Quick Notes..

Watched the first 3 quarters quickly(so might not be 100% accurate, but close enough), some notes:

The bad/ugly

- Tony Parker got completely destroyed on defense.

The Warriors had 12 possessions that directly involved Parker as the primary defender, and they scored on 10 of them. They constantly looked for the mismatch, too, as Iguodala, Draymond Green, Klay Thompson and Livingston each had a post-up play vs. Parker that led to a score. Outside of transition points and broken plays, Curry did the majority of his damage with Parker as the defender, whether chasing him through screens, switching, etc.

- Tony Parker's offense

The Spurs had 10 possessions of Parker drive/kick, p&r or variation of an ISO and only scored on 2 of them, along with multiple turnovers. Parker's offense is essential to beating the Warriors, though, you can't just kill them with post plays. He's having a great season, so far, but was really overmatched, tonight.

They aren't going to beat this team without Tony being able to put pressure on them.

- Lamarcus Aldridge's offense

Out of the 8 possessions that were Aldridge post-up or variations of a 1 on 1, the Spurs only scored on 2 of them, and turned the ball over several times, as well.

He struggled against both Green and Bogut in the post, he had trouble moving either guy off their spot. To be fair, he didn't get a chance to get going in the pick&pop game, as his only clean look early on was a semi-open 3 from the baseline.

- Broken plays and transition

The Warriors scored 5 times on "broken plays/loose balls". More damaging to the Spurs was the Warriors scoring 32 points off turnovers. The turnovers were the biggest problem for the Spurs in this game, and it clearly set the tone, too. The Spurs got destroyed in transition, which is what the Warriors do to everybody, but you would expect the Spurs to be more composed.

- No rim protection

The Spurs typically allow 39 PPG in the paint. Tonight, they allowed 52 points in the paint, and that's with the Warriors' starters not even playing in the 4th quarter. Golden State scored on 6 backdoor cuts and had way more layups than the Spurs should ever concede.

The good

- Spurs scored on 9 of the 14 post/ISO plays for Kawhi. It didn't work early on, with 2 turnovers, but it was pretty clearly the most reliable option as the game progressed. The Spurs clearly struggled with entry passes, though, not just to Kawhi, but to all the post players.

It's a work in progress, but it's something they're gonna have to keep working on and hopefully perfect by the playoffs.

- The Spurs had success going to David West. He scored on 2 of his post/ISOs and the other led to an open Danny Green 3.

That's pretty much it for the good:lol


Defensively, Danny Green was primarily asked to be the help defender for a large chunk of his minutes, picking up 2 fouls on clean blocks. Klay Thompson was 1-4 vs. him(FG allowed being the backdoor cut), and he only defended Curry on 2 possessions(no shots attempted), for whatever reason.

Kawhi didn't play his best game defensively, from an individual standpoint, but played pretty well as a help defender. He got beat twice by Klay Thompson on backdoor cuts/drives off the catch, and the Warriors did a good job of hurting him in the matchup Curry with screens, as expected. It was the opposite of last year's April game vs. the Warriors, where he cemented his DPOY.

:bobo

good write up... dont understand why green wasn't the primary defender on curry

I think the Spurs went into the game for the purpose of feeling the Warriors out. Pop obviously didn't show his hand (taking Kawhi out as he was getting hot, Green not on Curry, etc).

Now, I'm not suggesting that if Pop played his cards, we beat the Warriors. They are just simply the better team. Younger, their entire core is at their peaks right now, and maybe even deeper. But Pop might figure our only chance to beat them in a series is to blindside them with a gameplan and matchups they haven't seen and aren't prepared for.

We'll have to figure out some gimmick, because we're over matched on paper.

Also, when the Spurs weren't busy turning the ball over, they got their usual looks, which is encouraging, I suppose..

The problem is that none of the primary handlers were able to withstand the Warriors' swarming and pressure..Manu wasn't too bad with the turnovers, but his history with taking care of the ball is well documented:lol

Parker had 3 turnovers in 19 minutes, Kawhi had 3 turnovers, Mills had 3 turnovers in 16 minutes, and Simmons had 4 turnovers, too..

IIRC, the Warriors aren't even particularly good at forcing turnovers..

simmons looked wildly out of control the whole time, like he was just excited to be out there against a big time opponent

mills was just awful in every way. he was really nervous with the ball, his turnovers were largely unforced, and his defense was horrendous as usual, though he's cute when he hustles and play full court press

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Also, when the Spurs weren't busy turning the ball over, they got their usual looks, which is encouraging, I suppose..

The problem is that none of the primary handlers were able to withstand the Warriors' swarming and pressure..

Parker had 3 turnovers in 19 minutes, Kawhi had 3 turnovers, Mills had 3 turnovers in 16 minutes, and Simmons had 4 turnovers, too..

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And that's exactly why I'm against any kind post-centric offense against them. Yes, it can work in stretches, but it wouldn't be sustainable over a playoff series. It'd get swarmed to death.

But then, I don't see any other offensive strat that can work. Our size and length is our advantage. We used to have the PnR advantage over them when Raymond was coming off the bench and Parker was younger, but that's not the case anymore, obviously.

would help if aldridge didnt play like a pussy like he did today

Ya, Patty was horrible, particularly defensively, too..the numbers don't look too bad, because his assignments missed, but most of the looks were good..

Also, waaayyyy too many defensive miscommunications, which is not something we usually see with the Spurs. It seemed like every time the Warriors posted up vs. a mismatch, they had an open cutter under the basket. Livingston scored 3 FGs where he was wide open after a cut or in transition. Very poor execution on the double teams vs. mismatches.

Simmons missed several assignments, which is expected with his lack of experience, but it's inexcusable for the rest of them.

