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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15...ve-athleticism
Some big who has a 30" vertical is such a super rare thing, but then .....
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=371538
Russell and Wilt with 39" verticals back in the day.
Today's NBA :lol
:lol today's NBA
You shit on your pants again but your home care worker isnt available? Should just live in a home for the elderly.
it's a well known fact that wilt and russell would sleep their way to titles if they were playing today.
:cry I have nothing to add but I still want to say somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
:cry HarlemHeat, who is actually me, please come in and back me up
:cry athletic ability is so much better in today's game, but then some kind of physical specimen like Drummond can't even be considered a top 10 player in the league despite his enormous physical advantage over everyone else
:lol Andre Drummond some kind of physical wonder, but can't even hit 40% of his FTs
:lol No post moves, actually, no moves at all on offense
:lol Athleticism with no skills. Haven't we seen this before? Stromile Swift, William Bedford, Benoit Benjamin, and a long list of busts along the way
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
Ok grandpa. I know you enjoyed the days of watching white anerican basketball, but there is no reason to be this agitated. You can get a stroke.
40%?Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
But better fundamentals
Better nutrition
Eastern bloc methods
Advanced stats
Etc etc
WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THOSE THINGS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
Vince Carter still has a 38" vertical at 38, judging athleticism solely on vertical :lol doesn't know how to judge athleticism :lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
Russel & Wilt MAYBE had a 39" vertical when they were rookies, and they weren't 280lb rookies like Drummond, not even close. I wouldn't be surprised if they lied though, you could get away with all sorts of bullshit back then like lying about your height, people used to believe Sampson was 7'4 & Olajuwon 7'0 :rollin
https://turnernbaallball.files.wordp.../173406690.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
Monkey baller Kemp taking it to Olajuwon, Hakeem was lucky Kemp couldn't even dribble a ball :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb-Xs901EWs
Plz, stop kemp :cry
Kemp was like a 1 dimensional smaller version of Bron too that's what's really sad
holly shit Sampson is barely 7'1 there :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Practically all of these guys had their heights exaggerated by 2-3 inches. Mutombo, although he's a bit hunched over from age doesn't look the 7'2 he's listed at.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
These days heights are much more accurate, usually guys up their heights 1-1.25" (with shoes), but rarely 2-3 inches like these old school players did.
If we did that in today's league players like Leonard would be 6'8, Marjanovic 7'5, Durant 6'11, etc.
Why do you always use youtube highlights to back up your shitty arguments?
Here's how Kemp played against Dream over their careers:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=olajuha01
And :lol today's heights more accurate. 6'8" Dwight Howard is listed as 6'11".
Here's 6'9" Bill Russell standing next to "6'9" Ben Wallace.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d...0Ben%25201.jpg
As usual, you're full of shit. Every NBA fan who actually knows the history of the game knows that in Russell's day, players were measured barefoot as opposed to in shoes, like today.
And here's 6'9" Bill Russell alongside 6'11" Tim Duncan.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/450...rPjytKk8fE4Rle
"6'9" Paul George :lmao
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/181...BYYxJk5x1jTXoY
:lol Today's heights are more accurate.
For someone who is promoting new = better, you sure have a lot of recycled old shticks.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Hey, get more videos of athletic players, they are so athletic they MUST be good.
Apparently those things do not help with FT shooting :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by lefty
Wilt was 7'1" 275lbs, without Eastern Bloc training methods. If he had those, Wilt would be 360lbs of pure muscle and have a 6' vertical leap, can run 100m in under 6 seconds, long jump 70 feet, and shot put 400 metres. You know, EB training make any normal Joe Schmloe into superman.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And you did notice that 6'11" Dwight was in that photo next to Hakeem and Sampson, right? Why didn't they measure Dwight accurately at 6'8"?
Kevin Love is 6'10" :lol standing next to 6'8" Derrick Williams
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1229...ove_sy_576.jpg
But Charles Barkley was only 6'4" :cry
http://i.imgur.com/kz8SVrz.jpg
Kemp couldn't dribble? One of the more revolutionary things about Kemp was how well he could handle the ball and go coast to coast.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And glad you brought up Kemp, he was more or less one of the most athletic bigs to ever play the game. While he was good, no one in their right minds would ever put him in the top 20, or even top 30 players of all time. This is taken into account he played in the league when Eastern Bloc training methods became popular (according to some random guy who put up random and often self-contradictory claims), so he was playing against :cry white American basketball players :cry all the time, and yet he still didn't dominate.
