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Title is self explanatory
Yeah, printezis and a future second
2nd round picks? Sure
No. Don't let the RealGMers twist this.
:lol OP
Rubio :lol
Hmmmm Probably not. I hope Dejonte grows. He already doesn't have a shot but being 19 at least he's not hopeless.
For the same reason, I wasn't on the MCW train that K-Storm and Oz wanted for us.
If the Timberwolves are willing to give the Spurs 2 picks and rubio for diaw and mills i'll take it.
I know people hate Rubio, but I would definitely want him over Conley. He would make SA's defense much better and I don't think the offense would suffer one bit. For the cost, would definitely rather him over Conley's Max as well.
Not sure what I would want SA to pay for him, but in a bubble, I would prefer him over Conley although neither seem likely.
Yes this team needs more broken shots. :lmao
5 years in the league and still has a broken ass shot. Never shot over 40%FG in his entire career and shoots 31% from deep.
I think Diaw's non guaranteed contract and Mills might be too much for him. You can't play as a liability on offense like him in today's NBA. No wonder Minnesota wants to trade his ass even though he is still 25 y/o.
If it's a Diaw for Rubio swap then yeah. Diaw wasn't any better than Rubio last season..
Mills, Diaw + 2 picks for Rubio?
https://media.giphy.com/media/lT4sgCJwC7B4c/giphy.gif
I love his game. I really do. However when looking at those percentages he shot around 38% last year. Remember how we burn Parker for missing jumpers? Well Tony shot at 49%.
Rubio salary is around 14 mil, same as Parker, and last an extra year. Diaw is around 7 mil, so you cannot do the swap. And wouldn't you rather try and get a guy on a 7mil contract along with Diaw than just Rubio?Quote:
Originally Posted by look_at_g_shred
However in another thread here, I mentioned I want Dieng, who would be our starting center, and can play the 4 with our slower centers, TD and Bobon. I proposed a salary dump situation where its Parker and Green for Rubio and Dieng. This would only be possible if we need space for Durant. Another option is Green for Dieng to create 7 mil in space.
Uh....no.
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I like Rubio and I'd prefer him over maxed out Conley. He has graded 2nd in PGs in DRPM ( one of most accurate tools to quantify individual defense). He also gives the Spurs what they desperately need off the bench -- which is great play-making.
He'd be a great fit and could replace TP in starting line-up if Tony continues to regress. Another positive I like is he's only 25 years old with still room to grow.
Sign me up for a Diaw/Mills + Simmons or a 1st for Rubio.
Defense wasn't the problem last year. Offense was. Adding a PG who can't shoot from anywhere - on the drive, pullups, from deep - is not the answer. He's not only a sub-40% shooter overall, but has never crossed 40% from two. That's a PASS. Especially one who makes $15 million per year for three more years.
He barely scrapes 50% in the restricted area, and hits less than a quarter of his shots from 3-16 feet. Shoots best from the midrange (have enough of that already) and as others have noted is a low-30s guy from three.
Yes, he puts up nice assist numbers. He also turns the ball over a ton. 1.9 ast-TO ratio to Parker's 2.4.
I don't put a lot of stock into the dRPM as he was more or less backed up by one of the worst defensive PG in the league in Levine (113 dRTG in two years in the league).
Good call. The forum needs to just say "NO" to non-shooters like Rubio and MCW and move on permanently.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldStandard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cklbmk
I would give up two pricks to turn Diaw and Mills into Rubio - especially if they were Apo and Dabom.
The past 3 years Rubio was 2nd/1st/2nd in the NBA in Defensive RPM which is the best tool the smartest NBA heads use to quantify individual defense ( it's not the same as DBRPM) and he's matched up vs. starters the past 3 years. His consistency at the top the past 3 years should give any person with half a brain some clarify on his defense. Tony ranked 33rd in DRPM last yr vs. starters and 76th (lol) the previous year. Mills ranked 25th in DRPM last year matching up vs. back ups (which is terrible too).Quote:
Originally Posted by cjw
Also, Spurs desperately need another play-maker on the wing -- Rubio is a better creator than Mills by a long shot. While he's not the best shooter, I don't think its far-fetched to believe it can improve under Chip.
Another thing he has going for him is his age, being only 25-- Rubio still has room for growth.