Dwest was a lone bright spot on offense, but I don't see many people commenting on his defense. He was lost all night, and led to a lot of those back door cuts.

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Originally Posted by 313

Dwest was a lone bright spot on offense, but I don't see many people commenting on his defense. He was lost all night, and led to a lot of those back door cuts.

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I was going to, but tbh, I don't really expect West to bring anything on defense. He's a 4th big being asked to play the role of this year's #1 defensive big in the league(Duncan). We already knew he was a defensive liability. He won't/shouldn't be playing huge minutes in the playoffs, Inshallah, as long as he gives the Spurs nice stints vs. opposing benches.

Thank god it's only January. SPAM still a bit away

Harlem, the question to you is: Does TD make any difference in this game?

Also, thanks for the write up. It's not easy to re-watch a loss like this.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Harlem, the question to you is: Does TD make any difference in this game?

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Duncan will have his problems vs. the Warriors and their style of play, but if we're comparing his potential impact compared to what we saw in tonight's game, then yes, he certainly would have made a difference..he's not worth 30 points, though:lol

The Warriors wouldn't have had a layup drill with Tim out there, but the abundance of turnovers and poor offensive play for the Spurs wouldn't have changed(especially since Tim hasn't been looking too great on offense, lately, anyways)

Although, while I haven't been a fan of Duncan posting up or going to work the past 2 seasons, I'll still take him posting up anybody in a big game, rather than going to Aldridge, unfortunately..I don't care how old he is..

The Warriors toyed with the Spurs last February, too, IIRC, although that was when the Spurs were going through a rough patch(unlike tonight's game, where the Spurs entered on a hot streak)..the Spurs got them back in April with a blowout in SA, but who knows, maybe the Warriors weren't taking that game too seriously..they definitely had a reason to go hard tonight, with all the talk of the Spurs potentially being on their level..

I'm not going to overreact to 1 game, but regardless of the Warriors' dominance, I can't deny that it's discouraging that the Spurs couldn't put up a better fight than pretenders like the Cavs and Bulls..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Duncan will have his problems vs. the Warriors and their style of play, but if we're comparing his potential impact compared to what we saw in tonight's game, then yes, he certainly would have made a difference..he's not worth 30 points, though:lol

The Warriors wouldn't have had a layup drill with Tim out there, but the abundance of turnovers and poor offensive play for the Spurs wouldn't have changed(especially since Tim hasn't been looking too great on offense, lately, anyways)

Although, while I haven't been a fan of Duncan posting up or going to work the past 2 seasons, I'll still take him posting up anybody in a big game, rather than going to Aldridge, unfortunately..I don't care how old he is..

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TD's passing is also very much a key. I know West is a good passer but its not the same, nor has he played 37 or something games with LMA and just a lifetime almost with everyone else in that SL. He's not worth the 30 points, but maybe he prevents a few layups, maybe he makes a few entry passes that go in.
I agree with you our problem is our backcourt, and that is the gods honest truth, but I don't think we get a beatdown of this magnitude.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

TD's passing is also very much a key. I know West is a good passer but its not the same, nor has he played 37 or something games with LMA and just a lifetime almost with everyone else in that SL. He's not worth the 30 points, but maybe he prevents a few layups, maybe he makes a few entry passes that go in.
I agree with you our problem is our backcourt, and that is the gods honest truth, but I don't think we get a beatdown of this magnitude.

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The Spurs had many problems that went beyond the backcourt, tbh. The Warriors have the advantage in virtually every facet of this matchup, but there are 2 things in particular that cannot be fixed for the Spurs in this matchup, even with optimal strategy and execution:

- Curry is historically great, the best guard since Jordan

and

- Parker and Mills aren't going to become 6'3" by May

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

The Warriors toyed with the Spurs last February, too, IIRC, although that was when the Spurs were going through a rough patch(unlike tonight's game, where the Spurs entered on a hot streak)..the Spurs got them back in April with a blowout in SA, but who knows, maybe the Warriors weren't taking that game too seriously..they definitely had a reason to go hard tonight, with all the talk of the Spurs potentially being on their level..

I'm not going to overreact to 1 game, but regardless of the Warriors' dominance, I can't deny that it's discouraging that the Spurs couldn't put up a better fight than pretenders like the Cavs and Bulls..

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It will make the team better. How much better we will see in the end.
Pop got enough footage of everyone. I do agree he held out Kawhi when he was getting hot bc what was the point? He had reasons for everything, including leaving Simmons there to run wild. Simmons showed fire when the SL was lacking it, so it was a "CoJo" moment. Let's say Simmons earned that time, and from there Pop wanted enough footage to work with him to improve.

I thought Rasual played well, but can we see Pop play him? Its not the popular bench Anderson, since Anderson has already been benched. To play Rasual you have to bench somebody valuable.

Why leave Manu out there for that long is my only doubt. Maybe he thought we make a run with Manu, Mils make a few 3s. But obviously it was a disaster.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Parker and Mills aren't going to become 6'3" by May

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This fact just by itself may prevent us from reaching a meeting with GSW. It was already a warning light when against the Clippers both Chris Paul and Austin Rivers dominated Parker and Mills.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Parker and Mills aren't going to become 6'3" by May

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Maybe Parker can become 6'3'' wide...

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

The Spurs had many problems that went beyond the backcourt, tbh. The Warriors have the advantage in virtually every facet of this matchup, but there are 2 things in particular that cannot be fixed for the Spurs in this matchup, even with optimal strategy and execution:

- Curry is historically great, the best guard since Jordan

and

- Parker and Mills aren't going to become 6'3" by May

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I kept saying that Simmons developing was extremely key. Spurs just need bigger players on the court against Golden State.

