Why aren't we having a National conversation about Leftist violence?

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes. History repeats itself. There will be more human conflict.
Simplistic BS.

Quit trying to stretch those links to make a point I'm not debating.

No violence at Trump rallies. Just leave the idiots alone or protest peacefully. But you wanna extend this continuously.

I can't stop you. so keep going, I will just paste this back in I guess.

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That is not what I said. I am more concerned about an authoritarian regime taking over the country. I am not talking about conflict. Nuance is hard for you.

I am not going to say that there is never a reason to become violent at a political rally. Sorry I won't use that type of slave morality.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Words have many definitions. That you pigeonhole down to one and insist denotes your scope.

I asked you to justify the "I know you are but what am I" response to how I characterize the Darrin account and you failed already.

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What?

I said the article was shit in bringing this up as a very clear response to the violence at Trump rallies. That subject could be addressed in many different cases. It's not some new insightful debate and also used at an inappropriate moment IMO.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

That is not what I said. I am more concerned about an authoritarian regime taking over the country. I am not talking about conflict. Nuance is hard for you.

I am not going to say that there is never a reason to become violent at a political rally. Sorry I won't use that type of slave morality.

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Well then don't respond to my point with your extensions into other subject areas. You responded to my post. Go back and read again. Keeping on subject is difficult for you.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

What?

I said the article was shit in bringing this up as a very clear response to the violence at Trump rallies. That subject could be addressed in many different cases. It's not some new insightful debate and also used at an inappropriate moment IMO.

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Please quote the part of the article that states that. He starts off the article discussing Trumps provocations and then talks about people like you with your blanket dismissals. He then talks about multiple times where violent protest ended up in change stating that blanket statements such as yours are unfounded. He gets what I am talking about. You cannot apparently.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Well then don't respond to my point with your extensions into other subject areas. You responded to my post. Go back and read again.

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:lol if it applies it applies. not my fault you struggle to keep up.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

What?

I said the article was shit in bringing this up as a very clear response to the violence at Trump rallies. That subject could be addressed in many different cases. It's not some new insightful debate and also used at an inappropriate moment IMO.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

You just described yourself.
Congrats.

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Damn you cannot even keep up with yourself. Are you drinking or something?

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Please quote the part of the article that states that. He starts off the article discussing Trumps provocations and then talks about people like you with your blanket dismissals. He then talks about multiple times where violent protest ended up in change stating that blanket statements such as yours are unfounded. He gets what I am talking about. You cannot apparently.

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No.

Its simple.

Dont respond with violence given the Trump events.

Then stop.
Simple.

Again. This article could be used for a myriad of events that occur everyday around the world. This is not a revolution.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Damn you cannot even keep up with yourself. Are you drinking or something?

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Ahh now you play AA counselor.
Stellar.

Keep chasing your tail. The irony of your responses is amusing.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

:lol if it applies it applies. not my fault you struggle to keep up.

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Thats the problem.

It does not address what I have stated and your extensions.
And now we got the emoticons.
Reaching new levels of rubbish.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

No.

Its simple.

Dont respond with violence given the Trump events.

Then stop.
Simple.

Again. This article could be used for a myriad of events that occur everyday around the world. This is not a revolution.

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There is no similar blanket condemnation. Given that was a central point of his article you're just wrong.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Thats the problem.

It does not address what I have stated and your extensions.
And now we got the emoticons.
Reaching new levels of rubbish.

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I just quoted what you said. Your ability to keep up is what is rubbish. I used the emoticon because it's reaching comic levels.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

There is no similar blanket condemnation. Given that was a central point of his article you're just wrong.

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No you are wrong.

Again, this article could be used much more usefully for other events and bottom line it has implies the use of violence should be used in certain cases (but condemns it) Speaking out of both sides of the mouth. It's obvious and fraudulent. It's linked to the Trump events.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

No you are wrong.

Again, this article could be used much more usefully for other events and bottom line it has implies the use of violence should be used in certain cases (but condemns it) Speaking out of both sides of the mouth. It's obvious and fraudulent. It's linked to the Trump events.

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Again he doesn't subscribe to your slave morality of a universal answer but instead says each case must be looked at individually because sometimes violence does work for the greater good. He does so with examples.

You are blinded by your ego's own worldview and fail to anticipate that of others.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

I just quoted what you said. Your ability to keep up is what is rubbish. I used the emoticon because it's reaching comic levels.

