Tim GOAT Duncan

...deserves more respect from his coach, IMO... We all know he's on his last legs, and it's tough to do anything out there for him, but I just can't believe he'd be worse than West, especially rebounding the ball.

I know he had a lot of fouls tonight, but he could've closed the game.

And really, he earned being out there and going up or down with the ship. He's been the foundation to 5 championships (6 if Pop doesn't sit him down, tbh), and it's just maddening to see him sitting in the bench late in the 4th, especially on the road, a place where he's always been stoic.

Nobody wants to see Tim struggling, but at the same time, our other options are ridiculously undersized and getting killed on the boards. Hopefully Pop changes his mind in the next few games, and we get Tim to close game, for good or bad.

you play tim until he fouls out. West keeps giving up second chances, you bring in boban.

These playoffs are not for Timmy.

:pop:

What's even more maddening is that you know Timmy is a good guy, he'll never question Pop or pull a Kobe and demand being there...

Agree, fuck popo

Yeah, i was screaming to get him on the game when the bigs couldnt grab a single defensive rebound. Spurs just need to figure out a way to navigate their offense with having a huge offensive liabilities.

Diaw was worse than West, he couldn't do a thing on defense & was a net negative. (1 defensive rebound in 21 minutes:rolleyes)

Tim is in legacy mode. He's not part of the solution and this isn't the time for nostalgic gestures by the coach. I don't think Tim would appreciate it and Pop isn't that shallow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Yeah, i was screaming to get him on the game when the bigs couldnt grab a single defensive rebound. Spurs just need to figure out a way to navigate their offense with having a huge offensive liabilities.

---

There is no way Pop should be playing Diaw/West against Adams/Kanter even if the Spurs have to play 4-on-5 on offense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

Tim is in legacy mode. He's not part of the solution and this isn't the time for nostalgic gestures by the coach. I don't think Tim would appreciate it and Pop isn't that shallow.

---

shut up :cry give me my Timmy :cry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

Tim is in legacy mode. He's not part of the solution and this isn't the time for nostalgic gestures by the coach. I don't think Tim would appreciate it and Pop isn't that shallow.

---

Pop didn't bench Manu in the 2013 Finals when he was playing for the Heat nor Tony last season when he was a dead-weight. He actually had Diaw ('13) & Patty/CoJo('15) unlike this season where Diaw/West are a disastrous tandem.

I'm with you on this one.... We cant win without Timmy. I feel he just sets the defensive tone. Rebounding, blocks, etc. Insert him when the lead is within 5 or something. Pop keeps the midget lineups out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

There is no way Pop should be playing Diaw/West against Adams/Kanter even if the Spurs have to play 4-on-5 on offense.

---

I guess the rationale to Pops decision is that a less efficient offense will lead to easy transition points.

Duncan looks horrible, but ya, if the difference is negligible(which is the case, re: Duncan vs. West/Diaw), I'd rather have Tim out there..

All the bigs outside of Homedridge are unplayable in this series, though..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

There is no way Pop should be playing Diaw/West against Adams/Kanter even if the Spurs have to play 4-on-5 on offense.

---

This is a stupid sin, a bad one, a really bad one, but what is even dumberer than that is when they're in and Kawhi isn't on the floor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

I guess the rationale to Pops decision is that a less efficient offense will lead to easy transition points.

---

That didn't happen in the 1st half when Tim was in the lineup.:wakeup

As bad as Timmy has looked out there, he should be playing in the fourth. No excuses.

Don't understand the West hate.
Played very good.
Forced to play as the tallest Spur on the court, paired often with Diaw. :downspin::pop:

No Boban? That is b.s, tbh

I agree. His obsession with playing up his "get over yourself" shtick and blatant lack of respect for Duncan and Ginobili is appalling.

Sure, Duncan is struggling, but so is West and even in this state, Duncan still has a better chance to keep Adams/Kanter off the glass. He's also got an almost unparalleled history of coming up big when it's needed.

