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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
SAGirl
It's possible the mins on Kawhi combined with his exertion on defense is leaving him depleted to close out these games. It was similar against Chicago.
The only real similarity between last game and the game in Chicago was that Pop didn't call a complete play and just gave him the ball to figure out how to score a desperation 3 without help, screens...nothing.
Pop's coaching in clutch time has nothing to do with Kawhi minutes, tbh.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
YGWHI
The only real similarity between last game and the game in Chicago was that Pop didn't call a complete play and just gave him the ball to figure out how to score a desperation 3 without help, screens...nothing.
Pop's coaching in clutch time has nothing to do with Kawhi minutes, tbh.
We differ. I think both are a factor. POP has been poor directing late game execution since the team has identity issues, but Kawhi has also seemed tired in shots he's attempted and whether he's settled for contested shots instead of doing something else.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TDfan2007
On another note, I honestly don't know what I'll do if I see another pathetic low-post pumpfake/forced shot combo from LMA...
Or one of his now-patented pump-fake/aborted-drive combos from the high post. Haven't seen him successfully get by anyone yet this season, IIRC...uuugly:vomit:
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
SAGirl
We differ. I think both are a factor. POP has been poor directing late game execution since the team has identity issues, but Kawhi has also seemed tired in shots he's attempted and whether he's settled for contested shots instead of doing something else.
That's on Pop too. It's not like the team clear out for Kawhi.
What more he can do with LMA and Tim there...If Pop doesn't want that Kawhi take that type of shot, just call a play and move your two bigs...
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
100%duncan
Hard to improve when you go unnoticed for a long stretch and all you're suddenly expected to bail the team out with a minute left to play.
Yeah, that did happen a lot in this game, but I'm speaking generally.
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Originally Posted by
apalisoc_9
Going to have to disagree with you here. Still, i think you are one of the few here who actually knows the sports so you can be right.
My point being is that there are various ways to get a clutch touch. Either on the triple threat or deep post. They are a great defensive team, they can afford to go this route offensively as oppopsed to a full breakdown the defense in crunch time via perimetter attackers.
I seriously doubt that can be an offensive recipe for success, down the stretch of close games, against solid or better teams, particularly on the road. The past nearly season and a half of evidence indicates that it can't.
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Originally Posted by
YGWHI
-He doesn't have bad numbers in those situations, in fact, the last time I looked at his stats he was the 2nd best Spurs player in those pick and roll situations after Parker.
-If Danny driving and trying to run pick and rolls is the option, I'd rather to see Kawhi with the ball in his hands instead of Green.
It's all about context. He not only doesn't run near the amount Parker and Ginobili do, but most of his are probably of the secondary/side variety, where the defense is already bent/a step behind, in rotation.
Obviously, Leonard is a superior pick and roll option to Green. But he's not the kind of player that can break down a set defense off a high pick and roll and either get to the line or create for others. Most great go-to perimeter players excel at at least one of these the things.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
It happens in a lot of close games imho. Look at the OKC one, nigga was owning early in the 4th then suddenly they went away from him only to give him back the ball in the last minutes, he actually delivered but was too little too late. The Bulls game, where parker, td and manu all made boneheaded plays down the stretch, pop drawing up a fucked up play expecting kawhi to suddenly have the touch to hit a 3.
It happens a lot even on the games we win, kawhi scores gets hot then he gets ignored. It happens everytime, heck it happened last game.
My point is, you cant expect a young superstart in kawhi to fully develop (I agree that he's still not there in terms of end game decisioning execution etc) if you cant even offer him consistency with touches.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
100%duncan
It happens in a lot of close games imho. Look at the OKC one, nigga was owning early in the 4th then suddenly they went away from him only to give him back the ball in the last minutes, he actually delivered but was too little too late. The Bulls game, where parker, td and manu all made boneheaded plays down the stretch, pop drawing up a fucked up play expecting kawhi to suddenly have the touch to hit a 3.
It happens a lot even on the games we win, kawhi scores gets hot then he gets ignored. It happens everytime, heck it happened last game.
