African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

I've given you my honest answer many times over... You all disingenuously always try to twist it around into something that it is not... Any many posters grab my responses outside of the flow of the discussion I'm having with you... And twist it some more devoid of any context whatsoever... So here's your answer.

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Is asking for honest answers disingenuous?

Please expand on how honest answers to fair, relevant questions can be considered disingenuous. You have accused me of being dishonest, and I would prefer not to be dishonest.

I fail to see how honest, truthful answers can ever twist something into what it is not. Seems like that is the only real path to truth.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Since you don't seem to be willing to answer the specific question about what your analysis left out, let me help you.



Why do you not want to talk about the part where this being asks a human to kill his son? You implied my take was inaccurate, and I asked you to correct my "simplification" if it was inaccurate.

If this being knows what is in the heart of the man, why not simply ask him how selfless he is?

Why bother with the human sacrifice element?

Would you ever ask anyone to do that? Why or why not?

We could go on to another human sacrifices in the bible, if you prefer.



God didn't stop Jephthah. Does god like burnt daughters? Is there some part of that that I am missing?

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You're reading what is at its core literature--divinely inspired or not. As such, it deserves analysis into its possibley deeper subliminal meaning. I'm less concerned with trying to change your mind that God was/is evil in this particular interaction with Abraham, then I am with offering up a counter viewpoint on what God's intent may have actually been, or was, instead in order to do the literature itself and the millennia of Biblical scholarly analysis their due justice, respectively.

If only RG subjected some of his notions to the same level of scrutiny......

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Is asking for honest answers disingenuous?

Please expand on how honest answers to fair, relevant questions can be considered disingenuous. You have accused me of being dishonest, and I would prefer not to be dishonest.

I fail to see how honest, truthful answers can ever twist something into what it is not. Seems like that is the only real path to truth.

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It's disingenuous when you always want the answers to line up with your preconceived notions of what you want them to be. When they don't line up, you ALWAYS gloss over it and you harp on the next point.

It's the oldest trick in the book. Throw multiple arguments at someone, and nit pick at all their answers - but especially the weakest one - and then turn around and claim logical victory for all of the posited arguments. You always do this - without fail. And then you throw your hands in the air and say, "What?? All I wanted were honest answers".

I try to be civil with you. But unfortunately there are way too many moving parts in this forum to ever get anywhere (too many distracting posters which derail any semblance of true discourse). Furthermore, you throw way too many arguments to ever be able to address any one completely or to your satisfaction. The argument always moves and never settles. And then the "demanding" tactic... it's so condescending.

The worse part [the part that is most frustrating] is that my belief structure is built on an understanding of the scriptures you simply refuse to give any logical merit to.

For example If I say that "Scripture A" supports "belief B", not only do you argue against "belief B", but attack my interpretation of "Scripture A", and then it quickly devolves into an attack on the tenets of Christianity in general, and hence my own belief structure at large...

In every single thread where this discussion rears its head... ultimately you [or someone else] always end up positing the GOD question, and without fail you simply say. I don't believe in GOD's existence, therefore "Scripture A" is irrelevant (and has no merit whatsoever), so "belief B" is completely erroneous. Anyone who tries to argue for the merits of" belief B", THEN ends up having to scale up to an intransigent position that is so firmly entrenched in your own belief structure (i.e. "GOD does not exist") that they've already lost the argument in your mind before ever entering it. That is why the dynamic of all of your so called "genuine" questions is rather disingenuous - you may disagree with my description and over-simplification of the dynamic - but it always unfolds in this manner.

That is the pattern of every single one of these arguments.

It's futile.

It's tiring.

AND it strips away at both of our time.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Is mental anguish harmful?

Yes or no. 2nd time.

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What is this pissy authority with which you demand answers???? You are somehow never able to see when a question has been answered. IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE DISMISSIVE BLIND MICE. GO FOR IT. FRANKLY, I'm tired of these circular-logic games.

Continue believing what you believe. I nor anyone else have ever told you otherwise. Peace and farewell.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

It's disingenuous when you always want the answers to line up with your preconceived notions of what you want them to be. When they don't line up, you ALWAYS gloss over it and you harp on the next point.

It's the oldest trick in the book. Throw multiple arguments at someone, and nit pick at all their answers - but especially the weakest one - and then turn around and claim logical victory for all of the posited arguments. You always do this - without fail. And then you throw your hands in the air and say, "What?? All I wanted were honest answers".

I try to be civil with you. But unfortunately there are way too many moving parts in this forum to ever get anywhere (too many distracting posters which derail any semblance of true discourse). Furthermore, you throw way too many arguments to ever be able to address any one completely or to your satisfaction. The argument always moves and never settles. And then the "demanding" tactic... it's so condescending.

The worse part [the part that is most frustrating] is that my belief structure is built on an understanding of the scriptures you simply refuse to give any logical merit to.

