More Boban, Less D-Worst

you do know Boban is a center and West is a PF right?

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Originally Posted by Raven

you do know Boban is a center and West is a PF right?

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No. When West and Diaw are paired together, West is a Center. Or, not really. Nor is Diaw. That's the point. One of them is playing center. And shouldn't be. It's working ok, thus far, because they're both extremely skilled players, especially the passing. Diaw is a known savant passer, like a PF Manu, but even for someone like myself that liked West before, getting to see his passing ability on a nightly basis has brought an added appreciation. Of course, they both have other great skills, too.

This makes them competitive on a nightly basis, and only against OKC, and CHI, and maybe one or two others do they really get schooled due to being undersized.

Boban may help in those cases, but there are cases for bringing him along slowly as have been made.

High quality problems we have.

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Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016

He'd be useful against Big Baby, but little else on that Clippers squad. My expectations were a rich man's Malik Rose. He looks worse than 2005 Malik out there most of the time, particularly on the boards and hustle plays.

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What stupid expectations you had considering West's game has always been completely different than Malik. West's game on the offensive end has always been about hitting the midrange shot along with fadeaways and turn around jumpshots. Malik had no jumpshot it was one of the biggest reasons why he would get into Pop's dog house. Malik's offensive game consisted of getting garbage buckets points and relying solely off of his athleticism to score points. West is already a much better passer than Rose ever was considering Rose was a turnover machine.West struggled earlier in the year but now fits in perfectly. West is scoring nearly 6 points game on above 50 percent shooting along with getting close to 4 rebounds in only 16 minutes of playing time. Despite his age he is still capable of getting 10-15 points game and 6-8 rebounds when given starter minutes. West is a good asset to have because it allows the Spurs to rest Duncan against average to shitty teams. To say he is worse than 2005 Rose is ludicrous on your part and it shows that you really don't understand the game.

You are trashing West not on his effectiveness but because he took minutes away from a guy you want to see play badly which is stupid.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Can you tell me how you see the situation with Anderson? Of our two new wings, he impacts the defensive end the most. His length is very disruptive and he has good instincts and good hands. He's capable of making defensive plays without fouling and negotiates screens very well, he has good footwork.

I'll say this for Simmons, he's dedicated and has improved his awareness and help instincts. His athleticism helps him stay in front of guards, and he's strong enough that if he gets a switch, he will offer resistance and not get backed down. I like him, but he fouls way too much. He doesn't go over or under screens well bc he's too wild, with too much energy pushing or getting arm tangled with the ball handler or he's pushed through screens. For a guy playing so few minutes, he fouls too much. It may be something he can cut down with more experience, but some guys are just foul prone. I am unsure on Simmons yet.

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Like I said, I like him and think people are way too hard on him, but then again these are the same people who said Kawhi would never be more than a 3 and D type player.

Anderson is definitely a specific type of player, and its pretty close to the Diaw mold. He plays good defense down low where its all footwork, as he's a savy player. His ability to see over people and his reach makes him such a good playmaker, as he can get his shot on anyone and pass around anyone. On defense, this helps him too. As everyone knows, he has really slow feet but his footwork makes up for it. He knows how to position himself with leverage to be able to bother people with his length. Much of what you already analyzed is what I see too. I think he can further develop as well. He needs more game time experience at the highest level, as the d leaguers won't abuse his mistakes as much as any NBA player will.
They're being real hard on him and pulling him as soon as he makes any mistakes, but he's a coaches son so this is probably normal to him and doesn't seem to bother his confidence as he understands why. He has a ton of confidence, and the tools to be effective in the NBA, I think the only thing missing is experience. I really want to see him in extended minutes for more games consistently. I'd like to see some small ball with him at the pf position, and can't help but think Pop will try it on the warriors.

Simmons is the opposite when it comes to grooming, and I think he needs to be catered more so in his development. Pop is much more encouraging and opportunistic with him and I think it has every thing to buying into the system. Kyle likes to Manu it up and break from the system, and gamble. Simmons does exactly what he's told. So much so, that he hasn't been his usual aggressive self in finishing at the rim. I think that's the biggest thing tho, Simmons plays his spot more accurately of what pop wants than Kyle. Pop likes to break people until they get over themselves and sell out to the system. I believe he's doing that with Kyle.

I don't get the West criticism? He's +2.0 RPM this season.

Damn OP, you continue to let your emotions get the best of you.

