Why is everyone concerned about Gasol's defense?

Some stats to chew on:

Gasol's at rim defense is only 2 percentage higher than Duncan's. And about equal to that of Ibaka, Stephen Adams, and Bogut. Look at Boris's at rim defense for comparison.

http://sportsbystats-s3-tut1ac8i.s3....s-2014-15-.png

Gasol's man interior defense ranks 3rd on this list of bigs:

http://sportsbystats-s3-tut1ac8i.s3....fference-1.png

And here's some good news regarding everyone's major concern:

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Now, the biggest criticism of Pau Gasol is his pick-and-roll defense. And this is completely valid. Gasol is in the bottom-half of the NBA regarding his ability to defend the roll man.

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BUT

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Golden State attacks the roll defender the third least times in the association. Where they would attack Pau, therefore, is when the screen is switched to take a three point shot. Here, Pau is not as bad. He allows the 19th lowest eFG% off screens as a roll defender. What this means is that Pau Gasol is more than likely a better defender when he guards pick-and-pops — which are included in the aforementioned statistic — but a horrendous interior defender when he is guarding a driving roll man.

What this means is that the Clippers, Spurs, and Thunder — all who run a significant amount of screens that attack the roll man’s defender — are more of a threat to Pau’s defense because they generally attack the roll man as he moves inside. Essentially, these teams do not use the three-point shot on screens nearly as much as Cleveland and Golden State, and thus pose a greater risk to Pau Gasol’s defensive limitations.

Consequently, at worst, Pau Gasol’s holistic defense is a wash. When one examines advanced statistics, though, they all rank him highly. These stats include the fourth best Defensive Box Plus/Mins, defensive win shares, and defensive rating. Overall, he provides very good interior defense, however, is weak defending a driving roll man off of screens. When the advanced metrics are consulted, though, he is still a net positive on the defensive end.

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Spurs indeed did their homework here.

Excellent stuff, midnightpulp!

Vegas is shit, tbh

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I'm not concerned about his defense as an individual..as I said earlier, his defense isn't far off from Duncan's, at this point..

In addition to his solid rim protection numbers, the Bulls ranked as one of the worst defenses in the NBA at allowing penetration, Gasol was tested more often than most other bigs in the league..it gave the perception that his defense was worse than the reality..

The concern vs. GS is obviously the mobility of the Gasol/Aldridge duo, though..neither of them have the defensive mobility of Adams/Ibaka or Tristan Thompson..they're also both finesse players..

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This just in, water is wet

I think he will be fine on the defensive side......Saw some youtube vids of Gasol on the Bulls and the dude can still play...LMA and Pau on the same team....now that's pretty good....

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Adams and Kanter killed the Warriors on the boards.

We saw just how valuable length and rebounding are in playoff series against a small ball team.

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Comparing Gasol, a finesse player, to Adams, a brawler, is a joke. Adams killed the Dubs because he is a Maori warrior on the court - a controlled wrecking ball - while Gasol is a completely different kind of player who relies on skill and smarts. All bigs aren't the same, y'know.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pau, but he's not what we need next to LMA. They are both soft, skillful players, and we needed to team LMA up with a banger. Once again our frontcourt is too soft.

In the best of all worlds I'd see us trade LMA for a banger and some young pieces because I don't like relying on a jumpshooter and a softie in the playoffs, but I am fully aware of the player-culture reasons we won't/can't do this.

So how about a list of bangers that the Spurs can acquire?

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Dubs are the only dangerous smallball team. Every other team you don't have to worry about the pg shooting from anywhere on the court.

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Dubs are the only team that matters.

Also, so many other teams are now embracing smallball as a philosophy that I'm pretty sure some other dangerous smallball teams will arise soon.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Dubs are the only team that matters.

Also, so many other teams are now embracing smallball as a philosophy that I'm pretty sure some other dangerous smallball teams will arise soon.

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If the Dubs are the only team that matters, then Pau Gasol, who had more points, rebounds and blocks per minute than Steven Adams, should be able to dominate the smaller players on the Dubs.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

So how about a list of bangers that the Spurs can acquire?

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I haven't thought deeply about it because we're obviously not moving LMA for culture reasons. I'll have a think about the hypothetical of what we could get for LMA and get back to you.

As I said, I really like Pau's game at both ends, and he's the best we can do in this crazy off-season, but he and LMA are SOFT. I hope we can bring in a cheap banger to play behind them, someone with some physicality and a mean streak. Hmmm....