Considering the alternatives in FA, give me some Rubio. Spurs have to find a way to improve their PG spot. I'm tired of the Spurs having 48 minutes of liabilities on the defensive end at the point guard position.
Definitely. Rubio is 25 (Kawhi's age), athletic, great defensive PG and solid offensive PG (because he lacks shooting). Everything else he does on an elite level. This free agent PG class is weak so people need to be realistic. Also, people want the Spurs to develop talent (I think Dejounte will be great but he needs 2 years minimum to have any impact on the game) but that takes time and what they have on PG position isn't enough for GSW, OKC and CLE right now. Rubio can at least defend elite PG's and run a decent offense. His team doesn't want him and doesn't understand his strengths.
Diaw is fat and doesn't care.
Mills is a 5'10 shooting guard.
So, do it RC.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Mills and Diaw for Rubio maybe but not with any picks attached. He is an excellent player maker and defender but struggles to finish at the rim and from 3 but is about average as a mid range shooter. during the 13-14 season he hit 40% of his mid range jumpers which accounted for 45% of his shots.
the bigger question would be fit, and whether he would start or come off the bench.
I think Rubio works great if we get Durant. Simply having a pass first pg run the show and spread the love would be a better option than Parker. Plus Rubio is a great defender. People need to realise that if Rubio could shoot, he would be a star.
That's how bad Parker is that we are willing to entertain just about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...speaks-volumes
Quote:
It has become harder to play a non-shooter, and, holy hell, is Rubio a non-shooter. He has never approached 40 percent overall, or even cracked 50 percent on shots within three feet of the basket. His jumper looks smoother after years of work with shooting experts, but he's still shooting just 30 percent from deep and 38 percent on long 2s. And those long 2s are Rajon Rondo shots -- wide-open looks defenses happily concede. Even if you hit them at a 40 percent clip, that still yields a lower points per possession figure than a functional half-court offense.
Quote:
You can't blame Minnesota for being unsure that Rubio is the right point guard for its young core. But that's what makes this hypothetical swap so fascinating: there is something about Rubio that works in the NBA, even with all the indicators blaring that he should be a hugely damaging offensive player. And this goes beyond defense, where he's among the very best at his position -- a long, tough steals machine with a Ginobili-esque sense of when to sneak away from his man and lunge for steals. He and Manu should form a bank-robbing duo after Rubio retires.
The Wolves have been better on the court every year of Rubio's career, sometimes dramatically so, and more efficient on offense in every season but his rookie campaign, per NBA.com. They even did fine when Rubio played without Kevin Love on the floor.
Interesting read on Rubio from Lowe. Posted just a small amount of the interesting parts.Quote:
There is a ton of noise in those numbers, obviously. The quality gap between Minnesota's starters and reserves during Rubio's time, and especially between Rubio and his primary backup in the past two years, probably inflates them. Other stats, including ESPN.com's adjusted plus-minus, paint him as something like an average point guard on offense, though he's even doing well there this season.
But Rubio does something on offense that defies expectations. It's rote to say he's a genius passer, but the dude is a genius freaking passer. There are lots of team executives who still believe in Rubio's ability to lift a team to higher places; he might have more trade value than you'd think, especially since he's on a team-friendly deal through 2018-19.
"We win games when I'm out there," Rubio told me in the fall. "I've just got to stay healthy."
Thanks for sharing that was interesting. There are so few true passers in a league that has too many SG forced to play the point bc of their size. I once read that OF are not trained they are born that way. They just have a knack for finding players in scoring positions that makes an offense rubs smoothly. When you see guys like that you know! Yea if he could shoot he would be Chris Paul who is a star. Another nonshooter who can pass is Rondo. He's been cancerous but his talent was undeniable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
The problem is how many times have we seen Rubio make the playoffs? He's been the best PG in his team, but not good enough to make the playoffs bc he's such a bad shooter. That picture didn't end well for Dallas and we would be headed to a similar situation. In the playoffs guys like that are forced to beat the other team by the jump shot and they need the ball. They almost already help off Tony anyways and Tony is at least streaky shooting the 3.
It's a big issue to have a PG who is a very inefficient scorer, specially when we are already getting almost nothing from our backcourt some nights. It's a real question that hasn't been answered if you can win a championship with a PG who can't score. I would say no you can't.
