Spurs are ranked 26th in 3-point attempts

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Originally Posted by TD 21

They were 3rd in efficiency last season, but they lacked the ability to go off for a bunch of points in a short burst. Against the contenders, they struggled mightily to blow games and make up big deficits.

Considering they're back to playing at a glacial pace and can't get to the line to save their lives, volume three-point shooting is a must.

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Volume three point shooting won't be there unless the bigs dive in PnRs -- its the action that opens up the weakside of the floor. It's the action that makes passing an important weapon as the defense has to move, bend and break. With the pick and Pop long 2 action ( which we saw a TON last year with Aldridge/West + TDs and Boris' decline to dive effectively), passing or swinging the ball to the weakside isn't as potent as the weakside spot up shooters are typically guarded by balanced defenders instead of being guarded by a late or off balanced close out.

I'm surprised people still ignore this after I've posted about it ad nauseam.

Adding just another shooter won't increase the attempts, unless the actions in the offense change to more of the 13'-15' style. Having Dedmon take on Wests' minutes should increase the attempts -- especially for the 2nd unit.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Volume three point shooting won't be there unless the bigs dive in PnRs -- its the action that opens up the weakside of the floor. It's the action that makes passing an important weapon as the defense has to move, bend and break. With the pick and Pop long 2 action ( which we saw a TON last year with Aldridge/West + TDs and Boris' decline to dive effectively), passing or swinging the ball to the weakside isn't as potent as the weakside spot up shooters are typically guarded by balanced defenders instead of being guarded by a late or off balanced close out.

I'm surprised people still ignore this after I've posted about it ad nauseam.

Adding just another shooter won't increase the attempts, unless the actions in the offense change to more of the 13'-15' style. Having Dedmon take on Wests' minutes should increase the attempts -- especially for the 2nd unit.

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I know, but volume three-point shooters are still required. Even when they had it, Parker and Diaw, despite the decent or better percentages, didn't take many. I realize that was mostly when Parker was still an elite breakdown player and they needed him to be the primary creator (still do actually, he's just no longer capable), but still.

We'll see with Anderson and Simmons, but at this writing, it's not exactly their specialty either.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

They were 3rd in efficiency last season, but they lacked the ability to go off for a bunch of points in a short burst. Against the contenders, they struggled mightily to blow games and make up big deficits.

Considering they're back to playing at a glacial pace and can't get to the line to save their lives, volume three-point shooting is a must.

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You make a fair point if volume three-point shooting includes accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Solid D

You make a fair point if volume three-point shooting includes accuracy.

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Obviously, that's ideal, but either way, a team that's bottom 5 or 6 in attempts can't win a championship in this era.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Volume three point shooting won't be there unless the bigs dive in PnRs -- its the action that opens up the weakside of the floor. It's the action that makes passing an important weapon as the defense has to move, bend and break. With the pick and Pop long 2 action ( which we saw a TON last year with Aldridge/West + TDs and Boris' decline to dive effectively), passing or swinging the ball to the weakside isn't as potent as the weakside spot up shooters are typically guarded by balanced defenders instead of being guarded by a late or off balanced close out.

I'm surprised people still ignore this after I've posted about it ad nauseam.

Adding just another shooter won't increase the attempts, unless the actions in the offense change to more of the 13'-15' style. Having Dedmon take on Wests' minutes should increase the attempts -- especially for the 2nd unit.

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Good post. You have educated me on that point long ago, and I am a believer.
The starting lineup just needs Danny to be back to himself. 10% less on his percentages at the volume he shoots is a big difference over the course of a season. Not much can be done about Tony I guess, but I don't want to deviate into a Tony thread.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

The starting lineup just needs Danny to be back to himself. 10% less on his percentages at the volume he shoots is a big difference over the course of a season.

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I hope you're right.

But three of Spurs' five best players are over 35 years old, their best guard and playmaker is 39 years old...I wouldn't expect this team can run or have a high success rate on drive & kicks.

That's why in today era of three-point shooting and fast-paced teams, the Spurs are a mid-range team ranked T-25th in pace last season. They have no other alternative but to post-up, slow the pace, and hit mid-js.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

I hope you're right.