Booooom goes the dynamite :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by midnightpulp
NBA TV ratings plummeting since the 90's, in regular season, Finals, and all star games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ielsen_ratings
:lol today's NBA
:lol two team league with inflated regular season records
:lol Warriors "historic" season, during worst mass tanking NBA has ever seen
:lol today's Center position
:lol mental midgets, Dwert, Cousins, 50 year old Jim best defensive big :lol
:lol overrated, ref coddled softass wings, Harden, glass ankles Curry, Chucking Rapist, Beta Durant/LeRoid
:lol even fatass Americans don't give a shit about :lol today's NBA
:lol TV ratings peaking in the 90's
:lol aesthetically pleasing no-talent scrubs
:lol faggots
TD has about 2" in Russel:Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightpulp
http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/im...630&h=420&q=75
And PG was a 6'7 rookie in that picture, he grew 2" to 6'9 from his rookie year:
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id509444064
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightpulp
Howard is listed as 6'9 on draftexpress w/out shoes and 6'10 with them, he's practically the same height as Olajuwon.
"Measurements prior to 2000 are based on newspaper articles rather than official league documents. While the measurements reported in such articles are reported to be officially from the predraft camp, we are taking those writers at their word and can not completely verify that information."-Draftexpress
Heights are more accurately listed, some heights were accurate, others were completely off.
You could come up with all sorts of bullshit back then, in fact I'm sure Mutombo lied about his age, he's in his late 40's in that pic but looks like he's at least around 60 :lol
And Kemp was young, it took him years to fill his body out:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ictureid=20363
Even Leonard was bigger as a rookie :lmao
Kemp's ball handling was shit compared to a Griffin or Bron or any other point forwards:rollin it just looked great around other bigs/players that were also shit ball handlers. Everybody raves about Olajuwon's athleticism yet he couldn't even handle Kemp.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
Kemp took years to fill his body out, look at the post above, he always gave Olajuwon trouble and was bullying him when he finally did fill out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molotov
That just accounts for American TV ratings, the game's popularity has expanded and exploded globally from the millions to the billions :lol
Hmmm ... Let me guess why that is .... Oh, right, Jordan, a player in the late 80s to 90s expanded that game!Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Boom.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
I'm not sure what you are thinking, but I'm sure you will frown upon cross generational gay sex like how the klan frowns upon interracial relationships.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And 2"? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Olajuwon couldn't handle kemp? Really? Did you see those h2h stats? I mean, 8 points on 2 for 9 shooting? 6 points? 9 points? Wth kind of bullying is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And no, kemps ball handling is on par with the Griffins of the world. Lebron is once in a generation talent which is why I he's an all time great. Magic hand similar handles and vision and he was about the same height. Same with Larry bird what does athleticism have to deal with handling people. Duncan's one of the least story of players and he dominated for years, even after his legs gave out.
Zach Randolph, also one of the least athletic players around, plays griffin just fine.
Kemp bullied Olajuwon? Based on one YouTube clip? Oh right, let's just ignore all those h2h stats. Let's go with a 3 mi ute YouTube clip. Besides, Hakeem wasn't even guarding kemp on a lot of those athletic plays. The ones kemp scored on Hakeem which had nothing to do with athleticism.
Btw, you pushing kemp doesn't really help you because he was an athletic big in the 90s, you know, without all those superpower giving training and nutrition that's available nowadays?
You picture of Duncan and Russell is from the waist up. I know you posted that particular one because there's no other pictures that show Duncan being any taller than Russell :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And :lol "It was from Paul George's rookie year." That pic was taken when he signed his contract extension in 2013. Your photo is also taken from the waist up. The best photo out there of the two standing side by side shows Bird standing a good two inches above George. Also, your example was taken at a game, while the other photo was taken at a press conference. In the former, George would be wearing basketball shoes to Bird's dress shoes, and basketball shoes have thicker shoes. In the latter, both are wearing dress shoes.