Diaw against Draymond in the western finals shall be epic

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Originally Posted by Mnky

Like I said, I like him and think people are way too hard on him, but then again these are the same people who said Kawhi would never be more than a 3 and D type player.

Anderson is definitely a specific type of player, and its pretty close to the Diaw mold. He plays good defense down low where its all footwork, as he's a savy player. His ability to see over people and his reach makes him such a good playmaker, as he can get his shot on anyone and pass around anyone. On defense, this helps him too. As everyone knows, he has really slow feet but his footwork makes up for it. He knows how to position himself with leverage to be able to bother people with his length. Much of what you already analyzed is what I see too. I think he can further develop as well. He needs more game time experience at the highest level, as the d leaguers won't abuse his mistakes as much as any NBA player will.
They're being real hard on him and pulling him as soon as he makes any mistakes, but he's a coaches son so this is probably normal to him and doesn't seem to bother his confidence as he understands why. He has a ton of confidence, and the tools to be effective in the NBA, I think the only thing missing is experience. I really want to see him in extended minutes for more games consistently. I'd like to see some small ball with him at the pf position, and can't help but think Pop will try it on the warriors.

Simmons is the opposite when it comes to grooming, and I think he needs to be catered more so in his development. Pop is much more encouraging and opportunistic with him and I think it has every thing to buying into the system. Kyle likes to Manu it up and break from the system, and gamble. Simmons does exactly what he's told. So much so, that he hasn't been his usual aggressive self in finishing at the rim. I think that's the biggest thing tho, Simmons plays his spot more accurately of what pop wants than Kyle. Pop likes to break people until they get over themselves and sell out to the system. I believe he's doing that with Kyle.

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Thanks for sharing!
Good analysis on both.
Also .. you are right. Can't pay attention to some guys around here, Kawhi is the best example. You can never fully tell how far a young guy will go, based on his first few outings with the Spurs, specially the younger they are and how much they still have to develop and grow. It really depends how much untapped talent there is there to begin with and the guy's work ethic. Some guys are limited and won't improve much (the famous limited ceiling), but the youngest a guy is when he gets to the Spurs, the more likely he still has room to grow, and you have to look at the talent that young guy had when we got him to begin with.

I agree with your assessment on both wings. Kyle has an intangible in that he's a really smart bball player, and he is really competitive. It would not appear that he is competitive, bc his style of play is so laid back, but he's won a lot of games in his short career at every level, and those were games where he had a prominent role. He was not being carried by anyone to those wins.

Not much gets said about his leadership quality, but the most important impact he had in that summer league squad was his leadership. He got guys organized. They ran a whole bunch of sets for him, not even bc the Spurs were molding him to be a scorer (it would help him long run), but for SL purposes, he gave that team structure in sets and such. Several media people commented at the time, that when he sat, the team kind of fell apart. The Spurs were the only summer league team running sets consistently (even if they were the same or simple variations of the same couple of sets), and you could see it specially in how disorganized the Suns SL team looked (with a lot more talent and some NBA players in it) vs the Spurs. A whole lot of that was on Becky Hammon specially, but when a game is played, action is live and you need guys to get to their spots, the leader of that team was Kyle.

He just knew what they were doing and were supposed to be doing and he rallied them on defense. Becky said as much and there is a video feature about his leadership at the time in spurs.com. Then you look at his background. He had always been the leader of winning teams. The impact he had on both ends, never known as a defensive player of any sort, he would be sneaky and come up with a complete stat line in his teams. In a team with Lavine and Adams, he was the best player unquestionably. He was a PG, but not bc he was fast or was going to do things traditionally. He was as unorthodox as they come, but (1) he is an unselfish player and would get the ball to the right people and moreover, he enjoyed setting others up, (2) he has a tremendous court vision and was not afraid to pass (maybe the too risky Manu-like passes are a weakness, but what other time to develop that than when you are young), (3) he is a smart bball player, he would know what to do in the pressure situations, and (4) he would hold others accountable, and be really competitive and fiery, without getting animosity from guys toward him. Guys who played with him (Shabazz Muhammed, Adams, Bryce Alford, etc) have said they really enjoyed playing with him and for Shabazz I read somewhere that he said Kyle was his favorite player ever to play together with. Just looking at that, I think he has a tremendous upside beyond what we see right now. I see him as taking baby steps at this point.

