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Originally Posted by Tom_Foolery
You must be a bandwaggoner if you think the Lakers have always had respect fro the previous champion...
And I can't believe you put the Lakers over as being classy, while what D'antoni said bothers you...
Would you have been happier if D'antoni had come out and said, "We are the Spurs shank-ass bitches, and have no hope of ever beating them"
D'antoni said nothing incendiary...
But you seriously need to brush up on your Lakers and Shaq history.
Some of us are waaaayyyyy too sensative about this stuff. What would you have D'Antoni say? Would it be better -- would he show proper respect -- if he said something like "Gosh, the Spurs are so good that we don't have any chance at all, so we're really hoping to be a speed bump on their way to a repeat?"
It's his job to believe that his team can win a title and -- ahem -- beat the Spurs. If he doesn't believe that his team can do that, he shouldn't be coaching. There's absolutely nothing wrong with D'Antoni acknowledging that if his team is going to win a title, they'll have to beat more teams than the Spurs.
In other words, lighten up, Francis.
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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
:lmao
My sentiments exactly!!
well yes.... as a matter of fact.... thats exactly what he, and everyone else, should be saying. :elephant :drunk :elephant :drunkQuote:
Would it be better -- would he show proper respect -- if he said something like "Gosh, the Spurs are so good that we don't have any chance at all, so we're really hoping to be a speed bump on their way to a repeat?"
all you people talking about everyone taking his comments too seriously need to step back and take some of your own advice and realize that you are taking our comments too seriously. Its all good old fashion trash talking, no harm meant.
At least, I can say that as far as my comments are concerned, I of course cant speak for everyone else.
Finley would have been a nice addition to the Suns, just as he was for the Spurs, but he is not a "make or break" player at this point. BTW Nice use of quotes when that isn't a quote from the Suns.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
I would like to hear your reasoning for why they are worse. We are deeper we have more guys that can actually play our system instead of the bench that never played.
I'm skeptical about the Suns being better for 3 basic reasons: (1) I'll be surprised if Nash stays healthy for an entire season; (2) playing Kurt Thomas at Center will slow the pace a bit and have a domino effect in (a) taking a wing shooter off the floor and (b) forcing Marion out of the mismatches he saw at PF last season; and (3) if Thomas doesn't start, the Suns are similar to what they were last season in their first group, but without the 3 point shooting they got from Joe Johnson and Quentin Richardson.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirChaz
I don't think it will be nearly as easy for the Suns to blitz regular season opponents like they did last year and as a consequence, I think they'll lose more games, which will diminish their seeding and make things a lot more difficult for them at playoff time.
Suns:
"One Team,One goal,same result!"
When I see an Eagle running faster than a Cheetah,
I will believe the Suns can beat the Spurs in 7.
Tom Foolery is a fool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirChaz
I personally don't know if they are worse. I think everyone is saying that they will be worse because the players they picked up do not fit perfectly in their system from last year. I
I think the suns are not out to duplicate the exact same system and style that they had last year, so for me what the suns have are a lot of questions that they will have to answer once the season starts.
how will they do without the 3 point of JJ and Q? How will Kurt fit in the system? how much does nash have left?
I will hold judgement until the season starts before I say they are worse. They may not have as good of a regular season record but they could be tooled to be a stronger playoff team.
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
(1)The Suns were pretty lucky with a lack of injuries last year up untill JJ went down against Dallas. The Suns did better without Nash later in the year but that January stretch that coincided with the Nash injury was bad.
(2) I think coach has already said Thomas will start. I don't think it hurts the offense that much because Thomas can shoot. Not out to three point range but out to 18 ft. The biggest effect Thomas will have is he should help the Suns to finish defensive possessions. The Suns were one of the worst teams (if not the worst) in second chance points given up.
Marion will be Marion. People said he couldn't play at the 4 and be successful last year. Now you want to say he will suffer because he is not at the 4. His natural position is the 3 and should be near his career average numbers there.
Jackson was a better percentage shooter than Q or JJ. Add the addition of Jones, House, and Bell and I think the shooting and the offense will be fine. I am also hoping that Diaw can improve his shooting because he is being setup by Nash and the other players in the offense.
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Originally Posted by kskonn
Last year was lightning in a bottle and not likely to be repeated.
I agree that the Suns will probably not win as many games in the regular season but be better equipped with a little more depth for the playoffs.
They will have a more traditonal look than last year's team but I still think they will be very good. I think a lot of it depends on the chemistry from all these new players and how many injuries they have to deal with as many have said.
