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This is an excellent piece on The Admiral. I agree with about 90% of it. Yes, Hakeem Olajuwon put up better numbers than him in their series, but he didn't outplay The Admiral to the degree that it's been made out to be for the last 21 years. Here's the link:
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2016/03/...medium=twitter
The Admiral is the reason I became a Spurs fan. :bobo
Nice article tbh. D Rob is an often forgotten great.
I love how Spurs fans (especially SA natives) put Admiral on a pedestal but shit on KG when their career is basically a mirror image.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas82
Hakeem actually ate Admiral's lunch 1-on-1 but KG held his own against Tim 1-on-1 & actually performed better against the 2004 Lakers than Tim b/c Malone couldn't guard him on the perimeter.
God bless David.... without him Spurs would be shit
Priceline gives him some love in their new commercial with Sprewell.
KG recorded quadruple double before?? how can their career be a mirror image of each other..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Ate his lunch to the tune of 12-30 record and 44% shooting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Dumbest post you've ever made. First of all, KG was an egomaniac douchebag and everyone knows it. Robinson was the exact opposite. Also, lol @ picking out one year out of so many... 2004, obviously KG's best year... where his stacked team only won 57 games and bowed out in the playoffs. Also, the Spurs tied the season series with them that year (also 2002 and 2003) but we beat them in the season series every other year Garnett was in Minnesota as well as beating them every time we met them in the playoffs. KG was obviously the more athletic guy, but he doesn't hold a candle to TD in the brains department or really overall. Lastly, TD never even considered bandwagoning a different stacked title contender (in the Leastern Conference no less) to win a championship. KG never won a title as the alpha dog, whereas TD won 3 of them. Overall, TD has five rings, KG has one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
With KG, anything is possible... including the fact he's a waste of a roster spot at this point. He needs to retire and let that team grow without him, seriously.
Bazinga! David was taller and more athletic than the Dream and I'm a huge homer when it comes to D Rob, but I had no idea their head to head record was so lop sided. I'd bet Tim vs KG is equally slanted in Tim's favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
And don't forget The Admiral holding a prime Hakeem to 6 points in a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
lol
Holy shit, the backfire :lol
The optics of 1995 will never help David.
The reality of 1995 has never been as bad for David as the optics were.
Hakeem was great for those 10 days. Somehow, that (and pretty much only that) is what now defines that matchup.
Unt, who exactly were the alpha dogs on the other 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016
But I also believe Moses Malone is right there too. Guy was a MONSTER yet i frankly think he gets talked about less than D Rob who gets criminally shunned himself.
That's not obvious to me. Robinson is maybe the most athletic big of all-time.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016
Hakeem did not dominate drob throughout his career. he dominated for one series. The h2h was always entertaining but I'd argue 5-0 got the better of him. If 5-0 is similar to anyone he'd be a 7'0 tall lebron.
+1 to Moses Malone being a forgotten legend.
Hakeem absolutely DESTROYED the Admiral
:lol spurms fan in denial
Thank god for his injury in 96'
It's not farfetched to say that without him, the Spurs wouldn't be in San Antonio.Quote:
Originally Posted by illusioNtEk
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
it was easily robinsonQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Conjecture.Quote:
Originally Posted by BatManu20
Good read! Thanks for posting! :toast
That was my dad's reason too. I've been a Spurs fan since I can remember because he made me one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
He made me a Spurs fan also. Never enough credit is given. Freak of nature way before Howard and a millions times better. Fuck Hakeem and gay-g
What happens if D Rob and Hakeem switch teams in 95?
Robinson was 20-12 against Hakeem head to head before Duncan arrived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Robinson's team wins it in four blowouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
Bruh, KG was the best all-around player of his generation before LeBron took the throne thus he doesn't need to record a quadruple double to prove it (he had numerous triple-doubles). KG played PF & defended numerous position like Draymond Green so he wasn't hanging around the rim like Admiral to get double digit blocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by azarel
- Only player in NBA history to reach at least 25,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,500 steals and 1,500 blocks in his career
- Only player in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists per game for 6 consecutive seasons (1999–2000–2004–05)
- Only player in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists per game for 9 consecutive seasons (1998–99–2006–07)
I'm not saying they had a similar game but rather had a similar career when you look at their situation/narratives (just like how folks compare Tim to Kareem/Russell) otherwise Admiral wasn't averaging 5 assists at any point of his career like KG. Basically, KG is the Admiral of PFs.
