Anyone notice how refs seem to hate D. West?

Before you guys write a whole mythology about West and his fouls, maybe you should consider this:

For his career, West has spent 92% of his time at the PF position. And that's been consistent, year after year.
Playing with the Spurs, he has spent about 67% of his time at the C position. Do you think, maybe, that's put him at a disadvantage and caused some of the fouls? You aren't seeing the refs hate on him. You aren't seeing them call him differently than they did in the past. You're seeing him play a different position, against guys a lot bigger than he is. That is all.

I've read enough people here bitching because he's "under-sized". He's not under-sized. He's a freaking PF, and he didn't sign with the Spurs claiming to be a C. He not only agreed to play for a lot less money, he's been asked to play a different position and battle against giants. And he's worked his ass off doing it, because that's what Pop needs him to do. You may think he's racking up too many fouls, but I promise you Pop isn't surprised by it. If you put a PF out defending C's, he is either going to have to be aggressive or get his ass kicked. And to be that aggressive, he's going to draw a few more whistles.


A couple of other things to keep in mind, before bitching about how bad he is:
He's shooting .541 from the floor.
He's shooting .741 from 0-3 feet... higher than anyone on the team, except Butler. (Butler is shooting layups, West is battling in the post for those shots.)
He's shooting .600 from 10-16 feet! Next highest on the team is Tim at .478 and Kawhi at .446.
Outside of 16 feet, he's shooting .500.
He's rebounding his ass off. His RB stats are behind only Duncan and Aldridge. (I didn't include Boban, because so far it's only garbage minutes for him.)
He gets about the same number of AST per 100 possessions as Tim, who we all know is a great passing big man.

Now... hate away.

No, I don't believe the refs hate D. West. He fouls.

He screams And 1 after every shot. Probably even if he was the only one in the paint.

What do you expect?

I love what we've seen from him so far and he will make play for us in the playoffs. But I do believe so far he's getting a raw deal from the refs.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Before you guys write a whole mythology about West and his fouls, maybe you should consider this:

For his career, West has spent 92% of his time at the PF position. And that's been consistent, year after year.
Playing with the Spurs, he has spent about 67% of his time at the C position. Do you think, maybe, that's put him at a disadvantage and caused some of the fouls? You aren't seeing the refs hate on him. You aren't seeing them call him differently than they did in the past. You're seeing him play a different position, against guys a lot bigger than he is. That is all.

I've read enough people here bitching because he's "under-sized". He's not under-sized. He's a freaking PF, and he didn't sign with the Spurs claiming to be a C. He not only agreed to play for a lot less money, he's been asked to play a different position and battle against giants. And he's worked his ass off doing it, because that's what Pop needs him to do. You may think he's racking up too many fouls, but I promise you Pop isn't surprised by it. If you put a PF out defending C's, he is either going to have to be aggressive or get his ass kicked. And to be that aggressive, he's going to draw a few more whistles.


A couple of other things to keep in mind, before bitching about how bad he is:
He's shooting .541 from the floor.
He's shooting .741 from 0-3 feet... higher than anyone on the team, except Butler. (Butler is shooting layups, West is battling in the post for those shots.)
He's shooting .600 from 10-16 feet! Next highest on the team is Tim at .478 and Kawhi at .446.
Outside of 16 feet, he's shooting .500.
He's rebounding his ass off. His RB stats are behind only Duncan and Aldridge. (I didn't include Boban, because so far it's only garbage minutes for him.)
He gets about the same number of AST per 100 possessions as Tim, who we all know is a great passing big man.

Now... hate away.

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Most of the people responding in here are simply pointing out that he's not being targeted by the refs for something he's not doing or something that's borderline.

And West should probably be starting.

Especially for jump shooter.
That's the only way the refs keep the game under control. If they didn't slow the spurs somehow we would win by 60-70 pts every game.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Most of the people responding in here are simply pointing out that he's not being targeted by the refs for something he's not doing or something that's borderline.

And West should probably be starting.

