A brief analysis of why the offense stagnates at its current state.

Not Kori getting big...the kids. No offense meant.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

If PATFO has any intention of developing him, you would see some exposure come garbage time. He can't even sniff the floor in garbage time. He's pretty much done.

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I tend to agree with your take on Ray. But on the other hand, Patty pretty much sat in the last seat on the bench, waving a towel and cheerleading for his entire first season.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

Don't know. How are Kori and the kiddos? I'm sure they are getting pretty big by now.

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Unlike timvp, I never did give up on the Spurs during the dark years.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Unlike timvp, I never did give up on the Spurs during the dark years.

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Eh, he and Kori adopted a busload of kids at once. Posting about the Spurs is far down the priority list.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Unlike timvp, I never did give up on the Spurs during the dark years.

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It's all good LJ. Sorry I told you to die in a fire. Can't remember if I ever actually apologized. I was pretty drunk tbh.

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Originally Posted by skulls138

I like what Bird said about shooting when he was coach of Pacers. If youre open and youre a shooter, ALWAYS shoot it but also if youre going to do that you have to shoot 500 baskets a day. And thats coming from someone who was an excellent passer.

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Nice quote!!

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Originally Posted by sasaint

I tend to agree with your take on Ray. But on the other hand, Patty pretty much sat in the last seat on the bench, waving a towel and cheerleading for his entire first season.

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Warming the bench isn't evidence that a player will ever become part of the rotation. It's is a necessary but not a sufficient condition.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Like your sense if humor # ceperez!:lol

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Maybe the humor of ceperez is too subtle for me. I missed it. He was stating the position I have seriously advocated from the beginning of the season. The lineup of LMA, Boris, Manu, Kawhi and Patty has a NET RTG of 24.8, which is second among our most frequent 9 lineups. Start with those guys and sub for Manu at the six minute mark. Pick a few opponents and try it.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Warming the bench isn't evidence that a player will ever become part of the rotation. It's is a necessary but not a sufficient condition.

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My point is that warming the bench isn't necessarily an indication that a player is "pretty much done," either. It wasn't in Patty's case, but I agree, it seems to be in Ray's case. But just a feeling, though.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Considering the age of this team, you're not going to have your proverbial "cake and eat it too" with this squad, meaning the offense and defense won't be equally as good on most nights. Historically, elite defensive teams will have offensive struggles because of the energy you have to expend on the defensive end. This is why defensive minded teams tend to use more isolation in the post. When you have an elite defensive team (and it's possible this Spurs team can be historically good defensively), you want to slow the pace down and turn it into a half court affair.

For people wondering why the Spurs starters don't move off the ball more, that is why. No doubt some offensive sets are called to give Kawhi, Green, and even Parker a rest. When you see Kawhi standing around while LMA posts up, that is probably what's happening.

The offense could "look" prettier, but you're not going to be able to have a fluid motion offense and be able to play elite (top 2) defense at the same time. That said, the starting offense could be better, and I think the primary culprit is Danny Green.

Look what happens when you switch out Manu for Green:

http://stats.nba.com/league/lineups/...EVIATION&dir=1

The NET RTG goes from 6.2 to 28.6.

Look at the other 5 man units. All of the weakest feature Danny Green (aside from the last one, which is probably just an anomaly).

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Here's another take-away: the lineup of Boris, DWest, Manu, Patty and Kawhi has a NET RTG of 21.8, while the lineup of Boris, DWest, Manu, Patty and Danny has a NET RTG of -8.6 :wow "Turd Towers" taking a lot of undeserved heat on ST that should be focused on Danny?

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Originally Posted by sasaint

My point is that warming the bench isn't necessarily an indication that a player is "pretty much done," either. It wasn't in Patty's case, but I agree, it seems to be in Ray's case. But just a feeling, though.

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To be honest, we just speculate at ST as to what PATFO is thinking based on the little morsels of data we as fans can extract. I don't know what PATFO sees during practice. We only see what McCallum does on the court and that's just a small slice of the data.

However, we can kind of extrapolate based on how a player is being treated.

We know that Anderson is getting the Tony Parker (i.e. whipping boy) treatment, and we conclude that is a good thing.

We know that Simmons is getting the kid gloves treatment and getting a decent proportion of playing time and we conclude that is a good thing.

Now for Ray McCallum, we heard praise from RC in pre-season. So we all were expecting Cojo like minutes. Unfortunately, he's not even sniffing the court in blow-outs. He's wearing a suit even when Spurs rest their veterans. It is like Pop doesn't even care that he's even in the roster.

The second tell is that he's just like CoJo in that he can't make plays. He absolutely can't pass.

There are a few other players in the Spurs that can't pass (Bonner, Green, Aldridge) but they are excused from their ineptness because they aren't point guards. A point guard must know how to pass, that's just fundamental.

It's pretty clear to me that someone has gone off his/her meds.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Bobo may need to be with the starters for (1) better passing (2) better screens (3) additional 3 point threat (4) a post up game. One of either Duncan or Aldridge needs to move to the second unit.