It was a disaster out there because Golden State could see all the mismatches and exploited it. Livingston is going to be a big problem since he can post up our guards and is very efficient at the mid range. He became less aggressive with Kyle on the court, however Kyle had problems shooting on top of GS defenders.

-Aldridge played scared
-Parker played awful
-Kawhi got too few touches
-Ball seemed to slip out our fingers as soon as we touched it
-Dubs feasted on back cuts and and-1s
-Whole team seemed discombobulated and without energy

Simmons may have been out of control some but he was one of the few who didn't play scared.

"simmons looked wildly out of control the whole time"

yep, out of control defines Simmons. lots of talent, and yes, aggressive, but not much BBIQ

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Originally Posted by ceperez

I kept saying that Simmons developing was extremely key. Spurs just need bigger players on the court against Golden State.

It was a disaster out there because Golden State could see all the mismatches and exploited it. Livingston is going to be a big problem since he can post up our guards and is very efficient at the mid range. He became less aggressive with Kyle on the court, however Kyle had problems shooting on top of GS defenders.

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Kyle is very hesitant and not wanting to force his shots, waiting for "open" shots (the spurs mantra), and wanting to move the ball. The passing in particular is probably the main reason he was drafted and I think the Spurs want him to keep developing that, but Pop has also been very critical of his shot selection, when precisely one of his best attributes is that he can force his shots against most perimeter players.

Did you know about 60% of his attempts are self generated? He can get his shots, that is what is frustrating. Which is also why I wanted Pop to let him struggle out there. He was looking terrible for a few minutes, ok. But he's out of the rotation, and he's been coddled. Pop has brought him along slowly but he's 22, and has to learn. There are things you can't teach in practice, like the pressure of a game like this. Pop isn't going to throw away any game to develop him, but since it was a blowout anyways, why not let him struggle a little bit, let him figure things out. Pop did that to a very large degree with Simmons, but then let Manu out there for too long a time.

-Aldridge pussed out.

-Duncan in the post is not so much about scoring, it's about settling the team down and his ability to survey the defense and make the right pass.

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Originally Posted by Horse

Simmons may have been out of control some but he was one of the few who didn't play scared.

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That is why Pop let him there, mistakes be damned.

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Originally Posted by UZER

-Aldridge pussed out.

-Duncan in the post is not so much about scoring, it's about settling the team down and his ability to survey the defense and make the right pass.

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Neither LMA nor Kawhi really has that. But Timmy is an all time great.
Even Diaw looked out of sorts this game.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Kyle is very hesitant and not wanting to force his shots, waiting for "open" shots (the spurs mantra), and wanting to move the ball. The passing in particular is probably the main reason he was drafted and I think the Spurs want him to keep developing that, but Pop has also been very critical of his shot selection, when precisely one of his best attributes is that he can force his shots against most perimeter players.

Did you know about 60% of his attempts are self generated? He can get his shots, that is what is frustrating. Which is also why I wanted Pop to let him struggle out there. He was looking terrible for a few minutes, ok. But he's out of the rotation, and he's been coddled. Pop has brought him along slowly but he's 22, and has to learn. There are things you can't teach in practice, like the pressure of a game like this. Pop isn't going to throw away any game to develop him, but since it was a blowout anyways, why not let him struggle a little bit, let him figure things out. Pop did that to a very large degree with Simmons, but then let Manu out there for too long a time.

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The only reason I think Manu was on the court a lot was he was trying to figure out the defense.

Clearly though, GS offense can overwhelm Spurs conservative defense. What was also interesting is where the GS perimeter defenses were guarding the Spurs players. They had them standing at the 3 point line.

The Spurs cannot win against the Dubs if they attempt only 14 shots vs 26 by the Dubs.

Pop has been working on this experiment of going back to a post up game, but I honestly don't have a lot of faith that it can beat the style of play of GS. Spurs need bigger guards and maybe the fact that Butler has the best +/- is an indicator of what may be needed.

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Originally Posted by ceperez

The only reason I think Manu was on the court a lot was he was trying to figure out the defense.

Clearly though, GS offense can overwhelm Spurs conservative defense. What was also interesting is where the GS perimeter defenses were guarding the Spurs players. They had them standing at the 3 point line.

The Spurs cannot win against the Dubs if they attempt only 14 shots vs 26 by the Dubs.

Pop has been working on this experiment of going back to a post up game, but I honestly don't have a lot of faith that it can beat the style of play of GS. Spurs need bigger guards and maybe the fact that Butler has the best +/- is an indicator of what may be needed.

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You are right. Very good observation on the defense. Since precisely we have so many mid range shooters this season. It was surprising LMA was forced to take his first shot at the 3 pt line, when he hasn't been shooting 3s and that is not part of his offense that we have seen this season. What a conundrum that they are giving away the 3, to our guys who want to drive (like Simmons) or take midrange shots, like Anderson, while also completely taking Danny out of his game. Butler has played really well.

GSW flat out executed what they wanted to do, and we didn't starting with LMA obviously.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

good write up... dont understand why green wasn't the primary defender on curry

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My guess is they don't have confidence that Parker/Mills can guard the 3 spot anymore so they tried to keep them on Curry to see what would happen.

Patty is the really the issue here. If he's not hitting a ton of shots, he just can't be out there. I know that Cory couldn't be kept, but it would have been nice to see him out there last night. I don't think he'd've defended Curry much better (he was very streaky defensively when he was in SA), but he could have been able to do more with the ball, and maybe he could have checked Klay or Iggy. Failing to get a legit third-string PG hurt them here. (And no, Spurtacular, Jimmer would have been worse.)