Not really. Robinson was instrumental in keeping Duncan and winning a title, without one or the other they wouldn't have gotten funding for a new arena, and they'd have been gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Big Dummy, Hakeem at Admiral's lunch when he was guarding him 1-on-1. Yeah, Admiral was getting doubled on the other end but that has nothing to do w/ Hakeem scoring on him at will which wasn't the case when KG was guarding Tim 1-on-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Rockets lose to the Jazz in the 1st rd b/c Admiral was also Malone's bitch.:wakeup (Even rookie Tim couldn't save him)Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Head to head, Number of games shooting .500 or better:
Robinson 19
Hakeem 12
Head to head, Number of games shooting .600 or better:
Robinson 9
Hakeem 2
Head to head, Number of games shooting .700 or better:
Robinson 3
Hakeem 0
Big Dummy, I'm talking about the '95 playoffs when Admiral was the MVP. (Ewing, who was on a decline, did a better job on MVP Hakeem in the '94 Finals)Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
That commercial makes me feel really bad for Spree. Anyone else get the feeling that they didn't explain it to him? :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Darius Bieber
There's no team I hated more than Utah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Yep, Admiral was a soft bitch who was Karl Malone's bitch among many others.:toastQuote:
Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016
Stacked?:lmao Ervin Johnson/Hassell were STARTING:lol, Sprewell was past his prime & he turned old ass Cassell into an All-Star for the FIRST TIME in his career. Cassell got injured in the playoffs (back) thus KG had to play POINT GUARD against the Lakers.Quote:
Also, lol @ picking out one year out of so many... 2004, obviously KG's best year... where his stacked team only won 57 games and bowed out in the playoffs.
Admiral NEVER had a career defining performance such as this when he single handily beat the same Kings squad that took care of Nash/Dirk/Finley/Jamison in 5 games:
Rasho was 2nd in win-shares on the Wolves in 2002-03:lmao (KG averaged 27/15/5 on 50% shooting against the Lakers whom they could have beaten if Rasho didn't get steam rolled by Shaq in the 2nd half of Gm 4 when the Wolves had a chance to go up 3-1...remember how one game changed the Spurs fate after they won 2 games in 2003: Horry's shot rims out & 2004: Fisher 0.4)Quote:
Also, the Spurs tied the season series with them that year (also 2002 and 2003) but we beat them in the season series every other year Garnett was in Minnesota as well as beating them every time we met them in the playoffs.
KG has a Bball IQ that rivals LeBron:lolQuote:
KG was obviously the more athletic guy, but he doesn't hold a candle to TD in the brains department or really overall.
Which is why I'm making the comparison b/w Admiral & KG rather than KG/Tim.:wakeup (KG would have won more than one if he didn't get injured in 2009)Quote:
Lastly, TD never even considered bandwagoning a different stacked title contender (in the Leastern Conference no less) to win a championship. KG never won a title as the alpha dog, whereas TD won 3 of them. Overall, TD has five rings, KG has one.
Folks act like KG wasn't the best player on the 2008 Celtics just like Tim in 2007, he was the best defensive player in the league & ended Sheed's career:
He also run Bron out of town in 2010:
At least he isn't getting in the way of the franchise & the young players like Kirby, he's basically getting paid a coaches salary to be a mentor.:rolleyesQuote:
With KG, anything is possible... including the fact he's a waste of a roster spot at this point. He needs to retire and let that team grow without him, seriously.
Admiral did nothing but bend down when Mail Man came to town. The Mail Man doesn't deliver on Sundays but Admiral goes to church b/c he's scared.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
Not sure who was better, 04 Garnett or 95 Robinson. Both amazing two way players. Different skills on offense. Garnett had a better post game, better handles, better rebounder, and better passer. But Robinson was a better scorer in his prime.
I wish we could see today's bigs vs 90's bigs, wonder how they would've fared.
Garnett would have been BETTER in today's small ball era; Draymond Green is basically a bootleg version of KG.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KL2
The fact KG had a better jumper, handle, an unblockable fadeaway & a exponential better court vision made him tougher to double b/c he would make teams pay like LeBron. KG fared better against the 2004 Lakers than Tim b/c of those reasons along w/ Hedo chokin'.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
Draymond Green couldn't hold prime KG's jockstrap. Bad take. Jesus these young posters have no clueQuote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Getting quadruple teamed by the Rockets really did a number on how people remember him... sad.
