Is Tim Duncan A Top 5 All-Time Defender?

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Originally Posted by Drom John

NBA/ABA (which matches the NBA list till Artis Gilmore at #11) Career 93.92Defensive Win Shares

1) 133.64 Bill Russell
2) 105.72 Tim Duncan
3) 94.49 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) 94.47 Hakeem Olajuwon
5) 93.92 Wilt Chamberlain

That fits my eye test.

10) David Robinson
11) Artis Gilmore
29) Moses Malone
39) Dennis Rodman
44) Caldwell Jones
57) Kevin Willis
74) Robert Horry
76) Manu Ginobili
81) Tony Parker
84) Kurt Thomas
109) Antonio McDyess
119) David West
140) Dominique Wilkins
149) Bruce Bowen late peak
150) Billy Paultz
159) Mychal Thompson
161) Doc Rivers
163) Tyrone Corbin
170) Richard Jefferson
175) George Johnson
183) Louie Dampier
187) Andre Miller
189) Alvin Robertson
190) Hedo Turkoglu
197) Theo Ratliff
215) Larry Kenon
227) LaMarcus Aldridge
229) George Gervin
235) Michael Finley
241) Paul Pressey

Honorable mention, on NBA only list:
248) Boris Diaw

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Dominique? Richard Jefferson?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drom John

NBA/ABA (which matches the NBA list till Artis Gilmore at #11) Career 93.92Defensive Win Shares

1) 133.64 Bill Russell
2) 105.72 Tim Duncan
3) 94.49 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) 94.47 Hakeem Olajuwon
5) 93.92 Wilt Chamberlain

That fits my eye test.

10) David Robinson
11) Artis Gilmore
29) Moses Malone
39) Dennis Rodman
44) Caldwell Jones
57) Kevin Willis
74) Robert Horry
76) Manu Ginobili
81) Tony Parker
84) Kurt Thomas
109) Antonio McDyess
119) David West
140) Dominique Wilkins
149) Bruce Bowen late peak
150) Billy Paultz
159) Mychal Thompson
161) Doc Rivers
163) Tyrone Corbin
170) Richard Jefferson
175) George Johnson
183) Louie Dampier
187) Andre Miller
189) Alvin Robertson
190) Hedo Turkoglu
197) Theo Ratliff
215) Larry Kenon
227) LaMarcus Aldridge
229) George Gervin
235) Michael Finley
241) Paul Pressey

Honorable mention, on NBA only list:
248) Boris Diaw

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Any defensive list where Dominique Wilkins is ahead of Bruce loses a very large amount of credibility

Tim is a very underrated, outstanding defender but cmon on the top 5 all time thing. You gotta get at least one DPOY.

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Originally Posted by steeledl

I think so but you aren't really going to get unbiased opinions here......

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/thread

Garnett, Ben Wallace, & Tim are the best defenders of their generation by a country mile. (Bowen was just a 1-on-1 defender & Artest had a short run)

Tim/Pippen are the best defenders to never win DPOY.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Defensive win shares is not a great metrics to judge individual defensive impact tbh

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Then I'll play the eye test.
I saw Russell play most of his career.
I've seen Duncan, since his first game at Wake Forest. Duncan was wow! good the first time he dominated Eric Montrose.
Russell always looked better.

BTW, have you ever read "tbh" is a post and didn't immediately deduct honesty posts?
Me neither.

Nothing in your post deserved to be diminished by "tbh."

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Originally Posted by BillMc

Dominique? Richard Jefferson?

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Long careers, weak as Spurs.
Dominique as a Hawk, and Jefferson as a Net were solid.

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Originally Posted by Blake

Any defensive list where Dominique Wilkins is ahead of Bruce loses a very large amount of credibility

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Anybody unaware of how unused and unimpressive Bowen was till his last year in Miami is probably a Spur homer who cannot distinguish rate stats from counting stats.
Bowen as a Spur was great. But Bruce's career was relatively short. Wilkins as a Spur, not so great.

As you remember watching the young Dominique in Atlanta, 'Nique was pretty impressive defensively. Moderately active, with hands in the right place. Can't think of a Spur, but a more interior Kevin Durant isn't far off. 57th all-time in steals, Bowen not in top #250. #182 all-time in blocks, Bowen not top #250.

I'll take Bowen's best years, but there's not many of them. There were many more pretty good Wilkins years.

Duncans defense is definitely underrated due to him never winning a Defensive player of the year award.



Check out the 1:40 mark of the video below. One of my favorite defensive sequences that I can remember.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPfyrPz66IEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPfyrPz66IE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drom John

Then I'll play the eye test.
I saw Russell play most of his career.
I've seen Duncan, since his first game at Wake Forest. Duncan was wow! good the first time he dominated Eric Montrose.
Russell always looked better.

BTW, have you ever read "tbh" is a post and didn't immediately deduct honesty posts?
Me neither.

Nothing in your post deserved to be diminished by "tbh."

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:lol holy shit you must be old as fuck

I don't make the argument either that Tim is not better than Russel... as I said Russel is quite overrated due to era he played... was just noticing that defensive win shares kinda suck... even though I have no issue with putting Duncan from 1 to 3/4

BTW When I see tbh I immediately deduct person is more honest tbh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Defensive win shares is not a great metrics to judge individual defensive impact tbh

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Big Dummy, Win-Shares are cumulative.