The Spurs also missed a healthy Splitter in this game. There was literally no PnR game last night, and the lack of a seven-footer and defensive-minded player meant the team was relying on their perimeter defenders to prevent penetration, and that's not really what they are used to (though it is what they're coached to do now).

Anderson deserved Simmons' minutes. I have no idea how people came out of that game thinking Simmons deserved the start. He was a hot mess in team D, and his driving is like the last thing you want against GS. Kyle's midrange game, passing, length and instincts, on the other hand, would be very useful.

But unless LMA is going to be better on defense, there's really nothing the Spurs can do. He simply can't be the one who sits in a small-ball lineup. He just freaking can't.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Patty is the really the issue here. If he's not hitting a ton of shots, he just can't be out there. I know that Cory couldn't be kept, but it would have been nice to see him out there last night. I don't think he'd've defended Curry much better (he was very streaky defensively when he was in SA), but he could have been able to do more with the ball, and maybe he could have checked Klay or Iggy. Failing to get a legit third-string PG hurt them here. (And no, Spurtacular, Jimmer would have been worse.)

The Spurs also missed a healthy Splitter in this game. There was literally no PnR game last night, and the lack of a seven-footer and defensive-minded player meant the team was relying on their perimeter defenders to prevent penetration, and that's not really what they are used to (though it is what they're coached to do now).

Anderson deserved Simmons' minutes. I have no idea how people came out of that game thinking Simmons deserved the start. He was a hot mess in team D, and his driving is like the last thing you want against GS. Kyle's midrange game, passing, length and instincts, on the other hand, would be very useful.

But unless LMA is going to be better on defense, there's really nothing the Spurs can do. He simply can't be the one who sits in a small-ball lineup. He just freaking can't.

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I'm not going to fully judge the defense, since the 32 points off turnovers and abundance of transition opportunities really killed the Spurs' D, but I thought it was very evident that the Warriors were intent on exploiting Parker/Mills in the halfcourt, along with the lack of interior D..Aldridge and West were a disaster, defensively..

And ya, I agree about Simmons..his team D is Belineli-esque, but masked by his athleticism..

The offense was more of a concern for me..it's tough to play defense and slow the pace down when you're turning the ball over at such a ridiculous rate..

Of course Duncan is a better option than aldridge. TD can actually pass off a post play. I can smell a duncan pass a mile away though. Hell usually try to "attack" further away from the basket to encourage the slight help but nkt far enough to not make.a shot..something a lesser talent lile Aldridge would never understand and do.

Warriors completely dictated the pace, too..

103 pace, which is even higher than the Warriors' average, and way higher than the Spurs usual 94..

Pretty short good list tbh, I defend Parker sometimes but can't after that imo

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Patty is the really the issue here. If he's not hitting a ton of shots, he just can't be out there. I know that Cory couldn't be kept, but it would have been nice to see him out there last night. I don't think he'd've defended Curry much better (he was very streaky defensively when he was in SA), but he could have been able to do more with the ball, and maybe he could have checked Klay or Iggy. Failing to get a legit third-string PG hurt them here. (And no, Spurtacular, Jimmer would have been worse.)

The Spurs also missed a healthy Splitter in this game. There was literally no PnR game last night, and the lack of a seven-footer and defensive-minded player meant the team was relying on their perimeter defenders to prevent penetration, and that's not really what they are used to (though it is what they're coached to do now).

Anderson deserved Simmons' minutes. I have no idea how people came out of that game thinking Simmons deserved the start. He was a hot mess in team D, and his driving is like the last thing you want against GS. Kyle's midrange game, passing, length and instincts, on the other hand, would be very useful.

But unless LMA is going to be better on defense, there's really nothing the Spurs can do. He simply can't be the one who sits in a small-ball lineup. He just freaking can't.

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I cant for the life of understand how anyone who waatched the game last night think simmons is a good defender. He was so poor last night.

I dont understand why Fans stupidly think "energy" athletic ability makes you a good defender. There are so many fans.who think simmons did a great job defensively. I dont even understand how anyone can come with that conclusion.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I'm not going to fully judge the defense, since the 32 points off turnovers and abundance of transition opportunities really killed the Spurs' D, but I thought it was very evident that the Warriors were intent on exploiting Parker/Mills in the halfcourt, along with the lack of interior D..Aldridge and West were a disaster, defensively..

And ya, I agree about Simmons..his team D is Belineli-esque, but masked by his athleticism..

The offense was more of a concern for me..it's tough to play defense and slow the pace down when you're turning the ball over at such a ridiculous rate..

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Simmons just isn't ready for primetime with those handles and that desire to drive headlong into danger. The other turnovers were Green being completely abandoned by his teammates who cleared out for him for some reason and by the Spurs essentially "playing the play" and allowing the Warriors to jump the predictable passes. In that way, it was like the 2013 Finals. The Spurs just need to calm down and take the extra second to see where the defense is coming from before making the pass.

They're also posting up wrong. They should just shoot over Green, not try to back him down. Don't they know physics at all? That's the same reason why Durant kept getting cucked by Green in 2014. Height by itself is a disadvantage in the low post (higher center of gravity making it hard to move things below it), but it's pretty much unstoppable in a face-up mid-post touch. It seemed like only West understood that they needed to start hitting their jumpers before trying to go inside. You'd think the Spurs would be anticipating that after signing two midrange bigs.

I don't think they even tried to get anyone open off screens in this game. Sure, I saw them run the Loop a couple of times, but I didn't like the off-ball movement. Kawhi did well when he was decisive, but he's not going to have long-term success posting the Warriors as the primary option. If he has his man pinned, he just needs to go for it. But a play where he's going to receive a normal entry pass for a clear-out isn't going to work.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

I cant for the life of understand how anyone who waatched the game last night think simmons is a good defender. He was so poor last night.

