Kawhi All-Spur Ranking...

Somebody called into the Ticket 760 show "Sports Grind" and said Kawhi at the age of 24 is on pace to be better than Michael Jeffrey Jordan..mentioned the ring, DPOY etc and said this is only the tip of the ice burg. Well it started a heated debate on the radio..

But to me me it isn't about Jordan. What about being an All-Time great Spur? Because IMO he will never pass Timmy...never. He built this city and Kawhi is just living in it. But what would it take for top Spur consideration? To say pass Robinson, Gervin, Manu or Tony??

And what about All-Time NBA ranking? Where's his ceiling and what will it take for him to be placed among the best to ever step on the court??


Discuss..

Drob set the foundation imo

IMVHBIO: Duncan will forever be the GOAT Spur. DRob is cemented at number 2 and Parker/Gino are tied for third. After that Kawhi can knock of any other Spur that ever played and likely will if SA wins another title with him.

Damn, that got out of hand quickly. Why not just enjoy what the guy is doing right now and wait to see where he ends up a few years down the road. He's a hard-working guy who has invested tireless efforts into improving his game and now is likely to see the fruits of those labors result in an All-Star berth; if he sustains what he's done in the last 2 months over the course of the next 4 months, he'll make an All-NBA team and should get some MVP consideration to go along with whatever defensive accolades he gets.

Then, once he's done all of that, let's see him repeat it a couple of times.

I think he will, and I think he'll eventually build a case as one of the 5-10 most important Spurs ever. But we're a very long way from being able to make that case at this point.

I find it interest because if Kawhi keeps growing as a player this could be HIS league here in the next couple of years. He's 4 years away from his prime and LeBron won't be a factor and I can only see Kawhi battling out with Steph or Davis as being best in the game. He could rack up a pretty nice resume....but this all depends if he can continue without Timmy

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Damn, that got out of hand quickly. Why not just enjoy what the guy is doing right now and wait to see where he ends up a few years down the road. He's a hard-working guy who has invested tireless efforts into improving his game and now is likely to see the fruits of those labors result in an All-Star berth; if he sustains what he's done in the last 2 months over the course of the next 4 months, he'll make an All-NBA team and should get some MVP consideration to go along with whatever defensive accolades he gets.



Then, once he's done all of that, let's see him repeat it a couple of times.



I agree. It was a dumb comparison and without knowing the caller just slapped Timmy in the face. Cause if he's on path to be better than Jordan he sure as hell passes Tim. I don't see it. But then again if Kawhi can win an MVP or 2? And maybe another ring or 2? The gap gets a lot closer...but never IMO be the GOAT of San Antonio

I think he will, and I think he'll eventually build a case as one of the 5-10 most important Spurs ever. But we're a very long way from being able to make that case at this point.

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Originally Posted by coachmac87

I find it interest because if Kawhi keeps growing as a player this could be HIS league here in the next couple of years. He's 4 years away from his prime and LeBron won't be a factor and I can only see Kawhi battling out with Steph or Davis as being best in the game. He could rack up a pretty nice resume....but this all depends if he can continue without Timmy

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A. Davis, wiggins, KAT are going to be really good in 4 years.

Kawhi getting 3 chips will knock Drob to #3 imo.

It'd have to be a 3 peat in which he was clear #1A all 3 years to have a chance to sniff Tim

I'm just going to enjoy these years of his growth while he helps extend the legacy of the Big 3. It's entirely possible as LMA continues to perform well, that the Spurs will be cemented into the likes of Boston and Los Angeles as a legendary franchise. We're not quite there yet, but we're damn well knocking on the door.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

I'm just going to enjoy these years of his growth while he helps extend the legacy of the Big 3. It's entirely possible as LMA continues to perform well, that the Spurs will be cemented into the likes of Boston and Los Angeles as a legendary franchise. We're not quite there yet, but we're damn well knocking on the door.

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I actually think we are already there. I think it's just harder to see, because we're not finished yet.

Way too early to even discuss it. Guy is only 24 and in his 5th season in the league. Give him some time.

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Originally Posted by Old School 44

I actually think we are already there. I think it's just harder to see, because we're not finished yet.

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This. No franchise in the modern era has ever done what the Spurs have done over the past 16 years or so, and are still in the process of doing.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

IMVHBIO: Duncan will forever be the GOAT Spur. DRob is cemented at number 2 and Parker/Gino are tied for third. After that Kawhi can knock of any other Spur that ever played and likely will if SA wins another title with him.