As for Ginobili, to close the third, he was about to run high pick and roll and instead timeout is called so the best play maker on the team can be removed and Mr. Tunnel Vision can come in to do it, because they need to continue to pretend he's a stereotypical perimeter superstar.

Tim getting in foul trouble triggered more minutes for Diaw, but having D west ending with 5 fouls.
Maybe Pop could have paired Diaw with TD to start the 4th, or saved TD to close it out? I definitely thought we needed some TD back in the 4th.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MultiTroll

Don't understand the West hate.
Played very good.
Forced to play as the tallest Spur on the court, paired often with Diaw. :downspin::pop:

No Boban? That is b.s, tbh

---

I don't hate West, he's just terribly undersized for this series, and a Duncan in one leg, I feel, is way more valuable out there than him.

Reminds me when Pop benched Bowen in the playoff similar to how tim is getting treated and the spurs got hosed in the first 5 games. Pop then started playing bowen a little bit more but it was too little to late.

We might be seeing the same scenario. The thunder have a great chance of winning this series now if they can win the next one.

Game 5 is going to all sorts of crazy. :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Pop didn't bench Manu in the 2013 Finals when he was playing for the Heat nor Tony last season when he was a dead-weight. He actually had Diaw ('13) & Patty/CoJo('15) unlike this season where Diaw/West are a disastrous tandem.

---

Manu was just in a slump. So was Tony. Neither were ready to retire. Tim is done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Reminds me when Pop benched Bowen in the playoff similar to how tim is getting treated and the spurs got hosed in the first 5 games. Pop then started playing bowen a little bit more but it was too little to late.

We might be seeing the same scenario. The thunder have a great chance of winning this series now if they can win the next one.

Game 5 is going to all sorts of crazy. :lol

---

So we lost the first 5 games of the playoffs and weren't done? Was this in the NBA?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MultiTroll

Don't understand the West hate.
Played very good.
Forced to play as the tallest Spur on the court, paired often with Diaw. :downspin::pop:

No Boban? That is b.s, tbh

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

I don't hate West, he's just terribly undersized for this series, and a Duncan in one leg, I feel, is way more valuable out there than him.

---

My biggest issue with West are the boneheaded plays like the foul on Westbrook 92 feet from the basket on the inbounds, and the stupid front facing block out on Adams late that let Adams get the offensive board on the missed free throw. He does two or three idiotic unnecessary things every game.

Sad thing is Tim won't get enough credit for building this franchise because of the same overrated coach and his supposed "system"

Casuals think PATFO have always supplied Tim with deep rosters :lol fucking shame, really.

Tim > West in this series. Either Tim or LMA has to be on the floor at all times, otherwise we'll get destroyed on the boards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

Manu was just in a slump. So was Tony. Neither were ready to retire. Tim is done.

---

They were in an epic slump that they might as well have retired on the spot.:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TDfan2007

Tim > West in this series. Either Tim or LMA has to be on the floor at all times, otherwise we'll get destroyed on the boards.

---

If Pop starts Diaw or even West (he started Bonner in 2014) then you know he means business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Sad thing is Tim won't get enough credit for building this franchise because of the same overrated coach and his supposed "system"

Casuals think PATFO have always supplied Tim with deep rosters :lol fucking shame, really.

---

:lol 2001-02 spurs roster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

They were in an epic slump that they might as well have retired on the spot.:lol

---

Yeah being pithy makes your other take more meaningful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcadian

:lol 2001-02 spurs roster

---

2003-2004 :lmao

6-7	185	June 14, 1971	7	California State University, Fullerton
23	Devin Brown	SG	6-5	220	December 30, 1978	1	University of Texas at San Antonio
3	Matt Carroll	SG	6-6	212	August 28, 1980	R	University of Notre Dame
7	Anthony Carter	PG	6-1	190	June 16, 1975	4	University of Hawaii
21	Tim Duncan	PF	6-11	250	April 25, 1976	6	Wake Forest University
10	Alex Garcia	SG	6-3	220	March 4, 1980	R
20	Manu Ginobili	SG	6-6	205	July 28, 1977	1
1	Jason Hart	PG	6-3	185	April 29, 1978	2	Syracuse University
No.	Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	Exp	College
11	Shane Heal	PG	6-0	180	September 6, 1970	1
5	Robert Horry	PF	6-9	220	August 25, 1970	11	University of Alabama
33	Ron Mercer	SG	6-7	210	May 18, 1976	6	University of Kentucky
8	Rasho Nesterovic	C	7-0	248	May 30, 1976	5
9	Tony Parker	PG	6-2	185	May 17, 1982	2
31	Malik Rose	PF	6-7	250	November 23, 1974	7	Drexel University
14	Hedo Turkoglu	SF	6-10	220	March 19, 1979	3
17	Charlie Ward	PG	6-2	190	October 12, 1970	9	Florida State University
42	Kevin Willis	C	7-0	220	September 6, 1962

Seeng Tim go out like this hurts.

Tim is an offensive liability in this series. The Thunder bigs are leaving him alone in the paint to play help defense on the perimeter players, knowing he can't capitalize on it.

At least West is a threat to hit a mid-range jumper every once in a while.

Let's not kid ourselves.

Tim will be an offensive liability for the remainder of the playoffs. He is also a defensive liability because he can't jump or move. This was the series that he was expected to be useful and important. It hasn't happened. He's the GOAT - no doubt, but an untimely and unforeseen breakdown of his other knee has stripped him of what little he had left. -- True to form for both Tim and the organization, talk of his injured knees seems to be off limits to the press and his teammates. No one's talking about it but the man is seriously hobbled and giving what little he has left. When he starts to become a problem on the court, Pop is yanking him out and quite possibly saving him from himself. Similar to a corner man telling his boxer that he's going to do what's right for him and stop the fight if he sees him getting clobbered.

I felt confident that a 2015 Tim, Kawhi Leonard and LMA would be enough for the Spurs to win a Championship this year. I have serious doubts now. Tim is worse than TP was last year and its extremely sad to see. I think everyone on the team is aware of it too. If Tim can't give more than he has and Danny Green / Patty Mills keep playing like shit, we don't have a chance. No matter how good your defense is, you still have to score points to win and without Tim, we are lacking some serious firepower. TP's resurgence the last two games has been nice and he helped win Game 3, but counting on that sort of productivity consistently is unrealistic.

The identity of this team changed and it feels very uncomfortable. Tim, Tony and Manu were all vocal leaders and took ownership on the floor. Now its in the hands of Leonard and LMA to lead the team and it feels awkward. There's no third player and the bench seems to lack an identity too.

Man, 2014 seems like an eternity ago.

OKC sucks balls and to see them win twice against the Spurs is sickening. I still expect the Spurs to win this series but it may be all for nothing. Golden State looks better - even without Curry. To make matters worse, Cleveland has found its groove and will cakewalk to Finals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcadian

:lol 2001-02 spurs roster

---

He carried that crap roster to 58 wins and lead LA in all 5 games going in to the 4th. What other player could do that???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Budkin

Seeng Tim go out like this hurts.

---

Boy does it :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmtcsc

Let's not kid ourselves.

Tim will be an offensive liability for the remainder of the playoffs. He is also a defensive liability because he can't jump or move. This was the series that he was expected to be useful and important. It hasn't happened. He's the GOAT - no doubt, but an untimely and unforeseen breakdown of his other knee has stripped him of what little he had left. -- True to form for both Tim and the organization, talk of his injured knees seems to be off limits to the press and his teammates. No one's talking about it but the man is seriously hobbled and giving what little he has left. When he starts to become a problem on the court, Pop is yanking him out and quite possibly saving him from himself. Similar to a corner man telling his boxer that he's going to do what's right for him and stop the fight if he sees him getting clobbered.

I felt confident that a 2015 Tim, Kawhi Leonard and LMA would be enough for the Spurs to win a Championship this year. I have serious doubts now. Tim is worse than TP was last year and its extremely sad to see. I think everyone on the team is aware of it too. If Tim can't give more than he has and Danny Green / Patty Mills keep playing like shit, we don't have a chance. No matter how good your defense is, you still have to score points to win and without Tim, we are lacking some serious firepower. TP's resurgence the last two games has been nice and he helped win Game 3, but counting on that sort of productivity consistently is unrealistic.

