, and Bruce Bowen played prior to that era. Also, comparing the two isn't even fair because Danny Green would never have defended any prime PFs in KG or Dirk like the way Bowen did.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Kawhi is the best defender in the league, but why do people forget that Danny is almost always going to take 50% of kawhi responsibility in terms of guarding the best player?

And Danny's time on superstars now will be even more with Leonard's increased offensive responsiblity.

In the last two month of the season last year, Danny was the designated stopper..he spent more time on the 1 options than Kawhi.

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Depending on the nature of the series, they switch off between being CB and FS. For most of the second half of the RS, Kawhi played FS and was a steal and block maestro. For the 2014 WCF and Finals, Leonard was the CB and Green was the FS, pretty much shutting down whichever role-player was trying to go off and rotating down to protect the paint.

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Originally Posted by sexinthatsx

There was a time when the NBA wasn't a ticky tack hand-check foul league, and Bruce Bowen played prior to that era.

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You say that like it's an advantage to Green that it's harder to guard players nowadays.

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Also, comparing the two isn't even fair because Danny Green would never have defended any prime PFs in KG or Dirk like the way Bowen did.

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"Defend" is pretty generous considering the fact that Dirk took Bowen to the cleaners.

Green capable of 400+ 3ptfga per year and make 40%+. That is a significant difference.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Why? Why was everyone in Bowen's day better than their modern counterparts? It's crazy how people try to justify the lower standard for defense last decade. Same people usually think Memphis just keeps getting screwed out of playoff wins every year.

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Didn't even realize people thought this.

I think a better question, honestly, should be Bowen vs. Kawhi Leonard on defense only. Who is better?

Green is playing in the toughest conference ever..

In a league that's harder to defend because of offensive diversity. :lol

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Originally Posted by honestfool84

I think a better question, honestly, should be Bowen vs. Kawhi Leonard on defense only. Who is better?

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It's easier, if that's what you mean. Kawhi. Bowen is overrated.

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Didn't even realize people thought this.

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Yeah. :cry only a Zbo suspension and Conley injury away from back-to-back titles :cry

Bowen was the best perimeter defender in the league for years...consistently brought the edge every single night. And he made the defense pay for sagging off the corner. I like Green a lot, but his defense isn't consistently elite like Bowen. Unfortunately he does suffer by comparison to Kawhi, but I think he would've also suffered by comparison to Bowen. People may also forget that Bowen added a one-dribble mid-range pull up to his game after defenses started closing hard. In other words, he wasn't a one trick pony on offense.

So, for me it's Bowen and the one reason why...consistency.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

No one's arguing that Bowen is more hyped that Green, which is all that DPOY and All-Defense establishes.

Green takes harder shots and shots that are more helpful to the offense (especially nowadays) than Bowen did. This doesn't even mention that you can run plays for Green to get shots much more easily than you can for Bowen. Looking at percentages doesn't come close to establishing offensive importance. The two leaders in TS% last season were Korver and Chandler, but there's no question which one of the two was more deadly to a defense. Harder shots and more dynamic shots matter.

Bowen's Spurs per-36 numbers: 8/4/2/1/0 (rounded, obviously)
Green's Spurs per-36 numbers: 14/5/2/2/1

The production just wasn't there. Bruce was a niche player, while Danny is a legit starting two in any era.

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Saying Bruce was less important to the offense is meaningless when you consider that he played with 3 Hall of Famers in their primes. They are both capable of playing the same role on each others teams, Bowen could do everything for the '14 Spurs that Danny did and the same goes for Green and the mid '00s Spurs. Danny scores nearly twice as many points because he takes nearly twice as many threes, that's just an indication of the way the game has changed in the past 5-10 years. If Bowen played today he'd be averaging 12+ points on nearly 7 3PA per 36 just like Green is.

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Green capable of 400+ 3ptfga per year and make 40%+. That is a significant difference.

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Just because Bowen didn't do it doesn't mean he wasn't capable, the game has changed.