Spurs are missing Tiago's screens and his passing. That's why it is so messed up now with LMA only exerting effort when he's the focus of the offense. LMA needs a change of attitude or he should be given a change of scenery.

#ceperez

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Before he signed with us, and I saw him play a lot more, I had no idea that LMA was so averse to contact. It shows in his screen setting, his always popping rather than rolling, and in his refusal to bully much lighter defenders like Capela in the Houston game and his complete reliance on fade-aways.

According to the numbers, a very good starting lineup would be LMA, Boris, Manu, Kawhi and Patty (24.8 NET RTG). However, that points up another issue: Manu's age. He could be a token starter, but he obviously cannot absorb starter's minutes. So we would have to sub for him quickly and pick spots for him the rest of the way. Bottom line is that 24.8 NET reflects a lineup that can only be maintained for far less time than you want out of your starters. Probably another reason that Pop seems to be fast-tracking Simmons over Kyle. We need somebody who can offer Manu relief, preserving him for the playoffs, and Simmons is a much better facsimile than Kyle.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Maybe the humor of ceperez is too subtle for me. I missed it. He was stating the position I have seriously advocated from the beginning of the season. The lineup of LMA, Boris, Manu, Kawhi and Patty has a NET RTG of 24.8, which is second among our most frequent 9 lineups. Start with those guys and sub for Manu at the six minute mark. Pick a few opponents and try it.

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I thought his own acknowledgement of the hashtag #ceperez was funny! lol

Its been a few days already that his takes have been hashtagged and maybe ridiculed by some.

He just acknowledged his controversial takes and owned them.

I thought it was funny.

:lol

There are many controversial posters. Heck I should have my own hashtag: #SAGirl (Go Slow mo Go)!!!
:bobo :flag:

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Before he signed with us, and I saw him play a lot more, I had no idea that LMA was so averse to contact. It shows in his screen setting, his always popping rather than rolling, and in his refusal to bully much lighter defenders like Capela in the Houston game and his complete reliance on fade-aways.

According to the numbers, a very good starting lineup would be LMA, Boris, Manu, Kawhi and Patty (24.8 NET RTG). However, that points up another issue: Manu's age. He could be a token starter, but he obviously cannot absorb starter's minutes. So we would have to sub for him quickly and pick spots for him the rest of the way. Bottom line is that 24.8 NET reflects a lineup that can only be maintained for far less time than you want out of your starters. Probably another reason that Pop seems to be fast-tracking Simmons over Kyle. We need somebody who can offer Manu relief, preserving him for the playoffs, and Simmons is a much better facsimile than Kyle.

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Hit the nail on the head about not bullying Capela. C'mon, Capela is like 100lbs lighter than LMA. Guess what LMA does, he scores 6 points in the final half of the game. He can't take the contact? Sheesh!

LMA, Boris, Kawhi, (Simmons), Patty may in fact be the Spurs most potent lineup. However, I like Boban, Boris, Kawhi, Simmons, Patty better. I think LMA is too much of a diva and just doesn't bring the toughness (or in Pop's words, the nasty).

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Originally Posted by ceperez

Hit the nail on the head about not bullying Capela. C'mon, Capela is like 100lbs lighter than LMA. Guess what LMA does, he scores 6 points in the final half of the game. He can't take the contact? Sheesh!

LMA, Boris, Kawhi, (Simmons), Patty may in fact be the Spurs most potent lineup. However, I like Boban, Boris, Kawhi, Simmons, Patty better. I think LMA is too much of a diva and just doesn't bring the toughness (or in Pop's words, the nasty).

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:toast You said it!!! Too bad I didn't CC you on my comments during the Houston game thread. From the opening possession of the game, when LMA refused to back Capela under the basket for a jam, I was hollering that LMA needs Nasty. :lol The Boban Knows!

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Here's another take-away: the lineup of Boris, DWest, Manu, Patty and Kawhi has a NET RTG of 21.8, while the lineup of Boris, DWest, Manu, Patty and Danny has a NET RTG of -8.6 :wow "Turd Towers" taking a lot of undeserved heat on ST that should be focused on Danny?

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I don't know that is is the "turd towers". I had not looked at that statistic, but the eye test completely told me Danny wasn't very good with the bench as it is. He wasn't simply going to get good looks to shoot the 3. The bench is less reliant on Manu to create for others, unless it is with a pass. In actuality all bench players nowadays can get their own shots and have. Patty is doing much more in the offense with the ball and has even taken up isolations to close out quarters (used to be strictly Manu's territory). Whether you have Simmons or Anderson there, they also handle the ball, and pass and create for others (different games but both are capable). Danny doesn't fit with them, ballhandling and passing is a weakness of his, and he has caused TO to a unit that is already prone to them bc they are too unselfish and risky passing at times to begin with.