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Works for me.

Duncan is so far in front NO one will ever be able to match him, imo.

It has taken the better part of 4-5 seasons for Kawhi to get to this dominant position in the team. Duncan STARTED at dominance and stayed there through 2014, imo. Yes, Tony had a Finals MVP during Duncan's time and Kawhi had a Finals MVP in Duncan's time, but as both Tony and Kawhi would no doubt attest, their ability to get the MVP is/was partly a function of the attention drawn by Duncan and (lately) others on the floor.

I have a hard time getting my head around the notion that this is even being discussed. Free speech forever!! LOL.

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Originally Posted by LoneStarState'sPride

This. No franchise in the modern era has ever done what the Spurs have done over the past 16 years or so, and are still in the process of doing.

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And not just in the NBA. Any franchise in any sport. THAT is the Duncan legacy.

Duncan is first by a large margin. David is second by a large margin. Gervin is third but Manu and Tony are not too far behind.

I think Kawhi could catch Manu/Tony if he makes a couple of all-star teams, another DPOY, and another title as the top dog. That's a tall order, but doable.

Kawhi needs to do all that, but with 6-8 years as the main guy and an all-star, multiple DPOYs, and/or a title or two to catch Gervin.

David, we're talking about DPOY, scoring champ, rebounding champ, blocks leader, main guy for a decade, 10x all-star, MVP, 2x gold medalist, 2x Champion, cultural foundation of Spurs. To catch David, Kawhi would need at least 1 MVP (probably 2 to clearly be better), 10+ all-star appearances, multiple DPOYs, and be the main guy on at least one more title team. Plus he'd need to be more of a team leader to match the cultural impact David had. Remember, in his prime David was like a big man version of Kawhi on D and more dominant offensively.

Tim? Catching Tim would require a Jordan-like career. Kawhi would need 3 MVPs, 6+ championships, 15 all-star appearances, and remain a true cultural leader for the next 20 years. No one has done that other than Tim in the last 2 decades...

Kawhi will not catch up with Duncan because he's a very good player, possibly great player, but already not a generational player. Kawhi at age 23 already has a very nice resume (Finals MVP, DPOY, All-Rookie, 2x All-Defense + a ring) but that's nothing compared to Duncan at age 23 (Finals MVP, ROY, All-Star MVP, 2x All-Star (would have been 3x without 99 season), 3x All-NBA, 3x All-Defense, 3x finishing in top 5 of MVP rankings + a ring).

Also I don't think Gervin ranks above Tony/Manu. Gervin has more All-Star/All-NBA and scoring titles, but that's about it. I don't think he ranks above Tony/Manu in terms of "Spurs" achievements (and not personal achievements). Tony and Manu have been key cogs in one of the most memorable dynasties in sport.

When did this turn into a kawhi vs tim debate? :lol

Gervin is not ahead of TP/Manu IMVHBIO. What they have done for this franchise (winning, titles), this city (fans love them) and for their countries (doesn't really count, but still) have them safely at number 3.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

I'm just going to enjoy these years of his growth while he helps extend the legacy of the Big 3. It's entirely possible as LMA continues to perform well, that the Spurs will be cemented into the likes of Boston and Los Angeles as a legendary franchise. We're not quite there yet, but we're damn well knocking on the door.

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A lot of the accomplishments by BOS and LAL that make them "legendary" were back when there were like 8 teams in the league and no salary cap.

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Originally Posted by bic50

Drob set the foundation imo

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:toast

:lol way too early for this, tbh..

He's the best individual player the Spurs have had since 2007 Duncan/2005 Ginobili, though..

If he plays his entire career with the Spurs, I think Kawhi will surely end top 3 when it's all said and done; with a good chance of dethroning Robinson for the number 2 spot. And with an improbable chance of getting ahead of Tim if he somehow manages to win 4/5/6 more rings as the alpha dog.

If he gives us atleast 2more rings as the alpha, he's top 2. More than that you can make a case for TD. Again as the alpha, and 2more will be very very hard if they dont get one this year. I think thisnis the very ideal situation though but im sure he'll finish top 5 all time. Td drob manu tp and him at the worst.

Honestly he already ranks pretty high among the Spurs, already has a FMVP, a DPOY and most importantly a big factor in helping extend Timmy and Manu's careers.

