Looks like Amare will re-sign witht the Suns

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Originally Posted by Rummpd

"Also, he and Nike are close to a contract for around $80 million dollars, the largest sum ever given to a big man. So much for endorsments being hard to come by in Phoenix."


That is sublime (!) Amare is a great, great talent but has really so far proven nothing except that he can score, albeit when he has the point guard playing the best in the game assisting him. As I have said before, one great block on an injured superstar does not make an all around player!

What if he pulls a Shawn Kemp?

Also, PACER FAN above = props for your team- it made great pickups, it showed heart, it seemingly has helped mature Artert/JO/and perhaps even Stephen Jackson, it cut some salary but remains stacked and is still my odds on favorite to come out of the East and give the Spurs a great final series (albeit with the Spurs winning again).

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Thanks for the props. I appreciate it and think we should be able to make some noise this year. Only thing that hurt me other than losing Reg was James Jones. He's gonna be a good player, I wish him all the best in Phoenix.

Now back to the topic. I posted Amares stats BEFORE Nash came to town. Nash raised him 6 in points and took 1 rebound away. Everyone seems to think Nash is the reason he's scoring so much. Amare is the reason he's scoring so much. Why didnt Shawn bradley score 26 points a game with Nash? Or any other center on the Mavs? Its because they dont have the talent that Amare does.....he's doing his thing, and he's only in his 3 yrd, he'll only get better.

The history of the NBA is littered with great scorers that never win a title. The ones that win a title, particularly the bigs, are the ones that play great D as well as O. See Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Mikan. Then see Barkley, Malone.

In my book when Amare can play great D he'll be a great player that can carry a team to a title. Otherwise no title for the Suns unless they can put a great defensive player next to Amare to make up for his shortcomings.

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Originally Posted by picnroll

The history of the NBA is littered with great scorers that never win a title. The ones that win a title, particularly the bigs, are the ones that play great D as well as O. See Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Mikan. Then see Barkley, Malone.

In my book when Amare can play great D he'll be a great player that can carry a team to a title. Otherwise no title for the Suns unless they can put a great defensive player next to Amare to make up for his shortcomings.

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You just lost credibilty when you said Shaq plays D...Shaq really doesnt man, he's even so lazy he never even gets back on the pick and roll, you think its that he doesnt know what to do? or he doesnt care to? Shaq Is big, thats all it is to it.

Shaq doesn't now but he did. He wasn't the greatest but in his younger days he was good. He still plays good low post D as long as players can't slide when they attack like Manu does. Then not many, if any, can effectively defend Manu when he attacks the basket. A lot of the Lakers' and now Miami's vulnerability is Shaq's limitations on D. But that goes in spades for Amare.

The biggest thing about Amare is that well I like his talent and all that name one player (other than Kobe who did take year to mature) who has come from high school and led a championship team.

Amare benefited from a career, less than normal injury year for Nash and a high powered offense. Don't be surprised to see his stats at least scoring drop, if he averages 23 PPG/11 RBG/2.3 BPG I would be more impressed! (Sort of like Duncan numbers!)

Right now I still put Jermaine O'Neal (besides Duncan, Garnett, Shaq) better than him because he does it on both sides! Dirk is also really stepping up in Euros and has to be in the mix too. Don't make this guy a legend yet - it is too damm early! He has incredible potential but somehow he reminds me in every way of one Shawn Kemp who I saw when I lived in Seattle in mannerisms on and off the court!

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Shaq doesn't now but he did. He wasn't the greatest but in his younger days he was good. He still plays good low post D as long as players can't slide when they attack like Manu does. Then not many, if any, can effectively defend Manu when he attacks the basket. A lot of the Lakers' and now Miami's vulnerability is Shaq's limitations on D. But that goes in spades for Amare.

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I feel you on that, and I think Amare's D will improve with time. I'm just tired of people knocking this guy on here. He dominated the Spurs, A Defensive minded team, and you guys still have the heart to knock this guys game? Thats bullshit. Especially saying he didnt shoot any jumpers in game 1 & 2 so he cant shoot them, sometimes I have to wonder the ages of some of the posters on here....

