Zach Lowe: Spurs losers in Free Agency

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16...-agency-period

Lowe: San Antonio countering the Durant event by signing a loping, ground-bound Pau Gasol might end up the perfect final symbol for the transition of power in the Western Conference. Remember: Golden State never feared the Spurs. Even after losing in San Antonio in March, Golden State's players chatted in the locker room about how the Spurs posed no threat to them in a seven-game series, according to several team sources.

San Antonio has never been able to score against these Warriors, and Gasol's silky but slow post game just doesn't feel like a potent enough answer. Tony Parker is 34, and the Spurs couldn't find another off-the-bounce threat to ease his burden.

The Spurs set the template for defending Golden State, but they might not be able to hold off the deluge without the thinking man's excellence of Timothy Theodore Duncan.

The Spurs probably know they can't beat the Warriors without some injury luck. They tried to get Durant, after all. A nucleus of Kawhi Leonard, LaMarcus Aldridge and Danny Green is a ridiculous starting point, but it feels like San Antonio needs a placeholder season to figure out what to do next. At least the Thunder are gone.


He also said on NBA Lockdown Podcast that Spurs struggled defensively without Duncan last year and expects the same with Gasol. IMO he's totally missing the point that Duncan was replaced by West/Diaw who aren't long or good rebounding. Spurs have Dedmon and Pau both are 7ft and good rebounders. No way in hell IMO did the Spurs "lose" when they replaced a starting center with an all star center tbh....they just didn't get KD

He's right tbh. The Spurs lost Tim. That automatically makes them the biggest losers of the offseason.

Until this team has more "off-the-bounce" threats they have zero chance. That's why we need a star pg next free-agency.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robz4000

He's right tbh. The Spurs lost Tim. That automatically makes them the biggest losers of the offseason.

---

:cry

Durant was THE free agent this season. Everyone who didn't get him "lost".

Maybe they should just cancel the season.

Spurs are still the 2nd/3rd best team in the league. Anything can happen in the playoffs.

We didn't get better, which makes us losers. But we are not the biggest losers. That goes to Thunder. Clippers did next to nothing. Grizzlies will be better with a healthy team but their ceiling is just not high enough. Parsons isn't going to put them over the top. Rockets, who knows. They have no defense, literally none. Jazz, Nuggets and Twolves will improve, but not enough to best us. Pelicans signed Solomon Hill ffs. Mavs got the left overs. Lakers, Suns, Kings are still trash. Portland could make a jump.

It really comes down that the best in the west got better, second best got worse, and third and fourth best went sideways.

People writing obituaries before the season started.. Great individuals can shape the game but great teams can transcend individual greatness. Spurs kept the majority of their pieces together while getting younger and bringing in Gasol who will fit well in his role. They will ultimately need to work together and figure out how it will play out depending on how Pop will play them. That said, GSW needs to do the same thing, they lost a lot of pieces and they will need to learn how to play together.. Just having great shooters on the floor doesn't make them all that special. GSW will regress some as they learn to share the ball etc..

Spurs will have a great opportunity to beat them if they're able to play the way they want to and are not coaxed into playing another teams game. It usually takes Pop a few seasons to get that whenever there is a changing of the style of effective play in the NBA, hopefully this season or next is the case for the Spurs.

The Warriors players didn't fear the Spurs... Who gives a shit?

Im sure they didn't fear Cleveland when they blew them out by 40 in the regular season. Still got smacked the fuck up when it mattered.

I just don't see how getting Gasol is a loss? Lol

They're still the 2nd best team in the West..I respect Lowe I just think he's too caught up with matching up with with Warriors mindset.

Like how are the Spurs a "loser" but the Heat aren't? How they replace Wade?

Spurs do the best job in the league in player development. If Kawhi takes another step forward and gets better, LMA second year in the system feels more comfortable, guys like Anderson and Simmons get better, who knows. GSW created a super team, all the pressure is on them anyways....Curry and KD could get hurt, you never know

Lowe sounding like Amin now. They don't think the Spurs have a shot in hell at beating the warriors. Well, guess what the rest of the NBA has no chance either.

The Spurs are an offseason loser because they lost a top three all-time player, but getting a guy who went for 16 points, 11 boards, 4 assists and 2 blocks last year to take his spot, the second biggest free agent, and the guy they wanted all along is a pretty decent consolation prize.

Also, that story about the Warriors not fearing the Spurs needs to die. That game taught the entire league how to beat the Dubs, and they never bothered to even look at the tape.

I would say we're winners considering we got the best replacement possible for Timmy.

As for adding a dribble-drive threat, there wasn't any worthwhile FAs at the right price.

By the way, guys, this is how articles are going to read for the next year or so. Writers know they can get a lot of clicks from new Warriors fans while the bandwagon is growing. They probably don't actually believe any of the shit they're writing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The Spurs are an offseason loser because they lost a top three all-time player, but getting a guy who went for 16 points, 11 boards, 4 assists and 2 blocks last year to take his spot, the second biggest free agent, and the guy they wanted all along is a pretty decent consolation prize.