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I understand. Many commented that they think he really is committing those fouls. (He is.) I thought it made sense to mention WHY he's committing more fouls.

The Spurs don't really have a backup C. If the articles were true, part of Aldridge's conditions for coming here was that he didn't want to play the C. Boban has a lot of good points, but he isn't ready to be a first-off-the-bench center. Bonner? I seriously hope nobody believes that he should be checking in for Tim. That leaves West as the next biggest guy, with Diaw after that. And that, right there, is potentially the Achilles heel of this roster.

West is a PF, plain and simple. That's the reason I posted the breakdown of his playing time, over his career. He's spent 92% at the PF spot, and when he wasn't, it was only out of necessity. He's playing a spot that he's not really suited for, because the Spurs have no choice. And he's doing a pretty good job, considering that. He's strong, and he has always been tough. But, yeah, he's having to be a lot more aggressive, and it's translating into whistles.

Put a guy into a perpetual mis-match, and he's either going to get victimized, or he's going to have to work his ass off to hold his own. And he's likely going to draw more fouls, because of the way he has to play. You accept the fouls as a consequence of playing him out of position. My point is that it should be expected by anyone who knows the game.

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Originally Posted by GSH

I understand. Many commented that they think he really is committing those fouls. (He is.) I thought it made sense to mention WHY he's committing more fouls.

The Spurs don't really have a backup C. If the articles were true, part of Aldridge's conditions for coming here was that he didn't want to play the C. Boban has a lot of good points, but he isn't ready to be a first-off-the-bench center. Bonner? I seriously hope nobody believes that he should be checking in for Tim. That leaves West as the next biggest guy, with Diaw after that. And that, right there, is potentially the Achilles heel of this roster.

West is a PF, plain and simple. That's the reason I posted the breakdown of his playing time, over his career. He's spent 92% at the PF spot, and when he wasn't, it was only out of necessity. He's playing a spot that he's not really suited for, because the Spurs have no choice. And he's doing a pretty good job, considering that. He's strong, and he has always been tough. But, yeah, he's having to be a lot more aggressive, and it's translating into whistles.

Put a guy into a perpetual mis-match, and he's either going to get victimized, or he's going to have to work his ass off to hold his own. And he's likely going to draw more fouls, because of the way he has to play. You accept the fouls as a consequence of playing him out of position. My point is that it should be expected by anyone who knows the game.

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That's why I suggested he start. We know now that Aldridge is playing center, and a) doesn't seem to mind and b) is excelling on defense. We know how good he and Timmy are on defense, and what a great closing unit they can be. Start West at power forward, bring Duncan and Diaw off the bench, use the best lineup to close out the game. They'll beat teams by 30 every night.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

That's why I suggested he start. We know now that Aldridge is playing center, and a) doesn't seem to mind and b) is excelling on defense. We know how good he and Timmy are on defense, and what a great closing unit they can be. Start West at power forward, bring Duncan and Diaw off the bench, use the best lineup to close out the game. They'll beat teams by 30 every night.

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Welp we're going to see that tonight except Boban off the bench instead of Duncan.

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Originally Posted by GSH

The Spurs don't really have a backup C. If the articles were true, part of Aldridge's conditions for coming here was that he didn't want to play the C. Boban has a lot of good points, but he isn't ready to be a first-off-the-bench center. Bonner? I seriously hope nobody believes that he should be checking in for Tim. That leaves West as the next biggest guy, with Diaw after that. And that, right there, is potentially the Achilles heel of this roster.

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Aldridge and West essentially split backup center and the latter may not play a meaningful second of it, in certain match-ups.

Though possible it rears it's ugly head again at some point, the lack of a true backup center has surprisingly not been an issue since the first few games, for the most part.

I hate to be redundant, but the potential Achilles heel, is clearly fourth wing; specifically, the lack of a Belinelli/Neal type.

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

If I were a ref I would hate someone yelling "And 1!" after every single one of his shot attempts in the paint.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I'm not a ref and I hate those people.