He got insanely hot granted vs. a Spurs team with Duncan laboring on two bad ankles or Nazr still learning the system, Rasho not in the mix after his own ankle injury, or over an "old" Robert Horry! Period end of story. Watch this year as a motivated Duncan (and by reports quicker and lighter)and the Spurs, while not shutting him down, will keep him much more in check!

He is impressive talent, skys the limit, but there are "clouds" in this guys game!

We agree he's a great offensive player and I agree he appears to have the tools to become at least a very good defensive player. But until he does ....

Amare palyed well against the Spurs and TD all year. Man on man Amare can take it outside and hit the jumper if TD lays off or put it on the floor and go by TD if he plays up tight. Just the way it is. But it's team D and frankly the Spurs didn't stop Amare. Of course that may well have been the plan. Not focus too much on Amare and keep everyone else under control. That said there were some tight playoff games where Amare was scoring down the stretch and I doubt that was in the plan.

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Originally Posted by Rummpd

He got insanely hot granted vs. a Spurs team with Duncan laboring on two bad ankles or Nazr still learning the system, Rasho not in the mix after his own ankle injury, or over an "old" Robert Horry! Period end of story. Watch this year as a motivated Duncan (and by reports quicker and lighter)and the Spurs, while not shutting him down, will keep him much more in check!

He is impressive talent, skys the limit, but there are "clouds" in this guys game!

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There are clouds in EVERYBODYS game. Put Duncan on the freethrow line and he'll build you a two story house with all those bricks. Quit blaming it on Duncans injury and give props to the guy. Duncans "2 bad ankles' didnt stop him from scoring 30 33 & 31 so why would it stop him from playing D on Amare?

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Originally Posted by picnroll

We agree he's a great offensive player and I agree he appears to have the tools to become at least a very good defensive player. But until he does ....

Amare palyed well against the Spurs and TD all year. Man on man Amare can take it outside and hit the jumper if TD lays off or put it on the floor and go by TD if he plays up tight. Just the way it is. But it's team D and frankly the Spurs didn't stop Amare. Of course that may well have been the plan. Not focus too much on Amare and keep everyone else under control. That said there were some tight playoff games where Amare was scoring down the stretch and I doubt that was in the plan.

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I was honestly waiting on someone to say this, this could have definately been the whole idea. GREAT POST! Good coaches know this, sometimes you just have to deal with the fact you wont be able to stop certain players, no matter what you do ( Pistons vs Shaq), but what you do is try your best to contain them while shutting down the rest of their teammates. Great coaching job by the Spurs, I feel however had there been a healthy JJ from the start of the series it wouldve been a completely different series ( probably wouldve went to 6 games with the games being a bit closer)

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

Yeah, I guess Amare's screwed because no other PG in the League will help him net open 14-17 foot jumpers. No other guard can create, I guess.

Isn't funny how Nash, who as reguarded as a borderline top-5 PG in the League becomes the unquestioned best alongside Amare? Hmm...

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Please take out your "sun" glasses and look at Nash of Mavs, It's because of him running the point Mavs posted 55(+/- 2) victories for around 3-4 yrs. The guy was underrated with the hype of JKidd that was running during this period.

On the other hand, Suns had an extraordinary season, primarily because of Nash whose playmaking abilities matched with Coach's preferred style of play. If you put Dirk in the same system the pair would have excelled too.

I am not saying Amare sucks or anything, but imo no other PG (incl. Kidd) can bring out the best of his athletic abilties than Nash - Period.

I'd still pick Tim because long term in NBA is 3 yrs. So I'd try to get the best that is available. Ask me 3 yrs from now, then if Amare,Lebron, Dwayne are still doing great, I might pick Amare over Lebron (close call).

I agree with Rumpd though that we didn't see the real Duncan for most of the second half of the year. Pop even said that Duncan last year wasn't performing and couldn't perform like the true MVP Duncan. You don't wan to see the Spurs with a Duncan fully cocked and loaded.