And :lol at Howard being as tall as Dream. The photo you posted yourself shows Hakeem standing a good 1" taller, not to mention showing his much longer wingspan. Also worth mentioning is that when you get older, you do start to shrink. About half an inch per decade after 40.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molotov
http://i67.tinypic.com/16gn5gp.gif
You're an idiot, Olajuwon was already an established player, Kemp was a 230lb rookie in 89', it took him years to fill out his body and hone his game. There is a BIG difference between rookie & prime Kemp of about 30lbs of pure muscle.Quote:
Olajuwon couldn't handle kemp? Really? Did you see those h2h stats? I mean, 8 points on 2 for 9 shooting? 6 points? 9 points? Wth kind of bullying is that?
Kemp could not handle the ball like Griffin, George, KD, Giannis, etc. :rollinif he could he would've been playing point guard like these guys do and NOBODY would've been able to stop him:Quote:
And no, kemps ball handling is on par with the Griffins of the world. Lebron is once in a generation talent which is why I he's an all time great. Magic hand similar handles and vision and he was about the same height. Same with Larry bird what does athleticism have to deal with handling people. Duncan's one of the least story of players and he dominated for years, even after his legs gave out.
Zach Randolph, also one of the least athletic players around, plays griffin just fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f96b5XAbHhc
Johnson was tall but wasn't nearly as explosive as these guys :lol, you really don't know what you're looking at, this dude looks nothing like Bron, he looks pretty damn slow, everyone else around him was just shit athletes so his ball handling looked special:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3ThUlFiRF0
-Duncan & Z-Bo are surrounded by great defensive perimeter players that are able to counter and provide help defense, did you forget we've had the Green-Leonard combo all these years? You don't even realize that's one of the best perimeter duos ever :lol.
It's much easier to defend the post and bigs in general when your help defenders aren't scrubs from the 80's/90s, this current Spurs squad would fare much better against Shaq's 00's Lakers with Green-Leonard as the help defenders as opposed to Bowen or Turkoglu.
Hakeem couldn't guard Kemp or keep him off the boards, way too big and agile, his perimeter defense on him was shit look how slow he was, he was forced to camp in the paint, HOU couldn't counter him, very few teams could, Kemp was a dominant player with such a limited skill set. Like I said, Olajuwon was lucky Kemp couldn't play point guard, nobody in the league would've been able to have countered him.Quote:
Kemp bullied Olajuwon? Based on one YouTube clip? Oh right, let's just ignore all those h2h stats. Let's go with a 3 mi ute YouTube clip. Besides, Hakeem wasn't even guarding kemp on a lot of those athletic plays. The ones kemp scored on Hakeem which had nothing to do with athleticism.
Btw, you pushing kemp doesn't really help you because he was an athletic big in the 90s, you know, without all those superpower giving training and nutrition that's available nowadays?
Kemp didn't fill out or start to peak until the mid 90's, he outplayed Olajuwon in the 95-96 playoffs, his prime was short lived due to him becoming an alcoholic the following off season. He came back in '96-97 bloated, out of shape and full of water weight from drinking so much, that was the beginning of the end for Kemp.
-TD tends to slouch, he does have around 2" on him:Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightpulp
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...259f5e93c6.jpg
(pic is too big)
-I assumed it was from his rookie year, however looking at the full pic Bird is standing slightly ahead of him, the pic is taken at a weird angle.
Look at Granger/Bird & Granger/George. PG is 6'9, the pic I provided is much more accurate.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2009...es/bird608.jpg
http://i.prphotos.com/f/3872/WBU-003...t-20,-2011.jpg
-Howard has a much wider stance than Olajuwon, and your body doesn't break down that fast when you're a pro athlete like Olajuwon. Makes me really believe Mutombo lied about his age, cause you know, you could do that shit in the 80's/90s :lol
Olajuwon has standing reach on Howard but not wingspan, Howard's has him beat by like 3"
So I guess you REALLY didn't see those h2h stats. Those were in years 92 onwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Since you are a special kind of stupid, here you go again:
http://bkref.com/tiny/TK9po
- 8 points and 6 rebounds in 92, with Hakeem putting up 23 and 11
- 8 points on 3-13 shooting, while Hakeem was raining 23 on 9-14 shooting in 93
- 8 points on 2-9 shooting, while Hakeem got 26 on 10-20 shooting in 95
- 6 points on 2-7 shooting in 97 (Hakeem was already passed his prime at that point).