Eh, I don't really consider him a 90's big, didn't reach his peak until the 00's. I would've like to have seen if Olajuwon could defend these guys though, which I don't think he could, especially not KG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Same here actually, way back in the early 90's :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
Hakeem would shit on KG., both ends of the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Young Hakeem had rediculous athleticism. He would not only been able to hang, but dominate.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
KG stat passer on shit teams. And yeah he's like Lebron that he's a douche with no leadership skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Prime Hakeem struggled guarding Shawn Kemp, he's not gonna D up KG. He also struggled against the Sonics in general because their defense had elements of zone in it which are now legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
I actually laughed out loud reading this. It's an order of magnitude less ridiculous than the bullshit posted above you, but at least it was worthy of responding to. :toastQuote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
If there is anyone that could give KG trouble, it would be Hakeem b/c he was agile & quick enough to keep up w/ KG on the perimeter but he still wouldn't have been able to do anything w/ his jumper & fadeaway.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
This shit again?:lol
Guess we'll be doing this until the end of time. Olajuwon is the best big man to ever pick up a basketball. If you are saying you'd start your team with another player, you are a fucking liar, homer or both.
We are going to ignore how small he came up in the '98 series against the Jazz even w/ rookie Tim on his side?Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeGuy
Dude has been outplayed in 3 postseason series by the biggest choker of the 90s (Karl Malone).:lol
He couldn't keep up with Shawn Kemp, I don't think he'd be able to keep up with KG especially since KG can actually handle the ball and has a much better perimeter game, dude looked slow on the perimeter against one of the original "monkey ballers".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Shawn Kemp was MUCH quicker than KG who had long strides (Admiral at his peak was actually quicker than KG) & Hakeem was at the tail end of his prime in '96 when Kemp destroyed Horry. In the '96 Finals, even Rodman couldn't keep up w/ Kemp who was able to check Pippen on the other end.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Yea, but teams are always threatening to move w/o an arena. And would not the arena have came at some point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Shawn Kemp was more athletic than KG. Two totally different players.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Kemp couldn't handle the ball like KG though, KG could easily bring him out further on the floor and get whatever he wanted against him with his ball handling. Olajuwon's perimeter defense on Kemp was pretty poor, Kemp was getting wide open jumpers whenever he wanted, just couldn't make them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Rodman was a small guy, just 220lbs soaking wet, it's laughable that he was even a PF guarding players like Olajuwon.
Garnett is the 2nd best PF of all-time, tbh..it's sad that mainstream narrative has hurt the perception of his career..
I agree with OP about Robinson, though..he had his struggles and underperforming moments, but he's unfairly scrutinized for the Rockets series..somehow, despite being a top 20 player of all-time with athleticism that was ahead of it's time and several historic accomplishments(quad-double, 70 points, etc), it seems like he's remembered more for that Houston series, rather than his actual career..