Quite frankly if you remember from almost day one the dilemma started with bench Danny/play Anderson/Simmons, I always objected that Danny wasn't good with the bench. I didn't bother to back it down, but here are the stats.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I thought his own acknowledgement of the hashtag #ceperez was funny! lol

Its been a few days already that his takes have been hashtagged and maybe ridiculed by some.

He just acknowledged his controversial takes and owned them.

I thought it was funny.

:lol

There are many controversial posters. Heck I should have my own hashtag: #SAGirl (Go Slow mo Go)!!!
:bobo :flag:

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Tbh, hashtags and such - even some ST acronyms - pretty much escape me.

#sasaint (geezer)

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Maybe the humor of ceperez is too subtle for me. I missed it. He was stating the position I have seriously advocated from the beginning of the season. The lineup of LMA, Boris, Manu, Kawhi and Patty has a NET RTG of 24.8, which is second among our most frequent 9 lineups. Start with those guys and sub for Manu at the six minute mark. Pick a few opponents and try it.

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The really innovative lineup was the one I just saw against the Nuggets. Boris was pounding the paint with Boban on the otherside sucking in defenders. I honestly think Boris is the best playmaker now in the Spurs. Manu is just too erratic a player.

The neat thing about this play is that you got 3 opponents defending the paint against 2 players. Now you have versatile players on the wing that can hit the open 3.

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Originally Posted by GSH

It's pretty clear to me that someone has gone off his/her meds.

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:lol

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Originally Posted by ceperez

The really innovative lineup was the one I just saw against the Nuggets. Boris was pounding the paint with Boban on the otherside sucking in defenders. I honestly think Boris is the best playmaker now in the Spurs. Manu is just too erratic a player.

The neat thing about this play is that you got 3 opponents defending the paint against 2 players. Now you have versatile players on the wing that can hit the open 3.

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I didn't notice that particular lineup or its ramifications, as you did. But I hope we see Boban a lot more going forward. For weeks I have been wanting to give him a "baptism of fire" against the likes of Dwight, Jordan other one-dimensional bigs. Give the guy a shot. If it doesn't work, make a substitution. We are not obligated to stick with anybody. I do not understand why Pop hasn't tried that. Perhaps that is one of his CIA strategies Pop is saving for the playoffs. :lol

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Originally Posted by GSH

It's pretty clear to me that someone has gone off his/her meds.

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I'll bite. Me or ceperez... or both?

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Originally Posted by sasaint

I didn't notice that particular lineup or its ramifications, as you did. But I hope we see Boban a lot more going forward. For weeks I have been wanting to give him a "baptism of fire" against the likes of Dwight, Jordan other one-dimensional bigs. Give the guy a shot. If it doesn't work, make a substitution. We are not obligated to stick with anybody. I do not understand why Pop hasn't tried that. Perhaps that is one of his CIA strategies Pop is saving for the playoffs. :lol

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I don't think we should be too concerned about Boban not getting enough burn. He's a European player that may not be used to the number of games played in the NBA. Best to keep his fresh come playoff time.

The good sign though is that his game is improving despite not getting a lot of court time.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I don't know that is is the "turd towers". I had not looked at that statistic, but the eye test completely told me Danny wasn't very good with the bench as it is. He wasn't simply going to get good looks to shoot the 3. The bench is less reliant on Manu to create for others, unless it is with a pass. In actuality all bench players nowadays can get their own shots and have. Patty is doing much more in the offense with the ball and has even taken up isolations to close out quarters (used to be strictly Manu's territory). Whether you have Simmons or Anderson there, they also handle the ball, and pass and create for others (different games but both are capable). Danny doesn't fit with them, ballhandling and passing is a weakness of his, and he has caused TO to a unit that is already prone to them bc they are too unselfish and risky passing at times to begin with.

Quite frankly if you remember from almost day one the dilemma started with bench Danny/play Anderson/Simmons, I always objected that Danny wasn't good with the bench. I didn't bother to back it down, but here are the stats.

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Seems like playmakers is who he used to fit best with, and should therefore fit well with these guys. That is a real paradox that I don't get.

Patty has, indeed, expanded his game - with results that are mixed, but still much better than Danny's results.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I don't know that is is the "turd towers". I had not looked at that statistic, but the eye test completely told me Danny wasn't very good with the bench as it is. He wasn't simply going to get good looks to shoot the 3. The bench is less reliant on Manu to create for others, unless it is with a pass. In actuality all bench players nowadays can get their own shots and have. Patty is doing much more in the offense with the ball and has even taken up isolations to close out quarters (used to be strictly Manu's territory). Whether you have Simmons or Anderson there, they also handle the ball, and pass and create for others (different games but both are capable). Danny doesn't fit with them, ballhandling and passing is a weakness of his, and he has caused TO to a unit that is already prone to them bc they are too unselfish and risky passing at times to begin with.

Quite frankly if you remember from almost day one the dilemma started with bench Danny/play Anderson/Simmons, I always objected that Danny wasn't good with the bench. I didn't bother to back it down, but here are the stats.

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Where are the stats?