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Great. He wasn't a total stiff out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriel
Right fucking on
Staaaaacked
Good move. He had some good moments in summer league.
It's happening!
Very glad. Think he has some potential, and having a legit seven-footer in Austin may allow Cady to play more PF.
He'll push Lalanne in practice (literally).
Jimmer and Ndoye finna take Austin to the da ship
Good move by Spurs FO. He deserves a chance to develop in our system and could be useful in the future.
Next Nazr Mohammed :lobt2:
Yeah! A legitimate big dude.... pretty raw but has good length.
I think Lalanne still needs to resolve out his illegal immigration status. Shouldn't be a problem since he should be covered by Obama's Dream Act.
Solid. Legit 7-footer could use some coaching up but should develop a bit in Austin.
Name: Youssou Ndoye
Height: 7'0
Weight: 255 lbs
Wingspan: 7'4
http://youtu.be/tNMPzT6W8iQ
Stacked
Stashing dudes away that would start on the Lakers tbh.
Nice move. Should be fun to watch him learn in Austin. :tu
Already 24 years old, not much development left to be had here.
Spurs Program => Player development the right way.
Hassan Whiteside says hello.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic
Baynes was 26 when he first came to the Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic
Also late bloomers have an advantage of low mileage...
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
The game now is more complex that has ever been. It takes at least 4 years after high school and 2 years in the pros for a lot of players to figure it out. Simmons is a rookie and he's already 25 years old. Spurs are doing the right thing by almost always stashing 1st round picks in Europe. Most first rounders aren't worth the rookie salary scale. It's like paying for someone millions for 2-4 years just so that they can figure out how to play. Absolutely a waste of money!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic
Take Cory Joseph as an example, barely every played in the playoffs, but after playing for Spurs for 3 years all the investment goes to another team that acquired him.
Plus if he hasn't played much at 24 = low impact, can still have a long career with the proper development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
at least, but probably quite a bit moreQuote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
:tu
Hope the kid pans out. Spurs will be in the market for another end of the bench center next season.
Disagree. You want to get your franchise players young, but if the Spurs get even 2 useful seasons out of Ndoye as a 4th or 5th big, that's a great return on a D-League contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic
if he plays with movement, aggressivity, shot blocking, soft touch mid ranger, finisher for the Spurs like he does in those college, euro highlights, he's much more than Austin filler.
Less true for guys like him that start playing organized basketball later in life, perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic
Good to see Spurs accumulating projects for the center position. These guys are expensive when they become serviceable, just look at how much they paid Baynes.
Better for Spurs to be building up a pipeline rather than paying premium in the open market.
The guys in the pipeline:
Marjanovic (already in the team)
Multinov (21 years old, but stashed in Europe)
Ndoye (24 playing in the D-league)
Lalanne (more of a PF in size but with 7'5" wingspan, 2nd round draft likely to be stashed somewhere)
Anyone else in the list ?
He looked good as the SL progressed.
Big fella with some upside. Under our / Austin development guys he can get better.
No risk deal.
I highly doubt that Jimmer plays for Austin. He'll either be in SA or Europe, where he can make much more than dleague money.Quote:
Originally Posted by jag
Very ignorant commentQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic
This. If you're signing undrafted guys for the D League, they don't have to project as franchise players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventyniner
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
Spurs have so much depth at PF/C that inviting quality bigmen to training camp seems unnecessary. Using these spots on future Toros players is a smart move and Ndoye looks like a fine signing for a D-League player/prospect.
If Spurs can create a development pipeline where Toro players come into the NBA prepared then it a major advantage. There are three players that have come out of that pipeline that I know of, Bryce Cotton, Jamychal Green and Jonathon Simmons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
If I'm not mistaken, not a single player coming from Austin has had some kind of NBA impact since Spurs brought them 8 years ago. If Simmons do well with Spurs, he will be the first one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
As it stands, D-League can't be a place to develop future NBA players. Salaries are just too low for that.
Holy shit, that nigga is big.
Kind of depends on what one means by impact, but I do agree about the salaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I means a player being a rotation NBA player (10-15mpg) for at least a couple of years. I'm not including players that are send to Austin while being under contract with Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
I don't remember a player fitting that description.
He's very raw. Austin will probably work for him.
How about Danny Green?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Alonzo Gee and Lance Thomas come to mind, but the exceptions prove the rule. It's still like AA baseball for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
True. The D-league program hasn't been delivering dividends for the Spurs in the past. Hope that's changed with Simmons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I think the point was that nobody developed by the Austin Toros has provided any real value to an NBA team.Quote:
Originally Posted by milkyway21
Danny Green was assigned to the Toros but I think he was already under Spurs contract. Same as other Spurs like CoJo, Baynes and Anderson.
The record of the Austin Toros for developing talent has been pretty pathetic. Simmons is probably the most successful and we haven't even seen him play in the NBA.
You're right, I forget about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Obligatory Ryan Richards comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
If you really want to get technical we also have the rights to Robertas Javtokas and Georgios Printezis (although hes more of a 4). Oh yea, and technically Erazem Lorbek too.