^ Don't exactly agree. We have seen teams win championships without a scoring PG. 03 Spurs with Parker and Speedy. Celtics with Rondo. Fisher and Harper and the Lakers. Charmers and the Heat. Kidd and the Mavs. Garry Payton and the Heat. We can even go back to Ron Harper and the Bulls. And other teams who got the finals but lost, Marc Jackson and the Pacers, Eric Snow and the 79ers, and Kidd and the Nets.
Although some of them developed knock down open 3 pnt shooters, especially later in their career like Fisher, Kidd, Harper, and to a lesser extent Charmers, I am convince enough to say that Payton, young Kidd, Snow, Parker/Speedy, and Jackson were never knock down shooters.
Never underestimate good passing pg's. You have to have the personal around them, but they can make good teams great teams, but rarely average teams good teams.
Yes but those teams had supreme talent. The Celtics had 3 elite players and two were knockdown shooters. Only in a system like that was Rondo able to have success. They require a very specific situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbdog
Anyways my knowledge of that time is limited. Parker has not been a shooter but he's always been a scorer. The most limited like Fisher and Chalmers at least could shoot the 3 and were compliments to other talent, they spotted up a lot. When Chalmers couldn't buy a 3 in the 2014 Miami lost. In 2013 him getting hot at the right time helped LeBron's case for a championship.
We probably lose that game 5 in 2014 at home if Mills doesn't get hot from 3 and ppl blast Tony statpadding at the end, but they forget that Kawhi fouled out of game 5. The fact Miami couldn't get a stop bc of the avalanche from the guards broke their spirit. LeBron took a rest and never got back into the game after that.
I think it is a very big deal. I do like many other things from Rubio. I think he is a special player in areas that are not flashy and underrated, but I have doubts with winning with a guy like that. They need a specific situation and system to be valuable. If you want the ball in someone else's hand they don't help you win games. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason Thibs is shopping him.
Like I said he's never made the playoffs.
Uncertain if I would give up Parker for Rubio...
$15,000,000 vs. $4,700,000?Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
i know, but it's rubio
Those PGs weren't making $15 million a year. The Wolves are in an enviable position because several guys are on rookie deals, but he would clog up any flexibility the Spurs have.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbdog
This isn't a problem of a broken shot. He's just a crappy offensive player outside of his passing ability. Chip isn't going to fix his inability to hit at the rim or on floaters.
I agree with some aspects, like you need to have players around a player like Rubio to compliment him. He cannot be a scorer, ever. And although Parker avg about 15points a game on 03, in the finals he was awful (apparently sick), and shot pretty ordinary. There is no doubt that Rondo benefited from the PGA tour, but the Spurs or any team mind you, isn't winning unless our best players (LMA&Leonard) are not hitting on all cylinders when it counts. And although Charmers, fisher, harper had to hit their 3's, deep runs were made by Snow, Marc Jackson, and Gary Payton in the Heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
But consider this, if the Spurs get Durant, and you have 3 scorers all with different skill sets, do you really want Parker running the show or a elite passer like Rubio?
i honestly feel that you can get any college pg to assist to the three listed above. I know I could, and id do it for vet min. 10 apg from me easyQuote:
Originally Posted by tbdog
Rubio's salary for this coming season is $13.4 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursforSix
Pass first players like Rubio, Rondo, and Kyle Anderson are cancers. They have no other option but pass because they can't score for shit. If anyone thinks having a 37fg% career player is the key to 6, you're better off posting on Reddit or something.
Faggot also has a huge ego and made the Minny front office decide between him and Love. Fuck him he's trash
you don't understand kyles game at allQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
He's a fucking scrub. Good luck convincing yourself he can be a scorer if he wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by K...
ha, doesn't work that way. And even if you could somewhat break down a defense on a drive and kick, or could shoot 35-40% on pull ups and floaters, and low 30% of the 3 point line, and you could find passing lanes that only few good points guards can, there is no way you could defend like Rubio does.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
I am not proposing a Parker for Rubio trade (although as we transition into a younger team it isn't a far stretch to consider), but if Durant comes, and for the record I am only saying this; IF Durant comes, we are going to have to salary dump Parker or Green, but most likely Green as. 1. There will be too much depth on the wing due to Leonard and Durant. 2. We still have a hole at the pg position if we lose Parker. 3. We are not getting a cheap alternative to replace parker. Conley will cost 20mil, and Dellavedova is costing about 10mil. Rubio feels like his right in-between those two.