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

I haven't thought deeply about it because we're obviously not moving LMA for culture reasons. I'll have a think about the hypothetical of what we could get for LMA and get back to you.

As I said, I really like Pau's game at both ends, and he's the best we can do in this crazy off-season, but he and LMA are SOFT. I hope we can bring in a cheap banger to play behind them, someone with some physicality and a mean streak. Hmmm....

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Sorry, forget about that one. The second comment is more worthy of your response, IMO. Adams seems like he's really tough, but Gasol had better numbers all around in the same number of minutes. I think Gasol's a lot tougher than people give him credit for.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

If the Dubs are the only team that matters, then Pau Gasol, who had more points, rebounds and blocks per minute than Steven Adams, should be able to dominate the smaller players on the Dubs.

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Really going with that line of thought? Adams dominated the Dubs physically and mentally, a crucial point in this. He intimidated them to the point they changed their games.

Pau will put up numbers, but he and LMA aren't going to intimidate anyone.

I'm surprised you aren't concerned about their softness. A double-skill bigman duo will only go so far when it gets nasty in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I keep reading about this concern from posters here and downstairs.

Gasol ranked 6th in DRPM among defensive centers. I know the concern is about his pick-and-roll defense, but not every team is Golden State, and having a shot blocking 7'1" center with length for days just makes our perimeter defense of Kawhi and Green that much tougher. The Spurs put up historic defensive metrics all year, despite not having a small ball center that can switch. The only reason the defense looked pedestrian in the 2nd round was because of the obvious Duncan decline, who could no longer shot-block and rebound like he once could earlier in the season. Gasol was a double-double machine this season.

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The reason Noah got benched was b/c Pau was getting killed when he had to play the 4 since Noah wanted to play the 5. He won't have that issue on the Spurs since LMA wants no part of playing the 5.:lol

PS Steph and Klay went 6/6 on 3s over Adams in game 7. Poor bastard did everything right and they didn't miss on his watch. He's quicker out on the perimeter, and tougher on the inside, than either of our primary bigs. That concerns me.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

How is a lineup with LMA and Gasol together going to matchup with Dub small-ball? Or any smallball team with good perimeter shooting? I think that's the major theme, and it is a concern. The obvious answer is that we can't play them together against smallball lineups, and that's the case with just about any 2-big lineup in the NBA.

On the flipside, no-one will be able to match up well with the Warriors now.

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Easy. Play both of them together because they're both bigger than Golden State. Did everyone forget OKC was 48 minutes away from going to the finals by playing them big? :lol

Maybe since the Nuggets love Jokic so much we should try and nab Nurkic? He has great size, a mean streak, and some skill to boot! Cheap too.

The other guy I'd look at, although not realistic due to the cap, is Amir Johnson. Unfortunately he has a $12m team option, abd nay command more on the market, so unlikely. Be a good 3rd big for us though.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Easy. Play both of them together because they're both bigger than Golden State. Did everyone forget OKC was 48 minutes away from going to the finals by playing them big? :lol

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Once again, OKC bigs played tough and overwhelmed them. LMA and Pau are finesse players and I don't see them overwhelming teams with physicality.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Comparing Gasol, a finesse player, to Adams, a brawler, is a joke. Adams killed the Dubs because he is a Maori warrior on the court - a controlled wrecking ball - while Gasol is a completely different kind of player who relies on skill and smarts. All bigs aren't the same, y'know.

Don't get me wrong, I like Pau, but he's not what we need next to LMA. They are both soft, skillful players, and we needed to team LMA up with a banger. Once again our frontcourt is too soft.

In the best of all worlds I'd see us trade LMA for a banger and some young pieces because I don't like relying on a jumpshooter and a softie in the playoffs, but I am fully aware of the player-culture reasons we won't/can't do this.

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None of them are soft :lol You're drinking the Kobe fan koolaid. Never heard Pau get called soft until after he left the Lakers.

Aldridge led the team in scoring against OKC, not bad for a softie.

I guarantee you, if Adams had a jump shot you'd call him soft too. Jump shooting big men get called soft for some reason. Happened to Dirk until he rang.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Really going with that line of thought? Adams dominated the Dubs physically and mentally, a crucial point in this. He intimidated them to the point they changed their games.

Pau will put up numbers, but he and LMA aren't going to intimidate anyone.

