The Starting Unit

Put a firecracker up Danny Green's dissappearing ass and make him play or gtfo.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I think TD cramps spacing. You don't agree fine. It's a factor in both LMA and Kawhi getting doubled inside or not being able to get to the basket. Tony is the second factor. Lately he has been pushed to play off the ball more, but that is not his game. He will still default to dribble dribble when things break down.

They are very slow as well which makes them easier to defend and very predictable. I don't think you can do anything at this point. It is due to two things: fit and personnel.

The playoffs are a different monster and hopefully Pop has wrinkles to throw in his bag of tricks.

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I knew this predictable response was coming. A lot of you seem to think most teams play 48 minutes with pristine spacing and the Spurs are stuck in the dark ages, but the reality is, most teams still start and play the majority of their minutes, with a center, who's range is elbows in.

Also, while Duncan-Splitter had their moments/match-ups, they mostly worked and Aldridge thrived playing next to Lopez.

The spacing isn't ideal, but there should be enough to get by. A lack of intensity to start games, play making and Green shooting uncharacteristically poorly, are bigger issues. Still, they should be better than they are.

What's going on with Kevin Martin Status? Is he coming or not. I think Martin is going to help out a lot and Danny green could be trade bait this offseason.

Problem with Starting Unit....Parker and Green is our backcourt.

Green has not been good this year, and Parker is just inconsistent. When Parker is in his "slowly dribble to 3 point line, pass it...and watch" mode....our starting backcourt is just flat out terrible. Start anyone else, imho.

I would like to see Kyle in place of Parker, but this is not happening

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I think TD cramps spacing. You don't agree fine. It's a factor in both LMA and Kawhi getting doubled inside or not being able to get to the basket. Tony is the second factor. Lately he has been pushed to play off the ball more, but that is not his game. He will still default to dribble dribble when things break down.

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Agree. In the second quarter against Indiana Kawhi had Monta guarding him, he tried to post up but Tim was there and didn't move quickly. Spacing is an issue with Tim instead of Boris or DWest but also the defense in the paint is an issue with these two guys...

And sadly, Parker isn't a facilitator. But Pop isn't going to bench him so people need to stop expecting that...

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Also, while Duncan-Splitter had their moments/match-ups, they mostly worked and Aldridge thrived playing next to Lopez.

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But the Blazers had two offensive threats in the same backcourt who created space...

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

FYI, RPM rankings for starting players at their respective positions:

Parker- #21
Green- #8
Kawhi- #1
Aldridge- #28
Duncan- #5

RPM has it's flaws, of course, and you can explain the low rankings, too, but just posting it as food for thought..

The offensive struggles aren't by design, of course, but the ugly, slow-paced, ISO-oriented style seemingly is..Parker/Leonard/Aldridge are carrying the load, with Duncan and Green playing peripheral roles as finishers(3-point finisher, in DG's case)..without relying on ball movement and distribution of scoring, you're going to have ugly results when one of Kawhi/Aldridge/Parker isn't producing..that's just the Spurs' offense, at this point..

Defensive rankings at their positions in RPM, FYI:

Green: #2
Kawhi: #1
Duncan: #1

Pop is riding with Kawhi/DG/Duncan as his defensive core on a slow-paced, defense-first team..I've made my skepticism of the style of play clear since the beginning of the season(in my 40+ page Aldridge thread), but can't really argue with the results, so far..

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The issue is this is the only style that will work with that group for obvious reasons. For the playoffs there will probably be wrinkles introduced and dynamics changed. 2 most recent game changers are Mills and Anderson. Manu was always a dynamic game changer, but this postseason there are hopefully some others. I have a suspicion that if they are waiting for Manu to bail them out like he did all early season we will be in trouble. No knock on Manu but I have been calling all season for Pop to get the younger guys to do more and I think as the season has developed he has, bc not only Danny got in a groove in January, but LMA stepped up his production and younger guys broke out. Several useful situational players have emerged too, who can change dynamics. So we'll see, but I don't think we have the best chance to win a title with the same old same old like we saw with Messina' s conservative adjustments (or lack thereof).

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Originally Posted by TD 21

I knew this predictable response was coming. A lot of you seem to think most teams play 48 minutes with pristine spacing and the Spurs are stuck in the dark ages, but the reality is, most teams still start and play the majority of their minutes, with a center, who's range is elbows in.

Also, while Duncan-Splitter had their moments/match-ups, they mostly worked and Aldridge thrived playing next to Lopez.

The spacing isn't ideal, but there should be enough to get by. A lack of intensity to start games, play making and Green shooting uncharacteristically poorly, are bigger issues. Still, they should be better than they are.

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Problem is that TD is not giving us much offensively while clogging the paint. He's occupying premium space and shooting terribly from there.

They are bored. It's obvious. This is a grind. When you can recover most of the time, you sometimes procrastinate. They need to go out with a do or die mentality in a few games, Pop needs to tell them he wants to be up by 10 after 1. He won't, because he doesn't give two shits about any of that. He just wants them to stay healthy and learn the system.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

But the Blazers had two offensive threats in the same backcourt who created space...

