...while Tony gets some rest for the remainder of the regular season, tbh? He seems to have a good thing going with LMA, and, at least at home, looks like money in the bank...
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...while Tony gets some rest for the remainder of the regular season, tbh? He seems to have a good thing going with LMA, and, at least at home, looks like money in the bank...
Yes. Next question.
time for him to start games.
I love these 2014 threads tbh.
:lobt2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen
Mills is still erratic and doesn't manage time worth a shit. He's a ferret on a double espresso. You need someone to manage the clock late.
Kawhi/LMA duo has been far, far better with Mills compared to Parker...I'm starting to think Mills should be the guy playing in the last 6-7 minutes of the game unless Parker has it going.
If I thought Parker could coexist with the bench I'd start him tbh.
Nothing like dribbling for 22 seconds and bricking a jumper to manage the shot clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
If we want to win... Then the answer is yes..
It seems like Pop isn't as afraid to bench Parker, this season, tbh..
It's going to require coaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Fine, if Patty is off you bring in Miller. That's what he was brought in for.
Stop the pet Parker bullshit Popped.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
pop should play parker/patty the way he should play green/martin. If our starters are playing poorly - play the sub. Shouldn't be a difficult concept.
Parker is part of the big 3. No way Pop benches him.... Yes it has been Mills doing more work than Parker... but like in the OKC game... Pop always goes back to Parker.
as long as porker finishes above 45% from the field
that play off the time out with Tony and leads to something bad then they run it again for a Tony jumper. :lmao
Wow..I just looked it up:Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
Aldridge/Leonard/Mills: +22.5 PP100 :wow top 3-man combination the Spurs have utilized, this season, slightly ahead of Leonard/Green/West..
Sample size is much smaller, of course..
But can Mills average more than 10+ PPG in the finals like Tony can?
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
I don't know if he's ready for it, but I have very little faith that Parker has much left in the tank.
Wouldn't mind having Mills/Miller in there together if the opponent's SG isn't good, for instance against a team like OKCQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Against the Clippers, if Mills can do as much as stay at home with Redick, we'll be alright.
Players need rest bro. He plays Patty early and rides him until he gets tired. No brainer sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jermaine
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
parker's shooting in recent games...
clippers: 1-5
thunder: 0-4
bulls: 10-16
pacers: 2-8
kings: 1-6
pelicans: 1-3
and he's been swiss cheese on defense, which is extra concerning..Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
Depends.
Next question.
:lol dayumQuote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Tony in the benchQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
http://cdn3.volusion.com/j575u.gtsw7...jpg?1381569071
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I wonder about the effect on our bench TBH.
But I have no doubt Pop is going to whoever is playing better to close out games this season m He will probably prefer Tony bc Patty's ballhandling under pressure is very spotty. Tony can control pace to closeout games better, but if Patty has it going no doubt in my mind Pop will go to him.
Pop has already proven, that unlike last year in the LAC series where TP just didn't have it and Pop was going down with TP (a series they almost won anyways) he will pull TP. There have been long periods of TP on the bench, even in the 4th quarter. Pop will play who's playing the best.
I hope you're right, Deepy. I really do.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
This. thank goodness. Answer to El Nono's question: yes, if he is playing better. no brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Both are trash on D but Mills's energy/hustle really help when the offense looks stagnant.
OP. Did you see mills in the first half? Turrible.
Manu too, but it's a 48 min game, tbh... both killed it in that 2nd halfQuote:
Originally Posted by LongtimeSpursFan
Did you see Parker all game? TerribleQuote:
Originally Posted by LongtimeSpursFan
Depends on the matchup but it's seeming more like a reality.
If he plays every game like tonight's second half. It can work with Tony in as well like it did tonight.
I want Parker doing what he did tonight at the end of games. Penetrating to the foul line moving and finding wide open players like Mills and Green at the 3 point line. Head up.
Patty is who you go to when you need to push the tempo. You don't push the tempo up 12 with 2 minutes left.Quote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
It begins...
Whoever is playing better, tbh.
If Tony could not suck so much that Pop HAS to put in PAtty early, I'm 100% sure he can close out games.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I think Mills makes much more sense. At the beginning of the season I made the case for Parker to the bench, with the intent of lma and Kawhi having the ball in their hands late. It's worked flawlessly everytime so far. They need a complimentary player, not another star. He would make much more sense with the second unit who needs ball handlers. Mills also hussles his Azz off and is a legitimate threat on a kick out three once a double comes. I like mills to end the games with Kawhi and lma.
