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Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
http://espn.go.com/blog/san-antonio-...novic-hes-tall
Quote:
LaMarcus Aldridge played nine years in the NBA before coming to San Antonio. Now that you've had him for a while, is there anything different or better than what you expected from him?
Popovich: I've said this before: he's a better defender and rebounder than I was expecting. We all knew he could score in a variety of ways. But he's a better defender and rebounder; changes shots. He's really a big factor in our defense being better this year.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Pop wants him to concentrate on defense, because he's confident that Aldridge will get the system sometime during the Rideo Road trip. Still, it's pretty awesome to see Aldridge blossom under Pop as an above average defender. If I had to give him a grade on his defensive effort so far in the season I'd give him a B+
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Anyone who's been watching the games has to be impressed with his defense so far. Duncan's overall defense has improved as a result of that trust imo
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
We are #1 in defense right now....it's a big deal!
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Pretty much what we've all be stating on here.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jdiggy0424
Pop wants him to concentrate on defense, because he's confident that Aldridge will get the system sometime during the Rideo Road trip. Still, it's pretty awesome to see Aldridge blossom under Pop as an above average defender. If I had to give him a grade on his defensive effort so far in the season I'd give him a B+
One on one post defense is quite good. It's his help defense and his perimeter defense that is suspect.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
LMA is arguably the best power forward in the NBA
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
One on one post defense is quite good. It's his help defense and his perimeter defense that is suspect.
New system that lets players free style, makes it difficult to know who to rotate too. Kawhis switch changes every game, some players he switches on and some he does and then sometime he just doesn't make the play that further confuses things.
Parker does the same thing on his assignments, constantly stepping the wrong direction causing LA or Tim or west to have to recover their bad play.
The bigs get the credit for the blown assignment but it's the primary defenders job to be consistent so the big knows who to trail. Much harder for a big to recover.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
I'm impressed at his transition defense these days. Watch him if one of our shots hits the rim, and he's out on the elbow. He hauls ass to get back to the paint.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
It's scary when this team hits its 5th gear. When Danny and LMA start to impact the offense watch out.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
I said he was a good defender after like 1 or 2 games. :bobo
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Is there any real seriousness in that interview?
"I just knew he was tall."
"We don't practice much."
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
More impressed with his rebounding so far . . .
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Also, Pop must be talking sarcastically here or has a very low bar.
Let's look at Defensive Plus Minus:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM
Duncan leads the league at 6.13
Leonard at #4 at 4.76
West at #17 at 3.04
Anderson at #39 at 2.27
...
Aldridge #74 at 1.58
oh.... BTW offensive plus minus .... Aldridge rank is #208... swell for a max player, absolutely nice.
So maybe Pop was sarcastically comparing him with his offensive stats. He's a better defensive player than he is an offensive player. But that bar is pretty low!!
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Someone's mad that Pop pissed on his latest shtick.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mel_13
Someone's mad that Pop pissed on his latest shtick.
Heh.... what does Pop fucking know? If he had the goods, he'd be up in here posting.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
Also, Pop must be talking sarcastically here or has a very low bar.
Let's look at Defensive Plus Minus:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM
Duncan leads the league at 6.13
Leonard at #4 at 4.76
West at #17 at 3.04
Anderson at #39 at 2.27
...
Aldridge #74 at 1.58
oh.... BTW offensive plus minus .... Aldridge rank is #208... swell for a max player, absolutely nice.
So maybe Pop was sarcastically comparing him with his offensive stats. He's a better defensive player than he is an offensive player. But that bar is pretty low!!
:lol. West>Aldridge is pretty telling of the invalidity of this stat. Any +\- stat is pretty generic and meaningless.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
LOL at #ceperez hating so hard :lol
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Lamarcus has already played 915 minutes this year through 40% of the season, and that's with Pop managing his minutes. He's on pace for ~2,275 minutes.
Compare that to Splitter's 1,030 last year (only made 52 games). That forced the team to give 1,120 minutes of Baynes and 936 minutes to Bonner last year.
The Spurs were only able to get 18 minutes per game out of Tiago last year in the playoffs, which forced Baynes into action for 40 total minutes during the series. We all know how that turned out. Even though Tiago played solid D, his inability to stay healthy OR play long stretches (or for that matter, stretch the floor while out there) limited his effectiveness. It bit the team in the ass in the playoffs because the team had to find someone else to throw at Blake for 20 minutes a game.