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The point is, the narrative that Aldridge struggles offensively next to a center who can't space the floor, is false.

Besides, reputation plays a significant role in defense. Green has too much recent history of elite three-point shooting for teams to disrespect him or at least respect him less than before.

Parker isn't exactly Curry or Lillard, but he's not Rondo or Rubio either.

Again, though obviously not ideal, the spacing is adequate.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Problem is that TD is not giving us much offensively while clogging the paint. He's occupying premium space and shooting terribly from there.

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Lopez played/plays the same role Duncan is now playing, minus Duncan's high post passing. Aldridge had his best seasons playing next to him and has said he loved playing with him.

The "Duncan is done offensively" narrative ignores the knee issue. At this point, there's no way to know the answer, but of all fans, Spurs fans should know more than anybody about prematurely writing players off; particularly this player.

I was not writing TD or the team off, pointing to Lopez and Portland is an entirely different team, dynamics and offense. Even LMA game has changed from Portland. Issue is not only the space in the paint, but the pace, and Tony not being a pass first PG who can play off the ball. I pointed to issues of fit and personnel bc play e rd are who they are and old players are limited at this point. There could possibly be even worse spacing issues when the high lo pass to LMA is not there bc the other big sags off TD daring him to take midrange shots.

In the playoffs there will likely be wrinkles introduced bc this unit is indeed in trouble scoring at times and depending on heroics from lma and Kawhi too much.

I mean I hope I am wrong but it would not be the worst thing for TD to reinforce the bench at times too. They have severe issues rebounding and boxing out bugs at times. Pop will make whatever adjustments are needed.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I was not writing TD or the team off, pointing to Lopez and Portland is an entirely different team, dynamics and offense. Even LMA game has changed from Portland. Issue is not only the space in the paint, but the pace, and Tony not being a pass first PG who can play off the ball. I pointed to issues of fit and personnel bc play e rd are who they are and old players are limited at this point. There could possibly be even worse spacing issues when the high lo pass to LMA is not there bc the other big sags off TD daring him to take midrange shots.

In the playoffs there will likely be wrinkles introduced bc this unit is indeed in trouble scoring at times and depending on heroics from lma and Kawhi too much.

I mean I hope I am wrong but it would not be the worst thing for TD to reinforce the bench at times too. They have severe issues rebounding and boxing out bugs at times. Pop will make whatever adjustments are needed.

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I understand, but you can't say "Duncan is clogging the offense", then ignore the fact that Lopez did the same thing with the Trail Blazers, while Aldridge enjoyed his best years. By the way, the Trail Blazers also played slow and Lillard is also not a pass first point guard, though he's obviously a better shooter.

No question, the starting lineup has issues offensively, particularly on the road, against .500 or better teams. I just don't buy the "lack of spacing" notion, though like I said, it's obviously not ideal.

They'll never move Duncan to the bench, nor should they. Besides, it's not like the starters play the amount together that most starters do.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I think TD cramps spacing. You don't agree fine. It's a factor in both LMA and Kawhi getting doubled inside or not being able to get to the basket. Tony is the second factor. Lately he has been pushed to play off the ball more, but that is not his game. He will still default to dribble dribble when things break down.

They are very slow as well which makes them easier to defend and very predictable. I don't think you can do anything at this point. It is due to two things: fit and personnel.

The playoffs are a different monster and hopefully Pop has wrinkles to throw in his bag of tricks.

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TD is essientally Splitter now in terms of spacing. Its really noticable when you compare it to the West starting Lineup. Having two elite mid range floor spacing bigs is never a band thing to an offense.
That being said, the Spurs are still a + team when Duncan starts ( i think by 5 pts per 100 possesions) so i don't think its a major issue. So long as the Spurs aren't getting outscored and can gain some seperation in those starting minutes I think that the Spurs are fine.

I would like to see more West/Diaw and LMA minutes in games where Duncan plays. I wouldn't be opposed to see the Spurs ,maybe, play Duncan the first six minutes of each half and the last six minutes of the second and fourth (24 mpg). I think the offense will be better for it the spurs are something like +11 and +19 poits per 100 posessions when West/ LMA or Diaw and LMA are paired together.

STARTERS

LMA
Diaw
Kawhi
Manu
Miller

Kawhi and LMA are prime superstars, Diaw, Manu and Miller are all fantastic and very willing passers. They can leave everything up to Kawhi and LMA and thrive off the scraps when they get double teamed. Boris can do a little of everything. Manu needs to hit his open threes and create for the frontcourt and Miller is one of the smartest and most willing passers in history. Everyone can shoot from distance in that lineup except the professor.

BENCH

Duncan
West
Green
Martin
Parker

Duncan and Parker can have a breather by mainly playing against the other teams bench instead of prime superstar starters which may make their games more effective given their age and miles. West is tough and can score inside and hit from midrange, Parker can get to the rim, facilitate and Martin and Green can go nuts from down town.

Finish off the games with whoever has their game faces on. I didn't even mention Patty, Anderson, Simmons and Boban who all fit specific roles in limited minutes. Oh the pitfalls of having such a deep team!