Danny Green is VASTLY OVERRATED

In before the next "Start Simmons" thread.

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Originally Posted by poeticism707

Turns out the only thing DG is good for is his D, which he is elite at.

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Debatable. He played high level defense in the 2014 Finals. Other times, his man finds his way around him all too easy. He is maybe the best help defender at SG in the league though.

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Originally Posted by Mikeanaro

Danny Green is a fucking cancer.

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he needs to stop making commercials and work on his game

Green is the 2nd most polarizing and criticized player on SpursTalk(only behind Tony Parker), which automatically disqualifies him from being overrated, tbh..

He might be the face of the "analytics vs. eye test" debate in today's league, though..most of his haters fall in the latter group, while on the other side, he's an advanced metrics monster..

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Again, we really have to get some type of rule to prevent random threads up in here.

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There is no thread about Verde on the first page and he is not a random subject.

Green had an off year. It happens. But he has proven to be clutch for us at times and regardless is still one of the best defenders in the league and making only $10mil.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Green is the 2nd most polarizing and criticized player on SpursTalk(only behind Tony Parker), which automatically disqualifies him from being overrated, tbh..

He might be the face of the "analytics vs. eye test" debate in today's league, though..most of his haters fall in the latter group, while on the other side, he's an advanced metrics monster..

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Further to that, it seems like his defense goes unnoticed but is among the best at his position. But you do really notice his screw ups on D because it's usually missed rotations resulting in his guy getting an open shot.

Green is a top 30 three point shooter by percentage in league history and an elite defender. Well worth every dollar.

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Originally Posted by cjw

Further to that, it seems like his defense goes unnoticed but is among the best at his position. But you do really notice his screw ups on D because it's usually missed rotations resulting in his guy getting an open shot.

Green is a top 30 three point shooter by percentage in league history and an elite defender. Well worth every dollar.

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His defense is good at times and god-awful at times, he's a weak minded player. When he's on and hitting and playing defense, he is a steal. When he is one or the other, he is overpriced. He sucked ass last year.

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Originally Posted by tholdren

he's a weak minded player

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Love how you just throw that out there no big deal. :rolleyes

No, actually, he's not, and especially not on that contract. His defence, especially in transition and against particular players, is elite, and he sure can drain that 3-ball.

I think he'll have a bounce back season in 2016-17 now that he's adjusted to the new style of play.

Danny is not overrated. Elite defender, good to great 3 pt. Shooter. Very Important piece.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Green is the 2nd most polarizing and criticized player on SpursTalk(only behind Tony Parker), which automatically disqualifies him from being overrated, tbh..

He might be the face of the "analytics vs. eye test" debate in today's league, though..most of his haters fall in the latter group, while on the other side, he's an advanced metrics monster..

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Metrics will never tell the whole story and stats are largely worthless when not evaluated in context.

Let's say we have a player who puts up 50 points, 20 boards, and 10 assists on 20/20 shooting every other game. In the other game, he averages 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists on 1-10 shooting. His season average would be 26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg on 70%. His advanced metrics would be through the roof, but the eye test would tell us that this particular player can never put two good games together in a row, which is big liability to have for a star player.

This is obviously an extreme example, but it illustrates the problems with any statistical method of analysis. And Danny kind of fit that pattern in the OKC series. Oh yeah, his series stats were "great." 10.8ppg on .514 shooting from 3. But when you examine them in context, he shot 5-6 from 3 in a game 1 blowout. Was poor-to-mediocre over the next 2 games (he was okay in game 3), and then shot 6-8 from 3 in game 5. And then disappeared again.

Danny goes from one extreme to the other. He rarely gives us a consistent 8-10 points on 40% shooting from 3 every game. It's 17 points on 5-6 from 3 and then 3 points on 1-8 shooting the next game.

This also why I think advanced metrics needs some type of "consistency metric."

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Metrics will never tell the whole story and stats are largely worthless when not evaluated in context.

