How Summer League is Improving Simmons and Anderson

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Originally Posted by ernest787

The problem with KA and Simmons is that both are solid in several areas, but neither is elite at anything. KA is a solid passer. He has solid court vision. He's proven to be a solid on ball defense, but he's not special at anything. The Diaw comparisons are frustrating b/c Diaw has elite court vision and passing and KA just doesn't have that in my opinion.

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That generally applies to all bench players. That's why they're on the bench.

Great find and commentary OP.

I've resigned myself to thinking that this coming year is about reloading rather than true title contention. It's the first time in my Spurs fandom where i can really say I feel that way, but I'm actually fairly excited about it. I find myself more interested in the draft, free agency, summer league, d league/stashes, etc. than before.

Should be an interesting evolution from here until Leonard hits free agency again to see what talent they're ultimately able to put around him. Of course the hope is some of these guys like Anderson and Simmons become long term contributors, but I'm just as interested to see which are converted into other perhaps more impact assets.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Manu is just going to play backup PG, like he's been for the last few years... that's why i wanted to see more of Kyle playing off the ball and see if he's any more effective at that now, but it won't happen in the SL, apparently.

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I think the best game that we saw of that was the Philly game, he screened for PnP 3s and spotted up for 3s. He will post up and do his own thing same as Boris did at times because he needs to develop, but his off the ball play involved a two man game with Simmons screening at the 3 pt line a lot and he moved to the 3 point line when he was open, instead of passing up 3 point shots like we had previously seen him do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7N7G4wCt3I
Think of Boris off the ball play. He was often involved in play actions with the guards anyways and he scored on his own pretty much too, a much needed aspect for the bench.

Spurs should trade high on both these guys, tbh.

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Originally Posted by dabom

Playing off the ball is the easiest form to learn in the nba. If fathead can't play it, what makes us think he can be ready to distribute at an NBA contender.

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I dunno about that. Some players just like to have touches, don't move without the ball... You could've criticized Belli for a lot of things, but his off the ball play was very, very good... and you need guys like that.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I think the best game that we saw of that was the Philly game, he screened for PnP 3s and spotted up for 3s. He will post up and do his own thing same as Boris did at times because he needs to develop, but his off the ball play involved a two man game with Simmons screening at the 3 pt line a lot and he moved to the 3 point line when he was open, instead of passing up 3 point shots like we had previously seen him do.

Think of Boris off the ball play. He was often involved in play actions with the guards anyways and he scored on his own pretty much too, a much needed aspect for the bench.

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I think you need to get through your head that the Spurs are not into developing players during the season. We're not in rebuild mode, that's why they had both of these guys work on what they needed to work on during the summer, and the SL is somewhat an extension of that. Pop isn't going to play guys because "he needs to develop them". If a player needs development time, he'll go to the Austin Spurs. Kyle, Simms did that and now probably Murray will do that too.

The expectations with these "vet-rookies" if you will, is that they've already developed their game/niche enough where Pop can throw them into a game and they can produce. If they're not there, then they won't play.

I mean, there's going to be some time to gel, obviously, but it's not about developing them, it's about developing the bench chemistry, with the assumption all those guys already have a good skillset they bring to the table in that unit.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I dunno about that. Some players just like to have touches, don't move without the ball... You could've criticized Belli for a lot of things, but his off the ball play was very, very good... and you need guys like that.

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Unless they are elite players idc. Fathead is not good enough to be a sixth man type player especially if he can't score. Dude just needs to set up for open threes and make them at a respectable clip.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I think you need to get through your head that the Spurs are not into developing players during the season. We're not in rebuild mode, that's why they had both of these guys work on what they needed to work on during the summer, and the SL is somewhat an extension of that. Pop isn't going to play guys because "he needs to develop them". If a player needs development time, he'll go to the Austin Spurs. Kyle, Simms did that and now probably Murray will do that too.

The expectations with these "vet-rookies" if you will, is that they've already developed their game/niche enough where Pop can throw them into a game and they can produce. If they're not there, then they won't play.

I mean, there's going to be some time to gel, obviously, but it's not about developing them, it's about developing the bench chemistry, with the assumption all those guys already have a good skillset they bring to the table in that unit.