Anyway, I propose earlier that Spurs dump Green for Dieng, and trade Parker for Rubio, which should create about 7 million in space to afford to sign Durant and gaining a starting center.
The thought of opposing coaches game-planning against Rubio in the playoffs is terrifying, tbh..
Sure, but even w/ TP who was a liability on both ends, SA could have beaten OKC. Just getting a marginal improvement on offense (Rubio's passing) and a solid improvement on team defense (already a beast defense) may be enough. It's obviously no slam dunk; for the reasons many have mentioned Rubio has flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
However, I can't think of many other players that might be attainable, that are still young and that might be able to help if things break right without having to massively over pay for 4 more years.
^ As Parker ages, his legs get older, his shot doesn't fall, and teams will continue to attack him and Mills. Rubio is 9 years younger.
^ You all have good points. It's interesting to discuss. We could actually get much better just with Durant and Dieng.
In a scenario like that Rubio could work our just fine. The playoffs are another beast though. Pop probably will have someone else to close out games I imagine, which in this alternate universe we are talking about could be Mills for his shot or someone unknown yet to be designated.
In a not so alternative universe Tony is not getting traded for Rubio.
Cacho Rubio, right?
Agreed......Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
would much prefer to swap parker for him.
spurstalk would love rubio.
his knock is he can't shoot? well we have the best shooting coach in the league. and we wouldn't need him to take shots, he could find kawhi/lma and get us easy buckets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmtcsc
Didn't we just draft a kid who doesn't have a jumper and is turnover prone? Seems like it would be redundant.
No.. his contract is worse then Parker's.
rubio... gives you a great statline one night, plays awful 2 other nights in the week.
Not really a Rubio fan.
If we are looking for PG's who make under $15M to add to the roster as opposed to signing Conley for the max....I'd prefer we go after Brandon Knight. He shoots well enough to play off the ball and he is athletic enough to work in the lane. Phoenix is shopping he and/Bledsoe and Knight is a better fit here.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I'd rather take a flyer on J Clarskon, Jennings, or Augiston over Rubio... Heck, I would even go Rondo over Rubio lol!
As others have said, Rubio isn't just a "bad shooter", he's the worst shooting guard of all-time:lol
Didn't know that. Would rather keep Parker and hope for career ending injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/0c/0cffc...feffa50b59.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursforSix
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/64044699.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Keepin' it real
I work with a lot of Timberwolve fans and they all want the wolves to trade Rubio.
They must have never heard of RealGM. Those guys are adamant that Rubio was worth a ton.Quote:
Originally Posted by TXstbobcat
I want to clarify my stance: I'm not all-in for Rubio or anything. He's very flawed, but I think people really over value shooting & under value defense/rebounding. Rubio for me is in context of Conley. I would rather have Rubio who's younger and that has 2 legit skills (passing/defense) than max level Conley.
I know Rubio is really bad at shooting, but I do think that SA can have enough shooters on a roster to over come that especially if SA has the best defense in the league with Rubio/Danny/Kawhi/LMA.
I'd take Rubio at his contract over Conley at the max. But I'm not moving two picks to make that happen. I really think the idea of getting a non-scoring guard just doesn't make sense if the team is spending big money on that player. They need points. I'd rather move a second-rounder for Lou Williams than the same for Rubio, especially in the context of the current roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Oh I agree, to most teams but especially SA, he's not worth giving up picks for. I think having either TP or Rubio for the bench now would be massive as long as SA lands shooting at other positions (especially the 4/5). I agree SA could use some points, but I can't get over how SA's offense was top 3 even with TP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
I know TP started off well, but he nose dived some in the 2nd half. The offense, while not smooth, still held strong enough. That was with Danny tanking most of the season, LMA adjusting (though he improved every month) & getting nothing from Tim.
I think that Rubio (assuming he starts) could keep the offense the same level as TP had it with his passing and if SA landed a big that could shoot better than Tim + shooters off the bench then SA could have an even better defense & the starting lineup offense that was 3rd in the league with TP could still be fine.