Let's say we have a player who puts up 50 points, 20 boards, and 10 assists on 20/20 shooting every other game. In the other game, he averages 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists on 1-10 shooting. His season average would be 26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg on 70%. His advanced metrics would be through the roof, but the eye test would tell us that this particular player can never put two good games together in a row, which is big liability to have for a star player.

This is obviously an extreme example, but it illustrates the problems with any statistical method of analysis. And Danny kind of fit that pattern in the OKC series. Oh yeah, his series stats were "great." 10.8ppg on .514 shooting from 3. But when you examine them in context, he shot 5-6 from 3 in a game 1 blowout. Was poor-to-mediocre over the next 2 games (he was okay in game 3), and then shot 6-8 from 3 in game 5. And then disappeared again.

Danny goes from one extreme to the other. He rarely gives us a consistent 8-10 points on 40% shooting from 3 every game. It's 17 points on 5-6 from 3 and then 3 points on 1-8 shooting the next game.

This also why I think advanced metrics needs some type of "consistency metric."

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I never realized how much we needed this until now. Good shit. Just to add on, this metric would have to take into account stat outbursts in a way that wouldn't be over penalized, if penalized at all. Otherwise, such a stat might say Kawhi was the best scorer in the league.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Metrics will never tell the whole story and stats are largely worthless when not evaluated in context.

Let's say we have a player who puts up 50 points, 20 boards, and 10 assists on 20/20 shooting every other game. In the other game, he averages 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists on 1-10 shooting. His season average would be 26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg on 70%. His advanced metrics would be through the roof, but the eye test would tell us that this particular player can never put two good games together in a row, which is big liability to have for a star player.

This is obviously an extreme example, but it illustrates the problems with any statistical method of analysis. And Danny kind of fit that pattern in the OKC series. Oh yeah, his series stats were "great." 10.8ppg on .514 shooting from 3. But when you examine them in context, he shot 5-6 from 3 in a game 1 blowout. Was poor-to-mediocre over the next 2 games (he was okay in game 3), and then shot 6-8 from 3 in game 5. And then disappeared again.

Danny goes from one extreme to the other. He rarely gives us a consistent 8-10 points on 40% shooting from 3 every game. It's 17 points on 5-6 from 3 and then 3 points on 1-8 shooting the next game.

This also why I think advanced metrics needs some type of "consistency metric."

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Sure, but this is the case with virtually every role player, it's why they're role players..I would bet that it's rare to find great role players that show offensive consistency in their scoring..

Shit, you could even use that logic with some superstars like Kobe, tbh..

You need to watch some clips of games 3-4 of 2014 Finals. The Heat thought the same thing.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Sure, but this is the case with virtually every role player, it's why they're role players..I would bet that it's rare to find great role players that show offensive consistency in their scoring..

Shit, you could even use that logic with some superstars like Kobe, tbh..

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Yeah, that's why I'd love to come up with a consistency stat. Danny just seemed particularly egregious this year with his offensive consistency. Like I said, it was an outburst one game and a disappearing act the next.

His nutsack doesn't shrivel up when the real season starts. He's also the Spurs second best defender. Hard to replace all of that.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Metrics will never tell the whole story and stats are largely worthless when not evaluated in context.

Let's say we have a player who puts up 50 points, 20 boards, and 10 assists on 20/20 shooting every other game. In the other game, he averages 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists on 1-10 shooting. His season average would be 26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg on 70%. His advanced metrics would be through the roof, but the eye test would tell us that this particular player can never put two good games together in a row, which is big liability to have for a star player.

This is obviously an extreme example, but it illustrates the problems with any statistical method of analysis. And Danny kind of fit that pattern in the OKC series. Oh yeah, his series stats were "great." 10.8ppg on .514 shooting from 3. But when you examine them in context, he shot 5-6 from 3 in a game 1 blowout. Was poor-to-mediocre over the next 2 games (he was okay in game 3), and then shot 6-8 from 3 in game 5. And then disappeared again.