Bruh, I don't live next to a dirty creek. The Spurs could play on another planet for all I care which is why I brought up the SA native bias when it comes to Admiral.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Parker and Leonard, respectivelyQuote:
Originally Posted by keeferob25
Maybe go to the t-wolves site and suck off Gay-GQuote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Moses Malone is the only center that was able to outplay Kareem in a playoff series when the latter was an All-NBA 1st team member ('81). He then mauled him in the '83 Finals forcing Kareem to pump iron in the off-season. Admiral wishes he had Moses's playoff resume.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by keeferob25
Why do folks act like '95 WCF was the only series that Admiral under-performed? :downspin:Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
He got Karl MalOwned numerous time in the playoffs including '94 when he led the league in scoring & put up 71 points. In 94, Hakeem didn't have Drexler & it was Mad Max playing the Stephen Jackson role when he beat the Jazz during the same postseason on his way to a chip. (Hakeem won the MVP over Admiral who had better numbers b/c he made his teammates better & was a TRUE leader)
I guess folks are going to blame Rodman for '94 too after he toyed w/ Malone in two Finals series when he had a leader that wasn't scared of the Mail Man.:lol
If memory serves, everything happened at the 11th hour. The Spurs won the title right before a vote. The arena might have come later, but it would have been to attract another team to town, because the Spurs would have been gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
I don't think the Spurs were leaving, tbh. Duncan was a rock, up and coming. Something would've been worked out. SA wasn't going to let their only major sports franchise leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
No thanks, I live in SoCal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horse
Stockton played a role in the sodomizing, especially against D Robs point gaurd challenged teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Which part did you disagree with? Garnett's peak was 15 RPG and 6 APG, compared with Robinson's 13 and 4. It's commonly known that Robinson was more of a faceup player than a post player, while Garnett played a lot of "point forward" because he could bring the ball up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I'm going by memory, but it was really close. Robinson was a big reason Duncan didn't leave for Orlando as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
EDIT: Found the article. A banner ceremony the same time as the vote for the tax to fund the arena.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/31/sp...n-antonio.html
Yeah, sorry. Kind of an uncivil response on my part, which you didn't deserve. Let me 'splain. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
People commonly say that Robinson was more of a face-up player, and more people commonly repeat it. They seem to think that somehow means that Robinson wasn't a great post-up player, which is wrong. He was more dangerous to teams as a face-up player because he was a guard in a center's body, and he could get past defenders with his athleticism instead of having to have his back to the basket. Robinson did things facing up that no seven footer has ever done, before or since, but he was a better post-up player than Garnett. Garnett had more assists, so I let the passing thing go, but at best they were equivalent rebounders in their prime. I'm actively overlooking the extra 1.1 rebounds you credited Garnett with at his peak.
Garnett's strength was his defense, and he wasn't as good as Robinson as a defender, either.
None of this is to say that Garnett was not great or not a hall of famer, because he's clearly both. He's an amazing player, and I apologize for my harsh response, but it always annoys me when people try to compare his game to Duncan or Robinson. He doesn't measure up, but he put up enough stats to fool people into sometimes making the comparison IMHO.
I was talking about a specific series. No different than people acting like the rockets didn't win in the lost Jordan/out of shape Jordan years. Rockets, nor Spurs, win shit if Jordan's dad hadn't gotten killed. Whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
David and Tim together in their primes. Maybe 10 rings..
Good find. I think Holt and company, including Duncan, were just leveraging their great product for an arena. I never felt the Spurs would leave though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Quote:
The current deal has Holt only putting up $28.5 million of the expected $175 million price tag for the new arena. In late September, Citizens for Responsible Spending conducted a survey of 500 likely San Antonio voters from the hospitality industry. According to the data gathered, 48 percent opposed the plan, 41 percent approved and 11 percent were undecided. Hence, the campaign trail blazed by Robinson, Duncan and even Sean Elliott, who underwent a kidney transplant in August.
During the lockout, Michael Jordan baited the Washington Wizards owner Abe Pollin into a verbal sparring session by suggesting that Pollin should sell his team if he could not make a profit on it. Pollin, the league's senior owner, had a right to be angry. He had spent $200 million for a downtown arena and paid Juwan Howard $105 million the past four years. He did not ask the District of Columbia for financial assistance.
Watching the Spurs try to gouge their city for a new arena reminds us that for all the feel-good emotion a championship team can bring, what it really wants back is not your applause or worship. It's your dollar.
Garnett had an unstoppable fadeaway shot & even had a Dream Shake ala Hakeem which was something Admiral lacked thus made it easier to double him. KG was actually tougher to double than Hakeem b/c he had an elite court vision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
KG is a LEGIT 7 footer (dude is taller than Tim), the only thing Admiral had on him was muscle.Quote:
Robinson did things facing up that no seven footer has ever done, before or since, but he was a better post-up player than Garnett. Garnett had more assists, so I let the passing thing go, but at best they were equivalent rebounders in their prime. I'm actively overlooking the extra 1.1 rebounds you credited Garnett with at his peak.
KG is EASILY the best PnR defender EVER. He's longer than Hakeem/Russell/Big Ben & more agile than other bigs.Quote:
Garnett's strength was his defense, and he wasn't as good as Robinson as a defender, either.
KG is massively underrated. Pretty comfortably in the top 15 of all-time IMO.
My role model growing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
My friends wanted to be like Mike.
I wanted to emulate The Admiral.
Class personified. Too bad he's a hanger on.