Knocking Robinson from 2 will take a regular season MVP. Can't fault Robinson for having his prime cut short by a bad back, which led to the Spurs being able to get Duncan anyway.

Assuming he doesn't fall apart tomorrow, he'll undoubtedly go down as at least the third best ahead of Manu, Parker and Iceman.

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Originally Posted by EVAY

And not just in the NBA. Any franchise in any sport...

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Don't forget about the New England Patriots

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Originally Posted by LarryDavid

Don't forget about the New England Patriots

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I didn't.

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Originally Posted by Cklbmk

Kawhi getting 3 chips will knock Drob to #3 imo.

It'd have to be a 3 peat in which he was clear #1A all 3 years to have a chance to sniff Tim

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That's a bit of a jump there. Remember, Robinson was possibly a better two way player than Kawhi.

In 10 years or more, when Kawhi retires, it'll be hard for the kids in San Antonio remember who were Manu and Parker, like it's hard for some of us remember how great was Gervin...we think Manu and Parker are better than him, and it's likely that the new generation of Spurs fans will believe that no one was better than Kawhi. It's just a matter of time...

I think Timmy is immovable by Kawhi.

However there's a case to move Drob, Parker and Manu. Parker wasn't a turning point for the franchise and neither was Manu. With Timmy and cast we were already a strong unit. They were molded and developed into what they were - yes like is being done to Kawhi.

However I think it's worth pointing out that before that Kawhi for GH trade, we seriously looked done in terms of ring contention. With a declining core and no real support, we were just going downhill.

Kawhi's acquisition literally turned this franchise around and he's become our most dominant offensive and defensive force a la Timmy and Drob. Parker and Manu really can't claim that. They're massive parts of our success, but not the way Kawhi, Timmy and Drob are.

Still pedigree matters, so the way I see it is this:

1. Timmy
2. Drob
3. Manu
4. Parker

To surpass Parker, Kawhi has to lead us to another ring and to perform consistently as a go-to guy for 4-5 years.

To surpass Manu, he's gotta do that and also have some really huge playoff performances that bring us victories that we'd otherwise lose.

To surpass Drob? He's gotta dominate the league and win an MVP. He has to be the franchise face for ar least another 8-9 years and he has to be an integral part of at least TWO more titles.

If he does that, I think you can move Drob. 3 rings, MVP and 10 years of dominance as our #1 player on both ends? Yeah it's tough but I think that puts him above Drob.

For Timmy? Six rings (or whatever is more than Timmy's total when he retires), MVP and he needs to captain the team to at least 15 years of continued success, taking paycuts and just being the great teammate that Tim has been. If Kawhi could get more rings than Timmy, shit you'd even be able to make the case for Kawhi vs. Jordan.

I don't think he can do it, but just saying if Kawhi did get 6 and played around the level he's at now for another 7-8 years...definite argument of Kawhi vs. Jordan.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

In 10 years or more, when Kawhi retires, it'll be hard for the kids in San Antonio remember who were Manu and Parker, like it's hard for some of us remember how great was Gervin...we think Manu and Parker are better than him, and it's likely that the new generation of Spurs fans will believe that no one was better than Kawhi. It's just a matter of time...

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A man with some perspective. Thanks. However, I must add my two cents about Iceman, who I was privileged to see play. Unlike Tony and Manu, Ice never played with a big remotely as talented as Tim (or DRob, for that matter). He played with Artis Gilmore for 3 seasons late in his career.

id take prime Robinson over Kawhi today 11 times out of 10. And that aint no disrespect to Kawhi

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Originally Posted by coachmac87

Somebody called into the Ticket 760 show "Sports Grind" and said Kawhi at the age of 24 is on pace to be better than Michael Jeffrey Jordan..mentioned the ring, DPOY etc and said this is only the tip of the ice burg. Well it started a heated debate on the radio..

But to me me it isn't about Jordan. What about being an All-Time great Spur? Because IMO he will never pass Timmy...never. He built this city and Kawhi is just living in it. But what would it take for top Spur consideration? To say pass Robinson, Gervin, Manu or Tony??

And what about All-Time NBA ranking? Where's his ceiling and what will it take for him to be placed among the best to ever step on the court??


Discuss..

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He is a great player but whoever called the grind (best radio show in San antonio) and compared him to MJ is a fucking stupid faggot.