I dont understand why Fans stupidly think "energy" athletic ability makes you a good defender. There are so many fans.who think simmons did a great job defensively. I dont even understand how anyone can come with that conclusion.

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I mean, there were times where I was like, "Oh that was a good move." But yeah, he didn't really have it. Especially not to the point that Pop benched Green early in the third for Simmons (I missed the first minute of the second half, so I have no idea what Danny did). I also would have liked to see what McCallum could have done against Curry, since it was essentially a free-for-all after like four minutes of the third.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I don't think they even tried to get anyone open off screens in this game. Sure, I saw them run the Loop a couple of times, but I didn't like the off-ball movement. Kawhi did well when he was decisive, but he's not going to have long-term success posting the Warriors as the primary option. If he has his man pinned, he just needs to go for it. But a play where he's going to receive a normal entry pass for a clear-out isn't going to work.

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I only saw one. That was the play after a time out when the Spurs double picked Green and Curry and Mills knocked down his only shot of the game. But after that, only Boban started setting screens, even then they weren't anything by design, just him arbitrarily doing it. Spurs really didn't run any plays this game which tells me Pop wasn't looking to win it all.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I mean, there were times where I was like, "Oh that was a good move." But yeah, he didn't really have it. Especially not to the point that Pop benched Green early in the third for Simmons (I missed the first minute of the second half, so I have no idea what Danny did). I also would have liked to see what McCallum could have done against Curry, since it was essentially a free-for-all after like four minutes of the third.

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I really don't know what Green did to get benched, even after re-watching it..

They ran Curry/Draymond p&r with Green defending Thompson on the perimeter..Parker gave up easy penetration, Draymond had the lane, West went to help, which left Bogut as the receiver with the chance for a dunk..Green came over to help, but he wasn't going to successfully block or alter a Bogut dunk..

I guess Pop wanted Danny to give Klay the open 3 instead? :lol

He probably just wanted to get him out of the game for whatever reason, it couldn't have been due to a mistake..

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I mean, there were times where I was like, "Oh that was a good move." But yeah, he didn't really have it. Especially not to the point that Pop benched Green early in the third for Simmons (I missed the first minute of the second half, so I have no idea what Danny did). I also would have liked to see what McCallum could have done against Curry, since it was essentially a free-for-all after like four minutes of the third.

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Green actually made the one three he took in relevant minutes and defended pretty well. I'm not going to make another thread on how Pop is being cute again with his danny treatment but he really os overcoaching. There is no reason for simmons and other players to eat a chunk.of his minutes in this kind of matchup when he was clearly playing confident on both ends of the court.

I just dont get it. Ive accepted the fact that Pop overcoaches and tries to be cute sometimes and that its probably one of his weakness as a great coach.

Oh, Golden State is a great transition team..lets take out an elite transition defender for a low IQ defensive player. Makes perfect sense.

Parker was terrible last night but he hardly called plays for himself. They only run the loop once. He really was overwhelmed. Even when he had the opportunity to run the loop with ezeli down low he just conceded. He got shook.

Made a thread before the game how important it is for him to attack when the situation calls for it but he clealry didnt have the confidencd to attack after getting embarrased by Draymond-Bogut..missed opportunities in the 2nd quarter.

parker hip could be bothering him more but tp talked his way into playing

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Originally Posted by ducks

parker hip could be bothering him more but tp talked his way into playing

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He looked fine, physically, just struggled the same way everybody else did..hopefully he shows up in the March games, Spurs need him to perform, since Patty is a huge liability against this team..

You didn't see the fear in Kyles eyes? He is not ready to play with the big boys on the big stage......yet! He is way to passive for these types of games.

Parker looked pathetic out there last night; I wish Kyle would sack up and play with fire and urgency!!

Doesn't matter if Simmons is poor defensively now, someone will have to step up to play because Mills should be benched against this team, and most teams.

Whether it's Simmons or Anderson or Butler, the spurs should just go big in the backcourt and keep Mills out.

Lineups with Diaw as the center and Kawhi as the 4 must be in play.

Parker I guess deserves a chance to see if he can be hidden on Barnes otherwise there just isn't room for him or Patty against Warriors best lineups and it must be Manu-Green-Simmons or Kyle-Kawhi-Diaw (LMA if he proves himself).

Parker will give us nothing on D against the Dubs and it looks like LMA won't either. If they can't drop 20 a piece againat the dubs then the Spurs are fucked. Sure our D has been great all season but sometimes great D isn't enough. Especially against a historic offense like the Dubs.

biggest issue is turnovers imo. no matter what you ain't beating anyone on the road with 26 (or more?) turnovers especially the defending champs. that's your game right there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

- Parker and Mills aren't going to become 6'3" by May

---

.

This.

I actually think Parker and Mills tried their best. But, they looked like high school kids against grown men. Not their fault...it is what it is.

GS not only attacked TP but LMA as well. It seemed pretty deliberate to me. LMA has to be better on both ends. Kawhi too. The fact is SA went all in with those two & I'm confident they have enough support on both ends in a series but Kawhi/LMA are the Spurs advantage. If they don't perform SA will not win. There's a lot more too it than that (meaning the "how" of putting LMA/Kawhi in spots to be successful) but that's the truth.

Also, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that was a real defensive game plan. Not for anytime and definitely not for the Warriors. Spurs, even w Duncan, don't have the players to play some bs scramble mode defense. Especially not vs GS. It was quite ridiculous to begin with and looked like 4 year olds on a soccer field just swarming to the ball. No defense can sustain doubles at the frequency the Spurs used last night. It not only causes breakdowns but tires you out.