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Originally Posted by romsey31

I was honestly waiting on someone to say this, this could have definately been the whole idea. GREAT POST! Good coaches know this, sometimes you just have to deal with the fact you wont be able to stop certain players, no matter what you do ( Pistons vs Shaq), but what you do is try your best to contain them while shutting down the rest of their teammates. Great coaching job by the Spurs, I feel however had there been a healthy JJ from the start of the series it wouldve been a completely different series (probably wouldve went to 6 games with the games being a bit closer)

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That was Spurs' plan against Suns. If it comes down an ego issue of stopping Amare, Spurs of 04-05 could have definitely done that. They'd not have allowed him to score what 40 ppg. His FG% would have gone down.

But the Spurs chose the other way - Let Amare have his game, control other key contributors.

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He has incredible potential but somehow he reminds me in every way of one Shawn Kemp who I saw when I lived in Seattle in mannerisms on and off the court!

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The Shawn Kemp comparisons seem valid, but look closer and they aren't particuly correct. Sure, both were huge physically amazing players with incredible athleticism who came straight out of High School, but that's about it.

Kemp developed into a versatile offensive player. He had a solid jumpshot with good range and a good array of post moves. He got to the line a lot and converted. He consistently averaged around 19 points whilst playing only around 31/32 minutes a game. Amare is amazing offensively, and actually scores more points than Kemp, but he also gets to play a lot more minutes and attempt a lot more shots. The way Phoenix played is conjusive to scoring a lot of points, so Amare benefits from that. He doesn't have the moves Kemp had or the Jumpshot yet. Of course Kemp took years to develop those things, and Amare probably will, but offensively, pretty much the only similarities between the two at this stage in Amare's career are they both dunk the ball harder than anyone not named Shaq, and they both get to the line a heap. Amare is better offensively by a little bit because he is just so damn good around the hoop, but in terms of there offensive game being very similar, that's not really correct.

Defensively, it isn't even close, Kemp was a slightly better shotblocker in less minutes, very good with his hands (from memory he used to average close to 1.5spg) and far better in a man to man situation as well as team defense. Amare has a long way to go before he is considered a good defender in any other way than shotblocking. Amare will be a better player than Kemp ever was, but they aren't really similar players.

Most importantly Amare doesn't have any white residue around his nostrils.

As for the whole Amare deal, he deserves a Max Deal because he will be a Top 10 player in the league for those 5 years. I'm sure he will iron out what little problems he has offensively, and at least become decent defensively. He seems like the type that would work hard at his game, and dude is going to be downright scary in 3 years, not that he isn't now. It's also nice to see another Superstar whom the Lakers would have gone after locked up by a different team!

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Most importantly Amare doesn't have any white residue around his nostrils.

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And as far as I know at least, he doesn't have 241 illegitimate children around the USA, Canada and parts of Europe.

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Originally Posted by DesiSpur_21

Please take out your "sun" glasses...

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Oh you Spurs fans are so clever... how can I think of ever posting a convincing argument in the face od such overwelming wit.

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On the other hand, Suns had an extraordinary season, primarily because of Nash whose playmaking abilities matched with Coach's preferred style of play. If you put Dirk in the same system the pair would have excelled too.

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Sure. I guess that's why he won the MVP award. Thing is, he never played this well on Dallas when he had equal weapons and a player arguably equal to, if not better (for the moment) than Amare, in Dirk.

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I am not saying Amare sucks or anything, but imo no other PG (incl. Kidd) can bring out the best of his athletic abilties than Nash - Period.

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And I'm not saying he isn't helped by Nash. the moronic argument was made that Nash makes Amare and that once Nash is done, Amare will struggle. I presented facts and stats saying that claim was off. That's all.

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I'd still pick Tim because long term in NBA is 3 yrs. So I'd try to get the best that is available. Ask me 3 yrs from now, then if Amare,Lebron, Dwayne are still doing great, I might pick Amare over Lebron (close call).

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This is a whole 'nother thread from three days ago. I would pick Duncan for up to four more years, but likely only the three you mention, then pick Amare over LeBron, though it would be close.

