Woj:San Antonio's Tim Duncan exercises player option

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Originally Posted by raybies

Wow, so the sticks are already starting to fall. I'm not sure I want to make this bold prediction yet, but i've said previously that how ironic it would be for Murray to take Parker's spot, like Parker took Daniels' spot in '01. Both rookies, about the same age. We'll see. Next step is Murray playing Summer League and showing some improvement.

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If they can get everyone signed by then..

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Chinook - so let's assume a few things:

1. Tim either plays or retires but gets paid and not stretched (so his money counts this year against cap only is what I'm saying)

2. Boris (or anyone not traded)

3. Spurs simply waive Simmons and renounce all others that they can cap holds (the entire list)

Where does that leave the Spurs salary wise including roster charges?

My math has that at about 82M total salaries/roster charges? That would give SA 12M in cap space (roughly) and the following players:

LMA
Kawhi
Danny
Tim
TP
Boris
Kyle
Mills

But no: Simmons, Boban, Bonner, Manu, Miller, West, Martin, LJC, Milu or Murray.

Obviously doesn't seem likely, but sound accurate? If they can trade Boris, that gets them to about 19M in cap space still, but still having to replace all the players they renounced. Which we know they have talked about bringing in Bertans, keeping Boban, obviously brining back Manu, etc..

Seems like no cap space is the route.

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Yeah, you're right that the team would have $11,752,957 before trying to move Diaw. Obviously you keep Simmons in that case, as his salary is more useful as a trade piece and as cap space. But anyway, there are a lot of holes to fill going that route. Don't forget that being able to use the room exception would save some more money. In the very least, it would save Bertans' salary from counting against the cap.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Come on dude, why we fightin? I din't expect anything. Just pointing out that the series was actually pretty close even with the Spurs playing like crap and the Thunder playing out of their skins.

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The Spurs matchup w/ OKC b/c of Kawhi/Danny which was why I was saying I rather have the Spurs play OKC than the Cripples but that was under the assumption Tim wasn't shot & Pop didn't play the Turd Towers.:lol

The Spurs were the better team with a healthy Tim just like the Duds were the better team w/ a healthy Curry, the issue now is that Tim's knee is shot while Curry can just rehab & regain his form.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

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My prediction is that Duncan retires and Manu plays one more year.

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Originally Posted by T Park

None of this makes any sense at all to justify Carter-Williams.

Also, Plumlee sucks. Period. Sucks. Sucks so bad that he could barely get run with a shit team in Milwaukee.


He's a white Jeff Ayres.

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What about my MCW comments doesn't make sense? That he's long and athletic and still young enough to improve? That he's cheap enough for us to trade for without giving up much? Or don't you think the Spurs' development culture can improve young players?

I don't really care about Plumlee - he's just filler until 2017. But at least he can pnr and dunk the ball.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

...after Waiters shoved Manu who had stepped inbounds... :lmao

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Waiters shoved Manu AFTER Kawhi grabbed WestBrick to prevent him from getting the inbound pass almost causing a 5 second violation.

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Originally Posted by raybies

My prediction is that Duncan retires and Manu plays one more year.

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I think they're both back at this point. Duncan just doesn't seem like the type of person who will take millions to not play. If they are both back, then that second step in my post is much easier. You just keep Duncan, let Boban walk and re-sign Manu with the room exception. After that, you don't need to worry about a getting another two-guard until 2017, so there's no trade. Roster would look like this:


PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Manu, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Duncan (or flipped; I don't care), Lorbek (though Cady makes a lot more sense than before with the center rotation being older)

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Ya - this move with Tim/Boris is certainly a sign that SA does not believe they can get KD this year (maybe they think he won't leave until next year no matter what) or at all.

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It makes no sense for Durant to leave OKC this summer since every team has uncertainties:

-Duds: Curry's injury / dumping rotations players / Enemy #1

-Spurs: No bench / worst starting PG on a contender / geriatric center

.......the rest of the suitors would be significantly worse than OKC

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

What about my MCW comments doesn't make sense? That he's long and athletic and still young enough to improve? That he's cheap enough for us to trade for without giving up much? Or don't you think the Spurs' development culture can improve young players?

I don't really care about Plumlee - he's just filler until 2017. But at least he can pnr and dunk the ball.

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A Mills and Simmons for MCW and Plumlee trade could work salary-wise. But I think the bench would struggle to score.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

What about my MCW comments doesn't make sense? That he's long and athletic and still young enough to improve? That he's cheap enough for us to trade for without giving up much? Or don't you think the Spurs' development culture can improve young players?

I don't really care about Plumlee - he's just filler until 2017. But at least he can pnr and dunk the ball.

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If you want to Don Quioxte over a JAG. Whatever, but don't tell me he's the next Shawn Livingston.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

A Mills and Simmons for MCW and Plumlee trade could work salary-wise. But I think the bench would struggle to score.