But three of Spurs' five best players are over 35 years old, their best guard and playmaker is 39 years old...I wouldn't expect this team can run or have a high success rate on drive & kicks.

That's why in today era of three-point shooting and fast-paced teams, the Spurs are a mid-range team ranked T-25th in pace last season. They have no other alternative but to post-up, slow the pace, and hit mid-js.

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Which three of our Top 5 are over 35? I assume you mean Pau, Manu and Parker (34, and will be 35 in the playoffs if we have a decent run)

That said, I agree with your point.

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Originally Posted by BillMc

Which three of our Top 5 are over 35? I assume you mean Pau, Manu and Parker (34, and will be 35 in the playoffs if we have a decent run)

That said, I agree with your point.

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:tu

Yes, Manu, Parker and Pau, that's what I meant.

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Originally Posted by BillMc

Which three of our Top 5 are over 35? I assume you mean Pau, Manu and Parker (34, and will be 35 in the playoffs if we have a decent run)

That said, I agree with your point.

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Sorry, I forgot to say thanks for posting Parker's current age.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

I hope you're right.

But three of Spurs' five best players are over 35 years old, their best guard and playmaker is 39 years old...I wouldn't expect this team can run or have a high success rate on drive & kicks.

That's why in today era of three-point shooting and fast-paced teams, the Spurs are a mid-range team ranked T-25th in pace last season. They have no other alternative but to post-up, slow the pace, and hit mid-js.

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Pop had choice this season to go in another direction with a different big than Pau, but chose Pau bc no one is going to beat the dubs at their own game. It's a thing beyond aging once Tim retired. Now Pop was deliberate in team construction. I guess he deems the dubs too good at what they do and Pop is not going down that road with them. He's a defensive minded coach and if GSW thrive in transition and taking shots early in the clock to create havock then Pop needs to go the other way to take them out of their own game. It's more than just about youth. No one is going to beat the dubs Dantoni style.

The presence of Pau also provides the team in general with a 3rd veteran scoring option to mix and match with the bench if they are struggling, so it all points to Pop looking for others to shoulder the burden in the bench. If Manu is among the team's best 5 players they are in trouble. You can quote me on that right now and I was stating that all season too. Not a knock on Manu but it's just a reflection of Spurs others need to step up. They need Kawhi/LMA/Pau/Danny/Tony to be their best players, with an assortment of bench players adding variety. Now of course a whole lot of fans have doubts Simmons, Anderson and Dedmon can shoulder the bunch burden, but they must and I believe they can. It's going to take a village, but I am optimistic about the team. Now obviously if Pop goes same old, same old, then he will get the same old, same old results. Sometimes (ok often) I am pessimistic about Pop, but I believe Manu's impending retirement and age is going to push him to innovate and look to others more in the bench and he should also be pushing Kawhi to get more of the burden on offense to create, specially in the 4th Q.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Sorry, I forgot to say thanks for posting Parker's current age.

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No thanks needed bro. :toast

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

. No one is going to beat the dubs Dantoni style.

If Manu is among the team's best 5 players they are in trouble. You can quote me on that right now and I was stating that all season too. Not a knock on Manu but it's just a reflection of Spurs others need to step up. They need Kawhi/LMA/Pau/Danny/Tony to be their best players, with an assortment of bench players adding variety.

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I agree no one is going to beat Dubs like that. Pop is probably looking to beat them with size. Our Frontcourt it truly ferocious and I think Pop hopes that the dubs will have a hard time with the skill and size of Pau, LMA and Kawhi. Hopefully Draymond will look small and Durant thin and brittle. We'll see. It may not work but it is a real strategy. Go with what makes you the best team not necessarily the best match-up. Very few teams should have a prayer against our frontcourt.

I agree that it would be best for the team if Manu were not in our top 5. Ideally the crew you mention (our starters) would be the 5 best and someone on the bench would play well enough that Manu is not automatically the bench savior. We will see who can step up to that position if anyone. Manu is here now for his leadership more than anything, we really need a "new bench" playmaker to emerge this season.