But what does it matter? Hakeem, as shown on the video you linked, didn't even guard Kemp most of the game.
Barkley, Hakeem, Kemp were players who regularly handled the ball like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Just a random clip of Kemp:
Barkley guard skills:
And Kemp didn't play point guard because ... hmmm ... I don't know, maybe because he had Gary Payton, one of the best PGs ever playing that position? And why isn't Blake playing PG and killing everyone?
So you REALLY are that special type of stupid. I specifically said athleticism has nothing to do with it, and it is shown with Magic, and Bird, both unathletic guys, but players of about the same height, can handle the ball and manage the ball handling duQuote:
Originally Posted by KL2
:lol, You do realize Duncan didn't spend the entire career playing with Leonard/Green, right? He played with Johnson and Jaren Jackson, he played with Steve Smith and Terry Porter, he managed despite his average athleticism. Same with Z-Bo, who managed to play Griffin well despite the huge discrepancies in athleticism. Even against Griffin, Duncan was fine against him WITHOUT Leonard and Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
So in the previous sentence, you said Duncan had these great perimeter defenders, and now, you are saying Bowen and Turkoglu sucked? Then how did Duncan defend back then with these crappy defenders? Huh? And :lol saying Green/Leonard > Bowen on defense. Bowen was one of the greatest defenders in the last 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Limited skill set? Kemp could handle the ball, rebound, defend, shoot mid to semi long range jumpers, attack the paint, post up, run the court. Other than passing, most of his skills were elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And yeah, Hakeem was slow :lol, what the hell were you smoking? Hakeem was quick as hell, he was chasing down PGs on fast breaks, and was one of the most agile bigs the game has ever seen. And then Hakeem couldn't handle Kemp, yet Kemp had multiple poor games vs. Hakeem during Kemp's prime. You are really horrible at this.
:lol, Hakeem was limited because the entire Sonics collapsed on him, and played a very confusing/effective rotating defensive scheme honed in purely to stop Hakeem. Despite that, Hakeem STILL put up 19/10/4/2 vs. the Sonics. It clearly wasn't his best series (actually one of his worst), but those numbers are ones Griffin will kill for.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
BTW, Kemp got seriously out of shape in the 99 lock out, get your facts straight before you spew your ill-informed, poorly researched bullshit.
ambchang have some mercy :lol
ambchang with one of the greatest ST destructions ive ever seen. *Salute*
Ambchang, sending KL2 to the gulag.
Those pictures prove my case. Granger stands about 1/2" below Bird, and in the pic alongside George, he's leaning while George is standing straight. Just look at the difference in shoulder height between George and Granger. Paul George 6'9" :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KL2
And TD was not slouching in the pic I posted of him and Russell. Furthermore, Duncan is wearing his basketball shoes while Russell is wearing dress shoes.
Here's "6'9" Russell (wearing dress shoes) standing with "6'7" Kawhi.
http://jocksandstilettojill.com/wp-c...ll-Russell.jpg
Russell is a good 3-3.5" taller.
Another pic:
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id450687832
Russell is just bigger across the board. Bigger head, much wider frame, and even longer arms than the freakishly long Leonard.
Johnson's ball handling was exceptional. Like usual, since you're a dipshit millennial raised on youtube highlights, you equate flashy and excessive dribbling with "good" dribbling (is that why you were impressed with Julian Newman :lol). While it's impressive that Griffin can dribble like that for a big, those moves in that vid were excessive and unnecessary (and yes, Griffin can ball handle efficiently, but that video doesn't really help your case). Magic, despite relatively average athleticism, knew how to maximize distance using his tall frame and long arms (for a PG) taking the fewest amount of dribbles. And a fact you always handwave away is your neglecting of how an HIV ravaged Magic returned after a 5 year layoff and put up very solid numbers at a time when the league was more athletic than ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
If you're trying to suggest that Magic wouldn't be a great player (in a vacuum) in today's league, there's ZERO evidence to support that claim.