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If RC did that trade I'd personally go to the Spurs offices to give RC a BAT.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

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:tu

Nice write up but it only makes me hope even more that Manu and Tim come back for another year. Green/Gordon/Simmons at SG and basically only Gasol/Boban at C are worrisome

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Waiters shoved Manu AFTER Kawhi grabbed WestBrick to prevent him from getting the inbound pass almost causing a 5 second violation.

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He didn't but hey, keep huffing that DuPont buddy

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Originally Posted by Chinook

A Mills and Simmons for MCW and Plumlee trade could work salary-wise. But I think the bench would struggle to score.

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I checked the trade machine - Mills for MCW and Plumlee works.

You may be right. I'm just fascinated to see what the Spurs could make out of MCW given what they did with TP's jumper, Danny's game, Kawhi, etc.

Sucks though, it makes you think, if the Spurs miss on any real solid FAs, they will be relying heavily on Leonard improving again, Green finding his stroke again, Anderson stepping up, and 3 rookies providing solid minutes off the bench :depressed

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

I checked the trade machine - Mills for MCW and Plumlee works.

You may be right. I'm just fascinated to see what the Spurs could make out of MCW given what they did with TP's jumper, Danny's game, Kawhi, etc.

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Those are last year's salaries. Plumlee is a free agent, and you have to factor in a decent raise for him.

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Originally Posted by T Park

He didn't but hey, keep huffing that DuPont buddy

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Video evidence says otherwise::lol



Kawhi is tugging on WestBrick's jersey in the backcourt at the start of the clip & he's hanging on for dear life in front of the ref as Waiters elbows Manu but the ref somehow missed BOTH plays.:lol

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Originally Posted by RD2191

Yeah, Matt Bonner will be our big free agent signing.

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:pop: He is well rested!

Really hope this means Duncan is actually playing next season, which would likely sway Manu's decision too. The Spurs will have some cap room to be creative in trades and would be able to bring back Boban and every stashed player they'd like. If they bring back Boban and Simmons and sign 3 rookies in Bertans, Murray and LJC there will be plenty of development talent to work with, especially if they leave the 15th spot open this time for another potention project. A lot of work for the coaches there.

They can then totally avoid the FA madness that's incoming and look to trade for a solid vet on an expiring, pay Manu and look forward to 2017. Obviously the meeting with Durant will be about next summer, not this one. They'd be a semi- contender, would still likely win 50 or so games and we'll get to watch Tim and Manu's last seasons, Kawhi's continued improvement and a lot of new players developing, with the eyes set on potentially a big splash next summer. I'm totally on board with this.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Tim is out there recruiting & I doubt he opts-in just to for the retirement money.:lol

I feel like PATFO are setting up for 2017 thus don't want any long term contracts on the book which means asking players to pick up their options & guaranteeing contracts for next season. Boban is the only player I could see walking since there is some dumb GM that's going to offer him 4yr/40 million.:lol (Roy Hibbert::wow)

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I hope you are right! I would much rather have Tim than not have him, specifically with the amount of rookies the Spurs will have. I hope we do pick up Milutinov so he can learn from Timmy and relieve him through the season so he can keep those knees healthy.

Like someone said above, I also don't see the Spurs treading Diaw or Mills. Again too many rookies and new players and Pop will be ever so reluctant with rookies. They will get ready this season to be the depth we will need in 2017.

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Originally Posted by T Park

The league is going small kiddo.

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D west cannot guard a single perimeter player.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

The point is that David West isn't nearly as bad as many people here make him out to be. He's still a solid big, especially on a minimum deal.

The problem is that pairing him with Diaw and expecting him to play center isn't a good strategy. But endlessly criticizing West for the Spurs putting him in that situation seems strange. And besides, like TPark said, West was solid all season long. He was shitty against OKC, but so was 3/4 of the team. Just seems weird to me how critical some people here are of West.

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Endlessly criticizing Spurs seems to be the focus on this board, but anyways, D west opted out. I don't think he will take another minimum deal to play back up center. It wasn't an ideal situation for neither player nor team. We already have PF covered with LMA/Diaw/LJC. So if he comes back there is no doubt he would be center again and not in a minimum deal. I will pass on that.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Those are last year's salaries. Plumlee is a free agent, and you have to factor in a decent raise for him.

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Ah, of course. Thanks. :tu

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

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:tu

Thanks for the detailed post and the plausible scenarios.

The only point I see as a problem is the notion that the room exception will be enough to retain Boban. The economics this summer make it very likely that he'll get considerably more than that. If the Spurs do sign a Gasol-level FA this summer, I don't believe they'll be able to keep Boban.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

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Any improvement has to come from the youngest players. Ppl trolled my thread but Kawhi and Kyle were our most improved players and were 24 and 22 yrs old. Our upside resides there. Guys that age are not done getting better, specially guys who Pop has been bringing along into roles slowly, putting more into their plate each year.

After that you look at Simmons and Boban. They can both score. The issue is can they defend? Time to find that out. Finally, Bertans can shoot the lights out. If we need more offense these are the guys you have to look at.

Veterans have to be ready to give way to the younger guys who get better if they earn it and hopefully they do, or some of them do at least.