My point is, you cant expect a young superstart in kawhi to fully develop (I agree that he's still not there in terms of end game decisioning execution etc) if you cant even offer him consistency with touches.
I don't think it's as much about him developing in that role as it is him not having the skill set for it.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TD 21
I don't think it's as much about him developing in that role as it is him not having the skill set for it.
It's all about developing with kawhi. Nigga couldnt dribble, hit a 3, post up, spot up in college. He was a hustle, defense first type but now he's a top 5player in the nba.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
100%duncan
It's all about developing with kawhi. Nigga couldnt dribble, hit a 3, post up, spot up in college. He was a hustle, defense first type but now he's a top 5player in the nba.
Play making is the type of skill you either have or you don't. Not to say you can't get incrementally better, but he's in year five. If he were capable of being a lead play maker, we'd have seen it by now.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
SAGirl
We differ. I think both are a factor. POP has been poor directing late game execution since the team has identity issues, but Kawhi has also seemed tired in shots he's attempted and whether he's settled for contested shots instead of doing something else.
Agree about being tired. You can't have Kawhi guarding Harden and expect him to be efficient also on the offensive side.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
ceperez
Agree about being tired. You can't have Kawhi guarding Harden and expect him to be efficient also on the offensive side.
And playing 38 minutes last night. Dude is all heart out there. He was also tied with harden for most points in the game. Let that sink in. He played just as good as harden on offense and great defense for 38 fucking minutes.
People need to understand he is fucking human. :lol
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TD 21
Play making is the type of skill you either have or you don't. Not to say you can't get incrementally better, but he's in year five. If he were capable of being a lead play maker, we'd have seen it by now.
I don't always agree with you, in fact I differ from you a lot, but I respect you since your opinions are always well supported.
I agree on this view. I think Pop has said as much when praising both Simmons and Anderson. The one thing about both players that impressed Pop the most is their passing ability, something that Pop has apparently prioritized replenishing with Manu's retirement near. Pop himself stated that the ability to really see the floor and read situations is pure talent, (something he doesn't even know if he can coach into a guy) stating that some guys have it, and some don't.
I do think Pop shows video, and keeps motivating guys to pass the ball and such, but some guys have a natural ability for passing, which once developed can become elite.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TD 21
Play making is the type of skill you either have or you don't. Not to say you can't get incrementally better, but he's in year five. If he were capable of being a lead play maker, we'd have seen it by now.
He has shown flashes esp in making assists. He recognizes open men better than our starting pg. Kawhi is about improving imho, but the team relies on a 37 yr old ginobili and a 34 yr old parker to deliver in the clutch. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TD 21
Yeah, that did happen a lot in this game, but I'm speaking generally.
I seriously doubt that can be an offensive recipe for success, down the stretch of close games, against solid or better teams, particularly on the road. The past nearly season and a half of evidence indicates that it can't.
It's all about context. He not only doesn't run near the amount Parker and Ginobili do, but most of his are probably of the secondary/side variety, where the defense is already bent/a step behind, in rotation.
Obviously, Leonard is a superior pick and roll option to Green. But he's not the kind of player that can break down a set defense off a high pick and roll and either get to the line or create for others. Most great go-to perimeter players excel at at least one of these the things.
The past season enough didnt have this Leonard though.
In any case, Ive been saying since the start of last season this team needs another legit three pointer or penetrator..
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
100%duncan
He has shown flashes esp in making assists. He recognizes open men better than our starting pg. Kawhi is about improving imho, but the team relies on a 37 yr old ginobili and a 34 yr old parker to deliver in the clutch. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Generally speaking, he just makes obvious or reactive passes.
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Originally Posted by
apalisoc_9
The past season enough didnt have this Leonard though.
In any case, Ive been saying since the start of last season this team needs another legit three pointer or penetrator..
This Leonard is mostly an improved shooter/scorer.
Yeah, as I've said ad nauseam, they clearly need a Neal/Belinelli type, but I don't know about another slasher. Ultimately, the inability of their top players to get to the line, is the issue. They have a depth wing who can get to the line, in Simmons, but a fourth wing can only move the needle so much in this area.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TD 21
Generally speaking, he just makes obvious or reactive passes.