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Originally Posted by will_spurs

Also I don't think Gervin ranks above Tony/Manu. Gervin has more All-Star/All-NBA and scoring titles, but that's about it. I don't think he ranks above Tony/Manu in terms of "Spurs" achievements (and not personal achievements). Tony and Manu have been key cogs in one of the most memorable dynasties in sport.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Unlike Tony and Manu, Ice never played with a big remotely as talented as Tim (or DRob, for that matter). He played with Artis Gilmore for 3 seasons late in his career.

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Originally Posted by 100%duncan

If he gives us atleast 2more rings as the alpha, he's top 2. More than that you can make a case for TD. Again as the alpha, and 2more will be very very hard if they dont get one this year. I think thisnis the very ideal situation though but im sure he'll finish top 5 all time. Td drob manu tp and him at the worst.

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Leonard has zero "rings as the alpha" and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise if the NBA had a playoff MVP instead of a Finals one. Duncan was the closest the '14 Spurs had to an alpha.

Leonard was obviously a clear cut better player and played a much bigger role, but by that logic, Iguodala was the alpha on the '15 Warriors.

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Originally Posted by Neurosis

However I think it's worth pointing out that before that Kawhi for GH trade, we seriously looked done in terms of ring contention. With a declining core and no real support, we were just going downhill.

Kawhi's acquisition literally turned this franchise around and he's become our most dominant offensive and defensive force a la Timmy and Drob. Parker and Manu really can't claim that. They're massive parts of our success, but not the way Kawhi, Timmy and Drob are.

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Leonard was obviously the biggest reason they vaulted back into contention, but he wasn't the only one. Duncan somehow managing to not only halt, but reverse his decline; Parker somehow managing to have his two best seasons at a point where he should have already peaked. Also, acquiring/expanding the roles of Splitter, Green, Diaw and Mills.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

A man with some perspective. Thanks. However, I must add my two cents about Iceman, who I was privileged to see play. Unlike Tony and Manu, Ice never played with a big remotely as talented as Tim (or DRob, for that matter). He played with Artis Gilmore for 3 seasons late in his career.

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That's true, and clearly Tony and Manu benefit hugely from playing alongside Tim. Actually that's even true of DRob. It's also true that Gervin was a better basketball player than both.

However when I look at an All-Spur list I can't focus only on personal achievements but rather on rings, sustained playoff performance, actually being in the playoffs year after year, putting SA on the basketball map, etc. Right now SA is the 3rd or 4th franchise in the All-time list (behind Lakers, Boston and possibly Chicago). And in my view that's obviously thanks to Tim first, then DRob, then Tony/Manu, then Gervin.

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Originally Posted by EVAY

And not just in the NBA. Any franchise in any sport. THAT is the Duncan legacy.

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There is a world outside of the US dude...

In terms of talent he is already better than any spur not named Duncan Robinson or Parker tbqh.

But in terms of overall career, he still is probably not even top 5. Probably right behind Bowen and just ahead of Elliott

From ghetto to ghetto, to backyard to yard
I sell it whip on whip, it's off the hard
I'm the neighborhood Pusha
Call me sub woofer, 'cause I pump bass like that, Jack

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Originally Posted by romain.star

There is a world outside of the US dude...

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I think you misunderstood. He was talking about sports that count and/or are not rigged.

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Originally Posted by I. Hustle

I think you misunderstood. He was talking about sports that count and/or are not rigged.

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sports that count / not rigged... I am curious to read your list my friend

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Originally Posted by hater

In terms of talent he is already better than any spur not named Duncan Robinson or Parker tbqh.

But in terms of overall career, he still is probably not even top 5. Probably right behind Bowen and just ahead of Elliott

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1/ he is not more talented than Gervin
2/ I loved Bowen but Kawhi is already ahead

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Originally Posted by romain.star

sports that count / not rigged... I am curious to read your list my friend

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NBA
NFL

It's a short list

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Originally Posted by I. Hustle

NBA
NFL

It's a short list

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Short list indeed but NFL... I thought we were talking about Sports that count

Right now no one comes close to Duncan. No one.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

IMVHBIO: Duncan will forever be the GOAT Spur. DRob is cemented at number 2 and Parker/Gino are tied for third. After that Kawhi can knock of any other Spur that ever played and likely will if SA wins another title with him.

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George Gervin third.

lol what a retarded take.

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Originally Posted by romain.star

Short list indeed but NFL... I thought we were talking about Sports that count

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Not sure why you're not letting him know about how legendary the all blacks are. Or do they not count?