70% of the earth is covered by water the rest is covered by bruce

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Originally Posted by Richie

Saying Bruce was less important to the offense is meaningless when you consider that he played with 3 Hall of Famers in their primes. They are both capable of playing the same role on each others teams, Bowen could do everything for the '14 Spurs that Danny did and the same goes for Green and the mid '00s Spurs. Danny scores nearly twice as many points because he takes nearly twice as many threes, that's just an indication of the way the game has changed in the past 5-10 years. If Bowen played today he'd be averaging 12+ points on nearly 7 3PA per 36 just like Green is.

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Most of this is unsubstantiated, but the bolded is just absurd. Bowen could hit the corner three at a decent rate (for corner threes). Danny's a better shooter from the corner, but he's also able to expand his range around the arch. That's critical to spacing in the modern NBA. Bowen isn't close.

Would Bowen be able to keep up with a guy like Westbrook?

I have always been a Bowen fan but I think Verde is the better player.

Bruce was my third favorite spur before behind td and manu but green is just a better overall player. I do think bruce has a slight edge defensively. Still taking Verde.

It's Bowen if we are ignoring circumstances, tbh..however, playing in the handcheck era with prime Duncan(and Alonzo Mourning) behind you certainly helps your defense..

Bowen and not even close, probably my second favorite spur, gave us a winning mentality that Green is lacking, Green is nice guy and it's not fitting his role and it's hurt the Spurs, tend to totally desapeer for long sections in playoff serieses...

Nobody wears the bow tie like Bowen!!!

CP3 toyed with the Spurs throughout round 1. Iirc he had 1 poor game

Bowen invented the 3 and D.

Bowen and it's honestly not that close. One, Bowen was a terrific athlete and just an iron man. Nigga played and started 500 straight games and the only reason his streak was broken was because of a questionable suspension. And that was in his mid and late thirties for fucks sake.

Bowen could guard one through five, as well. Not one on one every night every possession, no no no kids. Guys like Dirk and Kobe still got theirs when they managed to get the ball. But thats just the thing... The reason Bowen could shut down the likes of Peja, Kobe and ZBo was him being absolutely adept at denying opposing players the ball in their comfort zone. No stat, traditional or advanced, can quantify the psychological effect of disrupting a player's rhythm and often times, the entire flow of the offense.

And let's not mince words here: Bowen was dirty. He stretched the rules to the max and was extremely physical. I remember players and coaches literally complaining that the refs let him punch players on the court. Green just doesnt have that edge about him. We all remember him showing up to the Heat's post championship party.

Bowen was more clutch defensively, as well. He always seemed to come through big on that end in the most important moments. The game he outscored Kobe was an indirect result of his tenacious defense. The block on Dirk, game 5 of the 2006 WCSF. The block on Chauncey in Game 7 of the 05 Finals. Green's certainly more desirable for a last second offensive play but defensively, Id always take Bowen.

The intangibles Bowen brought to the table are beyond the stat sheet, traditional or otherwise. And honestly, theyre beyond Green. DG's a great great player in his own right and he deserves a place in the comversation. Hes certainly better offe sively. But Id trade 2003 Bowen for him without question. Just my two cents.

People choosing brucie but unable to back it up with stats. But he delivered for us when it mattered! :cry

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Originally Posted by 100%duncan

People choosing brucie but unable to back it up with stats. But he delivered for us when it mattered! :cry

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It's not always about stats.

Bowen had a great 5 year stretch for the Spurs in which they won 3 titles and was the primary perimeter defender during those years. When his role was diminished, or done, the Spurs floundered in the playoffs until the emergence of Kawhi. Those are all the stats you need.

.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

It's not always about stats.

Bowen had a great 5 year stretch for the Spurs in which they won 3 titles and was the primary perimeter defender during those years. When his role was diminished, or done, the Spurs floundered in the playoffs until the emergence of Kawhi. Those are all the stats you need.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

It's not always about stats.

Duncan had a great 5 year stretch for the Spurs in which they won 3 titles and was the primary defender during those years. When his role was diminished, or done, the Spurs floundered in the playoffs until the emergence of Kawhi. Those are all the stats you need.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

It's not always about stats.

Bowen had a great 5 year stretch for the Spurs in which they won 3 titles and was the primary perimeter defender during those years. When his role was diminished, or done, the Spurs floundered in the playoffs until the emergence of Kawhi. Those are all the stats you need.