Aldridge played 41 minutes a night in the crazy HOU-POR series a few years ago (three OT games) and still had something in the tank against the Spurs the next round, though his shooting % went down a bit. With less of the burden, imagine having a guy who you can easily pencil in for 2x Tiago's minutes come the playoffs and is more matchup proof. You really can eliminate the fourth big from the rotation at that point.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
I'm loving LMA's work on the defensive end this year, I wasn't expecting him to be anywhere near as good as Splitter there, much less far superior.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
baseline bum
I'm loving LMA's work on the defensive end this year, I wasn't expecting him to be anywhere near as good as Splitter there, much less far superior.
Completely unexpected. I thought they would loose a little bit, but gain on the offensive end. It’s amazing how he has bought in defensively (and has the instincts). so far more durable than Splitter...
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
The casual fans always look at offensive numbers before defensive effort... If Aldridge was averaging 20 ppg with a 47 FG% and playing Harden-like defense, the Spurs would a much less successful team. Instead he's rebounding and blocking shots at a better rate than his career averages while playing fewer minutes than his career average.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cjw
Lamarcus has already played 915 minutes this year through 40% of the season, and that's with Pop managing his minutes. He's on pace for ~2,275 minutes.
Compare that to Splitter's 1,030 last year (only made 52 games). That forced the team to give 1,120 minutes of Baynes and 936 minutes to Bonner last year.
The Spurs were only able to get 18 minutes per game out of Tiago last year in the playoffs, which forced Baynes into action for 40 total minutes during the series. We all know how that turned out. Even though Tiago played solid D, his inability to stay healthy OR play long stretches (or for that matter, stretch the floor while out there) limited his effectiveness. It bit the team in the ass in the playoffs because the team had to find someone else to throw at Blake for 20 minutes a game.
Aldridge played 41 minutes a night in the crazy HOU-POR series a few years ago (three OT games) and still had something in the tank against the Spurs the next round, though his shooting % went down a bit. With less of the burden, imagine having a guy who you can easily pencil in for 2x Tiago's minutes come the playoffs and is more matchup proof. You really can eliminate the fourth big from the rotation at that point.
Which is why fretting over the Diaw/West combo is pointless. Pop can make it disappear when necessary.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Bones
The casual fans always look at offensive numbers before defensive effort... If Aldridge was averaging 20 ppg with a 47 FG% and playing Harden-like defense, the Spurs would a much less successful team. Instead he's rebounding and blocking shots at a better rate than his career averages while playing fewer minutes than his career average.
Agree with this not only as it concerns LMA, but in general all players. If someone doesn't have highlight offensive plays, fir the casual fan he's worthless (someone calling DWorst familiar? Shifting on Anderson, who's turned out much better this season than ppl thought, etc.?)
To me LMA offensively has been streaky and obviously has at times struggled with what Pop wants having some underwhelming offensive games. I'd say he's very dependent on Tony and Td to set him up. When Tim rests he misses a significant partner and when Tony struggles, it affects everyone in that first unit. He hasn't been consistently good on his post ups and that is what Pop draws up for him in crunch time. Not going to say he's been good there except the early season Boston game.
We haven't seen too much action between Kawhi and LMA either and maybe that is being saved for other teams. We can only speculate on this.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
baseline bum
I'm loving LMA's work on the defensive end this year, I wasn't expecting him to be anywhere near as good as Splitter there, much less far superior.
He's superior to broke-ass Splitter, yes. But pre-TSOB Splitter was the best defender on a team with Kawhi and Duncan on it.
I consider LMA vs Splitter to be like Kobe/Lebron vs Bowen. When locked in LMA, Kobe and James have/had the talent to be elite defenders and show/ed it in big match-ups. But they're just going to completely zone out for possessions at a time (or seasons at a time in Kobe's case). If the Spurs needed a stop and I could have 2013-2014 Splitter or 2015-2016 LMA, I wouldn't have a tough decision at all.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Bones
The casual fans always look at offensive numbers before defensive effort... If Aldridge was averaging 20 ppg with a 47 FG% and playing Harden-like defense, the Spurs would a much less successful team. Instead he's rebounding and blocking shots at a better rate than his career averages while playing fewer minutes than his career average.
