This was a good read. Even though the writer was kinda preaching to the choir, it's still good to see The Big Fundamental getting some love.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/t...er-best-041516
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This was a good read. Even though the writer was kinda preaching to the choir, it's still good to see The Big Fundamental getting some love.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/t...er-best-041516
:toast
Remember when you called him a stat padder?Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Every time you say this I'm sure everyone laughs at you brah. :lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
Pity reply. :lmao
Tim is a top 5 player of all time. Him, should be in jail Jordan, Hakeem are the only two way players in the top 10. They are not just great defensive players, but they were super duper great.
No, it's a compulsive masturbator reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
The only issue with Duncan is that he may not always get his own era. Shaq was a player of a generation. So was LeBron. Duncan fits around theses guys, not necessarily better or worse. Both shaq and LeBron have more dominant seasons and repeat championships. Duncan has longevity and consistency.
Really great article...thanks :)
"Duncan sets a million screens, and they're all perfect. Great. And everyone cuts all over the place to the perfect spot and makes passes to open areas where their teammates will be, not where they are."
This is what is missing today from the Spurs. LMA has gotten better, but the team, as a team, no longer screens and sets picks like they used to. I watch GS set screens all around the 3 point line, and everywhere else on the court and think...that's what we used to do. This might be part of Tony's problem, he's not getting the screens he used to. Then again, when you slowly dribble to the 3 point line and immediately pass it to someone...screens become a moot point.
It's sad, that even today, with no legs and few minutes...Tim Duncan is still the best screener on the team.
I really don't understand this argument, unless you way overvalue a repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by K...
What would Shaq's era be? 2000-2002? That's when he started winning titles.
After that, I don't know how at the very least 2003-2007 wouldn't be considered the Tim Duncan era. No team won more than one title during that period except the Spurs, who won 3.
The Lebron era would be what, 2011-2014? With only 2 titles to show for it?
As for Duncan's dominance, he took out the 3-peat Lakers almost singlehandedly in that 2003 playoffs, with Shaq guarding him in the elimination game. He destroyed Shaq in that game, putting up 37 and 16.
Frankly, I'm in the camp of "there is no Kobe era, no Shaq era, no Lebron era... only a Tim Duncan era that those guys got small slices of to call their times to shine.'' Kinda how Hakeem got his glory days in the Jordan era. But even if you give those guys their own "eras" Tim should still get the mid-2000s as an era of dominance that was as long or longer than any of them.
Duncan was a player of a generation a lot more than Shaq.Quote:
Originally Posted by K...
Duncan actually won his first championship in his second year in the league, he didn't have to wait for 8 years (Shaq) or 9 years (Lebron) to be on a super team to do it. Duncan never missed the playoffs. Duncan has 5 rings (Shaq 4 Lebron 2). Do you think Lebron would rather have 5 rings, or repeat?
The thing that will always hurt the perception of Duncan is that his peak coincided with the least popular era in modern NBA history, tbh..only hardcore fans are aware of his series vs. the Nets, peak dominance, carrying supporting casts without supporting stars, etc..
Younger fans and more casual NBA fans know Tim as a legend, but moreso for his longevity and quality as a leader and teammate..along with the number of rings, of course..there's the false perception that the Spurs have always been a balanced, team-oriented attack throughout the Duncan era, unfortunately..
YouTube helps a lot, though..every month we are given access to more and more videos of prime Duncan..
There has been a very clear shift in opinion over "Player of the generation" though..virtually all credible media people have Duncan as the man, it has been the case since the last championship..there has been a 180 on the Kobe vs. Duncan debate from what we had in 2010..
It's a product of new mainstream media hiring intelligent people to analyze basketball, rather than the antiquated system led by genetic lottery winners..
True. And another reason why i want this year or next to be cemented. We've got majority opinion on duncan. But i want it to be unanimous. Win with a great series (averaging a double-double against CLE) and call it a career/cemented legacy as best player post-Jordan.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh18
Good post!!
He is.
Underrated peak, great longevity, the greatest teammate and leader we've seen since Magic, a guy who can play two positions exceptionally well and someone who has thrived in different eras and schemes.
LeBron may well eclipse him but he's not there yet. Tim's 19 years against tough competition year-in, year-out is worth more than LeBron's 13 in the East right now. I'm taking Duncan over Shaq and Kobe simply because he's an ideal franchise player whereas those two were major headaches, and neither of them have more rings than Timmy despite playing with each for almost a decade.
Yeah TD was in his prime first year in the league virtually. So 1998-2009. So people only remember him as the ridiculously good role player he became around 2012.