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Manu and tony got old too and we started RJ. Kawhi replaced the tony and manu equivalent and green replaced the bowen equivalent hence the thread.

Bowen's impact is tough to quantify, because of the way the Spurs utilized him, and due to the style of play of the team..if you're looking strictly at offensive metrics, both individual and team impact, Bowen is seen as a very poor offensive player and Danny Green looks like Michael Jordan in comparison of the numbers:lol..

I'm not sure if there's a precedent for Bowen in regards to numbers vs. impact, especially on the perimeter..even looking at some of Bowen's contemporaries from the era(like Battier, for instance), their offensive metrics aren't similar..

Realistically, in 10 years, Bowen will probably be dismissed by most fans that didn't watch him play, unfortunately..all offensive on/off metrics have him as a liability, and that's not even considering individual numbers, too(which are partly skewed due to his role, but credit to Pop for utilizing him perfectly)..

Bowen is almost a gimmick player. Outstanding athlete, dirty, effective, but also totally a systems player on both sides of the ball. Danny was an elite defensive player in a much more complex offense and defense.

Bruce just had to press and trust Duncan.

Did Bowen ever get major $$$$ interest during free agency? Green did. He turned it down. Only a few nba teams can afford to start Bowen.nearly every team with a decent point guard can use green effectively

Green is so crafty to play defense without fouling and using length. Give me Verde in any era. Bowen had a nice career-5 years as a starter. Green could be a starting two for 7-10 years. It's won't even be close then.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

It's not always about stats.

Bowen had a great 5 year stretch for the Spurs in which they won 3 titles and was the primary perimeter defender during those years. When his role was diminished, or done, the Spurs floundered in the playoffs until the emergence of Kawhi. Those are all the stats you need.

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Agree. You had to be there.

Also, Green is a limited offensive player who relies on shooting open 3's just like Bowen. He takes more, but Bowen was consistent and always shot over 40% 3pt in playoffs and made the shots he needed to.

But the main point is that when Bowen declined defensively the Spurs stopped winning, even though they had the same team.

What Green did in 2013 bruce could never come close to that.

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Originally Posted by barbacoataco

Agree. You had to be there.

Also, Green is a limited offensive player who relies on shooting open 3's just like Bowen. He takes more, but Bowen was consistent and always shot over 40% 3pt in playoffs and made the shots he needed to.

But the main point is that when Bowen declined defensively the Spurs stopped winning, even though they had the same team.

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We didn't start winning with green either? Hence the thread.

Also, Bowen could defend quick players like Kobe, and big physical players like Zach Randolph. It's true he struggled against Dirk, but no one could really defend him.

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Originally Posted by barbacoataco

Also, Bowen could defend quick players like Kobe, and big physical players like Zach Randolph. It's true he struggled against Dirk, but no one could really defend him.

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Green can't defend quick players? Am I missing something in this thread?

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Originally Posted by dabom

Manu and tony got old too and we started RJ. Kawhi replaced the tony and manu equivalent and green replaced the bowen equivalent hence the thread.

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Kawhi didn't replace Tony and Manu, and Green didn't replace Bowen. Manu and Tony were both effective after '08 and before Kawhi's emergence. Where are the championship appearances during that stretch? Kawhi replaced what Bowen brought to the Spurs. It would be more fitting for you to say DG has replaced some of what Manu and Tony used to bring.

No Bowen, no championships in '03, '05 and '07. No Kawhi, no championship in '14. Danny is a good defender...not on Bruce's level. Who was the Lebron stopper in '07? In '14? You're comparing the wrong two players.

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Originally Posted by barbacoataco

Also, Bowen could defend quick players like Kobe, and big physical players like Zach Randolph. It's true he struggled against Dirk, but no one could really defend him.

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Jack shut Dirk down the very next year. Seriously, people need to quit this idea that Bowen was a good Dirk or Nash option. He may have been the best the Spurs had, but he wasn't a good one.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Kawhi didn't replace Tony and Manu, and Green didn't replace Bowen. Manu and Tony were both effective after '08 and before Kawhi's emergence. Where are the championship appearances during that stretch? Kawhi replaced what Bowen brought to the Spurs. It would be more fitting for you to say DG has replaced some of what Manu and Tony used to bring.