Patty's ball handling in general is improving. He is becoming much less one-dimensional. His drives are improving. His assists are going up. And did you see him finish the lob from Aldridge? :wow. Pop is developing him as a much truer PG, and Pop is simultaneously becoming increasingly frustrated with Tony. He sent him a couple of very strong messages this past week, and Tony is still playing lackadaisical defense. These playoffs will be very interesting to watch just for our PG rotations. But next season will be very interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
Since you're that sure I feel more at ease that I am right.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
The game was presented as "Leonard and Aldridge" without mention of the big 3. Tony never really had control of the franchise like he thought he would. It basically skipped him and went to Kawhi. He was effective for a stretch, but you can see he feels he should be the man. He will even say in interviews "Kawhi is young, you guys are putting to much on him at once, let him grow up a little where it's not so hard like I had it". I'm sick of hearing how much shit he took as a rookie. He's French, he should be used to getting stepped on.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Nah. But ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I don't give a shit who's playing as long as the team closes games.
If Patty's hot, then go with Patty. If it's a toss up, probably go with Parker and his adequate ball handling.
But if the outcome of a game rests on the PG, then it's not an ideal situation.
Tony has to start games. I don't trust patty to go against rested top tier guards. He's better off remaining on the bench hitting shots and then letting him run at the starting pg only after they've (opponent starting guard) gassed out.
Also Parker and Duncan should play together b/c of ancient synergy. Tonight Duncan didn't play down the stretch so Parker didn't either. They both need rest, so it's fine.
I saw Patty had six assists this game....were they good assists or just passing the ball around the perimeter? Real question i missed the game.
Do you ever ask that about tony?Quote:
Originally Posted by K...
When closing out games in which we are up I want Tony doing the ball handling.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Patty is still a much better 2. You can't take away his ability to move without the ball and find open spots or get out in transition as a legit 3 point threat. Next season if Tony is done at PG, Patty does not need to be sacrificed. We would need a new guy IMO at PG and we should have room.
Agree. POP is just really a lot less tolerant and will really play whoever is giving his all. IMO Diaw is in trouble too. Kyle is 22 and still a developing player and already playing better defensively and with a lot more competitive fire. D west is definitely playing better and closing games out + playing more minutes. We are all in this season like we were not last season. I wonder if there are regrets about not playing Cojo last season series.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Patty is still spotty under pressure. Has had many sequences to close out quarters that were !!! He's blowing Tony out of the water though with his hustle. One on one he's not even better defensively but the energy he has and his effort after loose balls, rebounds, etc is something we don't see from Tony at all.
Next season the team will be different. Just how invested they are this season, last minute additions letting go of guys they really really like and Pop giving opportunities to younger guys to grow into larger roles + benching even any if the big3 or Boris if they are not a good match up (mostly TIm find a himself there) or if they are not playing well or executing what Pop wants (Tony & Bobo) just screams of Pop's determination this season, which gives me a good feeling fir our chances despite GSW. We are not going to sink this season on one or two guys' account.
Don't think it is sacrificing Patty. In a system that is not supposed to be point guard-dominant, you are describing a pretty good PG. Many of the elite PGs in the league any more are legit 3-point threats with/without the ball and in transition. BTW if Tony is "done", what do you expect his fate to be? Also, we may have several pairs of big sneakers to fill next season, how do you think we have room for a good new PG, and who do you think that is?Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Yup...and if you narrow it down to just the Mills/Kawhi duo, they have a net rating of +24.9 (best duo the Spurs have thrown out there).Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
If you think that's crazy, look at the Spurs' starting lineup with Mills in place of Parker: Mills/Green/Kawhi/Aldridge/Duncan have a net rating of +42.7 :wow They've played under 50 minutes together, but still...would really like for Pop to start experimenting with playing Patty more with the big guns as opposed to just using him as a spark plug for the bench unit.
Tony and Patty are very close in RPM. Maybe it is the coach in me, but give me Patty's hustle any day! Just wish he'd grow a few inches.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
BTW, Timmy has recovered well from whatever ailment had him dying in the first Laker game in LA. I was 100% certain he was hanging 'em up after this season - and I was glad to see him walk away intact. Now I am only about 80% certain.