This Leonard is mostly an improved shooter/scorer.
Yeah, as I've said ad nauseam, they clearly need a Neal/Belinelli type, but I don't know about another slasher. Ultimately, the inability of their top players to get to the line, is the issue. They have a depth wing who can get to the line, in Simmons, but a fourth wing can only move the needle so much in this area.
They def need another slasher with Manu retirement looming and Parker continues decline. I suggested forunier last year but it is impossible to get him now since Skiles fell inlove with him and is clearly their number 1 SG.
Should have nabbed him when his value was low...
Thats a three pointer, defensive player and a slasher and 22. His minutes were inconsistent with vaughn in the helm and i thought since they drafted hezonja he might be expandable.
Too bad skiles is a good coach and recognized his value before someone.nabbed him
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
apalisoc_9
They def need another slasher with Manu retirement looming and Parker continues decline. I suggested forunier last year but it is impossible to get him now since Skiles fell inlove with him and is clearly their number 1 SG.
Should have nabbed him when his value was low...
Thats a three pointer, defensive player and a slasher and 22. His minutes were inconsistent with vaughn in the helm and i thought since they drafted hezonja he might be expandable.
Too bad skiles is a good coach and recognized his value before someone.nabbed him
Fournier was completely unexpected for me.
Good catch. Unfortunately, like you mention, too late now.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
apalisoc_9
They def need another slasher with Manu retirement looming and Parker continues decline. I suggested forunier last year but it is impossible to get him now since Skiles fell inlove with him and is clearly their number 1 SG.
Should have nabbed him when his value was low...
Thats a three pointer, defensive player and a slasher and 22. His minutes were inconsistent with vaughn in the helm and i thought since they drafted hezonja he might be expandable.
Too bad skiles is a good coach and recognized his value before someone.nabbed him
Right, but I'm talking right now, the only rotation spot up for grabs, is fourth wing and a high percentage, volume three-point shooter, is a greater need.
This team has proven they can overcome not getting to the line, but compounding it with a lack of three-point shooting, is what's likely to be primarily responsible for their demise, should they fail to win the championship (barring injuries, of course).
I don't know if Fournier's value was ever low, but yeah, it's obviously gone up significantly and they'd have no chance at getting him. Long term, second unit slashing/play making, will depend on how Anderson/Simmons develop, more so the latter.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
TD 21
Generally speaking, he just makes obvious or reactive passes.
This Leonard is mostly an improved shooter/scorer.
Yeah, as I've said ad nauseam, they clearly need a Neal/Belinelli type, but I don't know about another slasher. Ultimately, the inability of their top players to get to the line, is the issue. They have a depth wing who can get to the line, in Simmons, but a fourth wing can only move the needle so much in this area.
Well, he doesnt need to playmake like nash or manu. There are many superstars in the league who arent good at making plays for others except for guards obviously. The only superstar wing that is a good playmaker for others is lebron. Your criticism of him is totally unfair.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
1) Good take by OP, in particular Spurs are missing end of game identity*
2) Spurs spacing has been bad lately and game against Houston was no exception and was a major cause of turnovers and difficult offense against the zone defense and aggressive lane jumpers
*3) I haven't decided if Kawhi not taking over in the 4th is by design or out of fear he may fail (hurting his growth) or isn't ready. I could understand why Pop might want to call plays at the end of games that don't rely on Kawahi right now, because he would rather not give the competition opportunity to find ways to stop Kawhi in the playoffs when it counts; but I concede this could just be wishful thinking and it could just be that he feels like he isn't ready and it could hurt his growth.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
wut
1) Good take by OP, in particular Spurs are missing end of game identity*
2) Spurs spacing has been bad lately and game against Houston was no exception and was a major cause of turnovers and difficult offense against the zone defense and aggressive lane jumpers
*3) I haven't decided if Kawhi not taking over in the 4th is by design or out of fear he may fail (hurting his growth) or isn't ready. I could understand why Pop might want to call plays at the end of games that don't rely on Kawahi right now, because he would rather not give the competition opportunity to find ways to stop Kawhi in the playoffs when it counts; but I concede this could just be wishful thinking and it could just be that he feels like he isn't ready and it could hurt his growth.