Spurs will definitely & should play more straight up. Curry gets one man with maybe some weighted shade to his side of the court but it's imperative you shut everyone else down. Again more to it, but last night was a damn joke & was really embarrassing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

GS not only attacked TP but LMA as well. It seemed pretty deliberate to me. LMA has to be better on both ends. Kawhi too. The fact is SA went all in with those two & I'm confident they have enough support on both ends in a series but Kawhi/LMA are the Spurs advantage. If they don't perform SA will not win. There's a lot more too it than that (meaning the "how" of putting LMA/Kawhi in spots to be successful) but that's the truth.

Also, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that was a real defensive game plan. Not for anytime and definitely not for the Warriors. Spurs, even w Duncan, don't have the players to play some bs scramble mode defense. Especially not vs GS. It was quite ridiculous to begin with and looked like 4 year olds on a soccer field just swarming to the ball. No defense can sustain doubles at the frequency the Spurs used last night. It not only causes breakdowns but tires you out.

Spurs will definitely & should play more straight up. Curry gets one man with maybe some weighted shade to his side of the court but it's imperative you shut everyone else down. Again more to it, but last night was a damn joke & was really embarrassing.

---

Basically this. Spurs might lose a potential series vs GS but last night was in no way indicative of how it'll go.

There were some bad doubles. Like there was one where Kawhi doubled Iggy and left Klay open under the basket. Sean was crying about no one helping Leonard, but I have no idea why Kawhi helped in the first place. Who cares if Iggy is trying to back down Parker in the short corner (12 feet from the rim)? That's like the best-case scenario. It's even worse because Leonard wasn't even affecting the play. He just lost Thompson after taking a couple of steps toward Iggy.

Leonard did some weird doubles that led to easy baskets. Any other night and Leonard is on the bench for it. The fact he did it a few times with no reaction from Pop makes me think it was deliberate.

The Spurs were being manhandled and didn't have a response to the hyper-aggressive defense by the Warriors. Parker and Ginobili often looked like it was just all too quick and too much for them. LMA has to play better than this if the Spurs want to have a chance at beating GS - but his teammates also have to do a better job at getting him involved offensively.
Draymond Green was the best playmaker on the floor, with Curry being the best ballhandler and (obviously) the best shooter out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Warriors completely dictated the pace, too..

103 pace, which is even higher than the Warriors' average, and way higher than the Spurs usual 94..

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This was the biggest surprise, it wasn't even like they dictated the pace, we just played right into their hands. We gave them 85 shots and 25 FTs while they still had 21 turnovers :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

This was the biggest surprise, it wasn't even like they dictated the pace, we just played right into their hands. We gave them 85 shots and 25 FTs while they still had 21 turnovers :lol

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Double or nothing on the 20.00 for tonight's Lakers?

Usual bet. Kobe 40% on min. 10 shots. I got the over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Double or nothing on the 20.00 for tonight's Lakers?

Usual bet. Kobe 40% on min. 10 shots. I got the over.

---

Aren't we even after last night?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

Aren't we even after last night?

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I broke even with you on the last bet actually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I broke even with you on the last bet actually.

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Alright, I'll do 10 for tonight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

Alright, I'll do 10 for tonight.

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:tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

Aren't we even after last night?

---

Just to let you know I'm not trying to pull a fast one like Luva:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8324049

I was 20.00 down, and then 10.00 down after Kirbs came through for me in that game http://www.basketball-reference.com/...512150LAL.html.

And I broke even with this one:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8355043

You gave me 24 and the Shitshow actually covered.

Admins, I've been banned for over a year from making threads. Please forgive, this is absurd and ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

And I broke even with this one:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8355043

You gave me 24 and the Shitshow actually covered.

---

That's where I was confused. I thought I gave you 8: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8355061

Quote:

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Originally Posted by testies

Admins, I've been banned for over a year from making threads. Please forgive, this is absurd and ridiculous.

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Bend over, I'll show you absurd and ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

That's where I was confused. I thought I gave you 8: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8355061

---

Oh shit :lol

I thought you were referring to Kobe's old school number or something and read it as an abbreviated Number 8 rather than No. 8.

I would've never made that bet only getting 8 points. But it's cool. My mistake for not asking you to clarify.

We'll go into tonight even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Oh shit :lol

I thought you were referring to Kobe's old school number or something and read it as an abbreviated Number 8 rather than No. 8.

I would've never made that bet only getting 8 points. But it's cool. My mistake for not asking you to clarify.

We'll go into tonight even.

---

:lol there was a thread that day about the Lakers retiring both #24 and #8 so I was (attempting to) play off of that.

Let's just cancel that one, split the difference? You're down $10 and we go double or nothing on that $10 tonight?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

:lol there was a thread that day about the Lakers retiring both #24 and #8 so I was (attempting to) play off of that.

Let's just cancel that one, split the difference? You're down $10 and we go double or nothing on that $10 tonight?

---

Wouldn't I'd be up 10.00 after winning last night's 20.00 bet? (I was 20.00 into you before the Bucks game where Kirbs covered and got me down to 10.00).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Patty is the really the issue here. If he's not hitting a ton of shots, he just can't be out there. I know that Cory couldn't be kept, but it would have been nice to see him out there last night. I don't think he'd've defended Curry much better (he was very streaky defensively when he was in SA), but he could have been able to do more with the ball, and maybe he could have checked Klay or Iggy. Failing to get a legit third-string PG hurt them here. (And no, Spurtacular, Jimmer would have been worse.)

The Spurs also missed a healthy Splitter in this game. There was literally no PnR game last night, and the lack of a seven-footer and defensive-minded player meant the team was relying on their perimeter defenders to prevent penetration, and that's not really what they are used to (though it is what they're coached to do now).