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Originally Posted by romain.star

Short list indeed but NFL... I thought we were talking about Sports that count

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Just trying to get a rise outta ya, mate.

This didn't turn into manu vs Tony. Good job guys.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

George Gervin third.

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TP/Manu winning championships plus their longevity and accolades have them firmly ahead of Gervin in my book

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

TP/Manu winning championships plus their longevity and accolades have them firmly ahead of Gervin in my book

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I don't have a problem with this as an opinion, but I do think today's fans underrate Gervin. His individual accolades are greater than those of Tony or Manu (9x all-star, 5x all-NBA, scoring champ, #1 option on the Spurs for over a decade), and while I agree that the titles should hold a ton of weight, it's also important to remember that Gervin was the main draw for the Spurs when he played and those attendance numbers were one of the big reasons the NBA wanted the Spurs in the first place. Tony and Manu took a championship-winning team and helped Tim make themselves dynasty. Gervin took a small-market ABA team and made them a viable NBA franchise. Without him we may not even have the Spurs (same with David). That's a big impact for any current player to equal.

Damn... No love for the Ice Man.

Higher than Porker tbh

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Originally Posted by ajh18

I don't have a problem with this as an opinion, but I do think today's fans underrate Gervin. His individual accolades are greater than those of Tony or Manu (9x all-star, 5x all-NBA, scoring champ, #1 option on the Spurs for over a decade), and while I agree that the titles should hold a ton of weight, it's also important to remember that Gervin was the main draw for the Spurs when he played and those attendance numbers were one of the big reasons the NBA wanted the Spurs in the first place. Tony and Manu took a championship-winning team and helped Tim make themselves dynasty. Gervin took a small-market ABA team and made them a viable NBA franchise. Without him we may not even have the Spurs (same with David). That's a big impact for any current player to equal.

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:bobo

Agree with the Gervin love. He was a legit top 5 player in the NBA. He was on good teams that lost to great teams in the playoffs, in some very tough losses.

Both he and DRob are under-respected by many fans today, largely on this idea that only players who win championships are all time greats. I agree to a point. But after many years of watching bball I recognize that the difference between winning a championship or not is usually based on bench play, injuries, refereeing, and just whose shots happen to go in.

So, is it really right to factor in "rings" so much when comparing all time greats? I think it is better to go back and look at how players were rated at the time they were playing. History is written by the winners and everyone has a tendency to remember things differently than they really happened.

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Originally Posted by ajh18

I don't have a problem with this as an opinion, but I do think today's fans underrate Gervin. His individual accolades are greater than those of Tony or Manu (9x all-star, 5x all-NBA, scoring champ, #1 option on the Spurs for over a decade), and while I agree that the titles should hold a ton of weight, it's also important to remember that Gervin was the main draw for the Spurs when he played and those attendance numbers were one of the big reasons the NBA wanted the Spurs in the first place. Tony and Manu took a championship-winning team and helped Tim make themselves dynasty. Gervin took a small-market ABA team and made them a viable NBA franchise. Without him we may not even have the Spurs (same with David). That's a big impact for any current player to equal.

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I think that the posters who rate Gervin behind anybody other than Timmy and DRob are just young guys who never saw The Iceman play except on a couple of YouTube clips. Glad to have your company on the Iceman Revival Wagon. You are absolutely right about this franchise's probably being defunct without Ice.

My present starting unit for the All-Time Spurs Team is: DRob, Timmy, Gervin, Kawhi and Manu. But that is not quite the same thing as my Top Five Spurs list: Timmy, DRob, Gervin, Manu, Tony. I expect Kawhi to get into the top 5 or 4 before he is done. I think it is possible for him to get to #3. But it would be nearly impossible from him to move ahead of DRob or Tim.

Younger fans might not have seen Gervin play. But if they spend 5 minutes on basketball-reference.com and they'll see that he has a WAY more impressive resume than Tony or Manu. We're talking 2nd in MVP voting twice and 3rd once. He was a 1st team NBA and top 5 MVP player for 6-7 years. He was also an Allstar almost every year of his career. Not to mention that he lead the league in scoring 4 times while shooting a high %. OK he didn't play defense, but a lot of guys didn't in that era.

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Originally Posted by Cklbmk

Kawhi getting 3 chips will knock Drob to #3 imo.

It'd have to be a 3 peat in which he was clear #1A all 3 years to have a chance to sniff Tim

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Go look at the Admirals stat lines from the first 6 years of his career. Soak them in. They are other-worldly. Kawhi is not in the conversation. It IS Tim, David, George, (Manu and Tony or Tony and Manu), THEN everyone else.