Zone defense with very long defenders seems to be Spurs kryptonite. It's like the Spurs needs the defense to react and they use the reaction to their advantage.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by Apolicoc_9
Cavs, dubs, LA, OKC are consistent in late game situations.
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Originally Posted by
SAGirl
Agree with you on this.
You're agreeing with that? C'mon... you're smarter than that. If Apolosic says "brief analysis" the ONLY thing you know is: it won't be brief, and it won't be analysis.
The Spurs are sitting on a .813 winning percentage. Other than the Warriors, the BEST of those other teams has a .679 winning percentage. So what the fuck does it mean for them to be "consistent in late game situations", but still lose more games?
The rest of the story is, the Spurs are AVERAGING a blowout. They have a season point differential of +13.1 per game, which means that most of their "late game situations" are garbage time. So by definition, this "analysis" of how they always play at the end of games is based on a stupidly small sample size of just a few games. The truth is, the Spurs performance this season would be considered unbelievably good, if Golden State's performance wasn't so unearthly and over-shadowing them.
One of Apolisuck's conclusions is that Pop can't coach worth a shit? A guy who couldn't get hired to coach a high school team is passing a death sentence on one of the best (if not THE best) coach in the NBA, and one of the 3 or 4 best in history? He says Pop can't draw up a play coming out of a time out? And this makes sense to you? Really?
Everything we've seen out of the Spurs this year, we've seen out of every Championship team in the past. They have bad nights. But then again, I guess there were people on SpursTalk pissing themselves all those other times, too.
Does anyone remember the 2010-2011 season? The Spurs were 51-11 (.822) with Dejuan Blair starting, but got manhandled by the Lakers. Pop took Blair out of the starting lineup and started fiddling with things. (To the delight of a bunch of ST people.) The team went 10-9 for the remainder of the season, and went out in the first round to Memphis. Be careful what you wish for.
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
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Originally Posted by
GSH
You're agreeing with that? C'mon... you're smarter than that. If Apolosic says "brief analysis" the ONLY thing you know is: it won't be brief, and it won't be analysis.
The Spurs are sitting on a .813 winning percentage. Other than the Warriors, the BEST of those other teams has a .679 winning percentage. So what the fuck does it mean for them to be "consistent in late game situations", but still lose more games?
The rest of the story is, the Spurs are AVERAGING a blowout. They have a season point differential of +13.1 per game, which means that most of their "late game situations" are garbage time. So by definition, this "analysis" of how they always play at the end of games is based on a stupidly small sample size of just a few games. The truth is, the Spurs performance this season would be considered unbelievably good, if Golden State's performance wasn't so unearthly and over-shadowing them.
One of Apolisuck's conclusions is that Pop can't coach worth a shit? A guy who couldn't get hired to coach a high school team is passing a death sentence on one of the best (if not THE best) coach in the NBA, and one of the 3 or 4 best in history? He says Pop can't draw up a play coming out of a time out? And this makes sense to you? Really?
Everything we've seen out of the Spurs this year, we've seen out of every Championship team in the past. They have bad nights. But then again, I guess there were people on SpursTalk pissing themselves all those other times, too.
Does anyone remember the 2010-2011 season? The Spurs were 51-11 (.822) with Dejuan Blair starting, but got manhandled by the Lakers. Pop took Blair out of the starting lineup and started fiddling with things. (To the delight of a bunch of ST people.) The team went 10-9 for the remainder of the season, and went out in the first round to Memphis. Be careful what you wish for.
what is your infatuation with Apol? Took your girlfriend or something. :lmao
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Re: Brief Analysis of tonights game and what it means going forward.
I don't give a fuck about not winning close games. In 2014 we had the same problem during the RS and we all know how that turned out.