ALSO BTW, Danny's handles are far less cringe-worthy lately. Could it be all of Pop's forcing him to put the ball on the floor early has paid a little dividends? :wow
Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Patty is 4 times better than Tony in RPM.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Mills/Green/Kawhi/Aldridge/Duncan: net RTG = +42.7 in 42 minutes of play
Mills/Green/Kawhi/Aldridge: net RTG = +28.1 in 122 minutes of play
Mills/Kawhi/Aldridge: net RTG = +22.5 in 359 minutes of play
Mills/Kawhi: net RTG = +24.9 in 611 minutes of play
Pretty hard to argue with those numbers...
Patty is not a stop and start ball handler. He is straight line fast, not a jitterbug, change directions. IMO all points should have this ability as well as being able to put a guy on their hip or in back of them and keep them off the ball. Patty is very uncomfortable with this and this part of a PG abilities has not changed. So yes I believe what I have described is using Pattys skills incorrectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Tony?
He sits. I mean he flat out sits like Pop has already given him ample doses of. Manu and Tim gone, Aldridge having a successful transition could get some interest from a legit guy. There will most likely be no more comfy picks out high "I know where you are going" with Tim most likely gone which will really test Parker fully. I believe Duncan has extended Tony's reliability.
Honestly I posted without checking. The last time I checked was actually 3 or 4 weeks ago, and they were pretty close IIRC. If Patty's is that much better now, it just shows the great disparity in their play the last few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
There is no real reasonable argument for Parker over Mills. Parker's superior ball handling is the closest I've heard, but I'm guessing their turnover rates are not that different.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
When you don't have to chase Curry, Paul, etc... from the start of the game and again at the end in big moments...Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
Looks good on paper and I wish it was that easy but I don't believe it is.
I don't disagree with it, but you added some to your description in this response. My point is simply that Patty is becoming a much more adequate option, given the choices we currently have.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Parker makes $14MM to SIT?
I'm not even advocating for Mills to start. I just think Pop should be playing him more with the 1st unit. He's just so much better of a fit offensively* next to Kawhi/Aldridge. And sorry, but the defense argument doesn't really work when you're comparing him to Tony Parker :lol They're both mediocre at best defenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
*
Mills/Kawhi/Aldridge trio: ORTG = 120.2
Parker/Kawhi/Aldridge trio: ORTG = 107.0
Parker plays against first team. Mills plays against scrubs. Mills is a relief pitcher not a starter.
What would you suggest?Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
If we can't trade him he sits. You certainly don't put him on the floor if you have two guys better at PG because we will have one next year (we will see how good) and since people are basically indicating Patty is a better point.
What would you do?
And this of course suggests Parker is incompetent like last year against Paul in the playoffs. You don't play a terrible player...
No actually it does. Mills is not only worse on D he gets really stupid fouls very quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
Mills and Parker both average 2.1 fouls per 36 minutes...would hardly consider that foul-prone.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
My argument isn't that Mills isn't worse on D than Parker. It's that there's no way in hell Parker's "advantage" defensively makes up for the massive advantage Mills brings offensively. They're both shitty defenders. Parker being only slightly less shitty doesn't really make up for how much better the offense flows with Mills.
I'm far less worried about our defense falling apart with Green/Kawhi/Duncan out there than I am about our offense stalling and getting jammed up like it has so often this year.
Again, I'm not advocating that Mills starts full-time or takes a ton of Parker's minutes. I just want to see him get a bit more playing time, specifically with some of the starters. And like this topic initially brought up, that he play more down the stretch of close games.
I got no problem with any of the above except to look at how Patty and Tony score. They are so very different. And Patty is more comfortable and a better scorer off the ball. This is why Manu is so nice to have with Patty. Even Parker with Patty worked tonight to make it a blowout. Danny with Patty.... I shudder except now KL is taking responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
We lived with Parker's defensive deficiencies when he was lightning quick on offense. Now he not only has the same defensive deficiencies, but his effort is really lacking. I only see two options: 1. We package him with an attractive asset and dump his contract - possibly to the 76ers if they do not come up with a decent PG this off-season or to another team looking to trade a guy on an expiring contract they do not believe they can re-sign, or 2. We amnesty the guy. You don't pay backups $14MM.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Trouble is I do not see any veteran free agent this coming off-season that is desirable and/or affordable. Who do you think we could get?
This is exactly why I'm advocating playing Mills more with the starters :lol When Kawhi and LMA are out there, the last thing I want is Parker dribbling around for 15 seconds. It's much more beneficial to have a lights out shooter who can demand attention from defenses and create space for Kawhi/Aldridge. If teams start to double those guys (which they'll almost certainly have to), then they can kick it out to Mills.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Kawhi has gotten to the point where he can create offense and run PnRs consistently. He's one of the most efficient PnR ball-handlers in the league. I don't think we need Parker to run offense at this point. Kawhi can run PnRs or attack defenders straight up off the dribble, Kawhi and LMA can create out of the post, Duncan-Aldridge high-low action...the list goes on.