Also, that story about the Warriors not fearing the Spurs needs to die. That game taught the entire league how to beat the Dubs, and they never bothered to even look at the tape.

---

That's exactly right. Teams took the defensive template from that game, used it, and solved the Warriors. Oklahoma damn near beat em with it, hell a rebuilding Portland used it to win two damn games.cleveland finally fixed their rotations and used it to beat them three damn games in a row

This team won't go anywhere untill get get another all-star level perimeter player. We just don't have enough firepower.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GSH

Durant was THE free agent this season. Everyone who didn't get him "lost".

Maybe they should just cancel the season.

---

What's funny is how many teams have absolutely hamstrung themselves by throwing good money after bad free agents. The Spurs went after the one guy who was worth a max deal, and then got Pau Gasol at about ten million dollars less than his market value. So they have two, maybe three all-stars in their starting lineup and they still have money to have a shot at a Russel Westbrook next summer.

Sounds like a winning plan to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I would say we're winners considering we got the best replacement possible for Timmy.

As for adding a dribble-drive threat, there wasn't any worthwhile FAs at the right price.

---

I don't get the either, the Spurs have Leonard, Aldridge when he wants to be, Murray if he's allowed to make mistakes ALA 2001 Parker. Simmon's best skill is dribble drive.

Hell Bertans can do it to an extent but wtf?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

What's funny is how many teams have absolutely hamstrung themselves by throwing good money after bad free agents. The Spurs went after the one guy who was worth a max deal, and then got Pau Gasol at about ten million dollars less than his market value. So they have two, maybe three all-stars in their starting lineup and they still have money to have a shot at a Russel Westbrook next summer.

Sounds like a winning plan to me.

---

Westbrook, Chrid Paul.... Plus young guys can develop like Murray, Bertans, Anderson.

They probably quit fearing the thunder only after Durant whispered sweet nothings in their ears after game 5 of WCF's.

The Spurs won the off-season simply by avoiding giving out any of those Bazemore/Crabbe/Mozgov contracts. Gasol's contract would have been fine under the old cap. I think when 2017 and especially 2018 rolls around, there are going to be a lot of teams that are locked into long-term horrible contracts while the Spurs will have a ton of cap space and a couple of decent players (along with their best player) 27 and under.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I would say we're winners considering we got the best replacement possible for Timmy.

As for adding a dribble-drive threat, there wasn't any worthwhile FAs at the right price.

---

This.

The Warriors have to play somebody in the WCF and I'd think the Spurs would be the favorites for 2nd in West.

Hence why Durant going to Golden State is the biggest bitch move ever. A generational talent like him joining a historic team. No NBA team can make any moves to counter him going there.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...8ef9ce4516.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

The Warriors players didn't fear the Spurs... Who gives a shit?

Im sure they didn't fear Cleveland when they blew them out by 40 in the regular season. Still got smacked the fuck up when it mattered.

---

I agree with Lowe, the Spurs went from a 67 win team to one who will probably win about 55 games or so. Gasol is no Duncan and the Spurs bigman depth chart is razor thin now. If one of Gasol or Aldridge gets hurt for any length of time how are the Spurs responding to that? And they didn't upgrade Parker. Just the thought of Gasol's man screening for Curry while Parker is on him is hilarious. The Spurs went from a title contender to probably a distant 3 seed (thanks to OKC getting destroyed). I mean Gasol was the best option for sure, there was little chance of keeping the team as good as it was in 2015-16 considering how many players were on absolute bargain basement deals and eligible to test free agency in a summer where everyone had money. But this team isn't a title contender. They're not going to get much scoring out of the backcourt and they have no frontcourt depth. They'll be a good team but a second round exit to the Clippers or Warriors is probably what we're looking at next year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

What's funny is how many teams have absolutely hamstrung themselves by throwing good money after bad free agents. The Spurs went after the one guy who was worth a max deal, and then got Pau Gasol at about ten million dollars less than his market value. So they have two, maybe three all-stars in their starting lineup and they still have money to have a shot at a Russel Westbrook next summer.

Sounds like a winning plan to me.

---

Agree with your assessment for the most part. But next off-season Russ is headed to LA or possibly New York or even Miami before he would even consider SA. He is a wannabe fashionista who was born in SoCal and attended UCLA. With his non-basketball aspirations and style it is even less conceivable that Westchuck would come to he Spurs than it was that Durant would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The Spurs are an offseason loser because they lost a top three all-time player, but getting a guy who went for 16 points, 11 boards, 4 assists and 2 blocks last year to take his spot, the second biggest free agent, and the guy they wanted all along is a pretty decent consolation prize.

Also, that story about the Warriors not fearing the Spurs needs to die. That game taught the entire league how to beat the Dubs, and they never bothered to even look at the tape.

---

Nah. It may have shown some defensive strategies but not much more than that. The slow tempo approach the Spurs used against GS isn't the answer, you have to run right back at them. Being smart, not turnig the ball over but never slowing down. The whole "playing defense with the ball" strategy just isn't going to cut it. I thought that was the key to beating them, but after seeing how things played out last season I stand corrected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sasaint

Agree with your assessment for the most part. But next off-season Russ is headed to LA or possibly New York or even Miami before he would even consider SA. He is a wannabe fashionista who was born in SoCal and attended UCLA. With his non-basketball aspirations and style it is even less conceivable that Westchuck would come to he Spurs than it was that Durant would.