For example If I say that "Scripture A" supports "belief B", not only do you argue against "belief B", but attack my interpretation of "Scripture A", and then it quickly devolves into an attack on the tenets of Christianity in general, and hence my own belief structure at large...

In every single thread where this discussion rears its head... ultimately you [or someone else] always end up positing the GOD question, and without fail you simply say. I don't believe in GOD's existence, therefore "Scripture A" is irrelevant (and has no merit whatsoever), so "belief B" is completely erroneous. Anyone who tries to argue for the merits of" belief B", THEN ends up having to scale up to an intransigent position that is so firmly entrenched in your own belief structure (i.e. "GOD does not exist") that they've already lost the argument in your mind before ever entering it. That is why the dynamic of all of your so called "genuine" questions is rather disingenuous - you may disagree with my description and over-simplification of the dynamic - but it always unfolds in this manner.

That is the pattern of every single one of these arguments.

It's futile.

It's tiring.

AND it strips away at both of our time.



What is this pissy authority with which you demand answers???? You are somehow never able to see when a question has been answered. IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE PLAYING THE ROLE OF THE DISMISSIVE BLIND MICE. GO FOR IT. FRANKLY, I'm tired of these circular-logic games.

Continue believing what you believe. I nor anyone else have ever told you otherwise. Peace and farewell.

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You need to pull yourself out of this emotional tailspin. People can respect your right to believe without respecting what you believe. Christians are not being persecuted.

Do you also believe there is a war on Christmas?

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

If only RG subjected some of his notions to the same level of scrutiny......

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I am always happy to do so.

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Originally Posted by mingus

You're reading what is at its core literature--divinely inspired or not. As such, it deserves analysis into its possibley deeper subliminal meaning. I'm less concerned with trying to change your mind that God was/is evil in this particular interaction with Abraham, then I am with offering up a counter viewpoint on what God's intent may have actually been, or was, instead in order to do the literature itself and the millennia of Biblical scholarly analysis their due justice, respectively.

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Are you capable of answering questions honestly?

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Originally Posted by Th'Pusher

You need to pull yourself out of this emotional tailspin. People can respect your right to believe without respecting what you believe. Christians are not being persecuted.

Do you also believe there is a war on Christmas?

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This.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Are you capable of answering questions honestly?

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No! I'm a pathological liar!

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Originally Posted by mingus

You're reading what is at its core literature--divinely inspired or not. As such, it deserves analysis into its possibly deeper subliminal meaning

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Lolwut

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Originally Posted by mingus

No! I'm a pathological liar!

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A fun paradox. :lol

I will assume from the sarcasm you like to think you are honest, and thought my question was snarky. It wasn't.

I was hoping you would simply answer it. Seriously though, do you consider yourself an honest person? Is it important to you?

No! I am a pathological LIAR!

TBH, what exactly do you have trouble understanding? I've explained myself here to the fullest extent that I seemingly can.

I called your shitty analysis of what God meant toward Abraham & Isaac a simple one, based on the FACT that it didn't even mention nevermind address the counter-view to it, as if to say it's the only one that's worthy of consideration. So what am I missing exactly? Where am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by mingus

TBH, what exactly do you have trouble understanding? I've explained myself here to the fullest extent that I seemingly can.

I called your shitty analysis of what God meant toward Abraham & Isaac a simple one, based on the FACT that it didn't even mention nevermind address the counter-view to it, as if to say it's the only one that's worthy of consideration. So what am I missing exactly? Where am I wrong?

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What's the counter view, reverend?

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Originally Posted by mingus

No! I am a pathological LIAR!

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Pathological avoider is more like it. You won't touch anyone questioning your 'counter-narrative' which of course is so nebulous as to be meaningless and is not mutually exclusive with what we are saying. At least Thoreau had the balls to try and describe it but even then he came ot the conclusion that faith and reason should not contradict like we are describing.

You claim that there is some other subliminal meaning. You have in no way described what that is and when questioned on it you go into this most current dodge.

You want to follow the playbook of a theocrat 3.5 centuries after the fact and ignore all of the historical, societal, anthropological and archeological proof to the contrary then you go right ahead. You go ahead and think that Jesus supported the Levites when everything in his story points the other way. He was overturning dovecoats and money tables with a huge crowd at his back because he actually wanted people to follow those directives as you defend them in his name.

Jesus entire point was you didn't have to do sacrifices like that to obtain the kingdom of heaven. Here your dumbass is trying to justify someone demanding physical offerings of the worst sort and you are trying to shoehorn it into Jesus' religion?

Christians are stupid and without principle for the most part is what it seems to me.

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Originally Posted by Blake

What's the counter view, reverend?