This!
People LOVE to focus on PPG (which can be a very overrated stat).
Aldridge has been a BEAST this year!
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mel_13
Which is why fretting over the Diaw/West combo is pointless. Pop can make it disappear when necessary.
And it hasn't even been that bad ... +39 in 270 minutes / 540 possessions. That's +6.9 points over 48 minutes, or +7.2 points per 100 possessions.
It's not playable against some lineups, but definitely something the Spurs can tread water with during the regular season. Come the playoffs, Aldridge for 35 minutes and Duncan for 29 minutes would allow one to be on the floor at all times, and them to play together for about 20 MPG. And that's probably conservative on the minute count.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Feeling pretty damn lucky right now. PATFO did a hell of job this summer! Life is good! :flag:
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cjw
And it hasn't even been that bad ... +39 in 270 minutes / 540 possessions. That's +6.9 points over 48 minutes, or +7.2 points per 100 possessions.
It's not playable against some lineups, but definitely something the Spurs can tread water with during the regular season. Come the playoffs, Aldridge for 35 minutes and Duncan for 29 minutes would allow one to be on the floor at all times, and them to play together for about 20 MPG. And that's probably conservative on the minute count.
Exactly.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
LMA is as good as Splitter on defense and is a threat on offense. You don't have to substitute him out and I doubt you'll ever see him airball a FT. He was a great pick up for the Spurs and still has more improvement left in him. If or when he gets going on the offensive side, look out. I wonder if Tim's knee is really sore or if they are trying to get LMA to shoot more without deferring.
No Morris or Bledsoe tonight right?
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tmtcsc
LMA is as good as Splitter on defense and is a threat on offense. You don't have to substitute him out and I doubt you'll ever see him airball a FT. He was a great pick up for the Spurs and still has more improvement left in him. If or when he gets going on the offensive side, look out. I wonder if Tim's knee is really sore or if they are trying to get LMA to shoot more without deferring.
No Morris or Bledsoe tonight right?
Morris will be available. Bledsoe is done for the season.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
exstatic
:lol. West>Aldridge is pretty telling of the invalidity of this stat. Any +\- stat is pretty generic and meaningless.
No, it's a valid stat; you just don't understand it.
Facts:
- RPM (DRPM + ORPM) does not measure how well a player has performed, offensively or defensively, this season.
- RPM is based on data from previous seasons.
- RPM is designed to predict how well a player will perform based on their own history.
- RPM doesn't represent large increases in performance well; it looks for trends over time.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
No, it's a valid stat; you just don't understand it.
Facts:
- RPM (DRPM + ORPM) does not measure how well a player has performed, offensively or defensively, this season.
- RPM is based on data from previous seasons.
- RPM is designed to predict how well a player will perform based on their own history.
- RPM doesn't represent large increases in performance well; it looks for trends over time.
So, it's completely useless to show how LMA is performing on either side of the court for just THIS year with the Spurs, no? Because that's how he was trying to use it. The ORtg and DRtg stats I posted were for just THIS season for LMA with the Spurs.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
exstatic
So, it's completely useless to show how LMA is performing on either side of the court for just THIS year with the Spurs, no? Because that's how he was trying to use it. The ORtg and DRtg stats I posted were for just THIS season for LMA with the Spurs.
Well, essentially, the stat uses past data to predict future impact. The "usefulness" of that is up to interpretation, IMO.
That said, I'd say there's a good chance that the poster you were quoting doesn't understand the stat at all. D-West has likely been a better defender than LMA over the course of his career, which doesn't say much about his current impact with the Spurs. Conversely, LMA has likely seen an increase in defensive impact recently, which DRPM is a poor indicator of.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
Well, essentially, the stat uses past data to predict future impact. The "usefulness" of that is up to interpretation, IMO.
That said, I'd say there's a good chance that the poster you were quoting doesn't understand the stat at all. D-West has likely been a better defender than LMA over the course of his career, which doesn't say much about his current impact with the Spurs. Conversely, LMA has likely seen an increase in defensive impact recently, which DRPM is a poor indicator of.
