If Danny Green does poorly will the Spurs trade him

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Originally Posted by Russo21

It's a shame as Danny is exactly what this team needs, doesn't need the ball in his hands on offense, plays very good defence combined with nasty shooting streaks which can alter a big game in a matter of possessions. But as of right now he's a shooting guard who can't dribble the ball and forgot how to shoot. If he regains his form it's a no brainer to keep him, if he doesn't regain his form nobody in their right mind would want him. Have we seen the best of Danny, is this a slump and he'll be back or is he simply a Cleveland Steamer.

Who is the real Danny Green? A record breaking finals 3 point shooter for the Spurs and great role player who they were lucky to have when he was on fire or a Cleveland Steamer. It's so hard to tell with Danny. He is down on every major statistic this year, PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, SPG, FG%, 3PTFG%, very weird, he is an enigma.

2013 DG playoffs: 44%FG & 48% 3PTFG
2014 DG playoffs: 49%FG & 47% 3PTFG
2015 DG playoffs: 34%FG & 30% 3PTFG

It's no coincidence which 2 years the Spurs made the finals.

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Thanks for the data. It puts things in perspective. Despite the blunder that was the Clippers series last season it highlights how in spite of Tony and Tiago having injuries and a bad series, Danny also had a bad shooting slump at the time and how when he's at 30% it's hard to overcome as it doesn't leave margin for error for others. It's a bad omen for us.

I think the problem is commpounded with Tony' s decline as it was in that series. Your two starting guards shooting in the low 30s' is not going to get it done even with good defense bc you obviously can't and won't stop everything on the opponent side.

Nope, they will keep him another year and see if he recovers.

Wouldn't mind trading him to Utah in a deal for Hayward.

Once Timmy and Manu retires the roster will need to be refreshed. Without Manu we will need a better guard. Danny is probably easier to move than Tony.

Unfortunately for us, Danny has been a barometer of success..the Spurs are 94-21 (playoff/reg season)(81%) in games Green makes at least 3 3pt field goals on at least 45% shooting with quite few of those losses (5) when the Spurs were severely shorthanded in December'14 and early Jan'15..

http://bkref.com/tiny/5r0nT

Danny's defense is too valuable especially against the Dubs. Unless someone makes them an offer they can't refuse, I think they give him another offseason to try and get his shot back.

Truthfully, Patty worries me more. If his shot doesn't come back he's useless. I don't want to bash him he's a hell of a good guy, and one of my favorites, but he's too small and limited (especially if Manu retires) if he isn't hitting his shot. He's never been consistently good since the shoulder surgery. :depressed

Some guys get out of the groove and never get it back. Roger Mason Jr for example. Hope that isn't the case with Danny or Patty.

And maybe Curry will get out of that groove he's in. He'll never be bad, but he may regress to a "normal" good shooter.:lol

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Originally Posted by JohnnyMax

Tony Parker is the reason he was good.

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Green has had virtually the same % of open shots this season as past seasons, tbh..last season, which was Parker's worst season in his NBA career, was Green's best RS in the NBA..


Trading him while his stock is at rock bottom would be pretty stupid..it makes much more sense to see if this year's shooting woes are an anomaly, since there's literally nobody the Spurs could get for the same price that could replicate 2013-2015 Green..

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Originally Posted by Keepin' it real

There's no if, and no.

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Thats what i was thinking you know he is more than likely going to stink it up in the playoffs and the Spurs will still stick with him.

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Originally Posted by BillMc

Danny's defense is too valuable especially against the Dubs. Unless someone makes them an offer they can't refuse, I think they give him another offseason to try and get his shot back.

Truthfully, Patty worries me more. If his shot doesn't come back he's useless. I don't want to bash him he's a hell of a good guy, and one of my favorites, but he's too small and limited (especially if Manu retires) if he isn't hitting his shot. He's never been consistently good since the shoulder surgery. :depressed

Some guys get out of the groove and never get it back. Roger Mason Jr for example. Hope that isn't the case with Danny or Patty.