And re: Hakeem vs. Kemp. In the 96 matchup, Kemp was at his basketball peak (26), and the best PF in the league for that season, while Hakeem was on the downward slope at 33. For as much as you excuse the performance of younger players against vets with the "body filling out" excuse (which is actually a legit idea, even if you misuse it the majority of the time), you never acknowledge the other side, like your stupid claim that the reason Lebron can't dominate like he once did anymore is because Giannis and Paul George's bodies have filled out :lol. Never mind the fact Lebron is 31, in his 13th season, and with a shitload of miles on his body. And yet, he's metrically still a top 2-3 player in the league :lol
You probably think I'm arguing out of some misplaced nostalgia, but no. I've admitted several times that the overall game has massively evolved since the 80's. I just take issue with your unrealistic overrating of modern day players, as if they're superheroes or some shit, and that older players, if transported here from their era wouldn't be able to learn the skills necessary to be great players in this era. If a 19 year old Magic were teleported here, does he go on to dominate like did in the 80's? Probably not, but he would still be a perennial all-star and yearly MVP candidate. Not a poor man's Efrid Payton or something like you would probably claim.
ambchang going nuclear :wow
KL2 fucking all the girls in this thread in all holes
http://i.imgur.com/vDxJOf6.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Kemp was still inexperienced in '92, he barely became starter that year, like I said, it took him years to hone his game and put on weight.Quote:
So I guess you REALLY didn't see those h2h stats. Those were in years 92 onwards.
Since you are a special kind of stupid, here you go again:
http://bkref.com/tiny/TK9po
- 8 points and 6 rebounds in 92, with Hakeem putting up 23 and 11
- 8 points on 3-13 shooting, while Hakeem was raining 23 on 9-14 shooting in 93
- 8 points on 2-9 shooting, while Hakeem got 26 on 10-20 shooting in 95
- 6 points on 2-7 shooting in 97 (Hakeem was already passed his prime at that point).
But what does it matter? Hakeem, as shown on the video you linked, didn't even guard Kemp most of the game.
Kemp was also struggling with alcohol/coke in '97 lmao, his prime was short lived. Olajuwon couldn't guard Kemp, Kemp was just 1 dimensional as fuck so his offense was limited.
Now I really know you have no idea what you're watching, their ball handling is shit and they don't move nearly as fluidly, especially Kemp's ball handling compared to these modern point forwards. These guys looked amazing around the Sleepy Floyds and Abdul-Raufs of the league, it's different playing against guys like Leonard and Green :lolQuote:
Barkley, Hakeem, Kemp were players who regularly handled the ball like that.
Just a random clip of Kemp:
Barkley guard skills:
And Kemp didn't play point guard because ... hmmm ... I don't know, maybe because he had Gary Payton, one of the best PGs ever playing that position? And why isn't Blake playing PG and killing everyone?
So you REALLY are that special type of stupid. I specifically said athleticism has nothing to do with it, and it is shown with Magic, and Bird, both unathletic guys, but players of about the same height, can handle the ball and manage the ball handling du
Quote:
:lol, You do realize Duncan didn't spend the entire career playing with Leonard/Green, right? He played with Johnson and Jaren Jackson, he played with Steve Smith and Terry Porter, he managed despite his average athleticism. Same with Z-Bo, who managed to play Griffin well despite the huge discrepancies in athleticism. Even against Griffin, Duncan was fine against him WITHOUT Leonard and Green.
Duncan was a very mobile big coming out of college, you keep acting like a stiff lmao. Even scouts were comparing his mobility to the likes of Olajuwon, do you really not remember how well he moved when he was younger?
Quote:
So in the previous sentence, you said Duncan had these great perimeter defenders, and now, you are saying Bowen and Turkoglu sucked? Then how did Duncan defend back then with these crappy defenders? Huh? And :lol saying Green/Leonard > Bowen on defense. Bowen was one of the greatest defenders in the last 20 years.