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The keeping up is not the problem. It's you being disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Again he doesn't subscribe to your slave morality of a universal answer but instead says each case must be looked at individually because sometimes violence does work for the greater good. He does so with examples.

You are blinded by your ego's own worldview and fail to anticipate that of others.

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You are simply blinded by your ego.
Thats enough. You keep rehashing the same crap.

But don't let that stop you.

This is the thesis of the article:

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As a result, a litany of think-pieces and condemnations from liberal media and politicians are making their rounds to make it clear how unacceptable and counterproductive any violence or rioting is, urging people to “listen to the other side,” and to use “legitimate means“ to fight Trump’s rise—ignoring the possibility of fascism in the US rising with it. Those who stray from this nonviolent narrative, like Emmet Rensin, an editor at Vox who tweeted that people should riot when Trump comes to town, face swift and punitive redress, urging them to fall back in line. Amidst the hot takes and denunciations from liberals, they all seem to miss a few key points. First, they misplace the blame. Second, they misunderstand the desired outcome from violent resistance and those protesting Trump in general. And third, they ignore the history of successful violent insurrection in the US, instead favoring the elementary school version of history in which nonviolence is the only means of struggle that’s ever achieved a thing.

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:lol and you were complaining about my discussion of fascism as an aside.

Point 1

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Point one. These denunciations of violence from anti-Trump protestors rest on the misguided view that the divide Trump’s exposed is a typical political disagreement between partisans, and should be handled as such. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Trump might not be a fascist in the 20th century European sense of the term—though many of his supporters are—but he might represent its 21st century US version. There’s no doubt he’s expanded the Overton Window to include rhetoric previously well outside its bounds. His calls for a “deportation force“ to expel 11+ million people from the country, his claims that most Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals, his calls to keep databases of Muslims and to enact a total ban on Muslims entering the country, his rampant sexism, his mocking people with disabilities, and his propensity for lying have brought the already pathetic state of US political discourse to astoundingly precarious lows. Treating this like politics as usual allows it to become politics as usual, and those who do so risk complicity ushering in a new era of fascist politics in the United States.

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You at no point address his point that this isn't politics as usual where your blanket statements make sense. That last line I find particularly compelling. Trump becoming status quo is a real danger and worth fighting against.

Fuzzman
Fuzzman
Fuzzman

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Violence is counterproductive During Trump rallies.
Period.

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Now you can continue with the but, but...
You act like I want the man elected.
I am telling you this violence is part of how you get him elected.

End of story.

If you wish to go through the French Revolution with me and discuss when violence was necessary and when violence was counterproductive we can create another thread.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Fuzzman
Fuzzman
Fuzzman






Now you can continue with the but, but...
You act like I want the man elected.
I am telling you this violence is part of how you get him elected.

End of story.

If you wish to go through the French Revolution with me and discuss when violence was necessary and when violence was counterproductive we can create another thread.

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they ignore the history of successful violent insurrection in the US, instead favoring the elementary school version of history in which nonviolence is the only means of struggle that’s ever achieved a thing.

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You're slave moralising again. How is that going to get him elected particularly when he obviously brought this upon himself? Since the violence started he has done worse in the polls empirically.

You would be Chamberlain following the invasion of Czechoslovakia. Naive in your moral delusion.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

You're slave moralising again. How is that going to get him elected particularly when he obviously brought this upon himself? Since the violence started he has done worse in the polls empirically.

You would be Chamberlain following the invasion of Czechoslovakia. Naive in your moral delusion.

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Fuzz

This is not a revolution. This is not the beginning of an apocalypse. This is NOT a NAZI invasion. "Ignoring the history of violent INSURRECTION" Insurrection?
Really?

Explain how sucker punching innocent people (albeit naive IMO) in the back of the head is akin to a violent INSURRECTION?
This is the problem. This is not some fight for freedom. It's simple cowardice. It's punks finding a way to have some summer fun by way of protesters getting too nasty. You can see it in the videos. Some of the protesters actually realize by throwing shit, pulling hats off, screaming face to face, they created a mess, Some even attempt to hold the punks back. It's not a mass movement of violence as SA wants people to believe. Liberals are buying into this. Incredible...