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:lol I played against someone like that recently at the gym... This fucking guy elbowed me in the jaw and yelled "and 1" - and then proceeded to miss his layup. Stupid bitch.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

That's why I suggested he start. We know now that Aldridge is playing center, and a) doesn't seem to mind and b) is excelling on defense. We know how good he and Timmy are on defense, and what a great closing unit they can be. Start West at power forward, bring Duncan and Diaw off the bench, use the best lineup to close out the game. They'll beat teams by 30 every night.

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Not digging West in the starting lineup at all. You see the immediate dip on defense without Tim in there. Early obviously, but it looks funky.

Lol spursfans we get a tough guy almost for free and they bitch like little pansies :lol

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Not digging West in the starting lineup at all. You see the immediate dip on defense without Tim in there. Early obviously, but it looks funky.

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I don't see Pop putting West in the starting lineup, except nights like this. He'll fare better against backup bigs, and the Tim/LMA combo just punishes the other teams' starters. I think you just accept the fact that West is going to pick up some extra fouls to play the C, and be glad that he's tough enough to hold down the fort in the middle.

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Originally Posted by hater

Lol spursfans we get a tough guy almost for free and they bitch like little pansies :lol

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Yep. I like when Sean talks about him playing "old school". He got 10 boards tonight, made 4-7, and had two blocks. I don't see how anyone can bitch about that. And you can't bitch about the refs blowing a few whistles. It's just part of the package. He's sure not hurting the team with it.

His toughness is going to be worth a lot in the playoffs.

I was just thinking this. He gets the most ticky tack calls called on him.

They're intimidated by him, they heard he's a boxer.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

That's why I suggested he start. We know now that Aldridge is playing center, and a) doesn't seem to mind and b) is excelling on defense. We know how good he and Timmy are on defense, and what a great closing unit they can be. Start West at power forward, bring Duncan and Diaw off the bench, use the best lineup to close out the game. They'll beat teams by 30 every night.

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You are on the right track, but wrong combo. LMA + Diaw and Timmy + West. LMA/West is our worst big pairing. You will find this interesting:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8316517[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by sasaint

You are on the right track, but wrong combo. LMA + Diaw and Timmy + West. LMA/West is our worst big pairing. You will find this interesting:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8316517

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Yeah, the prime reason I didn't mention Bobo instead of West is because he's so much better at posting up, and he and Duncan in a second unit is almost unfair.

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Originally Posted by Arcadian

:lol I played against someone like that recently at the gym... This fucking guy elbowed me in the jaw and yelled "and 1" - and then proceeded to miss his layup. Stupid bitch.

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Carmelo is the king of yelling "AND ONE" when he misses. It's like, you keep using that word...

Nah, he earns his whistles. He's also a presence on defense. I'll trade the fouls for giving fools something to think about whenever they get a notion to traipse into the paint.

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Originally Posted by GSH

I don't see Pop putting West in the starting lineup, except nights like this. He'll fare better against backup bigs, and the Tim/LMA combo just punishes the other teams' starters. I think you just accept the fact that West is going to pick up some extra fouls to play the C, and be glad that he's tough enough to hold down the fort in the middle.



Yep. I like when Sean talks about him playing "old school". He got 10 boards tonight, made 4-7, and had two blocks. I don't see how anyone can bitch about that. And you can't bitch about the refs blowing a few whistles. It's just part of the package. He's sure not hurting the team with it.

His toughness is going to be worth a lot in the playoffs.

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+1

West is doing everything we could possibly expect from a 4th big and much more.

Can't wait till he lays out pussies like paul, harden and curry.

Last game against the Wizard we saw Boban play extensive minutes in the regular rotation. He did quite well in disruptive the Wizard offense and being a decent threat in offense. When you got Manu, Boris and Kyle on the court at the same time with Boban, there are plenty of angles to get Boban the ball.

Honestly, come play off time, I would like to see Boban over West on the second unit. In the regular season, Spurs should pace Boban's minute. A guy that big is sure to be injury prone. You want him available come playoff time.