I think we might agree then that since the thread is about PATFO being surprised at his defense since signing here, the stat that ceperez posted might not be relevant to the issue being discussed.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
No, it's a valid stat; you just don't understand it.
Facts:
- RPM (DRPM + ORPM) does not measure how well a player has performed, offensively or defensively, this season.
- RPM is based on data from previous seasons.
- RPM is designed to predict how well a player will perform based on their own history.
- RPM doesn't represent large increases in performance well; it looks for trends over time.
It's only useful in retrospect. And only if you are willing to crow over the times it looks good, and throw out the times it looks bad. In other words, it's every bit as useful as a generic, newspaper horoscope.
At the considerable risk of quoting Billy Madison: "... what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
No, it's a valid stat; you just don't understand it.
Facts:
- RPM (DRPM + ORPM) does not measure how well a player has performed, offensively or defensively, this season.
- RPM is based on data from previous seasons.
- RPM is designed to predict how well a player will perform based on their own history.
- RPM doesn't represent large increases in performance well; it looks for trends over time.
What are you talking about?
Here's the definition from ESPN:
ORPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team offensive performance, measured in points scored per 100 offensive possessions
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors
In short it takes into account TEAMATES, OPPONENTS and ADDITIONAL FACTORS from likely the SEASON where those numbers are coming from. It would be totally ridiculous if it was for a season where he's playing in a different team against different teams. What a load of B.S.! Show me a reference of your *interpretation* of what DRPM means?
Here's a more detailed description:
The metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach. ... The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time.
It is an advanced metric that is nowhere near what you just described. Talk about complete B.S.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GSH
It's only useful in retrospect. And only if you are willing to crow over the times it looks good, and throw out the times it looks bad. In other words, it's every bit as useful as a generic, newspaper horoscope.
At the considerable risk of quoting Billy Madison: "... what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Yeah right, backing up a definition that is complete B.S. You got zero credibility in my book.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
What are you talking about?
Here's the definition from ESPN:
ORPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team offensive performance, measured in points scored per 100 offensive possessions
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors
In short it takes into account TEAMATES, OPPONENTS and ADDITIONAL FACTORS from likely the SEASON where those numbers are coming from. It would be totally ridiculous if it was for a season where he's playing in a different team against different teams. What a load of B.S.! Show me a reference of your *interpretation* of what DRPM means?
Here's a more detailed description:
The metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach. ... The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time.
It is an advanced metric that is nowhere near what you just described. Talk about complete B.S.
True or False: Does RPM use data from previous seasons?
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
True or False: Does RPM use data from previous seasons?
It does, but it is not as simplistic as how you make it out to be. I don't think you have the statistical or mathematical education to even begin to comprehend what it means.
Anyway, read: https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.c...al-plus-minus/
I don't think you comprehend what "Bayesian prior" means so I'm not going to waste time explaining how your over simplified B.S. definition is wrong.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GSH
It's only useful in retrospect. And only if you are willing to crow over the times it looks good, and throw out the times it looks bad. In other words, it's every bit as useful as a generic, newspaper horoscope.
At the considerable risk of quoting Billy Madison: "... what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Google "how does ESPN calculate real plus minus" and report back. It'll be a good learning experience, IMO.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
It does, but it is not as simplistic as how you make it out to be. I don't think you have the statistical or mathematical education to even begin to comprehend what it means.
Anyway, read:
https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.c...al-plus-minus/
I don't think you comprehend what "Bayesian prior" means so I'm not going to waste time explaining how your over simplified B.S. definition is wrong.
What did I say that was incorrect, specifically?
EDIT: LOL. I read the linked article and it's agreeing with me word-for-word:
Quote:
Real Plus-Minus does NOT measure how well a player has performed this season
Quote:
One is that RPM tends to be skeptical of player improvements (or regressions) that exceed what is expected for a player that age.
Quote:
RPM’s focus on prediction makes it a poor way to determine who should get end-of-season awards.
GSH, get in here bruh.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
baseline bum
I'm loving LMA's work on the defensive end this year, I wasn't expecting him to be anywhere near as good as Splitter there, much less far superior.
We just hoped the drop off wouldnt be horrible.