The identity of this team changed and it feels very uncomfortable. Tim, Tony and Manu were all vocal leaders and took ownership on the floor. Now its in the hands of Leonard and LMA to lead the team and it feels awkward. There's no third player and the bench seems to lack an identity too.

Man, 2014 seems like an eternity ago.

OKC sucks balls and to see them win twice against the Spurs is sickening. I still expect the Spurs to win this series but it may be all for nothing. Golden State looks better - even without Curry. To make matters worse, Cleveland has found its groove and will cakewalk to Finals.

---

Very well reasoned and you articulated it better than I could have.

It truly hurts to see my favorite athlete of all time go out like this, I truly hope Duncan retires after this season, because the wheels have truly fallen off. He just is too old and seasoned now. I just hope he gets the recognition he deserves, but the fact remains, Duncan will retire after this season and he will not go out a champion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmtcsc

OKC sucks balls and to see them win twice against the Spurs is sickening. I still expect the Spurs to win this series but it may be all for nothing. Golden State looks better - even without Curry. To make matters worse, Cleveland has found its groove and will cakewalk to Finals.

---

If Tim has to be out of the rotation then the Spurs are done b/c there will be ZERO rim protection. They will essentially turn into a deeper version of the 2014 Blazers. If LMA was a decent rim protector like Pau & if Diaw could rebound like Odom then they could have been like the 2008 Lakers who went to the Finals w/o Bynum/Ariza.

If Curry is healthy, the Spurs are probably going to get punked by the Duds like the Lakers got punked by the Celtics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spurs21Fan4Ever

It truly hurts to see my favorite athlete of all time go out like this, I truly hope Duncan retires after this season, because the wheels have truly fallen off. He just is too old and seasoned now. I just hope he gets the recognition he deserves, but the fact remains, Duncan will retire after this season and he will not go out a champion.

---

At least he will retire w/ dignity unlike Malone/Hakeem/Ewing/Barkley/Shaq...etc. I think he also needs just 5 wins for the most all-time postseason wins.

Either more Timmy or it's about time to go small with Kawhi at the 4.

This David West show is getting ridiculous.

He is just not a Spurs-winner, maybe the opposite, and we cannot depend on him like this.

I sort of guess my question is what happened exactly with the mid to late year knee injury. We know it happened he sat a few games and came back looking poorly. Since then he has been notably hobbled but no one really said anything about it and you have to wonder since Tim was playing moderately well on offense and very well as the defensive leader.what exactly happened.

If it was going to be this big of a deal it should have brought to the attention of the world. I also have to wonder if he would have sat after that would it have fully healed or if he just coming back knowing that he was playing out basically his last season.

where is the Spurs announcement that Tim injured his good knee?

and how does allow him to play but miss layups?

Tim definitely knows how to rebound the ball and box out well. The thing West does better at this point is finish in the paint and doesn't go up soft. it's so frustrating to see Duncan get stripped/blocked so easily cause the way he tries to finish out there.

It's tough... I mean we won 2 games already so we don't need to re-invent the wheel too much. Duncan should probably play a few more minutes than he has, but I think he should play with West more with the 2nd unit. Have Diaw play with the starters, cause our wings in the starting unit rebound the ball much better than our wings off the bench

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmtcsc

Let's not kid ourselves.

Tim will be an offensive liability for the remainder of the playoffs. He is also a defensive liability because he can't jump or move. This was the series that he was expected to be useful and important. It hasn't happened. He's the GOAT - no doubt, but an untimely and unforeseen breakdown of his other knee has stripped him of what little he had left. -- True to form for both Tim and the organization, talk of his injured knees seems to be off limits to the press and his teammates. No one's talking about it but the man is seriously hobbled and giving what little he has left. When he starts to become a problem on the court, Pop is yanking him out and quite possibly saving him from himself. Similar to a corner man telling his boxer that he's going to do what's right for him and stop the fight if he sees him getting clobbered.