This would not have occurred with a peaceful counterprotest. Period end of story. Don't give punks an avenue to act out. This is not a blanket statement, this is specifically concerning the Trump protesters allowing punks to act out. Keep protesting but please get rid of the spitting hat pulling screaming. Use less aggressive tactics. Simple.

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Fuzz

This is not a revolution. This is not the beginning of an apocalypse. This is NOT a NAZI invasion. "Ignoring the history of violent INSURRECTION" Insurrection?
Really?

Explain how sucker punching innocent people (albeit naive IMO) in the back of the head is akin to a violent INSURRECTION?
This is the problem. This is not some fight for freedom. It's simple cowardice. It's punks finding a way to have some summer fun by way of protesters getting too nasty. You can see it in the videos. Some of the protesters actually realize by throwing shit, pulling hats off, screaming face to face, they created a mess, Some even attempt to hold the punks back. It's not a mass movement of violence as SA wants people to believe. Liberals are buying into this. Incredible...

This would not have occurred with a peaceful counterprotest. Period end of story. Don't give punks an avenue to act out. This is not a blanket statement, this is specifically concerning the Trump protesters allowing punks to act out. Keep protesting but please get rid of the spitting hat pulling screaming. Use less aggressive tactics. Simple.

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Yeah violent insurrection. The gay bar in California, the LA riots, the St Louis riots, the American revolution, the Harper rebellion leading up to the Civil War, all kinds of shit during the 1960s for all the MLK handwaving, and all manner of violent insurrection has led to change for the better in the history of this country alone.

People see him as an authoritarian unto Mussolini and a racist unto George Wallace, David Duke, and the nazis. He wants to oppress people setting up camps for immigrants, banning muslims, and blaming the poor. He tells his people to 'punch them in the face' and that 'he will cover their legal fees.' And you're surprised people come looking for a fight.

And despite it coming back the other way, I suggest you go back to March when the violence was directed the other way. Prior to that they simply would be loud and try to interrupt the rallies with chants. Trump supporters started attacking them with Trump encouragement. That was when Trump started talking about paying legal fees and how things 'used to be' after they were arrested. Now that things have escalated you want to point the finger because people don't want to take the Salt March?

It's a group of about 700 people. That you are surprised and carrying on that it escalated in the Bay area last week is hilarious considering the area. You don't call out people there as a general rule. I guess you identify as liberal and are scared to be conflated with the protesters. That's what you see as counterproductive. I don't see pluralism having to work like that.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Yeah violent insurrection. The gay bar in California, the LA riots, the St Louis riots, the American revolution, the Harper rebellion leading up to the Civil War, all kinds of shit during the 1960s for all the MLK handwaving, and all manner of violent insurrection has led to change for the better in the history of this country alone.

People see him as an authoritarian unto Mussolini and a racist unto George Wallace, David Duke, and the nazis. He wants to oppress people setting up camps for immigrants, banning muslims, and blaming the poor. He tells his people to 'punch them in the face' and that 'he will cover their legal fees.' And you're surprised people come looking for a fight.

And despite it coming back the other way, I suggest you go back to March when the violence was directed the other way. Prior to that they simply would be loud and try to interrupt the rallies with chants. Trump supporters started attacking them with Trump encouragement. That was when Trump started talking about paying legal fees and how things 'used to be' after they were arrested. Now that things have escalated you want to point the finger because people don't want to take the Salt March?

It's a group of about 700 people. That you are surprised and carrying on that it escalated in the Bay area last week is hilarious considering the area. You don't call out people there as a general rule. I guess you identify as liberal and are scared to be conflated with the protesters. That's what you see as counterproductive. I don't see pluralism having to work like that.

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Sorry Fuzz.

This is not anything like the events you named.

So basically you agree with SA. This is a violent leftist uprising. Only you say it is in reaction to legitimate threats made by the other side. So you side with SA on his call but also go further with a call to violence. This is not the 60s and George Wallace. No way no how. We have not sent nor lost large numbers of drafted young men. You can't talk 60s without Vietnam. And we are in no way close to post WW1 and the hardships it caused resulting in horrid economic conditions required for real authoritarian leaders.

Basically there is no way in hell I categorize what I commented on with the events listed above. I think people choose to think the time the live they live in is as extraordinary as others in history. I am going to say IMO you are off on this.

I would be called liberal by some, conservative by others. Depends on which group of friends I'm with.