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It's the one I've already offered up--the one every theologian & follower of Christianity or Judaism I've personally ever talk to subscribes to.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Pathological avoider is more like it. You won't touch anyone questioning your 'counter-narrative' which of course is so nebulous as to be meaningless and is not mutually exclusive with what we are saying. At least Thoreau had the balls to try and describe it but even then he came ot the conclusion that faith and reason should not contradict like we are describing.You claim that there is some other subliminal meaning. You have in no way described what that is and when questioned on it you go into this most current dodge.You want to follow the playbook of a theocrat 3.5 centuries after the fact and ignore all of the historical, societal, anthropological and archeological proof to the contrary then you go right ahead. You go ahead and think that Jesus supported the Levites when everything in his story points the other way. He was overturning dovecoats and money tables with a huge crowd at his back because he actually wanted people to follow those directives as you defend them in his name.Jesus entire point was you didn't have to do sacrifices like that to obtain the kingdom of heaven. Here your dumbass is trying to justify someone demanding physical offerings of the worst sort and you are trying to shoehorn it into Jesus' religion?Christians are stupid and without principle for the most part is what it seems to me.

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"All Christians are stupid""But pppplease, answer my questions you stupid fucking Christians""Hey stupid fucking Christians, why are you avoiding my questions?"I avoid people, not questions.Go choke on a dick.

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Originally Posted by mingus

"All Christians are stupid""But pppplease, answer my questions you stupid fucking Christians""Hey stupid fucking Christians, why are you avoiding my questions?"I avoid people, not questions.Go choke on a dick.

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Cowardice is as cowardice does. You cannot even restate my points goes to show how hardcore your avoidance is. We both know you have nothing but 'subliminal meaning' and we both know it to be horseshit.

I didn't ask a question. I hammered you for supporting the laws that Jesus acted against. You are of the Pharisees more than Jesus.

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Originally Posted by mingus

It's the one I've already offered up--the one every theologian & follower of Christianity or Judaism I've personally ever talk to subscribes to.

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Repost it would you or at least link the post. I think you're full of shit.

Your words don't mean shit to me, you pompous shithead. Maybe you'll get your answers via my other conservations. But I've no interest in answering directly to a pompous shithead.

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Originally Posted by mingus

Your words don't mean shit to me, you pompous shithead. Maybe you'll get your answers via my other conservations. But I've no interest in answering directly to a pompous shithead.

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'God' is asking Isaac to sacrifice his son for salvation.

Jesus overturns dovecotes and harrangues the pharisees practicing leviticus for demanding sacrifice for salvation.

Aristotle said something along the lines of an enlightened mind can entertain a notion without having to accept it. Your behavior smacks of fear.

You do understand that your Holy Book was put together by men named Constantine, Cyril, and Nestor? Your God did not make that book. Men did.

If you could restate my points and actually argue on merit I wouldn't treat you as I do. You are doing the veritable holding your hands over your ears and screaming. I address your counter narrative of the Holy Spirit driving all this directly. I give you the same respect I ask for.

If you don't want to argue then great but tossing insults at me and only that is not going to presenting the case that you want.

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Originally Posted by mingus

It's the one I've already offered up--the one every theologian & follower of Christianity or Judaism I've personally ever talk to subscribes to.

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Sorry, I don't see where you offered it up. Is it really too much for you to repost it

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

'God' is asking Isaac to sacrifice his son for salvation.

Jesus overturns dovecotes and harrangues the pharisees practicing leviticus for demanding sacrifice for salvation.

Aristotle said something along the lines of an enlightened mind can entertain a notion without having to accept it. Your behavior smacks of fear.

You do understand that your Holy Book was put together by men named Constantine, Cyril, and Nestor? Your God did not make that book. Men did.

If you could restate my points and actually argue on merit I wouldn't treat you as I do. You are doing the veritable holding your hands over your ears and screaming. I address your counter narrative of the Holy Spirit driving all this directly. I give you the same respect I ask for.

If you don't want to argue then great but tossing insults at me and only that is not going to presenting the case that you want.

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Sir, what's your issue?

You throw up a broad generalization about Christians, calling them all stupid, and you throw a hissy fit when I avoid entering a debate with you. I don't waste my precious time with people who hold such irrational views.

I'm more than ready to discuss this topic, whether I turn out to be right or wrong, with someone else.

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Originally Posted by Blake

Sorry, I don't see where you offered it up. Is it really too much for you to repost it

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I'll go through my statements later on today. Right now I have very little time. I'm not trying to avoid you. I may be wrong--I don't know--and it doesn't bother me one bit if it turns out I am. But, later I will get back to you.

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Originally Posted by mingus

I'll go through my statements later on today. Right now I have very little time. I'm not trying to avoid you. I may be wrong--I don't know--and it doesn't bother me one bit if it turns out I am. But, later I will get back to you.

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Its up to you if you want to keep the conversation going. No skin off of my back.

I'm fairly certain you won't find a pastor anywhere that talks about the subliminal message of this parable though