Perimeter players and teams have gotten much better, you should really stop posting, you're embarrassing yourself. Did you forget how far we've come from the days of Bron being able to lead his Cavs team to 60 wins with starters like Boobie Gibson, Illgauskus, Pavlovic, Hughes, etc.? That Pistons series they just swept was pretty competitive, and that's with help from Irving, Smith, Thompson, Love, etc. they'd smash Bron's old 60 wins Cavs team :lol
Kemp did have a limited skill set, his ball handling was poor compared to modern point forwards. He could get whatever he wanted on the perimeter, but if his shot wasn't falling he wasn't scoring and wound up with those 8pt games. And Kemp had been dealing with coke/alcohol problems mid 90's, that's why his production declined so rapidly.Quote:
Limited skill set? Kemp could handle the ball, rebound, defend, shoot mid to semi long range jumpers, attack the paint, post up, run the court. Other than passing, most of his skills were elite.
And yeah, Hakeem was slow :lol, what the hell were you smoking? Hakeem was quick as hell, he was chasing down PGs on fast breaks, and was one of the most agile bigs the game has ever seen. And then Hakeem couldn't handle Kemp, yet Kemp had multiple poor games vs. Hakeem during Kemp's prime. You are really horrible at this.
:lol, Hakeem was limited because the entire Sonics collapsed on him, and played a very confusing/effective rotating defensive scheme honed in purely to stop Hakeem. Despite that, Hakeem STILL put up 19/10/4/2 vs. the Sonics. It clearly wasn't his best series (actually one of his worst), but those numbers are ones Griffin will kill for.
BTW, Kemp got seriously out of shape in the 99 lock out, get your facts straight before you spew your ill-informed, poorly researched bullshit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xybqVNIs06o
Kemp was practically got whatever he wanted, just started missing point blank layups and wide open jumpers. Olajuwon had very few great defensive plays against him in '97. Dude was limited, Hakeem is lucky he was. Kemp's prime was short lived, his play started to rapidly declining once he started doing coke/alcohol in the mid 90's.
and Olajuwon generally struggled against SEA due to their defense containing elements of zone which is now legal :lol, like I said, it's much harder for bigs to thrive in the post like they once did against modern defenses.
Johnson had very little on the ball pressure and those defenses were porous. These days you can put a guy like Leonard on him and have him challenge him full court forcing him to give up the ball, forwards that are able to counter Magic's size are literally everywhere. Magic was guarded by some really shit defenders, half of them you don't even remember :lolQuote:
Johnson's ball handling was exceptional. Like usual, since you're a dipshit millennial raised on youtube highlights, you equate flashy and excessive dribbling with "good" dribbling (is that why you were impressed with Julian Newman :lol). While it's impressive that Griffin can dribble like that for a big, those moves in that vid were excessive and unnecessary (and yes, Griffin can ball handle efficiently, but that video doesn't really help your case). Magic, despite relatively average athleticism, knew how to maximize distance using his tall frame and long arms (for a PG) taking the fewest amount of dribbles. And a fact you always handwave away is your neglecting of how an HIV ravaged Magic returned after a 5 year layoff and put up very solid numbers at a time when the league was more athletic than ever.
I was also fooled by thinking Magic was 6'9, he's really closer to 6'7, another exaggerated height, makes what he did even less impressive.
Magic came back as a backup for 30 games in a lockout shortened season with everyone out of shape, anything is possible in those conditions.
Newman's ball handling is insanely good for a 10 year old lol, it's going to get significantly better.
If you're trying to suggest that Magic wouldn't be a great player (in a vacuum) in today's league, there's ZERO evidence to support that claim.
