Should Simmons start ahead of Green?

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

What does Green's performance this year have to do with what he was worth in past years? That's like saying Aldridge isn't worth anywhere near his money, because of how he's played this season:lol

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This is based off past performances. The reasons I gave were all the reasons shown this year. He can't dribble, can't create his own shot, he just a decent passer. Basically all he has shown he can do is play very good defense and hit the 3 ball when teams collapse on the Spurs players in the post.

If you think a player is worth 10-15 mil with this attributes, that is crazy.

I still think he is only worth 8 mil a year max. And this was before this year's performance. Now that teams are playing him tighter, he is showing just how effective he is offensively. Guys like Klay and Hayward and such can at least hit contested shots and create their own shots.

I still like Green and think he is vital for the Spurs to get pass GS. But I am not one of those people that overvalued his worth or said he was better than Bowen.

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Originally Posted by Mikeanaro

His game is clearly regressing, and his shot has been off like a full year, last December Manu was the one giving his all in a hard schedule DG is just a role player and people should be asking him to do 3&D, because you are incorporating new tricks to the bag it doesnt mean you now suddenly suck at everything you already know.
I was one of the few users here saying DG was not a 10 mil/year player, what most guys dont understand is DG never had big aspirations in BB he was trash in Cleveland, waived and Spurs took him to his limits he had his peak in 14 and now after a championship and getting $ he is not worthy the time to get back to mediocrity has come.
Dude is not mentally or physically prepared to be more than a role player, by the way... you cant just expect uncontested shots just all the time, WTF is that?

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Mikeanaro with the PtR take of the thread tbh.

No

He's been really bad and I'm worried about whether this means anything or not but he needs to start. It's too early to hit the panic button.

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Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs

This is based off past performances. The reasons I gave were all the reasons shown this year. He can't dribble, can't create his own shot, he just a decent passer. Basically all he has shown he can do is play very good defense and hit the 3 ball when teams collapse on the Spurs players in the post.

If you think a player is worth 10-15 mil with this attributes, that is crazy.

I still think he is only worth 8 mil a year max. And this was before this year's performance. Now that teams are playing him tighter, he is showing just how effective he is offensively. Guys like Klay and Hayward and such can at least hit contested shots and create their own shots.

I still like Green and think he is vital for the Spurs to get pass GS. But I am not one of those people that overvalued his worth or said he was better than Bowen.

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Bowen would look the same in today's league where they take away your corner 3s, tbh:lol..he had all the same flaws as Green, offensively, but he was even more exploitable since he was only able to shoot from 2 spots on the court(at a time where teams didn't take away corner 3s, yet)..

Teams aren't playing Green differently..that's just silly, he's been a starter on a perennial contender for 4 years, opposing teams didn't figure out that he can't dribble, all of a sudden..he's not the primary focus of the defense on a team with Aldridge/Kawhi/Parker/Duncan in the same unit..he's literally getting nearly the same number of wide open 3s as he always has, he's just missing them..

Having an atrocious start to the season doesn't change the fact that he had Draymond Green-level impact, last year, according to virtually all metrics..

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Yes, he should go to the bench. You can give Simmons, Butler, Anderson and even McCallum chances to see what they can do. He needs a change of pace. That said, he's dribbling more because Pop wants him to. I imagine he's trying to figure out a way to make Green more of a threat with the ball so teams can't just rest players on him. Against the Warriors, people want Parker to play well so Steph has to work, but Curry will be on Green, so it won't matter what Parker does. Danny's going to have to force Curry to play defense, so sitting in a corner is not really an option.

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Couldn't have said it better :toast

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

lol spurfan groupthink is fun.

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lol talking about spurfan groupthink is fun.

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Originally Posted by hater

lol talking about spurfan groupthink is fun.

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Go make up another political forum lie.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

He shot 42% from 3 last year and was huge last December, actually..

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I just remember him sucking and Manu hurting his 40 year old scrotum to make Spurs win, while Danny was talking few shots and preparing to shine...
1/12 5 points 1/9 , 3pt 1/5 Won
3/12 20 points 7/14 , 3pt 6/11 Lost OT
5/12 16 points 6/10 , 3pt 4/5 Won
6/12 11 points 4/9 , 3pt 1/4 Won
9/12 13 points 6/10 , 3pt 1/5 Lost
10/12 13 points 3/10 , 3pt 1/6 Won
12/12 19 points 7/14, 3pt 5/9 Lost OT
14/12 5 points 2/7 , 3pt 1/4 Won
15/12 12 points 5/11 ,3pt 2/4 Lost
17/12 25 points 9/17 ,3pt 7/13 Lost 3 OT
19/12 27 points 9/21, 3pt 6/9 Lost 3 OT
20/12 DNP Lost
22/12 11 points 3/5 , 3pt 3/5 Won
25/12 12 points 4/13, 3pt 2/8 Lost
26/12 8 points 3/10, 3pt 2/4 Lost
28/12 24 points 6/13, 3pt 3/9 Won
30/12 7 points 3/11, 3pt 1/6 Lost
31/12 7 points 3/13, 3pt 0/8 Won

We lost more than we have won, and DG scored more because at times there was no TP (most of December) some other times there wasnt Kiwi (half December) and some times there werent both, but at the end of the day he is a poor´s man Gay Ray.

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Originally Posted by TheDoctor

Mikeanaro with the PtR take of the thread tbh.