Sir Chaz -- I appreciate your points. I'm not going to argue just for the sake of arguing, but I'm fascinated by the decisions that the Suns have made and how those decisions will shake out. In that vein, a couple of thoughts to keep the conversation going:
See, I think that Thomas will have a significant, adverse effect on the greatest strength the Suns showed last season. Thomas might be able to help finish defensive possessions, but he's also not going to be able to run the way that Amare and Marion did for the Suns as a big.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirChaz
More than that, though, I think removing a three point shooter from the mix (just in numbers, not by identity) makes the Suns a bit easier to guard in transition. What made the Suns so difficult in transition last season is that you had to run to the shooters at the arc. By running to the shooters, defenses opened up in the middle and gave Amare and Marion all kinds of room to get to the rack without any pressure at all. Even when the Suns had to slow it down a bit and play in the half court, having 3 legitimate threats from deep on the floor at the same time (Marion, Johnson, and Richardson) spread the defense and gave Nash the middle to operate and denied teams any real opportunity to double Stoudemire. Initially, teams responded to those issues by playing zone, but the zone just encouraged 3 point shooting, even in the half court, which forced the zone out and opened the paint again.
It seems to me that if D'Antoni gives Thomas lots of minutes, he's shifting from an offense with 3 live bombers to one with 2.
At the same time, the issue with Marion is, I think, significant. I think part of what made their offense go last year was Marion forcing defensive bigs to come out an guard him on the perimeter. That takes a shot blocker and a rebounder away from the basket, while allowing Marion to either shoot from distance (if the defender won't come out) or put the ball on the floor and penetrate to either score or create havoc with rotations. If Marion isn't drawing that big away from the rim, I think the Suns become a team that must either shoot the three or bang it in to Amare. If that second big can stay closer to the rim, Amare's dunks on screen and roll plays should be more infrequent because teams will be able to rotate behind the play and cut off his drives to the rim. He may end up at the line a lot, but I'd be surprised if he gets as many dunks with Thomas on the floor as he did last season when Marion was playing the 4.
Statistically, you're right, but then again, Jackson wasn't asked to shoulder starter's minutes for the entire season last year and nobody can really be sure whether his body is capable of taking that sort of pounding at this point. It's been a long time since anyone asked Jim Jackson to do that for a team with aspirations of success. I'm completely not sold on either House or Bell; it seems to me that relying on guys like Bell diminishes the Suns offense much more than it will enhance their defense. Bell has never been a consistent scoring threat and while he may make some 3's, Raja Bell on the break doesn't really instill a great deal of fear, I don't think.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirChaz
Jones is an unknown quantity. When he got minutes last year, he was pretty good, but in looking through his game log, I don't see much consistency, even excluding games where his minutes were diminished. He could flourish in Phoenix, but he could also be exposed there as well. The same goes with Diaw.
Last season, the Suns were able to blitz people with a frenetic offense that put pressure not just on the other team's defense, but also on its offense to score at the same pace -- miss a layup here or there, and you might not ever get close again. I don't see this lineup having the same ability to present both problems. They say that they're going to defend more and better and that they won't have to score quite as much, but if the Suns are going to commit to playing more defense, they're going to commit more fouls than last year and they'll face foul problems more regularly, which is going to test the system -- is it a system that got them wins last year or was it the players in that system? They're deeper, but I'm not sure that depth doesn't detract from their greatest strength.
I think the Suns will be one of the most interesting teams to watch in the first 2 months of the season.
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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
Seriously people, some of you are seriously looking for somthing to nit pick about.
Coach D has already made it clear than Kurt will in-bound which means he won't have to run as much..in fact by the time he get's down the court the Suns will most likley have already scored.I am very concerned with the fact that everyone and i mean everyone said we needed a bench,rebounding,and defence..What do the Suns do get all of that and some seem to think were going to be this bad team. As long as we have Amare and Nash doing the pick n roll and the Matrix being well the Matrix we will be fine!
Another thing.. It seems as though everything i read about the Suns has something to do with JJ. No one even knew who this guy was until 04-05..JJ is good but if i'm right we did play 7 playoff games without him..The results winning against dallas(a good team) and will losing to the soon to be Champs..
oh and about this whole thing about Coach D not respecting the spurs...just get over it.. Before some of you start freaking out about what he says atleast find a quote that actully is saying the Suns have no respect for the spurs.