And maybe Curry will get out of that groove he's in. He'll never be bad, but he may regress to a "normal" good shooter.:lol

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I agree with you on Patty but I think the Spurs definitely want to keep him which is why I didn't even bring him up. He's in a cheap contract, thus he won't bring back much in a trade, plus he's not a starting guard. He probably should not even be playing the 20 minutes he's averaging in this team, nor be in a 2 PG lineup with Tony ever. He's done that bc of our weakness at the SG spot since Danny has been terrible offensively and Manu is on minutes restrictions. Even Anderson has seen minutes at the 2 lately, and the Kmart acquisition was to strengthen the SG spot. Simmons is too raw/inconsistent as well and a very reluctant shooter. And Tony is now on minutes restrictions too, so Patty has played more than he should. In a smaller role where he's not put in the position of being a 6th man of sorts he should be fine.

Patty is definitely limited though and his flaws have been exposed without Manu. Also, not having Cojo this season exposed him. I realized how unappreciated Cojo was. I was among those for whom he was meh! when he was here, but he hid a lot of Patty's defensive deficiencies bc he'd come in games that Patty was stinking it up, thus hiding him, and just letting Patty shine when he had a good game. As soon as Cojo was gone and Pop was forced to live through Patty bad games, bad defense, bad PG skills moments, I realized how limited Patty really is, how much of a chucker he can be and how you need someone else to quarterback an offense--I hate his long 2 coming off a high screen, sometimes very early in the shot clock. Also while I like his aggressiveness he can muck up things for others, as there are times bigs have good position and he can't get them the ball. He's only good for one thing: looking for his shot. If his shot is not falling he won't help. EDIT: as a small SG he can fit in next to other ball dominant players bc he's a shooter which Tony is not... that's for the Kawhi crew, but I am talking bench... and Patty is not a starter caliber guard IMO.

I think Patty can fit in next to playmakers like Andersonv and Diaw though, who are guys that are good getting shots for other ppl, and even J.Simms who is more of a scorer but since he can attack the basket and draw help, he can find shooters too. I would just get the ball our of Patty's hands and put it on Anderson's hands more and call it a bench, unless they want to do something else with Anderson.

The starting guards though are ugh.

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Originally Posted by GSH

The problem is, in '13 he shot .666 in the first 5 games of the Finals. Then he shot .182 in the last two games.
In Game 6, he was 1-5 from 3P and 0-2 from 2P. In Game 7, he was 1-6 from 3P, and 0-6 from 2P. The Spurs lost those two games by 3 and 7 points, respectively. Danny had been blistering the 3P line before that, so his combined numbers look good. But his collapse in the Finals mirrors the Spurs demise.

Last playoffs, against the Clips, he had decent games in three contests (one of the losses). But in four games (three of the losses), he was a combined 3-23 from the 3P line. That was a tough first round matchup for the Spurs, and there was plenty of blame to go around. But if Danny had made just a few shots in those games, and forced the Clippers defense to respect his shot, we would have at least gotten to see a second round last year.

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Actually taking numbers in some semblance of context? Wtf has this board become? Kl lives his life of that finals mvp years ago.

Danny green would be a keeper if he wasn't a retard. No offensive skills combined with, low BB iq, combined with clubbin mentality. Should trade when value is higher than now. Hope for a spurs ring And move green in a sign and trade.

Green will be gone if the Spurs do not win it all regardless of how good he plays. Someone has to be the scapegoat even if it is deserved.

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Originally Posted by Russo21

It's a shame as Danny is exactly what this team needs, doesn't need the ball in his hands on offense, plays very good defence combined with nasty shooting streaks which can alter a big game in a matter of possessions. But as of right now he's a shooting guard who can't dribble the ball and forgot how to shoot. If he regains his form it's a no brainer to keep him, if he doesn't regain his form nobody in their right mind would want him. Have we seen the best of Danny, is this a slump and he'll be back or is he simply a Cleveland Steamer.

Who is the real Danny Green? A record breaking finals 3 point shooter for the Spurs and great role player who they were lucky to have when he was on fire or a Cleveland Steamer. It's so hard to tell with Danny. He is down on every major statistic this year, PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, SPG, FG%, 3PTFG%, very weird, he is an enigma.

2013 DG playoffs: 44%FG & 48% 3PTFG
2014 DG playoffs: 49%FG & 47% 3PTFG
2015 DG playoffs: 34%FG & 30% 3PTFG

It's no coincidence which 2 years the Spurs made the finals.

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That could be directly tied to the big 3.