I have absolutely no idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
All I know is if Mills is a better point than Tony then there is absolutely another player out there. Most likely goboom as I'm sure he could take time off from his engineering projects.
Mills being worse than Parker on defense? Did I read that right? You have ZERO stats to back that up. In fact, most if not EVERY advanced defensive stat available would point to Mills being the superior defender and Parker being one of the worst, if not the worst, defender on the team. Mills triples him in defensive win shares, has a better defensive rating, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
You think this can work with D. Green in the PLAYOFFS?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
Im not a brave enough message board coach. I'm handing this job to you.
Mills gets shoved around round like a rag doll, falls for the same tactics over and over, and generally does not move well laterally. I do watch the games. So stat up Mills against the opposing 2nd team PG all you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomersgold
Just tonight Chris Paul used exactly the same tactic on successive possessions and drew 2 fouls on Mills. He has got to know you don't lay your arm over the opposition and allow them to shove their elbows up. Christ, he must have Manu do this constantly to him in practice.
So yes, it's watching.
What about making Miller the starting PG, and playing Mills more minutes off the bench? So like 21-24 minutes for Miller and 24-27 minutes for Mills per night?
Closing statement as I don't wish to get pegged as a Mills hater:
I love the guy on the team. He seems to be one of the most likeable, totally team oriented type of player. I'm glad we have him. Tony actually gave him big props tonight when they came off the floor together. They were both laughing so something good seemed to be going on.
Patty can just pull a Tony and get out of the way, tbh... I don't really see how that's any better defense. Heck, sometimes I'll take the foul to let the other player know he's being hounded. Plus not every PG has Paul's smarts to flop for fouls.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Really, November Tony did put some work on defense, but post-February Tony has been a traffic cone. That's why in the OP I'm merely advocating rest for Tony, at least until the playoffs.
HH im hoping you are right man ... Tp has not been aging well to say it nicelyQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
small sample size but its a step in the right direction tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Its obvious pop will pull tony if he is not performing.. this year pop just wants to win.. he will go with the best 5 players every night
people thinking mills can't handle starting :lol
It is really unfortunate this complete fall off of Tony from a top tier PG to bottom unplayable crap in span of 3 years...this like the 3rd consecutive season he ends on an awful note..On top of his natural decline, he seems to check out mentally..Last night he was basically bringing the ball up court with little to no probing of Clippers defense.. watch this video of Pj Carlisimo breaking down game...the first sequence Parker on full steam fast break attack having only a backpedaling Reddick at rim..what does he do? he stops dead in his own tracks to initiate a post-up for a far trailing LMA..PJ resisting the urge to say he didn't take it coast coast because he is washedup..
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14985584
Seasons not over yet ^
It is not looking good, at all..basically a perpetration of the same trend: promising play in Nov-Jan and then tailspining into severe liability for the team at a critical position...Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Tbh it's gonna be on Pop. While I ripped on Parker last season it was Pop who played him even though he was trash on both sides of the ball. Parker was just doing what he thought he had to do even though he was sucking balls. Hopefully Pop benches him when he needs it.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
I can't think of any reason why Patty shouldn't close blowout games.
That also happened in 2013-14 when Patty was rolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Started in the '15 playoffs vs. the clippers. Pop doesn't seem as married to the idea of sitting Parker or Manu in crunch timeQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
I woulnd't be opposed to Pop going Mills,Manu/Green, Leonard, West and LMA.
Spacing at every position good passing, and scoring threats at every position. The West Aldridge pairing has been excellent this year. Swapping out Parker for Mills ( floor spacing) should only aid that.
Start calling him the Terminator.
I do have concerns of Patty running the offense, however usually Pop runs with Manu to close out at SG, and Diaw to close out at PF (now that LMA is preferred closing out center instead of TD). With that, there is plenty of playmakers, and having a shooter like Mills would be more beneficiary than Parker's range. In saying that, if we are running with Green, it kind hard having no backcourt or wing players as playmakers running the offense in crunch times. Leonard next evolution is playmaking. Until then, you kinda are forced to use Parker if Green is out there.
He may close games but he sucks in the first half
LOL. This thread.
Well not tonight because he was unable to hold the lead and MVParker had to take us home.
Patty was fire tonight. His bench players weren't. Go watch the game tape. :lmao