No Bowen, no championships in '03, '05 and '07. No Kawhi, no championship in '14. Danny is a good defender...not on Bruce's level. Who was the Lebron stopper in '07? In '14? You're comparing the wrong two players.

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The team stopped Lebron in 07. Do all the folks who claim you have to have seen Bowen live to understand him really not remember those Finals at all?

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Kawhi didn't replace Tony and Manu, and Green didn't replace Bowen. Manu and Tony were both effective after '08 and before Kawhi's emergence. Where are the championship appearances during that stretch? Kawhi replaced what Bowen brought to the Spurs. It would be more fitting for you to say DG has replaced some of what Manu and Tony used to bring.

No Bowen, no championships in '03, '05 and '07. No Kawhi, no championship in '14. Danny is a good defender...not on Bruce's level. Who was the Lebron stopper in '07? In '14? You're comparing the wrong two players.

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I was talking about importance not actually what they do. Bruce is a role player. Green is a role player. Kawhi is a star. Manu and Tony are stars. You're the one comparing the wrong players.

No kawhi no timmyno manu no tiago no a lot of players. A cop out statement. Doesn't describe which provided the most tbh.

Good thread by the OP surprisingly.

Anyway I would personally go with Green for pretty much the same reason as op. Please stick to threads like this op, much better than your overdone Parker bashing.
:bobo

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Originally Posted by Chinook

The team stopped Lebron in 07. Do all the folks who claim you have to have seen Bowen live to understand him really not remember those Finals at all?

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You could say the same thing about '14. Bowen was integral to stopping Lebron. His rep as a dirty player probably cost Bruce multiple DPOY awards. Just because he didn't fill up a stat sheet people forget what he brought to the team. He instilled fear in our opponents, he got into the heads of the other team's best shooters. On top of his defense he was a 40% 3-point shooter. He was as important as the Big 3 during the '03 to '07 run.

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Originally Posted by dabom

I was talking about importance not actually what they do. Bruce is a role player. Green is a role player. Kawhi is a star. Manu and Tony are stars. You're the one comparing the wrong players.

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I saw Bruce outplay an in-his-prime Kobe Bryant in the playoffs. Bowen's accomplishments were overshadowed sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

You could say the same thing about '14. Bowen was integral to stopping Lebron. His rep as a dirty player probably cost Bruce multiple DPOY awards. Just because he didn't fill up a stat sheet people forget what he brought to the team. He instilled fear in our opponents, he got into the heads of the other team's best shooters. On top of his defense he was a 40% 3-point shooter. He was as important as the Big 3 during the '03 to '07 run.

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Really? Thats ridiculous. Don't get me wrong Bruce was an important piece in us winning those titles. But to say he was as important as the big 3 during that run is insane. No Duncan and those teams were probably not even making the playoffs. Especially the 03 team.

Bruce got to play with a prime big 3 not really fair to compare.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Dude couldn't even shut down Nash.

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What?!? GTFOOH. :lol He gave Nash nightmares.

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Originally Posted by ElKingslayer2

Really? Thats ridiculous. Don't get me wrong Bruce was an important piece in us winning those titles. But to say he was as important as the big 3 during that run is insane. No Duncan and those teams were probably not even making the playoffs. Especially the 03 team.

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People forget the importance of having an elite perimeter defender in the playoffs. There's a reason why the Spurs didn't do much in the playoffs after Bruce left and before Kawhi emerged. That role becomes supremely important in the post season. The Spurs were also-rans in the post season from '09-'12, and it's no coincidence that Bruce not being there was a factor in that. The Big 3 was there during that span. The missing piece was Bowen.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

People forget the importance of having an elite perimeter defender in the playoffs. There's a reason why the Spurs didn't do much in the playoffs after Bruce left and before Kawhi emerged. That role becomes supremely important in the post season. The Spurs were also-rans in the post season from '09-'12, and it's no coincidence that Bruce not being there was a factor in that. The Big 3 was there during that span. The missing piece was Bowen.

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The missing piece was a serviceable 2 not richard fucking jefferson. Dude missed 2 fucking free throws when he played for the warriors. Sums up his basketball career with the spurs. I take that as RJ being trash that we couldn't do anything rather than Bruce was some godly basketball player.