With the new TV money coming to the league after next season, they definitely need to increase salaries in the D League. They should at minimum be paid $65k to $150k depending on skill and experience level. This will help keep many young players from having to bet on an overseas deal that may or may not work out for them. Honestly, I think it's a shame the league doesn't support this league to the same extent as WNBA, which is totally unwatchable and has been a perennial money loser for the NBA. The WNBA would never survive if it had to stand up on it's own. I truly believe that the d league could potentially thrive if they were able to attract better talent on a yearly basis. Increased salaries would be a good step in that direction to retain better talent.
I'd rather see a system where team can assign 2-3 spots exclusively for d-league prospects. They'd be one-year tenders at half the rookie minimum. A team could only designate a player twice, and the second year, the tender is half of the second-year vet min. The rights to those players are tradeable, but those guys are protected from being called up by other teams.
$250k or so is pretty competitive with starting salaries on most overseas clubs, I think. And it would allow teams to get a look at guys without much fear of them being poached. I would still support raising regular d-league salaries, but only to about $45k or so. That's good enough to have a decent living and wouldn't increase the d-league budget as much as raising the salaries to $150 would.
Players union has every incentive to keep player salaries high. Your proposal will allow teams to 'handcuff' young players to $250k salaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
This would then be a disincentive to picking up a first round draft pick since you can pay like 4-8 salaries for the price of one first round pick. It is already obvious to many in the league that the typical 20 year old rookie isn't mature enough to play in the league. Anyone footing the bill to develop the player on a rookie salary is praying that they become serviceable before they have to unload them into free agency.
Look at OKC, they had to dump their projects (i.e. lamb and jones) with nothing really to show for developing them.
probably quite a bit less.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Not really. Those players don't count toward the team's active roster. So it's just paying d-leaguers and potential expats competitive salaries. The trade off is exclusivity, but that's true if they take that money in Europe anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
Doesn't make a ton of sense. Teams aren't dumping their picks left and right to take on rookie-min guys as it is. Plus, those guys couldn't be called up to their active roster, so it's not like it's saving them a ton of money.Quote:
This would then be a disincentive to picking up a first round draft pick since you can pay like 4-8 salaries for the price of one first round pick.
A team has four years to develop their first-rounders. It shouldn't be hard to get something out of them. The Spurs seem to be able to do find with their guys. But my proposal doesn't affect them much anyway. We're talking about true d-leaguers here. I guess this benefits teams like the Spurs who own their affiliates. The Spurs would be able to have a starting lineup of exclusive players in a system they completely control. It would be great for developing chemistry as well as having a more competitive league.Quote:
Anyone footing the bill to develop the player on a rookie salary is praying that they become serviceable before they have to unload them into free agency.
We'll probably have to wait for complete one-to-one affiliation before any real reform can take place. There are still like ten NBA teams that will be affiliated with Fort Wayne next season.
Question is if the d-league can take more expansion. It's hard to see that happening without them raising the salaries (since they need to draw a bigger talent pool). But it's even harder to see the d-league with higher salaries AND more teams/players. The League and Players should really take this influx of money and use it to improve their infrastructure. But they won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
If they really want it to be a "development" league, NBA teams should pay D-league teams some percentage over any player that signs an NBA contract. This gives D-league teams some ownership of the development of their players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
It is kind of disconcerting watching D-league when players keep coming and going from a team.
It makes more sense for teams to just own their own affiliates like the Spurs own the Toros. The Toros have every incentive to develop their guys exactly as the Spurs want them to.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
Ndoye doesn't move like a guy that height. He's got really quick feet, and he's a difference-maker when he's playing with some speed. He didn't really make an impression until the last few games. I think the big question is going to be his motor. I haven't seen him play prior to summer league, but I imagine he'd have attracted more attention if he played with that effort all the time.
Well his feet are flying all over the place, not typical of a big man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I just think he has to build some strength on those legs, the guys is just toppling over all the time!
I don't think the NBA is overly concerned about the level of play right now, which is good and bad. My perception is that NBA teams that haven't bought in with a single affiliate or ownership don't see it as worth the bother from either a business or developmental standpoint. That will change over time because there are now so many examples of how to make each work. A one-to-one system could work out pretty well if every team sends three training camp cuts to their affiliates every year. Keeping them is of course a challenge, but at that point the NBA can decide what to do with salaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
I guess you and I are seeing different things, because it sounds like you're implying he's weak or clumsy. He jumps sideways rather than up and down because he doesn't need to elevate due to his length. The tactic works as he can cover a lot of ground and make plays, either blocks or rebounds or putbacks. Most guys that size can't throw their bodies around like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
A team is going to have to have consistent success developing players before the other teams buy in to the concept.
I just think it's a catch-22. Because teams may not really see the benefit of having d-league guys develop on their dimes because the best young prospects not in the NBA often go overseas for high salaries (and the prospects who were already over there won't come over). Unless the d-league finds a way to get a better talent pool, I don't see what could improve the quality enough to get a 1:1 system to become a reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Exactly, and with the salaries, the best prospects aren't going to want to be part of that. So the d-league has to try to turn crap into gold while all the gold ore is sitting in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Do minor league baseball players make a lot of money? That system seems to work even though there are probably other leagues for guys to play. At some point maybe the fix would be for the league to stop paying buyouts for Euro players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Good insurence if Boban injury is serious, might even be better than Boban...