Its been upgraded which to me is still shocking.
It still can get better as well!
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
What did I say that was incorrect, specifically?
EDIT: LOL. I read the linked article and it's agreeing with me word-for-word:
GSH, get in here bruh.
The way it works, if you need a f**cking education is that it uses Bayesian statistics to make predictions. So by Bayes rule, it uses a Prior to calculate the Posterior. So it's in the model that it does take information from previous seasons and the current season to calculate the persons +/-. What it is saying is that if there is a massive unexpected improvement of a persons performance then it doesn't accurately reflect that. So in other words the numbers for Kawhi are likely lower than they should be. However it doesn't mean that it doesn't take in account improvements in the game from the current season. It is a complex metric but it is more accurate that the DRtg that you quoted that can tease out the effect of a player outside the usual players he plays with.
Your argument is like saying some a drop of shit fell into a lake therefore the lake is completely tainted and not fit for drinking. It is an oversimplification by someone who knows nothing about statistical modeling.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cjw
Lamarcus has already played 915 minutes this year through 40% of the season, and that's with Pop managing his minutes. He's on pace for ~2,275 minutes.
Compare that to Splitter's 1,030 last year (only made 52 games). That forced the team to give 1,120 minutes of Baynes and 936 minutes to Bonner last year.
The Spurs were only able to get 18 minutes per game out of Tiago last year in the playoffs, which forced Baynes into action for 40 total minutes during the series. We all know how that turned out. Even though Tiago played solid D, his inability to stay healthy OR play long stretches (or for that matter, stretch the floor while out there) limited his effectiveness. It bit the team in the ass in the playoffs because the team had to find someone else to throw at Blake for 20 minutes a game.
Aldridge played 41 minutes a night in the crazy HOU-POR series a few years ago (three OT games) and still had something in the tank against the Spurs the next round, though his shooting % went down a bit. With less of the burden, imagine having a guy who you can easily pencil in for 2x Tiago's minutes come the playoffs and is more matchup proof. You really can eliminate the fourth big from the rotation at that point.
:bobo Great post
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
The way it works, if you need a f**cking education is that it uses Bayesian statistics to make predictions. So by Bayes rule, it uses a Prior to calculate the Posterior. So it's in the model that it does take information from previous seasons and the current season to calculate the persons +/-. What it is saying is that if there is a massive unexpected improvement of a persons performance then it doesn't accurately reflect that. So in other words the numbers for Kawhi are likely lower than they should be. However it doesn't mean that it doesn't take in account improvements in the game from the current season. It is a complex metric but it is more accurate that the DRtg that you quoted that can tease out the effect of a player outside the usual players he plays with.
Your argument is like saying some a drop of shit fell into a lake therefore the lake is completely tainted and not fit for drinking. It is an oversimplification by someone who knows nothing about statistical modeling.
Lol? What's my argument? Since it seems like you've forgotten, this is all I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
No, it's a valid stat; you just don't understand it.
Facts:
- RPM (DRPM + ORPM) does not measure how well a player has performed, offensively or defensively, this season.
- RPM is based on data from previous seasons.
- RPM is designed to predict how well a player will perform based on their own history.
- RPM doesn't represent large increases in performance well; it looks for trends over time.
These are all TRUE; your link practically quotes me. There's no shame in admitting you were wrong for insulting me bro, it's okay.
Also what Drtg did I quote? Lol, you don't even remember who you're talking to.
(PS: I think it would help your case if you stopped throwing out fancy math terms, IMO. We all know that Bayes Rule is completely unrelated.)
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Aldridge stays on the court for much longer.
He's a shotblocking threat. Teams can't pull Tim out on p'n'rs and have a clear path to the rim.
He's a very good defensive rebounder, ending possessions efficiently.
He has good length and speed at his position and gets the rotations.
(His offensive rebounding is a plus, as an aside, coupled with how he's fleet enough to still get back on defense.)
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Its been pretty obvious from day 1 a a spur, tbh. And ppl were calling him out this season already when were annihilating trams on that end, lol. You know who you are
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Well, Paradox just ate #ceperez alive.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
Well, Paradox just ate #ceperez alive.
Nope, rather you just confirmed ignorance in the statistical model behind DRPM.