Danny goes from one extreme to the other. He rarely gives us a consistent 8-10 points on 40% shooting from 3 every game. It's 17 points on 5-6 from 3 and then 3 points on 1-8 shooting the next game.

This also why I think advanced metrics needs some type of "consistency metric."

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Quality post - always go back to context. People don't understand that here. You have the Chinooks of the world who are can post some really sound stuff, and then interpret data incredibly wrong - and try to justify, not taking into account what lead to X stat in the first place. BUT....... that is how the game has always been explained.. ppg rpg apg etc.

I am not ready to give up on Green after one really bad year shooting the ball. Even Green said the hardest thing he was dealing with was developing "chemistry" with new teammates. I feel that he is very much a finesse player and if something upsets that balance, it throws off his own game but some posters on here forget so easily this guy broke the Finals record for 3's in 2013. He can shoot and in this league you don't have to do a lot but shoot great from 3 and play decent defense, both things that Green does much better than most comparable players at his position. If he has another bad year, I might be willing to side with you but you can't judge the guy based off of one year when he has done so much for us in the past. I am pretty sure he wasn't sitting on his laurels this offseason and will come back ready to contribute bc I think he is his own worst critic.

Just like Cojo was overrated.

I heard that for two years and then he had a very good year in Toronto. In fact, If Cojo had been on the roster still, the Spurs beat the Thunder.

People need to think before they make crazy statements.

Danny is a damn good defender, especially in transition. Most certainly, his offense was sub par for his standards last year, but I feel very confident that he comes back and has a great year.

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Originally Posted by Taking it to the Hole

I am not ready to give up on Green after one really bad year shooting the ball. Even Green said the hardest thing he was dealing with was developing "chemistry" with new teammates. I feel that he is very much a finesse player and if something upsets that balance, it throws off his own game but some posters on here forget so easily this guy broke the Finals record for 3's in 2013. He can shoot and in this league you don't have to do a lot but shoot great from 3 and play decent defense, both things that Green does much better than most comparable players at his position. If he has another bad year, I might be willing to side with you but you can't judge the guy based off of one year when he has done so much for us in the past. I am pretty sure he wasn't sitting on his laurels this offseason and will come back ready to contribute bc I think he is his own worst critic.

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meh - dude was missing wide open threes. don't need chemistry for that.

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Originally Posted by tholdren

meh - dude was missing wide open threes. don't need chemistry for that.

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Wrong, they were ¨affecting his confidence¨, you can hurt DG feelings if you dont treat him good, he can cry and the whole game suffers, such an ELITE defender and prolific 3 pointer ever needs everything just in place, maybe there was a bad vibe on the crowd, maybe someone farted at the stadium and game cant be played this way, maybe when he went to the bank dollars had a funny smell, pollution, etc...
Cant judge honestly, especially when he´s been sucking for 2 seasons in a row and scrubs here try to make it like it was just one season.

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

Yep, one of the few who shows up when it really matters. Game 7 against LAC he was one of the few to really show up as well, he did bad all series but shows up when it matters most of the time. He is a keeper.

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That's such bullshit. Shows up when it really matters? Game 7? It's the fucking playoffs. ALL of the games matter. Some of you guys have such a raging hard on for the guy it's ridiculous. You give him a pass and shit all over our all stars. It's unbelievable. He's had what two or three good games in the last two playoffs combined. Sime of you guys are still shooting your wads over the 3 or 4 games he was on fire against the heat when we lost. Newsflash guys. He SUCKED after they learned how to run him off the line and we lost.
Fuck Danny Green!

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Originally Posted by blizz

That's such bullshit. Shows up when it really matters? Game 7? It's the fucking playoffs. ALL of the games matter. Some of you guys have such a raging hard on for the guy it's ridiculous. You give him a pass and shit all over our all stars. It's unbelievable. He's had what two or three good games in the last two playoffs combined. Sime of you guys are still shooting your wads over the 3 or 4 games he was on fire against the heat when we lost. Newsflash guys. He SUCKED after they learned how to run him off the line and we lost.
Fuck Danny Green!

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