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Why? is he any good now? Danny Groin needs uncontested shots like during workouts, you are a doctor so you know anyone having cats as pets is a retard... and anyone having snakes as pets is an introvert antisocial slow down brainless dummy.

Yes.

At this point - yes. Need to do something to get him going.

Danny's a mystery right now... & it's not only shooting-- his steal and block numbers are down, and his turnovers are up. The problem with him is he has to be paired with a ballhandler, because that's such a glaring weakness of his. So many other teams can rely on their SG to be a primary ballhandler at least some of the time during a game, but the Spurs can't do that with Green. I wonder if anything's going on in his personal life... last year Nick Batum had his worst year as a player & that was attributed to a nasty break up with his girlfriend... but he's had a great bounce back year with Charlotte. Maybe Green is going through something like that. Btw, Batum's a free agent after this season. I've thought of him as a possible Manu replacement because he's a ballhandler/passer (he had a triple double last night), but it'd be hard to make the money work. But the money could work if Green was traded for cheaper parts, like a back up PG or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

At this point - yes. Need to do something to get him going.

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Pretty much..hopefully it works out like it did in 2014 when he got benched for Marco, but his slump was nowhere near as bad as it is right now IIRC..

I don't really see the Simmons fit in the SL unit, though, can't imagine him playing with that unit..it should be Anderson..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Pretty much..hopefully it works out like it did in 2014 when he got benched for Marco, but his slump was nowhere near as bad as it is right now IIRC..

I don't really see the Simmons fit in the SL unit, though, can't imagine him playing with that unit..it should be Anderson..

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That was actually at the same point of the season back in 2013. I already posted a link to an article covering his slump circa 2013. He ended up getting injured in January (fractured metacarpal) then came back in February & finished strong.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

That was actually at the same point of the season back in 2013. I already posted a link to an article covering his slump circa 2013.

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In that case, do you think Pop will just let him work through it or try someone else for a few games?
I personally think Pop will let him work through it some more. Maybe his drives and PnP plays with LMA is him trying to make some kind of impact offensively to put some points on the board from his position and not come out empty.

It hasn't been enough though.

No, just bench him in favor of manu or simmons during key stretches if he can't come through. He can't be forced to distribute like he would off the bench.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

In that case, do you think Pop will just let him work through it or try someone else for a few games?
I personally think Pop will let him work through it some more. Maybe his drives and PnP plays with LMA is him trying to make some kind of impact offensively to put some points on the board from his position and not come out empty.

It hasn't been enough though.

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Marco isn't walking through that door so starting Kyle/Simmons might cause spacing issues. Since it's a new system, Pop might let him try to work it out until the end of this month unless the offense suffers mightily. If the team keeps trucking, he will most likely stay in the lineup despite his struggles.

Pops given him a longer leash than I would have ever expected..... I guess that comes with making real NBA money now though.

yes. I would start anyone on the roster ahead of Green. And why not? He's terrible

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Yes, he should go to the bench. You can give Simmons, Butler, Anderson and even McCallum chances to see what they can do. He needs a change of pace.

That said, he's dribbling more because Pop wants him to. I imagine he's trying to figure out a way to make Green more of a threat with the ball so teams can't just rest players on him. Against the Warriors, people want Parker to play well so Steph has to work, but Curry will be on Green, so it won't matter what Parker does. Danny's going to have to force Curry to play defense, so sitting in a corner is not really an option.

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You're right. What if Green runs through a shit load of screens and makes Steph chase him ala Ray Allen? I don't know how we'll fix this, but making Green dribble is more cancerous to us than having Curry rest imo.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Marco isn't walking through that door so starting Kyle/Simmons might cause spacing issues. Since it's a new system, Pop might let him try to work it out until the end of this month unless the offense suffers mightily. If the team keeps trucking, he will most likely stay in the lineup despite his struggles.

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The key with 3 pt shooting is that the 3 pt shooter has to be able to punish the double team. Danny is not doing that at the moment, but teams are still careful not to double off him and to close him out aggressively if they do. Danny not being able to do much when he gets closed out negates the whole point of the set, since it decreases the efficiency of the post up player passing the ball to him (gets no assist and no shots for himself), expends time on the shot clock, and ends up with a desperation heave by Danny or some other undesirable outcome. Danny's current offensive mess is a whole cancerous situation for the SL.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

The key with 3 pt shooting is that the 3 pt shooter has to be able to punish the double team. Danny is not doing that at the moment, but teams are still careful not to double off him and to close him out aggressively if they do. Danny not being able to do much when he gets closed out negates the whole point of the set, since it decreases the efficiency of the post up player passing the ball to him (gets no assist and no shots for himself), expends time on the shot clock, and ends up with a desperation heave by Danny or some other undesirable outcome. Danny's current offensive mess is a whole cancerous situation for the SL.

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All he has to do is swing the ball on closeouts or step in for a 2 point shot just like Bowen instead of dribble penetrating, just making the defense scramble is a positive.:downspin:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

All he has to do is swing the ball on closeouts or step in for a 2 point shot just like Bowen instead of dribble penetrating, just making the defense scramble is a positive.:downspin:

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People forget Bowen was able to do this. Bowen wasn't the best dribbler either but he had that side step 3/2 pt shot down. That is what Green needs to be working on. That in itself will keep defender from closing out to hard. But he take is all the way in the lane everytime he puts the ball down. That just isn't working for him at this point, probably won't in the future.

Adding to his outside shot selection would best serve Green going forward.