Duncan and Parker were dominant in '13. All three were solid in '14, along with the best floor spacing that the spurs ever had. '15 Only Duncan showed up. Green did have an excellent game 7.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyMax

Tony Parker is the reason he was good.

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This. I remember the Heat blitzing 13' MVParker on picks and him finding Green open, or finding the guy who will give Green the open shot.

We go as far as Parker leads us

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Originally Posted by dbestpro

Green will be gone if the Spurs do not win it all regardless of how good he plays. Someone has to be the scapegoat even if it is deserved.

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Spurs fans can only pray

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Originally Posted by tholdren

Actually taking numbers in some semblance of context?

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Yeah, I'm funny that way.

I've been looking at more of the Dubs regular season games. They are not NEARLY as efficient when they have to grind out shots in the half court. They do a lot of their damage off of turnovers, and missed shots. Those plays account for a lot of their edge.

So while I agree that Danny is still important on defense, I'm convinced that taking bad shots against Golden State is the surest way to lose to them. And when Danny is in the game, the Spurs are practically playing 4-on-5. Maybe that's too extreme, but he's definitely not helping them get quality looks. That's a killer against the Warriors.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Yeah, I'm funny that way.

I've been looking at more of the Dubs regular season games. They are not NEARLY as efficient when they have to grind out shots in the half court. They do a lot of their damage off of turnovers, and missed shots. Those plays account for a lot of their edge.

So while I agree that Danny is still important on defense, I'm convinced that taking bad shots against Golden State is the surest way to lose to them. And when Danny is in the game, the Spurs are practically playing 4-on-5. Maybe that's too extreme, but he's definitely not helping them get quality looks. That's a killer against the Warriors.

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You're right to a certain extent (about the bad shots being lethal against the Dubs) but what are we going to do? Play creaking ancient Manu major minutes every game? Simmons? Martin? We gotta roll with Danny's nice D and hope he gets hot on offense.

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Originally Posted by BillMc

You're right to a certain extent (about the bad shots being lethal against the Dubs) but what are we going to do? Play creaking ancient Manu major minutes every game? Simmons? Martin? We gotta roll with Danny's nice D and hope he gets hot on offense.

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Oh, no, of course not. This season is what it is. Go with Danny's D, and hope that he has enough decent shooting games to move to the next round. But the thread was about next year.

I was one of Danny's earliest supporters here. I came home from the first preseason game saying he was going to make the roster. And I was one of the few defending him when there were constant threads about how terrible he supposedly was. But I'm looking at his game right now, and thinking that his (lack of) offensive contribution is going to ruin the Spurs in the WCF. It's more than his own lack of shots falling, too.

I hope not. Hell, I've been a fan this long, and I'll keep hoping that he steps his game up at the right time. But that's a fan's hope, and not an objective look at the season.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Oh, no, of course not. This season is what it is. Go with Danny's D, and hope that he has enough decent shooting games to move to the next round. But the thread was about next year.

I was one of Danny's earliest supporters here. I came home from the first preseason game saying he was going to make the roster. And I was one of the few defending him when there were constant threads about how terrible he supposedly was. But I'm looking at his game right now, and thinking that his (lack of) offensive contribution is going to ruin the Spurs in the WCF. It's more than his own lack of shots falling, too.

I hope not. Hell, I've been a fan this long, and I'll keep hoping that he steps his game up at the right time. But that's a fan's hope, and not an objective look at the season.

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Well said. And you're right the topic is next season so my bad. That said, I'm still for giving Danny an offseason to work on his shot. We wouldn't get equal value for him and his deal is pretty good with the cap going up. Of course the rumor that Atlanta offered Holford for him shows he does have value out there. But I'd like to keep him. He's one of the poster boys for the d-league success story. If Simmons has half the career Danny's had, we'll be in good shap.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Oh, no, of course not. This season is what it is. Go with Danny's D, and hope that he has enough decent shooting games to move to the next round. But the thread was about next year.

I was one of Danny's earliest supporters here. I came home from the first preseason game saying he was going to make the roster. And I was one of the few defending him when there were constant threads about how terrible he supposedly was. But I'm looking at his game right now, and thinking that his (lack of) offensive contribution is going to ruin the Spurs in the WCF. It's more than his own lack of shots falling, too.