---

Is this educated speculation or is has the been discussed in the radio waves down there in SA?

I mean it's perfectly logical and actually makes me feel better about how his role has completely diminished in these last two games.

Remember when some of us were worried that the Spurs were short of Center type big men?
Remember when we all loved West for leaving money to play for the Spurs, but Spurs actually needed another rim protecting big more?

Oh yeah.. welcome to the mustache brothers show.

That said, I think Timmy should have been in the game. At least he seems more effective denying the offensive rebound and banging with Adams/Kanter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spurs1990

Is this educated speculation or is has the been discussed in the radio waves down there in SA?

I mean it's perfectly logical and actually makes me feel better about how his role has completely diminished in these last two games.

---

It's more educated speculation because they just aren't talking about it down here. One local sports anchor (Don Harris) mentioned that he thought Tim looked out of shape a few weeks ago. TD picking up 4 fouls in one half is very uncharacteristic of him. Perhaps Pop thought Tim's rotations were too slow and leading him to grab or hack or whatever. I'm not sure.

Aldridge was poor on defense last night. He was slow on his close outs and so was Diaw. Diaw was really bad. He looked like a spectator on a couple of possessions - especially when Kanter made his 3 from the corner.

I was disappointed in West's game initially but he was put in a tough position. One time he was switched out on Durant. That's a recipe for disaster for any big. He also played the entire 4th quarter. He's no spring chicken and was probably winded.

Danny Green was horrible. I don't care what the circumstances are, your starting shooting guard can't post 0 points and 5 fouls. He had 5 rebounds and a couple of steals but that doesn't make up for his poor offense.

In all, if you look at the box score -

OKC won the Rebound category: 40-34
OKC won the FT line battle: 22 makes to SA's 15.
OKC shot 50 % to Spurs' 47%.
OKC had 23 assists to Spurs' 12.

As lopsided as all of those stats are, the game was in the Spurs' control until the 4th.

Waiters and Adams gave the Thunder unexpected offense and Durant got hot in the final quarter. Spurs' bigs got their assess handed to them in the hustle category by Adams. 16 pts? Come on man. Looked like the Spurs got happy with the split and packed it in early. That was extremely disappointing. I don't mind the Spurs losing in the playoffs but NOT when they underachieve. That sucks to watch. Game 5 will be very revealing about the team's resolve.

Just posted this in another topic, but if you look at some of Duncan's numbers before/after he missed time this season with the knee injury, it definitely seems to back up the theory that it's the main factor in his decline.

Pre-knee injury (36 games, 26.1 mpg): 56.4 TS%
Post-knee injury (24 games, 23.4 mpg): 48.5 TS%

For the first half of the season, he was playing about where he was at last year. Obviously scoring less with the addition of LMA, but he was still a threat in the PnR and could finish at the rim. Since the knee injury, his offense has practically been non-existent. I also agree with whoever mentioned that the media won't talk about it for whatever reason. It's annoying because some people are acting like he's just an old POS (well to be fair, he is old :lol ) who fell off, but I absolutely think his right knee is still fucked up and he's just playing through it.

As for whether he should play more this series...when OKC goes big, yes. Either play Duncan or play Boban; letting OKC just slaughter us on the boards isn't a good option. OKC is hard enough to stop already with KD/Westbrook; give them 2 opportunities every time and it only gets that much tougher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpursFan86

As for whether he should play more this series...when OKC goes big, yes. Either play Duncan or play Boban; letting OKC just slaughter us on the boards isn't a good option. OKC is hard enough to stop already with KD/Westbrook; give them 2 opportunities every time and it only gets that much tougher.

---

If you look at the 1st rd West couldn't even guard JaMychal Green while Tim was holding his own against Z-Bo. Low key, I wish David West never opt-ed out & stayed in Indy so PATFO could have signed a backup center like Cole Aldrich.:lol (Boozer might have been a better fit)

Even with Tim being deadweight on offense, he's still good for 7-10 rebounds. Pop is really outdoing himself these playoffs.