All this is obvious. In summary, my hope is 1) Pop can stay big this season against the Dubs and everyone else. 2) we find someone as good as old Manu among our bench guys to phase him out. Obviously, no one will match prime Manu or even 2014 Manu, but someone who can take the baton into the future.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Volume three point shooting won't be there unless the bigs dive in PnRs -- its the action that opens up the weakside of the floor. It's the action that makes passing an important weapon as the defense has to move, bend and break. With the pick and Pop long 2 action ( which we saw a TON last year with Aldridge/West + TDs and Boris' decline to dive effectively), passing or swinging the ball to the weakside isn't as potent as the weakside spot up shooters are typically guarded by balanced defenders instead of being guarded by a late or off balanced close out.

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You can still generate 3s without a roll man, just look at the 2010 Lakers who matched the Suns output in the WCF after the Suns had bombed out the Spurs/Blazers w/ 3s. ('09-'10 Suns had a BETTER ORtg than the '15-'16 Duds) As I also mentioned in another post, the current Spurs have a personnel similar to the 2008-10 Lakers except for Porker not being a catch-and-shoot threat like Fisher which screws up the spacing.

This is why George Hill would have been a much better fit than Porker since he's an elite catch-and-shoot PG ala Patty but can actually handle his assignment on the other end. He could have also been used similar to how the Mavs used Terry by letting him run PnPs w/ LMA or just spot up. It would also alleviate Kawhi from having to guard the likes of WestBrick. (MVP Kirby was atrocious in the 2008 Finals when he had to guard Pierce for 48 minutes)

Bottom line is that either Porker has to turn a catch-and-shoot threat or the team has to find another PG who can do the job even if it means moving Patty. (Why did Darren Collison have to hit his wife....?:bang)

hmmm is this Lamarcus 3 pt shooting?

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

hmmm is this Lamarcus 3 pt shooting?

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I don't like his form, nor his movement.

With Steph and Klay and KD out there, you're going to have a hard time out 3pt shooting them. In fact, many teams now have better 3pt shooters than the Spurs. At least the mid range gives guys time to get back on defense and a remote chance at an offensive board if they crashed the boards. Long 3's are long rebounds and often fast breaks with Tony Parker trying to defend the break, and Danny having to chase someone down.

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Originally Posted by DMC

With Steph and Klay and KD out there, you're going to have a hard time out 3pt shooting them. In fact, many teams now have better 3pt shooters than the Spurs. At least the mid range gives guys time to get back on defense and a remote chance at an offensive board if they crashed the boards. Long 3's are long rebounds and often fast breaks with Tony Parker trying to defend the break, and Danny having to chase someone down.

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I am increasingly thinking it would be wisest to start reviving the Bad Boys when it comes to them. Go Michael Jordan Rules. Get in their heads, even when you play straight. With Pops' heavy rotation habits in the RS- I would think about employing a more heavy handed defense, so to speak and getting the refs used to what the team just... does.

I don't know... just a thought.

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Originally Posted by tonight...you

I am increasingly thinking it would be wisest to start reviving the Bad Boys when it comes to them. Go Michael Jordan Rules. Get in their heads, even when you play straight. With Pops' heavy rotation habits in the RS- I would think about employing a more heavy handed defense, so to speak and getting the refs used to what the team just... does.

I don't know... just a thought.

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Not the Spurs style, but watching the training camp photos, I think Pop will go with the twin towers and see where that takes them.

Also I wonder at all those photos of Kawhi with the bench. There is a lot of experimentation early I am guessing but I have a suspicion that maybe will make Kiwi fans upset, mind you this is not my idea. It's just an observation. With no dominant bench player and Kyle still having to prove he can be that guy, Pop may just simply bring Kawhi out early in the game and sub him back in with the bench players. Basically Kawhi still plays a lot of minutes but a good amount helping the bench. Kyle plays with the starters some minutes who have scoring options and don't need to rely on him to be playing above his big head (joke for the haters bc heh!).

It's anyone's guess how Pop will deal with the bench, but they can survive for a long season with a committee approach. The playoffs are different. The argument could be made had Pop staggered the few minutes Kyle did see in the playoffs with the starters so that the bench was not so devoid in scoring power and creation, having Kawhi help the bench out, maybe they don't sink last playoffs. Technically it was just 8 minutes and Kyle's defense on Durant wasn't the problematic issue, it was the entirety of bench scoring. Maybe Kyle could have helped or not. I think his lack of a 3 pt shot was a problem, but also the entire bench was really disfunctional. Kyle shooting the 3 makes him able to fit with other lineups more and space the floor for other ppl, but the bench needs shot creation more than 3 pt shooting if we are honest.