I hope not. Hell, I've been a fan this long, and I'll keep hoping that he steps his game up at the right time. But that's a fan's hope, and not an objective look at the season.

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I could see Pop throwing Simmons out there in a game getting out of hand like Houston is doing with KJ McDaniels here. It would be a swim or sink moment for Simmons, but I would not count him out.. Defense is not going to be the same as Danny but as you point out, good offense is your best defense at times.

I don't think his trade value is high, as most GMs probably view him as a player with obvious shortcomings who fits into the Spur system... Ultimately, I'd love an upgrade that sends Danny to the bench-- someone like Nick Batum, who would give the Spurs another ballhandler and passer, something they'll be in desperate need of with Manu & Tony either retiring/aging... With the salary cap going up in the next few years, $10mil will still a bit high for a bench player, but not out of the question for a 25mpg guy. Love his D, but I have to admit it's frustrating to watch a guy who is a guard in the NBA be such a poor ball handler...

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Originally Posted by BillMc

Well said. And you're right the topic is next season so my bad. That said, I'm still for giving Danny an offseason to work on his shot. We wouldn't get equal value for him and his deal is pretty good with the cap going up. Of course the rumor that Atlanta offered Holford for him shows he does have value out there. But I'd like to keep him. He's one of the poster boys for the d-league success story. If Simmons has half the career Danny's had, we'll be in good shap.

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Well as far as what actually WILL happen, I think you're dead on. The Spurs wouldn't get equal value for him, like you say. And if Duncan retires, that will already leave a big hole to fill. The Spurs can't afford to trade down (or to take the chance of it), and they can't really afford to buy two quality starters.

People always talk about the Spurs' remarkable success over a long period of time. Continuity has been a big part of that. If I just had to make a bet, it would be that they stand pat with Danny, no matter what. Whether or not they can contend for a title, without Danny picking it up? That's another story.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Well as far as what actually WILL happen, I think you're dead on. The Spurs wouldn't get equal value for him, like you say. And if Duncan retires, that will already leave a big hole to fill. The Spurs can't afford to trade down (or to take the chance of it), and they can't really afford to buy two quality starters.

People always talk about the Spurs' remarkable success over a long period of time. Continuity has been a big part of that. If I just had to make a bet, it would be that they stand pat with Danny, no matter what. Whether or not they can contend for a title, without Danny picking it up? That's another story.

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Good point. But it's unfair to Kawhi and LMA to stand pat with Danny and Tony when the two together will not continue to cut it. But, we may be cliff jumping. Playoffs still have to be played. I tend to think he gets another season too but Tony further aging and Manu retiring puts them in dire straits.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Good point. But it's unfair to Kawhi and LMA to stand pat with Danny and Tony when the two together will not continue to cut it. But, we may be cliff jumping. Playoffs still have to be played. I tend to think he gets another season too but Tony further aging and Manu retiring puts them in dire straits.

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It's unfair that there is a soft cap, and we're a small market team. But that's sort of life. The Spurs either have to find someone better, for a price they can afford, or stick with what they have. If you're including Tony, then you're talking about buying three quality starters. That's tough to do - especially on their budget. And getting stronger at one position, and weaker at another probably doesn't make them a stronger title contender.

When you trade a player, and don't get full value, it's a talent drain. The Spurs don't get anywhere NEAR the talent infusion out of the draft, over time, because they are always one of the last teams to pick. So if they bleed value through trades, they're going to be looking at re-building years. If you think this place melts down over Danny missing 3-point shots, and failing to go 41-0 at home - that's nothing compared to what would happen if they had to go through a re-build.

Just my opinion, but I doubt that they can afford to trade Green, because of the other needs they will have. But I've learned about trying to guess what the Spurs will do personnel-wise.

We all kept hoping his shooting would recover by the end of the season. No such luck. His 3pt average percentage dropped by a staggering 8.6% this year. Previous averages were over 41% and this year .332%. When something like that happens over an entire season, there has to be a reason and a serious reason. Some past players with such a dropoff had eyesight problems, drug problems or too much partying problems or the effect of a big contract. The eyes can be tested and probably fixed by treatment. The other problems not so much.

I've also noticed a lack of focus and sporadic lack of effort on defense. Something is fucked up in this young man's head.

Trade him for Batum S&T.

please please please