Aside: In fact I would say Trump is actually garnering many votes from neutrals who see a giant establishment boogie man because of the unique nature of the primaries and the current lack of cleaner candidates.

Fuzz

Do you have relatives or friends/acquaintances who plan to vote for Trump?

I do.

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Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex

It will be impossible, over the long term, to maintain peace and even national unity if elite media and the Democratic party continue to condone and even encourage political violence and the systematic violation of individual rights by its radical progressive base. From Occupy to Ferguson to Baltimore to the unrest on campus, Americans have watched the liberal establishment trip over itself to express solidarity and sympathy with protesters who’ve burned, looted, shut down roads and parks, and violated the fundamental rights of American citizens. As Trump supporters are fond of pointing out on Twitter, this didn’t happen at a Trump event:

For the better part of two years, millions of Americans have watched as violence and disruption actually work. At college campuses, radical students and allied professors and administrators will shout down dissenters, intimidate fellow students, disrupt the educational process, and win.

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=-webkit-standard]In the streets of American cities, protesters will riot, vandalize, block traffic, and invade shops and restaurants, and they win. When the narratives (“Hands up, don’t shoot,” or “It’s open season” on black males) are debunked by facts, protesters still prevail. Police tactics change even as the national murder rate seems set for its largest spike in 25 years. In the nation’s 50 largest cities, 770 more people were murdered in 2015 than in the previous year. Yet with the exception of a few courageous progressives, the Left largely hails this unrest. Even riots are excused or minimized by leading figures in the liberal intelligentsia, and mob actions that violate the free-speech rights of fellow citizens — by shouting down or shutting down events the Left doesn’t like — are whitewashed as “peaceful protest.”

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Blocking traffic good now.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Blocking traffic good now.

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what does it feel like to wake up everyday and have me on your mind? You live a pathetic life :lol

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Originally Posted by TSA

what does it feel like to wake up everyday and have me on your mind? You live a pathetic life :lol

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He just searched for block ambulance and your redassing came up. You sure don't want to talk about it now.:lol

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

He just searched for block ambulance and your redassing came up. You sure don't want to talk about it now.:lol

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Actually it was "block traffic".

But close enough. :D

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Originally Posted by TSA

what does it feel like to wake up everyday and have me on your mind? You live a pathetic life :lol

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Nope. Didn't search for you specifically.

Did a thread search for "block traffic" because I remember this being a big thing you morons were bitching about a few years back when it was lefty protesters doing it. Your old account came up as one of the mentions. Don't flatter yourself.

Now is your chance to say "blocking traffic is bad no matter who does it".

Or be a fucking hypocritical piece of shit. Which is it? "Blocking traffic is bad, even when right-wingers do it?" or "I am a hypocritical piece of shit"

Your call.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Nope. Didn't search for you specifically.

Did a thread search for "block traffic" because I remember this being a big thing you morons were bitching about a few years back when it was lefty protesters doing it. Your old account came up as one of the mentions. Don't flatter yourself.

Now is your chance to say "blocking traffic is bad no matter who does it".

Or be a fucking hypocritical piece of shit. Which is it? "Blocking traffic is bad, even when right-wingers do it?" or "I am a hypocritical piece of shit"

Your call.

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Of course blocking traffic is bad no matter who does it. And in your attempt of a gotcha you whatabout bumped a 4 year old thread with no one even discussing blocking traffic as being a big thing. You live a pathetic life :lol

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Originally Posted by TSA

Of course blocking traffic is bad no matter who does it. And in your attempt of a gotcha you whatabout bumped a 4 year old thread with no one even discussing blocking traffic as being a big thing. You live a pathetic life :lol

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pizza and Q

Speaking of pathetic lives...imagine following someone around everyday constantly quoting them begging for attention even though they haven't responded to you in a year and doing it thousands of times :lmao

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Originally Posted by TSA

Speaking of pathetic lives...imagine following someone around everyday constantly quoting them begging for attention even though they haven't responded to you in a year and doing it thousands of times :lmao

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It's fun because I can tell it gets to you when you have to write passive-aggressive bitch posts about it.:lmao

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Originally Posted by TSA

Of course blocking traffic is bad no matter who does it. And in your attempt of a gotcha you whatabout bumped a 4 year old thread with no one even discussing blocking traffic as being a big thing. You live a pathetic life :lol

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Yay. You are not a hypocritical piece of shit.











in this case.