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You might be surprised is all I am saying. Guys are always developed through the season. That is how Cojo grew up in a crowded rotation and we saw it last season with several players too. Either they grow up or they don't and if they don't they will find themselves elsewhere, but the Spurs have developed youth with potential in these latter times that I have been following them because they needed to. If you think they won't then you are stuck in the past with all due respect. I already found Manu deferring to Mills' development as more of a traditional PG last season and commented about it through the season. It's a pity Mills is what he is, but it wasn't for a lack of trying.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

You might be surprised is all I am saying. Guys are always developed through the season. That is how Cojo grew up in a crowded rotation and we saw it last season with several players too. Either they grow up or they don't and if they don't they will find themselves elsewhere, but the Spurs have developed youth with potential in these latter times that I have been following them because they needed to. If you think they won't then you are stuck in the past with all due respect. I already found Manu deferring to Mills' development as more of a traditional PG last season and commented about it through the season. It's a pity Mills is what he is, but it wasn't for a lack of trying.

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I wanna be surprised. Cojo earned his spot beating DeColo for it. He found his niche being aggressive on the court. Sometimes these little competitions work out. I'm actually hoping Betrans comes in and kinda lights up that kind of competition with Simmons. I also want him to be really good, so that also eventually lights a fire under Danny Green. I don't think it was surprising at all that neither Kyle or Simms (or Boban) were ready for the playoffs last season. Pop won't play guys to "develop" them, not on a contender that has to worry about a lot of other things, like seeding, winning at home, trying to get some cohesion in different units, etc. Kawhi was the sole exception lately and has everything to do with the fact that he's very talented, and was a relatively high pick, which the Spurs really thought could shine (even then, they held on with RJ for a while just in case). But neither Kyle or Simms are going to get that treatment, they're not that good. They're going to have to earn it doing the little things and potentially beating competition within the team out there (OTOH, I don't see a clear competitor for Kyle's spot at the moment).

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I wanna be surprised. Cojo earned his spot beating DeColo for it. He found his niche being aggressive on the court. Sometimes these little competitions work out. I'm actually hoping Betrans comes in and kinda lights up that kind of competition with Simmons. I also want him to be really good, so that also eventually lights a fire under Danny Green. I don't think it was surprising at all that neither Kyle or Simms (or Boban) were ready for the playoffs last season. Pop won't play guys to "develop" them, not on a contender that has to worry about a lot of other things, like seeding, winning at home, trying to get some cohesion in different units, etc. Kawhi was the sole exception lately and has everything to do with the fact that he's very talented, and was a relatively high pick, which the Spurs really thought could shine (even then, they held on with RJ for a while just in case). But neither Kyle or Simms are going to get that treatment, they're not that good. They're going to have to earn it doing the little things and potentially beating competition within the team out there (OTOH, I don't see a clear competitor for Kyle's spot at the moment).

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I agree in the competition. It was Chinook that first brought it up and that is the way to weed out those who will make it from those who will not, at least in this team (bc energy guy JSimms could play in any other team a few minutes so long as he's that athletic and score in transition, look at the Corey Brewers of the world, it just lowers his ceiling that much more and maybe his fit if he's not able to fit in to what the Spurs need from him).

By all accounts Pop wanted to hold onto Boris. I think Pop wanted Kyle to beat Boris out, a tall task, but one that Tony, Kawhi and a few others performed. Tough job for Kyle to do bc Boris is a very nice player when he plays well, but yea he's getting right up there in age, and his laissez faire and lack of care started to make it easier for Pop to go to Kyle.. and we kept on winning with him averaging 20 minutes so he earned it. Even Manu at one point mentioned it, that these two weren't getting their minutes as a charity act. But in no way was Pop comfortable handing things or spots out. I thought he wanted a veteran PF and let Kyle supplant that guy out with his own development. It was just impossible for the Spurs to retain Boris and keep other pieces. Even Boban, who I think they really planned to keep, they were unable to. Had either of these two (KA/JS) been a FA, they would been gone too for sure the way of Cojo, Belinelli, and Baynes. When I say that they will get time to develop... I saw Pop calling post ups for Kyle in games. I am sure that is something he practices relentlessly and that they have seen him work on, but until you put him in that situation, he can't learn when to assert himself and when to pass like Boris. It's not like they will go to him a whole lot, but they will go to him at times, bc Boris is not there. If he's not cutting it, Pop will find some washed up vet somewhere like Kevin Martin, and Kyle will still have to beat that guy out. He will be a better player for having gone through that, instead of having been drafted by the Sixers and going out there losing games after games not learning anything, so I think we kind of agree, or at least I think I agree with your perception.

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Originally Posted by dabom

Unless they are elite players idc. Fathead is not good enough to be a sixth man type player especially if he can't score. Dude just needs to set up for open threes and make them at a respectable clip.

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Well said