I'm surprised you aren't concerned about their softness. A double-skill bigman duo will only go so far when it gets nasty in the playoffs.

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Well, you said that the Dubs are the only team that mattered. Adams didn't intimidate the Warriors, unless rolling on the ground holding his nuts is intimidating. The Warriors won three games in a row against them.

The team Adams really intimidated is the Spurs, but as you said, the Dubs are all that matters, so how Gasol and Aldridge match up with the Warriors is the important thing, and Adams isn't a factor. IMO :)

I'm concerned, for sure, but my concern is more about Pop not utilizing them properly, refusing to play them together against the Warriors, trying to match them with small lineups, overthinking matchups and coddling and protecting and over resting his players. I've probably said this already, but I think he's a lot tougher than people give him credit for. Gasol has been GREAT through his career at exploiting shorter players. Nobody is better at keeping the ball up when he catches it near the basket. It's a fucking nightmare for undersized front lines.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Easy. Play both of them together because they're both bigger than Golden State. Did everyone forget OKC was 48 minutes away from going to the finals by playing them big? :lol

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OKC wasn't 48 minutes away by posting players up. That's the offense of the Spurs. Both OKC and Cavs gave GSW problems because they had two face to the basket guards. We have Kawhi who is fine but we also have two complete non-dribblers in Green and LMA. Tony is too old and slow to put pressure on the defense. I don't think we have a chance until we acquire a star pg.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Once again, OKC bigs played tough and overwhelmed them. LMA and Pau are finesse players and I don't see them overwhelming teams with physicality.

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Here's a video of Pau Gasol being dominated by tough banger Zaza Pachulia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juKWFMXIIpk

In your opinion, was Gasol too soft? Could any other tough banger fare much better?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Well, you said that the Dubs are the only team that mattered. Adams didn't intimidate the Warriors, unless rolling on the ground holding his nuts is intimidating. The Warriors won three games in a row against them.

The team Adams really intimidated is the Spurs, but as you said, the Dubs are all that matters, so how Gasol and Aldridge match up with the Warriors is the important thing, and Adams isn't a factor. IMO :)

I'm concerned, for sure, but my concern is more about Pop not utilizing them properly, refusing to play them together against the Warriors, trying to match them with small lineups, overthinking matchups and coddling and protecting and over resting his players. I've probably said this already, but I think he's a lot tougher than people give him credit for. Gasol has been GREAT through his career at exploiting shorter players. Nobody is better at keeping the ball up when he catches it near the basket. It's a fucking nightmare for undersized front lines.

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The 3 game Dubs win streak wasn't on Adams - he was doing his job while KD and Westbrook choked (and the Splash Bros got hot).

We've obviously zigged towards big and mid-range and slow, while the rest of the NBA has zagged towards fast and 3-or-layup and small. Given that trend, Pau fits what we're doing.

I'm glad we have him, and it'll be interesting to see how he and LMA play together, but I still think our front court is soft. We'll see how it turns out.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

I'm glad we have him, and it'll be interesting to see how he and LMA play together, but I still think our front court is soft. We'll see how it turns out.

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I agree. Super glad to have him. I think the front court will be mismanaged by the coach. I damn sure don't hate the Spurs' chances against the Warriors in the playoffs if LMA and Pau each get 40 MPG. At least it feels like they have a chance right now. :lol

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

OKC wasn't 48 minutes away by posting players up. That's the offense of the Spurs. Both OKC and Cavs gave GSW problems because they had two face to the basket guards. We have Kawhi who is fine but we also have two complete non-dribblers in Green and LMA. Tony is too old and slow to put pressure on the defense. I don't think we have a chance until we acquire a star pg.

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Spurs don't have much of a chance regardless, but to play them how THEY want us to play them isn't very smart. With Diaw leaving, that leaves us with a small ball lineup up Aldridge, Anderson, Leonard, Green, Parker/Manu... That ain't getting it done since Anderson, Green, and Parker/Manu are liabilities offensively and 3 out of those 4 are liabilities defensively. We have no choice but to go big and run it through the post unfortunately.

The way Pop has looked in the post season these last couple of years, this is pretty much a pointless conversation. (We also haven't even added the officiating factor :lol)

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Easy. Play both of them together because they're both bigger than Golden State. Did everyone forget OKC was 48 minutes away from going to the finals by playing them big? :lol

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Did you forget they swapped Barnes w/ Dominos?:lol