I don't think you can compare baseball to basketball in terms of minor-league systems and international leagues. The MLB has almost no serious alternatives. And they have an already-entrenched system that has good results. So players know they can choose to go that route and get a decent chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I don't think taking away buyouts is a good answer. If anything, it would make more sense to double down and actually contract prospects to mid-level European teams. That way, they have an incentive to develop players for the NBA (since there'd be decent money to be made coaching NBA guys up if they're good at it) while also having an incentive to win (since they are independent teams with bottom lines to worry about).
That's not a bad idea. There's going to be some outside the box solution rather than just jacking up salaries for prospects. If only they could use all that WNBA money they've been wasting all these years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
That WNBA money helped produce Becky, so it's not a complete waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I still love the idea of the Spurs owning their own franchise in Spain. Especially a decent club that plays the Euroleague regularly. Just stash players on the Madrid Spurs!
Actually the main value for NBA franchises is to develop a teams own existing players, not free agents. If a team like Atlanta is inclined to do that, the nightmare that is the Fort Wayne affiliate system is not going to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Well, we kind of have something like that with ASVEL, where we stashed LJC. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Darkwaters
You are right. I don't watch a lot of college basketball, but I saw him play a couple games, so I checked out what I could on youtube, as well, when I saw he was going to be on our summer league team. I was excited to see him, and posted a message in the summer league thread about him before summer league to crickets response. He is very agile for a guy his size that goes undrafted. He, at times, is really impressive, for a nobody. I don't think he'll remain a nobody. He is, of course raw. Based on his bio, I seriously doubt he was playing organized basketball at a young age. Tim was a late bloomer when it comes to basketball, but not everyone is Tim Duncan. Ndoye seems like the very kind of guy that it's worth taking a gamble on because he could really benefit from some more coaching and development. He's got some nice physical tools. As glad as I was to see him on the summer league roster, even more happy he got a training camp invite and Austin possibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
All that said, he was almost invisible until the last two games of summer league. Not sure what was going on there. But, I think it was that second to the last game, something clicked.
Yeah, I don't know what it was, but I saw it too. They got down by a bundle to the Hawks, and suddenly he and several other guys just came alive and started making hustle plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin
Last two games in SL, the Spurs were getting blown out due to superior talent, only to be bailed out big time by the second unit on hustle play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Something just clicked with Ndoye and he decided to start hustling his ass off! Maybe it was desperation and realization that the starters couldn't pull it off by themselves so he and the bench took charge! Sometimes you get complacent when you other players are going to deliver the win, but when you're down double digits in the first quarter, you realize that you got to take matters into your own hands. Something definitely clicked.... great coaching by Hammon.
The guy can shoot free throws and it seems like he has a pretty high motor. He's gotta stay out of foul trouble though. In games where he played 10-16 minutes he had 3-4 fouls. Versus Boston he almost fouled out in 14 minutes and against ATL he had 3 fouls and 3 turnovers in 16 minutes. Ndoye will get better though.
He play aggresive and like being the instituter, good prospect...
Decent shot at getting a roster spot in 2-3 years. Seems like a no brainer to give him a chance to develop in Austin.
One big difference is that MLB teams have a number of extra contracts they can carry specifically for minor league players, so you have more guys you can hold onto with less pressure as they develop without taking up your major league slots. It would be interesting as part of a set of reforms (along with increased salary and expanding so every club had a team) if there were, say, 3 more league-minimum salary slots for each NBA team with the understanding that there had to be at least 3 of 18 guys assigned to the D League. It would completely change how second round picks were handled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Obviously this is a completely pie-in-the-sky idea, but it would completely change basketball development, I think for the better.
The amount of MLB readiness the average MLB draftee possesses at the time of his selection is way, way lower than the average NBA draftee's pro readiness. Add to that the fact that pro Central, South American and Japanese leagues are also too high-level for a fresh draftee, baseball minor leagues' proven track record as the main pathway to the MLB and the whole 'going to the ballpark for some family time', and the D-League is light years behind the baseball minors.
If you could draft a guy right out of high school, pay him a development contract, assign him to a team, be able to hold onto his rights for long enough that you're willing to invest the time and money required and then call him up at any time to a bigger contract when he's ready to contribute, it would change how almost everything is handled. Imagine being able to draft a guy with a lottery pick, assign him to the D-league for not a lot of money and see if he turns out to be a team cancer or a future all-star. then actually still have his rights three years later when he develops into a productive player, but he hasn't been eating up a quarter of your cap or a spot on your bench while he was developing.
The NBA could just wreck college basketball by setting up a smart farm system to develop players.
Watched a lot of his vids from what i see he is a pretty decent prospect - He has good hands, moves well for a guy seven feet tall and looks like he can play defense and I love his shot blocking abilities. I am glad they signed him to the Toros I think with the right coaching/motivation he will be called up a couple of times this season. If he can grasp the Spurs defense and offense rotations he can help and do some serious damage on the pick and roll.