Here's the photos:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spur...?itok=aHY6HPaQ
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spur...?itok=VkIh3kKJ

Initially I thought Pop was testing the viability of perimeter based bench lineups to even start, bc if they don't work out with Kawhi, how can Pop expect them to work out with Kyle or Bertans? Then it occurred to me that to make the scrimmages more competitive Pop has to split the stars up a little bc Manu is no longer who he was. Why would Kawhi be the bench anchor? It has to be significant.

YGWHI had his ideas, like establishing the PnR and PnP game with Tony without Kawhi's presence, but really the answer must involve several factors, including the reconstituted bench.

All of these are just musings, interesting observations, nothing more. I guess they could spark debate (or trolling). Common here both.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Not the Spurs style, but watching the training camp photos, I think Pop will go with the twin towers and see where that takes them.

Also I wonder at all those photos of Kawhi with the bench. There is a lot of experimentation early I am guessing but I have a suspicion that maybe will make Kiwi fans upset, mind you this is not my idea. It's just an observation. With no dominant bench player and Kyle still having to prove he can be that guy, Pop may just simply bring Kawhi out early in the game and sub him back in with the bench players. Basically Kawhi still plays a lot of minutes but a good amount helping the bench. Kyle plays with the starters some minutes who have scoring options and don't need to rely on him to be playing above his big head (joke for the haters bc heh!). I

t's anyone's guess how Pop will deal with the bench, but they can survive for a long season with a committee approach. The playoffs are different. The argument could be made had Pop staggered the few minutes Kyle did see in the playoffs with the starters so that the bench was not so devoid in scoring power and creation, having Kawhi help the bench out, maybe they don't sink last playoffs. Technically it was just 8 minutes and Kyle's defense on Durant wasn't the problematic issue, it was the entirety of bench scoring. Maybe Kyle could have helped or not. I think his lack of a 3 pt shot was a problem, but also the entire bench was really disfunctional. Kyle shooting the 3 makes him able to fit with other lineups more and space the floor for other ppl, but the bench needs shot creation more than 3 pt shooting if we are honest.

Here's the photos:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spur...?itok=aHY6HPaQ
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spur...?itok=VkIh3kKJ

Initially I thought Pop was testing the viability of perimeter based bench lineups to even start, bc if they don't work out with Kawhi, how can Pop expect them to work out with Kyle or Bertans. Then it occurred to me that to make the scrimmages more competitive Pop has to split the stars up a little bc Manu is no longer who he was. Why would Kawhi be the bench anchor? It has to be significant.

YGWI had his ideas, like establishing the PnR and PnP game with Tony without Kawhi's presence, but really the answer must involve several factors, including the reconstituted bench.

All of these are just musings, interesting observations, nothing more. I guess they could spark debate (or trolling). Common here both.

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Let me preface this with: I'm tired and skimmed through your post. No offense. I just want to talk about Pop and what he's willing to do.

ANYTHING.

He went from the Twin Towers and the High-Low to the 4-Down. From Bowen funneling to Timmy to Team D on a wire. From simple stuff on offense to The Beautiful Game.
Pop, if he sees that he needs to go Pat Riley on a certain team, I could see him possibly going for it, in the playoffs. And that requires setting a tone from the beginning of the season.

Just my wildness coming out here... I don't expect my words to happen, but I could see them happening.

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Originally Posted by tonight...you

Let me preface this with: I'm tired and skimmed through your post. No offense. I just want to talk about Pop and what he's willing to do.

ANYTHING.

He went from the Twin Towers and the High-Low to the 4-Down. From Bowen funneling to Timmy to Team D on a wire. From simple stuff on offense to The Beautiful Game.
Pop, if he sees that he needs to go Pat Riley on a certain team, I could see him possibly going for it, in the playoffs. And that requires setting a tone from the beginning of the season.

Just my wildness coming out here... I don't expect my words to happen, but I could see them happening.