Obviously, season starts and he's a kid among men now. First he's tentative and not doing much, staying within the system and more like hidden by it than anything (it is true his best assets are sort of redundant with Manu and Boris there, who are vets and know better). But also, if you want to use him right you have to give him some rope to make reads of his own. In reality, you can't really script Manu, or Boris for example. A lot of plays they make are scripted, but what makes them really special, unpredictable and hard to defend and account for, is maybe the 25-30% of plays they make when they see something developing on their own.

I think Simmons overall just allows the bench to push the tempo a whole lot. He will be able to get one or two easy transition baskets a game regularly, (very much Corey Brewer style), and even when he doesn't, the threat of his basket running the floor, opens opportunities for those running behind, and maybe causes a mismatch or two, (which is Boris' bread and butter), and he can really pass the ball well. Therefore, I see him already being a much better fit with this current bench, and having a better impact overall right away, but with a lower ceiling since I don't project him developing the leadership or BB savy to take a lead role eventually in the bench. He's the perfect roleplayer though.

Long term though, when Manu isn't there, you still want Kyle to develop bc of his leadership qualities more than anything else. Very different player, but in his own way, he is so unorthodox that he can and will get his shots when the team needs it, but mostly will find guys on their spots once he develops that go beyond the scripted, and will be able to find Simmons in transition opportunities to score that now Manu is probably the one making those passes. Let's not forget Boban's first NBA basket in preseason was a lob throw from Kyle and the two of them had a lot of chemistry before Boban was even breaking out for us. Kyle has a lot more potential than we have seen (maybe than we are likely to even see this season, due to the vets still being leaders and him needing experience and improvement to step into bigger roles in the future.)

Anyways, I am rambling. Really excited to watch the trio of Boban/Kyle/Simmons this season and follow their development with Pop and the team. It has been more interesting for me than Lamarcus' adaptation quite frankly.
:bobo

I really liked your observations about Kyle. A great deal of his value is, indeed, in intangibles - especially his leadership skill. That alone would justify Pop's paying special attention to his development. We are on the verge of losing a whole generation of team leaders, and we very much need one for the future. I do not believe LMA is suited to leadership either by his on-court performance or his off-court presence. Kawhi is not really suited to vocal leadership or off court leadership. His leadership is by example, in the Timmy mold. Kyle has shown the ability, at least in SL, to be a more demonstrative and vocal leader.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Thanks for sharing!
Good analysis on both.
Also .. you are right. Can't pay attention to some guys around here, Kawhi is the best example. You can never fully tell how far a young guy will go, based on his first few outings with the Spurs, specially the younger they are and how much they still have to develop and grow. It really depends how much untapped talent there is there to begin with and the guy's work ethic. Some guys are limited and won't improve much (the famous limited ceiling), but the youngest a guy is when he gets to the Spurs, the more likely he still has room to grow, and you have to look at the talent that young guy had when we got him to begin with.

I agree with your assessment on both wings. Kyle has an intangible in that he's a really smart bball player, and he is really competitive. It would not appear that he is competitive, bc his style of play is so laid back, but he's won a lot of games in his short career at every level, and those were games where he had a prominent role. He was not being carried by anyone to those wins.

Not much gets said about his leadership quality, but the most important impact he had in that summer league squad was his leadership. He got guys organized. They ran a whole bunch of sets for him, not even bc the Spurs were molding him to be a scorer (it would help him long run), but for SL purposes, he gave that team structure in sets and such. Several media people commented at the time, that when he sat, the team kind of fell apart. The Spurs were the only summer league team running sets consistently (even if they were the same or simple variations of the same couple of sets), and you could see it specially in how disorganized the Suns SL team looked (with a lot more talent and some NBA players in it) vs the Spurs. A whole lot of that was on Becky Hammon specially, but when a game is played, action is live and you need guys to get to their spots, the leader of that team was Kyle.

He just knew what they were doing and were supposed to be doing and he rallied them on defense. Becky said as much and there is a video feature about his leadership at the time in spurs.com. Then you look at his background. He had always been the leader of winning teams. The impact he had on both ends, never known as a defensive player of any sort, he would be sneaky and come up with a complete stat line in his teams. In a team with Lavine and Adams, he was the best player unquestionably. He was a PG, but not bc he was fast or was going to do things traditionally. He was as unorthodox as they come, but (1) he is an unselfish player and would get the ball to the right people and moreover, he enjoyed setting others up, (2) he has a tremendous court vision and was not afraid to pass (maybe the too risky Manu-like passes are a weakness, but what other time to develop that than when you are young), (3) he is a smart bball player, he would know what to do in the pressure situations, and (4) he would hold others accountable, and be really competitive and fiery, without getting animosity from guys toward him. Guys who played with him (Shabazz Muhammed, Adams, Bryce Alford, etc) have said they really enjoyed playing with him and for Shabazz I read somewhere that he said Kyle was his favorite player ever to play together with. Just looking at that, I think he has a tremendous upside beyond what we see right now. I see him as taking baby steps at this point.