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Originally Posted by 101A

Go look at the Admirals stat lines from the first 6 years of his career. Soak them in. They are other-worldly. Kawhi is not in the conversation. It IS Tim, David, George, (Manu and Tony or Tony and Manu), THEN everyone else.

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Let's just wait until Kawhi's career over atleast.

When I watch Kawhi play, I see the second coming of Scottie Pippen. Just look at the stat line it is just like Pippen's normal stat line when he was in his prime.

I rank the top Spurs like this.

1. Timmy
2. DRob
3. Gervin
4. Parker
5. Manu
6. Kawhi
7. Elliott

Kawhi is going to pass everyone but Timmy and it's up in the air if he will pass DRob. I don't see it myself. It's beyond just championships and MVP and All-star appearances. DRob carried some very bad Spurs teams for 9 seasons. The one time he had a decent team was 95 and even that wasn't enough to get the Spurs over the top. 96 - 97 was the perfect example, without DRob this team won 20 games. With him it probably wins 50 and gets into the playoffs.

We will never know what will happen if Kawhi was in that position because Spurs management is so good it will find guys to help him. As far as success goes, Kawhi is in position to maybe even surpass Timmy when it comes to championships and accolades.

No matter what he accomplishes he will never pass Timmy or DRob in my eyes.

Crazy. Pretty amazing.

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Originally Posted by bic50

Not sure why you're not letting him know about how legendary the all blacks are. Or do they not count?

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Somehow, Rugby is indeed the most underrated sport out there. And yes, the legendery all blacks are like an on-going, never-ending Dream Team.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

I'm just going to enjoy these years of his growth while he helps extend the legacy of the Big 3. It's entirely possible as LMA continues to perform well, that the Spurs will be cemented into the likes of Boston and Los Angeles as a legendary franchise. We're not quite there yet, but we're damn well knocking on the door.

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We have the best RS win percentage, all time. People also don't realize that back in the day, you had to win two series to ring. There were only eight teams. How many times have we won two series? Five rings, plus 2013, plus 2012, plus 2008, plus 2001, plus 1995. That would be ten rings by 50s 60s standards.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

TP/Manu winning championships plus their longevity and accolades have them firmly ahead of Gervin in my book

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Gervin is a way better player than Parker or Ginobili. He just didn't have David Robinson, Tim Duncan, and Greg Popovich on his side:

* 12-time all-star
* 5-time 1st-team all-NBA
* leading scorer/game in playoffs 6 times including 5 in a row in NBA.

Kawhi isn't a top 5 spur on this years team.

LMAlpha
Duncan
Parker
Manu
Green

A lot of work to catch D-Rob at number 2..

Duncan
Parker
Robinson
Iceman
Ginobili

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Leonard has zero "rings as the alpha" and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise if the NBA had a playoff MVP instead of a Finals one. Duncan was the closest the '14 Spurs had to an alpha.

Leonard was obviously a clear cut better player and played a much bigger role, but by that logic, Iguodala was the alpha on the '15 Warriors.

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Maybe misunderstanding I think. Wasn't trying to say I thought Kawhi was the alpha who led us to the first ring (even though he was an integral part of championship success). What I mean was if he can become the alpha the playoffs and then lead us to 2 rings while being the alpha dog - I'd put him above DRob. Like say we won this season and the next, with kawhi as the clear-cut alpha (as he is so far this season) and the guy we go to in crunch time - I'd say that coupled with his being the biggest factor in turning us into a contender again puts him above DRob.

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Leonard was obviously the biggest reason they vaulted back into contention, but he wasn't the only one. Duncan somehow managing to not only halt, but reverse his decline; Parker somehow managing to have his two best seasons at a point where he should have already peaked. Also, acquiring/expanding the roles of Splitter, Green, Diaw and Mills.

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No disagreements here bro :toast Not trying to undermine how big our other role players have been.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Gervin is a way better player than Parker or Ginobili. He just didn't have David Robinson, Tim Duncan, and Greg Popovich on his side:

* 12-time all-star
* 5-time 1st-team all-NBA
* leading scorer/game in playoffs 6 times including 5 in a row in NBA.