Bowen played 24052 minutes & Nique played 38113 minutes so there is a difference of 14000 minutes which is more than half the total amount of minutes Bowen played in his ENTIRE career.

Essentially, Bowen would have had a DWS of over 50 if he played the same amount of minutes as Nique.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drom John

Anybody unaware of how unused and unimpressive Bowen was till his last year in Miami is probably a Spur homer who cannot distinguish rate stats from counting stats.
Bowen as a Spur was great. But Bruce's career was relatively short. Wilkins as a Spur, not so great.

As you remember watching the young Dominique in Atlanta, 'Nique was pretty impressive defensively. Moderately active, with hands in the right place. Can't think of a Spur, but a more interior Kevin Durant isn't far off. 57th all-time in steals, Bowen not in top #250. #182 all-time in blocks, Bowen not top #250.

I'll take Bowen's best years, but there's not many of them. There were many more pretty good Wilkins years.

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Lol

Damn straight

Homer thread is homer

Duncan is also #2 all time in career defensive rating.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

People are also going to look at kawhi who looks like hes on his way for a dpoy repeat and thats going to affect him negatively on defence too..

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Not really because he's way past his prime now that Kawhi is in his.

I don't believe the Bowen argument either. He was more of a fan favorite among Spurs fans and an enemy of a few star players, but otherwise most people are not going to remember him. Without Duncan, he was a nobody.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Big Dummy, Win-Shares are cumulative.

Bowen played 24052 minutes & Nique played 38113 minutes so there is a difference of 14000 minutes which is more than half the total amount of minutes Bowen played in his ENTIRE career.

Essentially, Bowen would have had a DWS of over 50 if he played the same amount of minutes as Nique.

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big dummy that's exactly my point... :rolleyes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drom John

NBA/ABA (which matches the NBA list till Artis Gilmore at #11) Career 93.92Defensive Win Shares

1) 133.64 Bill Russell
2) 105.72 Tim Duncan
3) 94.49 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) 94.47 Hakeem Olajuwon
5) 93.92 Wilt Chamberlain

That fits my eye test.

10) David Robinson
11) Artis Gilmore
29) Moses Malone
39) Dennis Rodman
44) Caldwell Jones
57) Kevin Willis
74) Robert Horry
76) Manu Ginobili
81) Tony Parker
84) Kurt Thomas
109) Antonio McDyess
119) David West
140) Dominique Wilkins
149) Bruce Bowen late peak
150) Billy Paultz
159) Mychal Thompson
161) Doc Rivers
163) Tyrone Corbin
170) Richard Jefferson
175) George Johnson
183) Louie Dampier
187) Andre Miller
189) Alvin Robertson
190) Hedo Turkoglu
197) Theo Ratliff
215) Larry Kenon
227) LaMarcus Aldridge
229) George Gervin
235) Michael Finley
241) Paul Pressey

Honorable mention, on NBA only list:
248) Boris Diaw

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Tony Parker :hat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drom John

NBA/ABA (which matches the NBA list till Artis Gilmore at #11) Career 93.92Defensive Win Shares

1) 133.64 Bill Russell
2) 105.72 Tim Duncan
3) 94.49 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) 94.47 Hakeem Olajuwon
5) 93.92 Wilt Chamberlain

That fits my eye test.

10) David Robinson
11) Artis Gilmore
29) Moses Malone
39) Dennis Rodman
44) Caldwell Jones
57) Kevin Willis
74) Robert Horry
76) Manu Ginobili
81) Tony Parker
84) Kurt Thomas
109) Antonio McDyess
119) David West
140) Dominique Wilkins
149) Bruce Bowen late peak
150) Billy Paultz
159) Mychal Thompson
161) Doc Rivers
163) Tyrone Corbin
170) Richard Jefferson
175) George Johnson
183) Louie Dampier
187) Andre Miller
189) Alvin Robertson
190) Hedo Turkoglu
197) Theo Ratliff
215) Larry Kenon
227) LaMarcus Aldridge
229) George Gervin
235) Michael Finley
241) Paul Pressey

Honorable mention, on NBA only list:
248) Boris Diaw

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Kareem was a sh**y defender (at least in certain match-ups); and he's listed 3rd overall.

:lol Who are the two faggots that voted no?

Characterizing him as a top 5 all time defender is kind of an insult. He's easily top two, and there's an easy case to be made that he's GOAT by a wide margin.

When he retires, the NBA should name the DPOY trophy after him.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

When he retires, the NBA should name the DPOY trophy after him.

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That is a brilliant idea!

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Characterizing him as a top 5 all time defender is kind of an insult. He's easily top two, and there's an easy case to be made that he's GOAT by a wide margin.

When he retires, the NBA should name the DPOY trophy after him.

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I believe that too, I was just being cautious.

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Originally Posted by Agloco

:lol Who are the two faggots that voted no?

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I see a 3rd person voted no.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

big dummy that's exactly my point... :rolleyes

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I guess your bitch ass doesn't know elementary math such as long division.:wakeup