I think that's a reasonable opinion, but Red McCombs had really fucked the city getting the Alamodome built, and he was making money off of it, not the Spurs (I think McCombs STILL gets the concession money from that building). The city was still a bit raw about that and didn't want to leverage more tourist money to pay for another building, so it's not impossible that they would have called Holt's bluff and at that point he'd have really had to look at relocation. There were cities with money to burn on a shiny new NBA team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Garnett had an unstoppable fadeaway in that nobody could stop him from doing it because he never developed a post move toward the basket in his career. :lmao The Dream shake was not a shoulder fake leading to a fadeaway, dude. KG had such good court vision because he was looking to get rid of the ball when it was in his hands, especially in crunch time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
:lol best PnR defender ever. Couldn't even stop the vaunted Derek Fisher to Pau Gasol PnR 2 out of 3 times. Slapping the court and shouting isn't defense. Robinson faced the most punishing pick and roll in the history of the game five times a year and is still number two in defensive rating in the modern era. Behind Duncan.
Admiral at the PEAK OF HIS PRIME shot below 40% in NUMEROUS postseason series & he will ALWAYS be known as Malone's bitch which is the ultimate insult.:cryQuote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Pre-Injury KG turned Pau into his bitch after Pau held his own against Tim.:lobt2:
I know you're talking out of your ass per par, but which are these NUMEROUS postseason series IN HIS PRIME where Robinson shot below 40%?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
When did Hakeem guard Robinson 1 on 1?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Same here. My wife went to OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
Bah...DRob has two rings, The Failman has none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
REMEMBER THE ELBOW!!!
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeGuy
WTF does that have anything to do w/ Admiral defending Hakeem on the other end? :sleepQuote:
Originally Posted by Drachen
Depends what you consider his prime? (He was top 10 in win-shares/PER/All-NBA/All-Star/MVP voting through 2000-01 when he led the league in WS/48)Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
So let the postseason chokin' be revealed:
- http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s-vs-jazz.html
- http://www.basketball-reference.com/...-vs-spurs.html
- http://www.basketball-reference.com/...-vs-spurs.html
Embarrassing PEAK prime performance: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...-vs-spurs.html
Compare this to Garnett's last All-NBA season (2nd team Defense) at the same age as Admiral's final tail-end-of-prime season (35): http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s-vs-heat.html
That 94-95 Spurs Team during the regular season was the most exciting Spurs team to watch of all time. Robinson dominating everyone in sight, Ninja Roach doing his thing, Rodman grabbing every rebound just to pass it back to Robinson again and also Vinny and Avery playing well. The Beautiful Game was amazing but that 94-95 team was just a joy to watch.
The urban legend continues:Quote:
Originally Posted by SayTown
- http://www.basketball-reference.com/...503030SAS.html
- http://www.basketball-reference.com/...501130HOU.html
- http://www.basketball-reference.com/...502210HOU.html
Here is the head to head stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=robinda01
30-12 head to head is pretty fucking dominant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
From you:
Hakeem actually ate Admiral's lunch 1-on-1
From me:
When did Hakeem guard Robinson 1 on 1
Dummy, I'm comparing how Admiral fared guarding Hakeem 1-on-1 to the supposed much inferior Ewing in the '94 Finals. There are two side of the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachen
For example, KG got doubled by Admiral/Tim but he was able to check Tim as well as anyone during his prime which is why he didn't get utterly outplayed like Admiral did by Hakeem when Admiral was supposedly better than Hakeem & KG was inferior to Tim.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stats_playoffsQuote:
Originally Posted by wildcardX
Let's ignore Tim being 10-0 vs Hakeem:rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Ok, you are correct. In that series Hakeem outplayed David one on one and David played 75-85% as well 3 (including Hakeem) on 1. Your point doesn't favor your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
drob was great but had bad teams.
now it's parker's turn. except he's bad and has a great team.
That would also explain why Admiral bitched up against the Jazz in '94 when Hakeem destroyed them w/ Mad Max as his wing-man. It's ALWAYS his teammates not him unlike Garnett/Ewing & 'em. I guess Tim wasn't good enough for him in '98 either.:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Drachen
So you've managed to find exactly 2 series with Robinson shooting below 40% and both from after his injury. Way to backtrack on the 'NUMEROUS', 'IN HIS PRIME' statement :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm