Spurs ballhandler/playmakin ranking. nonbiased opinions only please.

Not including scoring capability, defense or even shooting. Pure playmaking ranking.

Ballhandling is included of course cause scrubs need to be able to dribble the ball upcourt without giving it up. Low turnover ratio matters.

As of RIGHT NOW:
1. Tony Parker - fast, best ballhandler under pressure, very few TOs but not as good passing last season, gets flustered and loses it. He's still the engine of the team.
2. Ginobili - slow, good handles, great passing but high TO ratio and can't play large minutes
3. Kyle Anderson - tall, slow, decent handles and ball protection. We are banking on him
4. Diaw - xxl, slow as fuck, best passer in the team, smartest player in the team
5. The new scrub from Sacto - ?
6. Mills - really a midget SG not a PG

Lots of question marks and this could easily be our weakest area or strongest. Depending on how scrubs develop

Pure playmaking ranking?

Diaw
Ginobili
Parker
McCallum
Aldridge
Simmons <-- can slash and dish out
Anderson
Duncan
Leonard
West
Mills <---- can only make a play for himself.
Marjanovic
Green <-- broken play everytime he dribbles ball.
Bonner

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Pure playmaking ranking?

Diaw
Ginobili
Parker
McCallum
Aldridge
Simmons
Anderson
Duncan
Leonard
West
Mills
Marjanovic
Green
Bonner

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Well I actually meant playmaking for others and being able to dribble upcourt. Basically RUNNING THE POINT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hater

Well I actually meant playmaking for others and being able to dribble upcourt. Basically RUNNING THE POINT.

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That's not how the Spurs play with Mills. Mills dribbles up the court, but Ginobili or Diaw creates the play.

Even is Summer League, a guard brings the ball up the court only to give the ball to Anderson to figure out what to do.

For Spurs, bringing up the ball doesn't mean setting up the play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Pure playmaking ranking?

Diaw
Ginobili
Parker
McCallum
Aldridge
Simmons <-- can slash and dish out
Anderson
Duncan
Leonard
West
Mills <---- can only make a play for himself.
Marjanovic
Green <-- broken play everytime he dribbles ball.
Bonner

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Duncan is a better playmaker than Aldridge.

Diaw
Manu
Parker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T_L_P

Duncan is a better playmaker than Aldridge.

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Yeah, you are probably right here. Probably Aldridge and Duncan ranking should be switched.

Should look like this then:


Diaw
Ginobili <-- took minimum
Parker
McCallum
Duncan <-- took a discount
Simmons <-- can slash and dish out
Anderson
Aldridge <- max player
Leonard <- max player
West
Mills <---- can only make a play for himself.
Marjanovic
Green <-- broken play everytime he dribbles ball.
Bonner

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

That's not how the Spurs play with Mills. Mills dribbles up the court, but Ginobili or Diaw creates the play.

Even is Summer League, a guard brings the ball up the court only to give the ball to Anderson to figure out what to do.

For Spurs, bringing up the ball doesn't mean setting up the play.

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Not under pressure. Mills can't dribble vs pressure IMO. He just runs to the corner 3 usually and Diaw /Parker or Manu handle it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Yeah, you are probably right here. Probably Aldridge and Duncan ranking should be switched.

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I think Duncan's playmaking gets a little overlooked these days because the only real opportunity he has to do it is when he's in the high post and the scoring wing cuts to the basket (generally speaking).

When Duncan and Marco were on the court together, we got to see a lot of Tim's great passing abilities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hater

Not under pressure. Mills can't dribble vs pressure IMO. He just runs to the corner 3 usually and Diaw /Parker or Manu handle it

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I don't know what you mean here. Mills dribbles the ballup even with pressure, but he always hands it off on a half court set.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T_L_P

I think Duncan's playmaking gets a little overlooked these days because the only real opportunity he has to do it is when he's in the high post and the scoring wing cuts to the basket (generally speaking).

When Duncan and Marco were on the court together, we got to see a lot of Tim's great passing abilities.

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I agree, excellent passer. Can't dribble though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

I agree, excellent passer. Can't dribble though.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEuu3NmF400

:lol

Manu
Diaw
TP
TD
KL
LMA
Summer League MVP
Patty

The rest of the team should never dribble drive (at least to start the season) unless it is dire circumstances or a wide open lay in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Manu
Diaw
TP
TD
KL
LMA
Summer League MVP
Patty

The rest of the team should never dribble drive (at least to start the season) unless it is dire circumstances or a wide open lay in.

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okay, let's assume that the player *must* dribble to make the play.

Diaw
Ginobili <-- took minimum
Parker
McCallum
Simmons <-- can slash and dish out
Anderson
Mills <---- can only make a play for himself.

Everyone else who dribbles, means it is either a post-up or a bad play. Spurs should only post-up unless it is a mis-match, which would mean that someone else recognized this and passed the ball to the post-up player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Manu
Diaw
TP
TD
KL
LMA
Summer League MVP
Patty

The rest of the team should never dribble drive (at least to start the season) unless it is dire circumstances or a wide open lay in.

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I'm pretty sure they'll let McCallum. Again, he flies under the radar. Doesn't make the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

I don't know what you mean here. Mills dribbles the ballup even with pressure, but he always hands it off on a half court set.

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Sure even Duncan and Kawhi do it at certain times but its not optimal IMO. Not by design.

Usually player runnng the point likes to dribble it and assess the field beforehand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

okay, let's assume that the player *must* dribble to make the play.

Diaw
Ginobili <-- took minimum
Parker
McCallum
Simmons <-- can slash and dish out
Anderson
Mills <---- can only make a play for himself.

Everyone else who dribbles, means it is either a post-up or a bad play. Spurs should only post-up unless it is a mis-match, which would mean that someone else recognized this and passed the ball to the post-up player.

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When has Mills made a play for himself?? He is a great cold blooded shooter but seldom can take anyone off the dribble and shoot it over them or penetrate imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hater

Sure even Duncan and Kawhi do it at certain times but its not optimal IMO. Not by design.

Usually player runnng the point likes to dribble it and assess the field beforehand.

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No, it is by design that Patty takes the ball from the in bounds and dribbles it to the half-court. That is his job. It is by design, not by accident.

His job is to give the ball to Manu to setup the play.

If however , he keeps the ball to himself, asks for a screen and chucks away at a 3 point shot. Then yes, that's a play called by him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hater

When has Mills made a play for himself?? He is a great cold blooded shooter but seldom can take anyone off the dribble and shoot it over them or penetrate imo

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What are you talking about? Mills calls a play for himself when he gets a screen and fires away when he sees daylight. Go watch the videos, he does this almost every game!

1. Manu (when he is not in Turnobli mode)
2. Parker
3. Diaw
4. Anderson (he showed some flashes in the games he played last year with his passes)
5. Mills (he really improved in this department last year)
6. McCallum

I am not going to rate anyone else because no else is going to bring the ball up the court too much. Maybe Kawhi on the break, but that is about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

I'm pretty sure they'll let McCallum. Again, he flies under the radar. Doesn't make the list.

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I know very little about the dude. I doubt he'll see any real meaningful minutes . . . to start the season. Which is why I added that caveat in. :angel

Manu
Diaw
TP
Anderson

The rest

Although TP is a better ballhandler than Manu,but Manu is a better passer...if that makes sense

I'm not sure about McCallum,haven't watched him enough

now we add Jimmer Fredette!!!

(1) Manu ------ best passer

(2) Tony ------- best ballhandler

(3) Diaw --------best passing big

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tatteredprince

(1) Manu ------ best passer

(2) Tony ------- best ballhandler

(3) Diaw --------best passing big

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This basically

Quote:

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Originally Posted by From Downtown

This basically

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thanks man!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by z0sa

I know very little about the dude. I doubt he'll see any real meaningful minutes . . . to start the season. Which is why I added that caveat in. :angel

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Thus the flyin under the radar comment. He definitely isn't on your radar. I think he'll play, and soon. He's not a D-league call up. But, of course, this is just my humble opinion. Time may tell.

Manu
Diaw
TP

And we don't really have anybody else right now. We'll see how McCallum looks.

Well,as I said I don't know much about McCallum as I don't watch the Kings regularly,but when asked about him RC said he's an improvement over CoJo when it comes to running a team,so he has to be at least decent as a ballhandler/playmaker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tatteredprince

(1) Manu ------ best passer

(2) Tony ------- best ballhandler

(3) Diaw --------best passing big

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I'd go with this.

A couple years ago I could see putting Manu 1st, but last year he just made do many turnovers.

In just ball handling, I'd say Parker. He never gets trapped of has to pock up the ball.

Playmaking, the Spurs offense is all about motion and multiple passes. Diaw would be towards the top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Manu
Diaw
TP

And we don't really have anybody else right now. We'll see how McCallum looks.

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This.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Manu

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old as dirt. can't play major minutes

Quote:

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Diaw

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niche ballhandler

Quote:

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TP

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looked like shit last season

Quote:

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And we don't really have anybody else right now. We'll see how McCallum looks.

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you damn wrong. we need someone else here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Yeah, you are probably right here. Probably Aldridge and Duncan ranking should be switched.

Should look like this then:


Diaw
Ginobili <-- took minimum
Parker
McCallum
Duncan <-- took a discount
Simmons <-- can slash and dish out
Anderson
Aldridge <- max player
Leonard <- max player
West
Mills <---- can only make a play for himself.
Marjanovic
Green <-- broken play everytime he dribbles ball.
Bonner

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I like your rankings, but I have to note, I have not watched Ray Ray, so I have to take your word for it. Truthfully, I will enjoy watching his play this season, to me he's an unknown new guy. I do like that RC said he's ahead in PG development than CoJo was at that same stage. I would be higher on Anderson than Simmons simply bc Simmons is unproven. Anderson did play some NBA minutes last season and while he did not shoot or defend well, two things he did do well were rebound and pass. He had the highest AS to TO ratio of anyone on the team last year (limited minutes but still impressive). He averaged almost 1 assist per game in 8 mins. per game, and that is impressive for a guy who was just an afterthought in the offense last season and had no chemistry with guys. He just played really smart passing the ball at an NBA level and I can't dismiss that ahead of Simmons who still hasn't shown me the same. Simmons AS to TO ratio also concerned me. He was poor in the D'league in that front, but seems to be improving.
Mills I think had some limited pick and roll with Tiago, and will find an open guy, but he is a gunner and no one would mistake him for a passer. Other than these observations I agree on everything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tatteredprince

(1) Manu ------ best passer

(2) Tony ------- best ballhandler

(3) Diaw --------best passing big

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Spot on. :toast