But it seems to me that Amare and Nash on the pick and roll won't be as effective as it was last year if: (1) a big isn't required to defend Marion and (2) there aren't enough three point shooters on the floor to spread the defense. It will be much easier for teams to clog the lane or bring a second big over on a rotation to at least deny Amare a smooth roll to the hoop and an easy 2. Amare is either going to go to the line a lot, or he's going to have to make a 12-15 foot jump shot consistently, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by NashtoAmare
I don't think they need him to. Q couldn't run the way Amare and Marion did last year. Q was the trailer on the break much of the time and Thomas will be trailing as well. Thomas will not stop at the three point line like Q but he will be better on the glass and allow Marion and Amare to leak out on the break.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
I guess we will see. Most teams run to the paint which is why the three is open in transition so much for the Suns last year. Against more disciplined teams like the Spurs it didn't work as well because they focused on taking away the three which lead to monster games for Amare.Quote:
More than that, though, I think removing a three point shooter from the mix (just in numbers, not by identity) makes the Suns a bit easier to guard in transition. What made the Suns so difficult in transition last season is that you had to run to the shooters at the arc. By running to the shooters, defenses opened up in the middle and gave Amare and Marion all kinds of room to get to the rack without any pressure at all. Even when the Suns had to slow it down a bit and play in the half court, having 3 legitimate threats from deep on the floor at the same time (Marion, Johnson, and Richardson) spread the defense and gave Nash the middle to operate and denied teams any real opportunity to double Stoudemire. Initially, teams responded to those issues by playing zone, but the zone just encouraged 3 point shooting, even in the half court, which forced the zone out and opened the paint again.
I don't think it will hurt the scoring that much. If we only score 105 instead ofQuote:
It seems to me that if D'Antoni gives Thomas lots of minutes, he's shifting from an offense with 3 live bombers to one with 2.
110 but allow fewer opportunities on the other end it work out fine.
True but Marion was close to a 20/10 guy before last year. I expect his number won't drop much if at all. How his matchup affects the overall team production I guess we will see. I suspect we will still see Marion play some regular minutes at the 4 in a small line up. Like you said it was successful last year. The difference this season should be we have a choice.Quote:
At the same time, the issue with Marion is, I think, significant. I think part of what made their offense go last year was Marion forcing defensive bigs to come out an guard him on the perimeter.
I really think they will try to get Jackson enough minutes to be effective (D'Antoni thinks about 25) but few enough minutes to not wear him out for the playoffs where he played very well for us. I think it was game 4 against Dallas he kept us afloat in the 4th quarter.Quote:
Statistically, you're right, but then again, Jackson wasn't asked to shoulder starter's minutes for the entire season last year and nobody can really be sure whether his body is capable of taking that sort of pounding at this point. It's been a long time since anyone asked Jim Jackson to do that for a team with aspirations of success. I'm completely not sold on either House or Bell; it seems to me that relying on guys like Bell diminishes the Suns offense much more than it will enhance their defense. Bell has never been a consistent scoring threat and while he may make some 3's, Raja Bell on the break doesn't really instill a great deal of fear, I don't think.
All of the Suns 2nd year players are question marks. Barbosa, Diaw, and Jones.Quote:
Jones is an unknown quantity. When he got minutes last year, he was pretty good, but in looking through his game log, I don't see much consistency, even excluding games where his minutes were diminished. He could flourish in Phoenix, but he could also be exposed there as well. The same goes with Diaw.
Well also the Suns lured teams into playing that up tempo style and wore teams out by the 4th. Other teams were not used to running that much and they would also tend to turn the ball over more than the Suns because of the pace.Quote:
Last season, the Suns were able to blitz people with a frenetic offense that put pressure not just on the other team's defense, but also on its offense to score at the same pace -- miss a layup here or there, and you might not ever get close again. I don't see this lineup having the same ability to present both problems. They say that they're going to defend more and better and that they won't have to score quite as much, but if the Suns are going to commit to playing more defense, they're going to commit more fouls than last year and they'll face foul problems more regularly, which is going to test the system -- is it a system that got them wins last year or was it the players in that system? They're deeper, but I'm not sure that depth doesn't detract from their greatest strength.
This is part of the reason the Spurs did so well. They know who they are and are very well coached. They didn't fall into that trap and in the game when the Suns were shorthanded in a sense trapped the Suns.
It will be intersting to see how it works out but I don't think the Suns are in as much trouble as many peole are saying.Quote:
I think the Suns will be one of the most interesting teams to watch in the first 2 months of the season.
Great points as usual BTW
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Originally Posted by whottt
Not to mention that Shaq had actually answered to a Late Night Show Host..(don't remember) when asked about the San Antonio Spurs in 99 and their championship. I think he stated something like "The WNBA Champion San Antonio Spurs?"
Love to hate shaq.
Add to this Lakers of 01-03 used to pull cheap shots against their opponents. Shaq making fun of Yao,spurs etc. Kobe's arrogant bitchings. Phil's cheap, classless shots against opposing coaches. Role players acting crazy were just irritating. They had no class - period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sense
Eventhough the media was sucking upto them and they were the champions, they were acting like lil bitches.