Anderson deserved Simmons' minutes. I have no idea how people came out of that game thinking Simmons deserved the start. He was a hot mess in team D, and his driving is like the last thing you want against GS. Kyle's midrange game, passing, length and instincts, on the other hand, would be very useful.

But unless LMA is going to be better on defense, there's really nothing the Spurs can do. He simply can't be the one who sits in a small-ball lineup. He just freaking can't.

---

We completely see eye to eye. I loved Anderson at the 4, against Draymond. When he was there, he switched adequately as needed and communicated on defense. The minutes he played, the defensive situation was improved, except that GSW attacked Tony relentlessly with whoever was on him, and there was nothing we could do about Tony being a problem defensively.

I didn't think he played poorly. He forced some shots, but listen, Pop already wanted ppl to show balls, and LMA and Tony had really not shown up. So I can live with an Anderson forced up shot, that really he was fouled on, but it wasn't called. Meanwhile on the other end they were calling the stupidest stuff on Danny.

I am glad Simmons played bc he needs the experience, but so does Anderson and it is my one gripe and whine with Pop. I have a suspicion Anderson will be one of those guys we don't use much this season. Then next season he's a difference maker and everyone will be like "ahh, why didn't Pop use that guy b4"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Wouldn't I'd be up 10.00 after winning last night's 20.00 bet? (I was 20.00 into you before the Bucks game where Kirbs covered and got me down to 10.00).

---

Yes, you're right, my bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

Leonard did some weird doubles that led to easy baskets. Any other night and Leonard is on the bench for it. The fact he did it a few times with no reaction from Pop makes me think it was deliberate.

---

I agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

Leonard did some weird doubles that led to easy baskets. Any other night and Leonard is on the bench for it. The fact he did it a few times with no reaction from Pop makes me think it was deliberate.

---

This. There was another instance where he jumped a SnR against Thompson at the 3 point line and left Green alone to roll straight to the bucket.

Looking back there's no way Leonard is doing that on his own just for shits and giggles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I mean, there were times where I was like, "Oh that was a good move." But yeah, he didn't really have it. Especially not to the point that Pop benched Green early in the third for Simmons (I missed the first minute of the second half, so I have no idea what Danny did). I also would have liked to see what McCallum could have done against Curry, since it was essentially a free-for-all after like four minutes of the third.

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Wow Chinook you are on a roll today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:downspin:
I agree with this too.
WTF? right? If we were getting cucked then try other things. Heck as you mentioned lack of an inside presence throw Boban there earlier than the 4th. You know what the defense didn't get much better in the 4th, but we were not outscored either.

Danny got hit with a cut. He wasn't completely blown, but he fouled I think it was Klay. They were calling the stupidest shit on Danny, and had Timmy been there, Klay doesn't get the cut all the way to the rim. Danny did get hit with cuts, but so did Manu. Kawhi to start the game was the first to let Klay get by him and go the rim on a bounce pass. Simmons was completely lost. I think Pop let him out there to figure it out as a teaching point, and to show LMA that a less heralded guy had more balls basically.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Splits

Yes, you're right, my bad.

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So still good for double or nothing for tonight? (I go up 20.00 or you break even)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

So still good for double or nothing for tonight? (I go up 20.00 or you break even)

---

:tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by objective

Doesn't matter if Simmons is poor defensively now, someone will have to step up to play because Mills should be benched against this team, and most teams.

Whether it's Simmons or Anderson or Butler, the spurs should just go big in the backcourt and keep Mills out.

---

That would have been a good experiment. Pop not willing to go away from Mills. In the past Cojo covered so much for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atl Spur

Parker looked pathetic out there last night; I wish Kyle would sack up and play with fire and urgency!!

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To sack it up, he needs opportunities. Tell that to Coach Pop.

Nick Van Mills has been used toilet paper for a long time, nothing to see there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agloco

This. There was another instance where he jumped a SnR against Thompson at the 3 point line and left Green alone to roll straight to the bucket.

Looking back there's no way Leonard is doing that on his own just for shits and giggles.

---

They were switches and double teams, but poorly executed zero communication

Just a terrible game plan execute poorly.

LMA is at the cross-roads now. He's never been in a situation that mattered. Nothing with these expectations. He's been good. Very good. Especially for a guy adjusting to a new scheme & less usage. But this was his first dose of reality when it came to gut check time.

He now at least understands there is a difference in first round teams and WCF teams. He will have to learn what that extra gear means. Will he have enough? I have doubts but I'm not counting him out yet. Let's see how he responds the 2nd half of the year. For better or worse it's on LMA/Kawhi & they have a great supporting cast for stumbling in a moment. But they can't take a backseat the entire ride.

LMA is looking himself in the mirror right now. He can't lie to himself. He has to make the call if he's going to be the player he wants to be. It's not just about talent. He knows that now.

:lol The Spurs very obviously did not gameplan their rotations, switches, and positioning. The Warriors were doubling Kawhi at particular spots on the floor with or without the ball. Positioning against our motion to funnel the ball to Verde and West.

The OP reads like they read stat sheets and don't really watch the games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

LMA is at the cross-roads now. He's never been in a situation that mattered. Nothing with these expectations. He's been good. Very good. Especially for a guy adjusting to a new scheme & less usage. But this was his first dose of reality when it came to gut check time.

He now at least understands there is a difference in first round teams and WCF teams. He will have to learn what that extra gear means. Will he have enough? I have doubts but I'm not counting him out yet. Let's see how he responds the 2nd half of the year. For better or worse it's on LMA/Kawhi & they have a great supporting cast for stumbling in a moment. But they can't take a backseat the entire ride.