Here's a free course from Stanford Univ. that you can take to get yourself familiar with the science: https://www.coursera.org/course/pgm
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
Lol? What's my argument? Since it seems like you've forgotten, this is all I said:
These are all TRUE; your link practically quotes me. There's no shame in admitting you were wrong for insulting me bro, it's okay.
Also what Drtg did I quote? Lol, you don't even remember who you're talking to.
(PS: I think it would help your case if you stopped throwing out fancy math terms, IMO. We all know that Bayes Rule is completely unrelated.)
Let me requote and bold what I just said because you still don't get it:
Your argument is like saying some a drop of shit fell into a lake therefore the lake is completely tainted and not fit for drinking. It is an oversimplification by someone who knows nothing about statistical modeling.
Bayes rule is related, that what ESPN said they were using to calculate their predictions. You just don't understand what it means.
I'm sorry, you can't really argue with folks who really don't have the education. All you are doing is cherry picking some favorable sentences in an article and then making an over simplification.
There are a ton of advanced metrics and these all rely on Bayes Rule to build their calculations/simulations. The fact that it is the first time you ever even heard of "Bayes Rule" tells me that you are ignorant as to the mechanics of how this works out.
So please, don't make up simplifications that honestly untrue.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
Your argument is like saying some a drop of shit fell into a lake therefore the lake is completely tainted and not fit for drinking. It is an oversimplification by someone who knows nothing about statistical modeling.
Bayes rule is related, that what ESPN said they were using to calculate their predictions. You just don't understand what it means.
I'm sorry, you can't really argue with folks who really don't have the education. All you are doing is cherry picking some favorable sentences in an article and then making an over simplification.
There are a ton of advanced metrics and these all rely on Bayes Rule to build their calculations/simulations. The fact that it is the first time you ever even heard of "Bayes Rule" tells me that you are ignorant as to the mechanics of how this works out.
Well, umm, I think the issue is that I didn't make an argument. I just stated some widely known and accepted facts about RPM, which you so kindly backed up with your link.
Look up Bayes Rule. Besides its namesake, it has nothing to do with Bayesian priors, IMO. To be honest, I'd expect someone with your "advanced knowledge of statistical modeling" to know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
So please, don't make up simplifications that honestly untrue.
What simplifications, exactly?
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
Well, umm, I think the issue is that I didn't make an argument. I just stated some widely known and accepted facts about RPM, which you so kindly backed up with your link.
That said, now that we've covered what RPM is (and what it isn't), I have a homework assignment for you:
Look up Bayes Rule. Besides its namesake, it has nothing to do with Bayesian priors, IMO. To be honest, I'd expect someone with your "advanced knowledge of statistical modeling" to know that.
Quoted you for posterity. No need to make further arguments here. Ignorance in full display.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ParadoxEN
What simplifications, exactly?
You said that is only uses data from previous seasons in its calculations.
Just to prove you wrong, just look at this: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/9
for Centers this season.
Mr. Boban Marjanovic is in the list? I don't recall him playing last season. So how come he has numbers to his name?
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ceperez
You said that is only uses data from previous seasons in its calculations.
Just to prove you wrong, just look at this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/9
for Centers this season.
Mr. Boban Marjanovic is in the list? I don't recall him playing last season. So how come he has numbers to his name?
Lol. I said, exactly, "RPM is based on data from previous seasons." Which is true, as we've already addressed. Adding words like "only" to my statements isn't very becoming, IMO. I really haven't made any assertions about the stat, tbh, this all widely known info. Not really sure what we're talking about anymore.
However, once you've finished googling Baye's Rule, I'm sure we'd all love to hear about how it's related to Bayesian priors. In fact, since you're such an expert in "statistical modeling" could you show how Boban's RPM is calculated? Should be easy since there's less data to consider, IMO.
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Re: Pop on Lamarcus: He's a better defender than we thought when we signed him
Aldridge seems to have a good BB IQ and I think is at least on track for expectations on adapting to the Spurs system. Remember that some players never could (example Blair). What I see is a smart basketball player that reminds me of Duncan in some ways as to craftiness, not wasting energy, and making smart plays. Mostly at first Aldridge's smart plays have been more individual as compared to the eventual level of team synergy I think we will see with him.