If England can fix Bruce Bowen's shot, he can fix Rubio's.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Lets not act like he's some 30 year old has been here
You mean Parker & Kawhis. Bowen was signed in 01' and he built his shot when he was with Miami. Chip didn't come til 05'.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Rubio can improve his shot, to what degree? Don't know, but it can only improve. Especially with him being only 25, and with the Spurs having Chip Engllend.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
One thing people are overlooking and not aware of is Rubio is an elite defensive PG. He's graded out 2nd/1st/2nd in DRPM for the past 3 years -- has great size, has a knack for creating turnovers and getting deflections. He also has lateral quickness to stay infront of his man.
Defense from the PG position has been a huge glaring weakness for the Spurs -- Parker graded out 33rd in DRPM last year and 76th the year before guarding the same starting PG's Rubio has guarded. Mills graded out 25th last year and that's pretty bad considering most of his minutes are up against back ups. This is where Rubio would be a huge upgrade, as Danny and Kawhi wouldn't have to work so damn hard on the defensive end chasing smaller guys around.
With that being said, Rubio would improve the defense drastically and improve play-making from the perimeter -- which they desperately need.
Considering the terrible alternatives in Free Agency, and the lack of valuable/expendable assets to get Jrue Holiday or better PG, Rubio is about as best Spurs can do to improve their PG play the next 2-3 years. And it's less of a risk than throwing the max at 28 yr old injury riddled Conley.
I'd imagine Minny wants Green right now from SA, but the smart thing for SA is to wait it out and let Rubios' value drop when Dunn/Levine eat into his minutes more and more during the year. By February, when Rubios value is lower because of his decreased production caused by decreased playing time, Minny should be more than happy to take Diaw/Mills/Anderson for Rubio as it would clear 29 mil in cap space for them the following 2 years.
RPM is adjusted for teammates. Patty is the better player already.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
It's a depressing day in San Antonio if all we can get for Diaw and Mills is the poorest poor man version of Manu on our team. :depressed
Haha - people use RPM to try to prove something without even knowing what it means. Like saying that Rubio played against starters while Levine played against reserves DESPITE THE FACT THAT RPM ADJUSTS FOR THAT!Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Intriguing question. If only he could finish OR shoot the 3 I'd say yes, but given that he can't do either, probably not. Great defender, visionary passer, but his inability to put the ball in the hole really limits him.
I like Manu4Tres' take: if you want to gamble that Chip can rehab his shot, try to grab him for cheap mid-season.
LOL. So funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursforSix
Big no. You just CAN'T have a guard in this day and age that cannot shoot on the floor playing big minutes. We're already in an era where ALL FIVE players on the floor are becoming capable of shooting. We've seen what having a guy on the floor that can't hit the open shot/three can do and its crippling. See Harrison Barnes. He is reason A-Z as to why GSW lost. He FEASTED on wide open looks the likes few have ever seen and he clanked damn near every one of them and it killed them. We need a capable shooter and finisher in the PG role.
DRPM is one of the best tools to quantify individual defense. There's a reason why Kawhi is top at SF, Dray top at PF, Bogut/Duncan top at C.Quote:
Originally Posted by cjw
There's also a reason Parker has graded out 33rd last year and 76th the year before.
Can we throw in Kyle for free?
This has to be some kind of joke. Rubio is one of the worst starters in the league.
if this means tony is gone..
..... i dont think Rubio is the answer, unless we get Durant, and swap him for Parker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle
If Chip could fix his shot, he would be the most valuable coach in the league. The T-Wolves have had numerous shooting coaches work with him. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, because I believe Chip is the best shooting coach in the game.
The incredible thing about Rubio is that he can create offense, and make all those incredible passes, even without being able to make the opposing defenses respect his shot. Think about that. Other great passers usually freeze defenders with their own offensive game, and THEN they punish them with great passes. Everybody in the arena knows that Rubio is not a great scoring threat, yet he is still able to put himself into position to deliver a strike to another player. When people talk about his passing genius, they really aren't exaggerating.
I wouldn't mind seeing him around to facilitate offense for the bench - especially in tough/close games. The biggest problem is that he would cost an awful lot just for that purpose.
Rubio is a garbage player. I wouldn't call him an upgrade over Mills. Pass.
Only on SpurstalkQuote:
Originally Posted by Splits
Trade Diaw,Anderson and rights to some overseas players but not Mills unless Bryn Forbes is fantastic during summer leauge .
Keep Mills and picks
By trading the two sloths we automatically are a quicker team.
Minnesota gave us Miller and Martin so why not take Rubio.