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Yes but we're not talking about All-NBA (Gervin clearly way ahead of Tony/Manu) but All-Spur... and that's a different story as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by romain.star

Somehow, Rugby is indeed the most underrated sport out there. And yes, the legendery all blacks are like an on-going, never-ending Dream Team.

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I'll admit, I don't know much about rugby but I do know who the all blacks are and how successful they've been for so long. And Jonah lomu R.I.P is one of my all time favorite athletes.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Gervin is a way better player than Parker or Ginobili. He just didn't have David Robinson, Tim Duncan, and Greg Popovich on his side:

* 12-time all-star
* 5-time 1st-team all-NBA
* leading scorer/game in playoffs 6 times including 5 in a row in NBA.

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We just have to disagree. Sure, all-star games are cute, but I don't weigh them too heavily. All NBA-Teams, MVP's, FMVP's and winning/titles mean more to me personally.

It always comes off as knocking someone when you rank them below someone else, but based on how long TP/Manu have remained great, the teams success (including championships, 50 win seasons, and personal awards) I can't place Gervin over TP/Manu.

Plus, dat Gervin defense...I don't think anyone is saying Gervin wasn't a gifted scorer. But when you factor in all around game, the level of sustained success and what they have meant to the city, I can't do it. He was great for SA, a gifted scorer but he's number 4 for me with a chance to fall to 5 if Kawhi keeps it up.

He's already ranked higher than Enrique. Only has Timmy, DRob, Manu and Gervin ahead of him. I think he has a good chance at surpassing all of them except Timmy.

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Originally Posted by romain.star

There is a world outside of the US dude...

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Granted. I overstated and only meant to refer to U.S. current sports franchises.

lol old fucks focusing on stats alone, might as well put Drob over everyone then

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

It always comes off as knocking someone when you rank them below someone else, but based on how long TP/Manu have remained great, the teams success (including championships, 50 win seasons, and personal awards) I can't place Gervin over TP/Manu.

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Parker and Ginobili have never made 1st team all-NBA. Gervin did it five times.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Parker and Ginobili have never made 1st team all-NBA. Gervin did it five times.

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You are wasting your breath on guys who apparently never saw Ice play. But welcome to the Iceman Revival Wagon!

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Originally Posted by Old School 44

I actually think we are already there. I think it's just harder to see, because we're not finished yet.

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Bullshit. We need at least 3-5 more rings. And im sure Kawhi can get us there.

The crazy thing is that Kawhi keeps getting better! Its difficult to project his success without establishing his ceiling. You have to think with a good front office and LMA that he'll secure at least 2 'ships over the course of his long career. That would place him squarely at #2 Spur All-Time. Add a couple DPOYs, maybe a lifetime MVP award, he could potentially tuck himself underneath Bird on the All-time list.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Parker and Ginobili have never made 1st team all-NBA. Gervin did it five times.

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Sure. Parker & Ginobili won multiple titles, been a part of how many 50 win seasons and done it in what appears to be the most competitive conference of all time.

Also, please understand I'm not arguing that if you have Gervin ahead of TP/Manu that it's some travesty. I can see why people would hold that opinion. I just give the nod to TP/Manu because of the winning they have done, not because in a bubble they were better players.

I also think that if you make an "all-Spur list/ranking", winning should be the main basis. This is not simply the best spurs players ever list, it' the "best spurs" so you'd have to take into consideration big time what they have done to the spurs team and not simply individual awards. But hey, focus on stats alone if it fits your argument.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Plus, dat Gervin defense...I don't think anyone is saying Gervin wasn't a gifted scorer. But when you factor in all around game, the level of sustained success and what they have meant to the city, I can't do it. He was great for SA, a gifted scorer but he's number 4 for me with a chance to fall to 5 if Kawhi keeps it up.

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Gervin had the body of a great defender. He was the best shot-blocking guard of all time. He didn't have Pop to coach him like Parker and Ginobili.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Gervin had the body of a great defender. He was the best shot-blocking guard of all time. He didn't have Pop to coach him like Parker and Ginobili.

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He's also the only guard besides Jordan to average 30 & shoot 50% from the field more than once since the 3 point line was instituted. Durant (plays like a guard) did it in his MVP season & Curry might do it this season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Gervin is a way better player than Parker or Ginobili. He just didn't have David Robinson, Tim Duncan, and Greg Popovich on his side:

* 12-time all-star
* 5-time 1st-team all-NBA
* leading scorer/game in playoffs 6 times including 5 in a row in NBA.

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Durant is the modern day version of George Gervin.