A sports writer that covers hockey asserted to me that Tim was an average scorer like Bill Russell.:lmao (I almost bitch slapped the dude)Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
The guy is in his 30s & used to follow the league but he basically said Shaq was Wilt & Tim was Bill Russsell. I had to refer him to YT so he can re-watch the '99/'02/'03 series when Tim outplayed/outscored Snack to refresh his memories.
People forget Tim in his prime was as good a scorer as Hakeem:
First 6 seasons:
-Tim: 22.9 12.3 3.2
-Hakeem: 23.2 12.4 2.2
Career per 100 possession:
-Hakeem 30.3 on 23.6 FGAs
-Tim: 29.7 on 22.8 FGAs
Tim has outscored the most prolific scorers of his era (Shaq/Kobe/Dirk) MULTIPLE times in a playoff series. During the 2003 postseason run, he had a string of 4 consecutive games w/ at least 32/15 (only been done by Wilt/Baylor): http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...layoff-history)
Tim essentially had a prime like Hakeem & longevity like Kareem. Tim's post-prime career was also essentially as good as Ewing's prime.:lol
"I suppose Bill Walton is not a bad comparison as far as knowing the game, passing and moving the ball and knowing what it takes to win," said Dallas coach Don Nelson, who has played and coached in the NBA for 40 years. "But he's so much better offensively than Walton. He's much more versatile than Kevin McHale. He's kind of a combination Bird and McHale, but at center.
"There's never been a guy in the game like him, as well-rounded, that I can remember. I don't know where the weakness is."
Tim put the whole league on notice that he can't be single covered during his playoff debut:
Bird doesn't get penalized for not repeating & he had a shorter career/less titles/better teammates than Tim. (Bird has one more regular season MVP while Tim has one more Finals MVP)Quote:
Originally Posted by ajh18
Magic/Bird are essentially put on a pedestal despite playing w/ MULTIPLE HOFers their ENTIRE career & not having won more titles than Tim b/c they saved the league from the crack era.
^^Yep..my post wasn't hyperbole, there actually is the perception among non-hardcore fans that Duncan has played the same role throughout his tenure with the Spurs:lol..
It's directly attributed to his prime occurring during the "dark days" of the NBA, particularly 2003-2007..Duncan at his absolute peak during the 2003 Finals was the lowest rated Finals in modern NBA history IIRC..
If Tim played in New York or Boston or LA, I can't even imagine how revered he would be among casuals and the media..don't get it twisted, they claim it's because he's "boring", but that's bullshit:lol..it's true that big men generally don't receive the same praise and media coverage as guards and SFs, though(Kareem is rarely mentioned by the media, for example)..
The media/fans are biased against bigmen, McHale was as good a wingman as Kobe/Pippen but I've only heard Barkley give him his props.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
the issue with Tim being best player from 2003-2008 is that the Shaq and Lebron eras got so much more hype/press, etc.
During the Tim Duncan years the nba was trying to prop up kobe and anticipate the next next jordan. Guys like Nash, Dirk, and Wade were making flashes and taking all the oxygen and the spurs weren't the undisputed best team in any year other than 2003.
Would have been a world a difference had Duncan won 04, or 06. Not b/c he needs more rings but to show he was part of the best team for his era. no one knew we'd go 3/5 until we did and by the time we did we had laker/celtic, lebron hype in full strength.
If he had retired in 2008-2009 people would have paid attention. Lakers's fans have bragging rights about the failure to sweep but every other player/team/fandom would kill for a 3/5 streak. But instead of a narrative about Tim being the best player in the league, he is merely a roadbump between two stacked Lakers teams. Kind of like hakeem if hakeem had actually been punked by Jordan to show who was boss.
It wasn't until advanced stats show that Duncan was as good as any player in the era that you could seriously say he was better than kobe and lebron. But here we are.
+1. Great postQuote:
Originally Posted by ajh18
Another great post in this thread. Spurstalk bringing some great stuff in here. It's been an honor and privilege to go on the entire Tim Duncan journey. I can still remember the car horns all night after chip 1. Hopefully this team can get Tim to #6. It be a perfect end to an all time great career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
The thing I don't get is how they are still people that argue Bird is better than Tim. Tim beat's Bird when it comes to All NBA teams, championships, total MVPS when you combine regular season and finals mvps. Tim also has longevity on Bird but still some will argue Bird was better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Magic/Bird are essentially glued to the Top 5 b/c they saved the league from the crack era when games were being broadcasted on tape delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by daslicer