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:lol hmmm ok. I can see you tired and cranky. lol ... I don't know. Spurs don't have a player like that begin with IMO. (I don't know Dedmon though)

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

:lol hmmm ok. I can see you tired and cranky. lol ... I don't know. Spurs don't have a player like that begin with IMO. (I don't know Dedmon though)

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You don't have to be a "goon" to follow a gameplan/order. Every player there will throw a hard foul down, if told.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Not the Spurs style, but watching the training camp photos, I think Pop will go with the twin towers and see where that takes them.

Also I wonder at all those photos of Kawhi with the bench. There is a lot of experimentation early I am guessing but I have a suspicion that maybe will make Kiwi fans upset, mind you this is not my idea. It's just an observation. With no dominant bench player and Kyle still having to prove he can be that guy, Pop may just simply bring Kawhi out early in the game and sub him back in with the bench players. Basically Kawhi still plays a lot of minutes but a good amount helping the bench. Kyle plays with the starters some minutes who have scoring options and don't need to rely on him to be playing above his big head (joke for the haters bc heh!).

It's anyone's guess how Pop will deal with the bench, but they can survive for a long season with a committee approach. The playoffs are different. The argument could be made had Pop staggered the few minutes Kyle did see in the playoffs with the starters so that the bench was not so devoid in scoring power and creation, having Kawhi help the bench out, maybe they don't sink last playoffs. Technically it was just 8 minutes and Kyle's defense on Durant wasn't the problematic issue, it was the entirety of bench scoring. Maybe Kyle could have helped or not. I think his lack of a 3 pt shot was a problem, but also the entire bench was really disfunctional. Kyle shooting the 3 makes him able to fit with other lineups more and space the floor for other ppl, but the bench needs shot creation more than 3 pt shooting if we are honest.

Here's the photos:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spur...?itok=aHY6HPaQ
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spur...?itok=VkIh3kKJ

Initially I thought Pop was testing the viability of perimeter based bench lineups to even start, bc if they don't work out with Kawhi, how can Pop expect them to work out with Kyle or Bertans? Then it occurred to me that to make the scrimmages more competitive Pop has to split the stars up a little bc Manu is no longer who he was. Why would Kawhi be the bench anchor? It has to be significant.

YGWHI had his ideas, like establishing the PnR and PnP game with Tony without Kawhi's presence, but really the answer must involve several factors, including the reconstituted bench.

All of these are just musings, interesting observations, nothing more. I guess they could spark debate (or trolling). Common here both.

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Who is that leaving Kawhi behind in the first pic?

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Originally Posted by tonight...you

Let me preface this with: I'm tired and skimmed through your post. No offense. I just want to talk about Pop and what he's willing to do.

ANYTHING.

He went from the Twin Towers and the High-Low to the 4-Down. From Bowen funneling to Timmy to Team D on a wire. From simple stuff on offense to The Beautiful Game.
Pop, if he sees that he needs to go Pat Riley on a certain team, I could see him possibly going for it, in the playoffs. And that requires setting a tone from the beginning of the season.

Just my wildness coming out here... I don't expect my words to happen, but I could see them happening.

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Indeed, Pop has shown pretty remarkable ability to adapt to changing personnel from season to season. Ironically, while he goes mad scientist during the season especially prior to the All-Star break, he becomes pretty rigid within each new system during the latter part of the season and the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Who is that leaving Kawhi behind in the first pic?

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Tony coming off a pick from Pau.
It is early really to comment on this, maybe I jumped the gun. I guess we will see more and eventually the playoffs will show all there is to show.
The benefit of a youngish team is that guys have upside and things can change later in the season from where they started but I found it really curious Kawhi was playing with the bench.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Indeed, Pop has shown pretty remarkable ability to adapt to changing personnel from season to season. Ironically, while he goes mad scientist during the season especially prior to the All-Star break, he becomes pretty rigid within each new system during the latter part of the season and the playoffs.

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Obviously haven't followed the team as long, but I think he finds whatever works the best for his particular team and once he believes he found the best version of the team, he does stick rigidly to what works. He's had Manu and Diaw who he can move to start if he feels he needs them, but they were established commodities and those are no longer options (Diaw gone, Manu on minutes restrictions is now truly realistically a strict bench player). Beyond that others can school me, I haven't known the Spurs long, and I think it's an interesting subject.

All of these are more observations from my part at any rate, nothing I am arguing, or debating or making a contested hot take about.