Obviously, season starts and he's a kid among men now. First he's tentative and not doing much, staying within the system and more like hidden by it than anything (it is true his best assets are sort of redundant with Manu and Boris there, who are vets and know better). But also, if you want to use him right you have to give him some rope to make reads of his own. In reality, you can't really script Manu, or Boris for example. A lot of plays they make are scripted, but what makes them really special, unpredictable and hard to defend and account for, is maybe the 25-30% of plays they make when they see something developing on their own.

I think Simmons overall just allows the bench to push the tempo a whole lot. He will be able to get one or two easy transition baskets a game regularly, (very much Corey Brewer style), and even when he doesn't, the threat of his basket running the floor, opens opportunities for those running behind, and maybe causes a mismatch or two, (which is Boris' bread and butter), and he can really pass the ball well. Therefore, I see him already being a much better fit with this current bench, and having a better impact overall right away, but with a lower ceiling since I don't project him developing the leadership or BB savy to take a lead role eventually in the bench. He's the perfect roleplayer though.

Long term though, when Manu isn't there, you still want Kyle to develop bc of his leadership qualities more than anything else. Very different player, but in his own way, he is so unorthodox that he can and will get his shots when the team needs it, but mostly will find guys on their spots once he develops that go beyond the scripted, and will be able to find Simmons in transition opportunities to score that now Manu is probably the one making those passes. Let's not forget Boban's first NBA basket in preseason was a lob throw from Kyle and the two of them had a lot of chemistry before Boban was even breaking out for us. Kyle has a lot more potential than we have seen (maybe than we are likely to even see this season, due to the vets still being leaders and him needing experience and improvement to step into bigger roles in the future.)

Anyways, I am rambling. Really excited to watch the trio of Boban/Kyle/Simmons this season and follow their development with Pop and the team. It has been more interesting for me than Lamarcus' adaptation quite frankly.
:bobo

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Ctrl + F "kyle"


7 matches

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Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016

Ctrl + F "kyle"


7 matches

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:wakeup
I don't know why it bothers you so much who I like. You should be so indifferent.

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Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs

Good thing the Spurs wrapped up Simmons for the cheap for 3 years.

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I thought Simmons signed a 2 year deal? A third year would be amazingly fortunate.

The good old Gary Neal three year bargain deal.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I don't get the West criticism? He's +2.0 RPM this season.

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Because OP is a retarded Chicken Little. You should check him out in a game thread one day. Every basket made or missed is life or death. He also hates David West for some reason.

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Originally Posted by NASpurs

Because OP is a retarded Chicken Little. You should check him out in a game thread one day. Every basket made or missed is life or death. He also hates David West for some reason.

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I hate David West because he consistently gets owned by anyone 6'9" or taller in the paint.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

:wakeup
I don't know why it bothers you so much who I like. You should be so indifferent.

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He's salty.

Good post, one thing that young players need, is playing time. No one of them play to their potential without it, I hope Kyle gets more time now, rather than later. Especially against better competition. We know he looks good against lesser.

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Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016

I hate David West because he consistently gets owned by anyone 6'9" or taller in the paint.

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You probably should hate LMA more because his numbers are much worse that David West:

Let's look at Defensive Plus Minus:

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

Duncan leads the league at 6.13
Leonard at #4 at 4.76
West at #17 at 3.04
Anderson at #39 at 2.27
...
Aldridge #74 at 1.58
oh.... BTW offensive plus minus .... Aldridge rank is #208.

Aldridge is hurt in DRPM because he's benchmarked mostly against Timmy, who's #1 in the rankings.

Not an opinion one way or the other on LMA, but just a statement of fact on how the stat works.

We should get a nice helping of Boban against Phoenix theyre in complete disarray.

^ All that tells me is that we're fucked when/if we lose Duncan for good.

:lol Millennial Messiah strikes again