:lol Bruce would "instill fear" into the opponents, yeah no. Kobe, Nash, Dirk, TMac, VC, Ray Allen, all used to destroy him. Especially Kobe and Dirk.

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Originally Posted by Floyd Pacquiao

:lol Bruce would "instill fear" into the opponents, yeah no. Kobe, Nash, Dirk, TMac, VC, Ray Allen, all used to destroy him. Especially Kobe and Dirk.

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"instill fear" "killer instinct"

:lol

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Originally Posted by Floyd Pacquiao

:lol Bruce would "instill fear" into the opponents, yeah no. Kobe, Nash, Dirk, TMac, VC, Ray Allen, all used to destroy him. Especially Kobe and Dirk.

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Lol at the thought of Danny attempting to guard Dirk for a whole game, much less a whole series.

Any of those guys in their prime could destroy any defender one on one on any given night. Thats hardly evidence for Danny > Bruce.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

"instill fear" "killer instinct"

:lol

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"Gritty" Hard Nosed" "Tenacious"

:lol

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

It's not always about stats.

Bowen had a great 5 year stretch for the Spurs in which they won 3 titles and was the primary perimeter defender during those years. When his role was diminished, or done, the Spurs floundered in the playoffs until the emergence of Kawhi. Those are all the stats you need.

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+1

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Lol at the thought of Danny attempting to guard Dirk for a whole game, much less a whole series.

Any of those guys in their prime could destroy any defender one on one on any given night. Thats hardly evidence for Danny > Bruce.

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Yeah I wouldn't want Danny guarding Dirk, that's retarded. I also think its retarded when people actually think bruce could guard Dirk cause he couldn't. He got his ass kicked on the reg.

http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/0605/n...witzki_268.jpg http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/10/15/50.../3/960x540.jpghttp://blogs.discovermagazine.com/co...BlocksDirk.jpg

One pic. What about it?

Hands down, Bowen (see what I did there?)

Seems as if most of the Bowen haters started watching the Spurs after 2007. Green has shown flashes but nothing consistently. Yes, Bowen played in more of a one on one era than it is now, and it is true the folks he guarded did have big games, but save for those crazy series against the Suns I don't recall teams routinely cracking 90 against the Spurs. It's almost as if those guys took it upon themselves to demolish Bruce and thus took most of the shot clock to score. And at considerable physical effort.

Lol that the team stopped Lebron in '07. That was pretty much Bowen, and mainly because Lebron couldn't shoot jumpers, the Cavs had no offense besides giving him the ball and standing around, and Bowen executed the game plan perfectly of making him shoot Js.

To watch Bowen at his best was to see a guy know exactly where his opponent wanted to go and derail him. He was always a step ahead and knew to take away the opponent's favorite move. And he was never standing still waiting for the guy to make a move first. He made their lives miserable because of how he pestered them even when just standing around.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/0605/n...witzki_268.jpg http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/10/15/50.../3/960x540.jpghttp://blogs.discovermagazine.com/co...BlocksDirk.jpg

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Neat pic of a block. Now post their series stats where Dirk averaged 30 and 10 on 50% shooting

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Originally Posted by dabom

One pic. What about it?

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It's fucking awesome. Thats all.

http://www.playmakeronline.com/wp-co...als-Game-6.jpg

"Mooooooooom! They're picking on me! Errrrrrrrrik! Do something!"

Cool.

Look guise! Bruce shutting down lebron in the finals! :lolYeah no, lebron was blowing by him easily. Duncan cleaned up his mess beautifully.
Vid-----> https://youtu.be/qkYl1eKTfZs

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Originally Posted by Floyd Pacquiao

Yeah I wouldn't want Danny guarding Dirk, that's retarded. I also think its retarded when people actually think bruce could guard Dirk cause he couldn't. He got his ass kicked on the reg.

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The only way to stop prime Dirk was a double team. Bowen's goal wasnt to stop him. He was just trying to deny him position and make him work for his shots without calling for help. In the end, that strategy almost paid off. Fast forward to 2014, in the not too common occurrence Danny got switched onto Dirk, hello doubleteam. Bowen just had more presence on the defensive end of the court. Of course, Im sure theres certain matchups, especially with fast PGs that Danny would probably be better suited for.