LMA is looking himself in the mirror right now. He can't lie to himself. He has to make the call if he's going to be the player he wants to be. It's not just about talent. He knows that now.

---

This narrative is worse than piggy backing off of Memphis marketing slogans. You lost your right to bag on local sports writers writing talent.

Hi Fuzzy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

:lol The Spurs very obviously did not gameplan their rotations, switches, and positioning. The Warriors were doubling Kawhi at particular spots on the floor with or without the ball. Positioning against our motion to funnel the ball to Verde and West.

The OP reads like they read stat sheets and don't really watch the games.

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:lol nobody said the Spurs game-planned for anything, everybody knows Pop doesn't do much of it during the season(as he himself has said)..these are "quick" notes/summary of what we saw, your smug/douchey ass doesn't know what the Spurs or Warriors were actually intending on doing in this game, strategically..

:lmao tell us more about how Lionel Hollis is an elite coach, though..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

:lol nobody said the Spurs game-planned for anything, everybody knows Pop doesn't do much of it during the season(as he himself has said)..these are "quick" notes/summary of what we saw, your smug/douchey ass doesn't know what the Spurs or Warriors were actually intending on doing in this game, strategically..

:lmao tell us more about how Lionel Hollis is an elite coach, though..

---

I never said Hollins was elite. I was disputing your league worst hyperbole. That is about the level of your analysis.

:lol smug. tell us more about what makes an alpha and similar tripe.

And what is this "we saw" horseshit. You that far deluded yet?

Your notes were basically shit on Parker and LMA and give faint praise to Green and West. In it you talk about it like you're reading a stat sheet. Your obtuse to my point about what the Warriors were doing.

You don't dispute any of that. Your analysis is shit. You just whine about my character like a bitch.

Fuzzy :lmao

The sam mitchell of spurstalk if every poster was an NBA coach. :lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

I don't think they even tried to get anyone open off screens in this game. Sure, I saw them run the Loop a couple of times, but I didn't like the off-ball movement. Kawhi did well when he was decisive, but he's not going to have long-term success posting the Warriors as the primary option. If he has his man pinned, he just needs to go for it. But a play where he's going to receive a normal entry pass for a clear-out isn't going to work.

---

But it was the only that worked on offense, Kawhi has a favorable matchup against Barnes and Thompson and the team should help him to exploit it consistently.
Also, you say that when a player "has it going on, you give him the ball", Kawhi was the only one effective along with West. Not sure why they didn't call his number more often in the game.

It's obvious it won't work in "every possession" , but could have given us a chance to keep in the game in the 2nd quarter...at least until the rest of the Spurs offense start to figure out some answers to Warriors D on our pick and roll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

:lmao tell us more about how Lionel Hollis is an elite coach, though..

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I remember that conversation too. You were trolling racist hyperbole and complaining about the last play of that year's Memphis series where you were complaining about the play only being 'a simple pnr.' I pointed out that they used Gasol as the play initiator and ran Conley off a double screen on the weakside before the playside pick. It got Conley with a full head of steam in the lane on a switch. He is their best finisher.

Splitter made a great defensive play on the switch but you clearly demonstrated there too you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

I never said Hollins was elite. I was disputing your league worst hyperbole. That is about the level of your analysis.

:lol smug. tell us more about what makes an alpha and similar tripe.

And what is this "we saw" horseshit. You that far deluded yet?

Your notes were basically shit on Parker and LMA and give faint praise to Green and West. In it you talk about it like you're reading a stat sheet. Your obtuse to my point about what the Warriors were doing.

You don't dispute any of that. Your analysis is shit. You just whine about my character like a bitch.

---

:lmao there was no attempt of "analysis" in my post, it was a summary of the ultimate result of each type of individual possessions.."quick" notes that were more stat-oriented, I never claimed otherwise..

This thread never made an attempt to thoroughly analyze plays, I'm not a former High School coach that is attempting to drop a vanilla analysis on the sets that were ran in the game like you do in virtually all your boring, irrelevant, largely ignored posts..

The only reason I'm even aware of your existence on this forum is because you've been following me around for years(since I destroyed you re: NBA coaches)..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Fuzzy :lmao

The sam mitchell of spurstalk if every poster was an NBA coach. :lmao

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:lol he's a 40+ year old, ex-High School coach still trying to relive his old glory of drawing up x's and o's for 16-year old girls, tbh..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

:lol he's a 40+ year old, ex-High School coach still trying to relive his old glory of drawing up x's and o's for 16-year old girls, tbh..

---

So your response is to characterize me as a high school coach in a demographic I presume you find unfavorable. This is supposed to dispute my claim that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about how?

You did a roster analysis for a game. You can call it whatever else you want. Mutual exclusivity and the ability to see and anticipate it is a huge blinder of yours. Cuts through and clarifies. You remain obtuse to the larger dynamics of what is actually going on on the court.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

:lol he's a 40+ year old, ex-High School coach still trying to relive his old glory of drawing up x's and o's for 16-year old girls, tbh..

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Not surprised. :lmao

Probably a PE teacher that was assinged as a coach cause no one else would do it.

Laughable takes. Almost always wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Not surprised. :lmao

Probably a PE teacher that was assinged as a coach cause no one else would do it.

Laughable takes. Almost always wrong.

---

:lol Zach Lowe was on Windhorst's podcast, and his main takeaway from the game was that Parker was obliterated on D and the Warriors made it a purpose to attack him..

:( But your post was only about hating Parker and Aldridge:(

I remember when Miami was the Super team, it seems like we could not beat them. But when we play them in finals, it seems like we were the better team. Pop does not want to show his cards until it matters. It is not coincident that most players played bad last night.