Hakeem was fully filled out in the mid 90's, younger Hakeem was raw and much lighter. Pick which version you want, younger Hakeem would get demolished by Kemp's size, only an older version is able to counter it and fare much better.Quote:
And re: Hakeem vs. Kemp. In the 96 matchup, Kemp was at his basketball peak (26), and the best PF in the league for that season, while Hakeem was on the downward slope at 33. For as much as you excuse the performance of younger players against vets with the "body filling out" excuse (which is actually a legit idea, even if you misuse it the majority of the time), you never acknowledge the other side, like your stupid claim that the reason Lebron can't dominate like he once did anymore is because Giannis and Paul George's bodies have filled out :lol. Never mind the fact Lebron is 31, in his 13th season, and with a shitload of miles on his body. And yet, he's metrically still a top 2-3 player in the league :lol
You probably think I'm arguing out of some misplaced nostalgia, but no. I've admitted several times that the overall game has massively evolved since the 80's. I just take issue with your unrealistic overrating of modern day players, as if they're superheroes or some shit, and that older players, if transported here from their era wouldn't be able to learn the skills necessary to be great players in this era. If a 19 year old Magic were teleported here, does he go on to dominate like did in the 80's? Probably not, but he would still be a perennial all-star and yearly MVP candidate. Not a poor man's Efrid Payton or something like you would probably claim.
Bron was leading his Cavs team filled with borderline NBA players to 60 wins, he would not be able to do the same thing in today's league when he's struggling to get 57 wins with Love-Irving-Smith-Thompson etc. the 8th seed Pistons just gave them a competitive series, they would've beaten Bron's old Cavs team.
As far as bigs from the 90s go, much of the peak players at the position would still be able to play in today's league, however it's the smaller positions where we've seen the most increase in talent.
:lol, every time he had a bad game, it was because he was inexperienced or he was struggling with some kind of problem. Kemp made the allstar game from 93 to 98, he was all nba 2nd team 94 to 96, he had MVP votes 93, 94, 96 and 99. Yeah, his prime was short lived, but 92 and 97 was part of his prime. Kemp was a malcontent in Seattle because of contract issues, he struggled with weight, and later had his alcohol problems in full view during/after the 99 lockout.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
http://ca.complex.com/sports/2013/09...hol/shawn-kemp
Come to think of it, I am surprised you didn't post this article because, you know, you have a habit of posting thing that contradict what you are trying to prove.Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
And oh, what happened to 93 and 95? Is his prime only in 94 and 96 now? Is his prime on game by game basis? You know, he was at his prime Saturday, but he went take a dump, lost two pounds, meaning he wasn't at his optimum weight on Monday vs. Hakeem in the game, so he was technically out of his prime that game. Is that how it goes?
As for your 1-dimension comment, see below.
You know, Kemp's ball handling was just fine, on par with Griffin, and same as Barkley. Who, guess what, are all PF. BTW, what other PF in today's advance bio-mechanical league have these advanced ball-handling skills? Ibaka? Or has his body filled out yet to handle these advance skills?Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
As for no idea what I am watching, I know what I watched showed Kemp and Barkley leading breaks and breaking down defense. I also saw in pictures you posted showing how much Dwight is shorter than Hakeem, or George shorter than Bird though. :lol you talking about people don't know what they are watching, I mean, you practically post evidence contrary to what you are trying to prove in every post. It's like you are actively trying to prove you are a retard (of which you are VERY successful at).
Mobility and athleticism is the same thing now? And why are you taking Hakeem as some sort of benchmark? I thought he was horrible! Can't even guard a no-ball-handling scrub like Kemp.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Maybe because the East just sucked back then? You know what? The 07 Spurs swept that team, because that team really sucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Too bad Bron's body didn't fill out back then, eh? They couldn't have demolished the Spurs :lol
Hmm, point forwards in today's game .... George, Lebron, Kawhi, who else ... wait, they are all SF! Holy shit! Is it true that SF generally have better handles than PF? Oh my, that is one of the most profound revelations I have ever read! OMG, what I am going to do with this new found knowledge. Can you tell me, oh great one, whether PG have better handles than Centers?Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
:lol getting whatever he wanted, yet in the video you posted the commentators were talking about how bad he was playing in the 2nd half because he got shut down by Hakeem.
You said he was 1-dimensional? In the video you posted, he drove, had mid/long range jumpers, drove, ran fast break, right hooks, floaters, finger rolls. He was shut down by Hakeem in the 2nd half though, but then Hakeem was one of the greatest defenders ever, so I can't really blame Kemp.