People need to stop being so anxious to post a response, that they fail to read the actual message and its points/intent.

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Originally Posted by MI21

He doesn't have the moves Kemp had or the Jumpshot yet.

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What are you talking about? :rolleyes Again, the kid has everything an offensive game needs for a low-post big man and a consistant 14-17 foot jumper. He is already as good as Kemp ever was. You act like Kemp was on the 90-point per game Knicks or something. His Sonic teams ran and ran and racked up the points. I believe that's the same style tht's so condusive for Amare.


Does he have his flaws still? Of course, but I guarantee he has worked on them. He's helped by Nash, not made by him. I know this wasn't your argument, but I guess saying many, many times might actually get others to understand.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

People need to stop being so anxious to post a response, that they fail to read the actual message and its points/intent.

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FYI,

I am not the one who jump on to post a message before going through each message in the thread.

On the other hand , you are mixing it up..

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What are you talking about? Again, the kid has everything an offensive game needs for a low-post big man and a consistant 14-17 foot jumper. He is already as good as Kemp ever was. You act like Kemp was on the 90-point per game Knicks or something. His Sonic teams ran and ran and racked up the points. I believe that's the same style tht's so condusive for Amare.

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I wasn't replying to anything you said, I was replying to the statement that Kemp was a similar player to Amare, nothing to do with whom was better. Believe what you will, but Kemp had a far better jumpshot with more range than Amare and better post moves, but even with that he wasn't as dominant as Amare is.

Did you read when I said this?

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Amare is better offensively by a little bit because he is just so damn good around the hoop, but in terms of there offensive game being very similar, that's not really correct.

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and also this..

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As for the whole Amare deal, he deserves a Max Deal because he will be a Top 10 player in the league for those 5 years. I'm sure he will iron out what little problems he has offensively, and at least become decent defensively. He seems like the type that would work hard at his game, and dude is going to be downright scary in 3 years, not that he isn't now. It's also nice to see another Superstar whom the Lakers would have gone after locked up by a different team!

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I rate Amare highly, and what he did to Tim offensively in the playoffs was downright scary. But how he handled a very limited Tim Duncan defensively was scary for another reason. He is amazing, but he isn't perfect, so don't go rolling your eyes at me and acting like I don't know what I'm talking about, because I do.

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Originally Posted by DesiSpur_21

FYI,

I am not the one who jump on to post a message before going through each message in the thread.

On the other hand , you are mixing it up..

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You're right. I should have specified that paragraph. It wasn't meant towards you.

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Originally Posted by MI21

I wasn't replying to anything you said, I was replying to the statement that Kemp was a similar player to Amare, nothing to do with whom was better. Believe what you will, but Kemp had a far better jumpshot with more range than Amare and better post moves, but even with that he wasn't as dominant as Amare is.

Did you read when I said this?

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Yes, I highlighted the portion I wa responding to. I agreed with the rest. I don't feel as if the majority here has really seen Amare past the few games vs. the Spurs this season. They weren't on National TV very often because they weren't expected to do very well.

It's gotten to a point, that when Amare is open for that jumper, from just about any angle, you're kind of surprised if it doesn't go in. It's a very reliable jumper from 14-17 feet.

As for the post moves, I just don't think so, but hey, difference of opinions. Kemp was very good, but as you said, rarely dominated the way he could have. Why? Who knows. Amare has gotten better eery year. He's added a weapon every offseason. I know it wasn't you who said it, but my intent in this thread is to argue that Nash helps, but doesn't make Amare.

Sorry if I fired in the wrong direction.

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Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

And by the way, basing your opinion on Amare from just 5 games is rediculous. Else one would have to think that Marion sucks big time and that Richardson is no better than a 12th-man scrub.

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Originally Posted by Sense

it shouldn't be ridiculous.. it's the playoffs.

Nothing matters until you get to the playoffs,

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simply owned.

simply.

Sense just totally regulated on you, omg...

Yeah, I'm completely humbled :rolleyes

Yeah, the Suns should just cut that scrub Marion right now...