---

I don't even think they'd want Westbrook. The point is more that the Spurs got the player they wanted, did the best they could with their depth, got younger, and still have financial flexibility in the future.

I'll say this.If the Spurs ball movement slows to a screeching halt and we keep seeing more Kawhi-LMA iso ball, there's no way they get past the Warriors.

Either way, clearly the biggest loser is OKC. I don't know why Lowe wants to get all cute about this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 703 Spurz

Hence why Durant going to Golden State is the biggest bitch move ever. A generational talent like him joining a historic team. No NBA team can make any moves to counter him going there.

---

Anybody who tried to defend Durant going there will realize by all star break how much this fucked everything up. It's a cool story to right about in the offseason but the league is so fucked..especially if LeBron goes down. Like there's no interest around the league or competition

The only team that won in Free agency is GSW..tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAF86

Nah. It may have shown some defensive strategies but not much more than that. The slow tempo approach the Spurs used against GS isn't the answer, you have to run right back at them. Being smart, not turnig the ball over but never slowing down. The whole "playing defense with the ball" strategy just isn't going to cut it. I thought that was the key to beating them, but after seeing how things played out last season I stand corrected.

---

I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about, but it's a single defensive strategy that everyone else used: switching on picks. Nobody figured it out before the Spurs did. The Thunder were a pretty shit defensive team during the season and they were able to grind the Warriors' offense to a halt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I don't even think they'd want Westbrook. The point is more that the Spurs got the player they wanted, did the best they could with their depth, got younger, and still have financial flexibility in the future.

---

Totally agree. :toast I hope that Russ and the Clips hook up to bring the local boy home, and CP3 comes here.

It's strange Zach would take that stance considering he said on his podcast that the money flying around this offseason was going to haunt a lot of teams like the Lakers. I thought the Spurs played it safe and correctly. The Spurs had two choices this offseason:

1. Overpay for mid level prime players and bet that these mid level players will contribute enough to win a chip
2. Get older and undervalued players to play for reasonable contracts while betting drafted players will take advantage of playing time in a way the Spurs haven't allowed since the early 2000's.

I'm not suggesting KA, Murray, or Bertans will be Tony or Manu this year. What I am saying is Pop is going to have to play inexperience, he has no choice.

I think the Spurs had the best off season possible considering the talent available and the money required to sign that talent. If two of Murray, Bertans, or LCJ turn out to be legit role players the Spurs are going to have cap space in the coming years while those guys are on favorable deals.

The Spurs success starts and ends with Pop and the coaching staff. The Spurs used their cap space the best way they possibly could while keeping Tony Parker on the team. Zach doesn't offer any alternatives to the Spurs strategy, so it is hard to respect his position. Though he also calls the NBA and it's fans losers in this years free agency, which is true.

I'm excited to see which of the young guys step up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

I agree with Lowe, the Spurs went from a 67 win team to one who will probably win about 55 games or so. Gasol is no Duncan and the Spurs bigman depth chart is razor thin now. If one of Gasol or Aldridge gets hurt for any length of time how are the Spurs responding to that? And they didn't upgrade Parker. Just the thought of Gasol's man screening for Curry while Parker is on him is hilarious. The Spurs went from a title contender to probably a distant 3 seed (thanks to OKC getting destroyed). I mean Gasol was the best option for sure, there was little chance of keeping the team as good as it was in 2015-16 considering how many players were on absolute bargain basement deals and eligible to test free agency in a summer where everyone had money. But this team isn't a title contender. They're not going to get much scoring out of the backcourt and they have no frontcourt depth. They'll be a good team but a second round exit to the Clippers or Warriors is probably what we're looking at next year.

---

So you think Spurs were better off with a 40yr old Duncan, quitter in Diaw, and washed up West last year?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about, but it's a single defensive strategy that everyone else used: switching on picks. Nobody figured it out before the Spurs did. The Thunder were a pretty shit defensive team during the season and they were able to grind the Warriors' offense to a halt.

---

That defensive strategy alone doesn't beat the Warriors. You have to follow it up with a fast tempo offense that contains, at least, 4 three point shooting threats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sasaint

Totally agree. :toast I hope that Russ and the Clips hook up to bring the local boy home, and CP3 comes here.

---

We have more immediate shit to worry about. Like hoping someone from the youth movement steps up and becomes a real NBA player. If none of them do, it could be a long year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coachmac87

So you think Spurs were better off with a 40yr old Duncan, quitter in Diaw, and washed up West last year?

---

Yes, I think they were better last year than they will be this year. By a mile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

... Gasol is no Duncan and the Spurs bigman depth chart is razor thin now. ... They'll be a good team but a second round exit to the Clippers.

---

I went from going like, "Sure, sure. That's reasonable." To "Aw fuck no." over the course of your post. There's no reason at all to think the Clippers are above the Spurs. You want to talk about a lack of depth? Their current bench is Rivers/Crawford/Mbah a Moute/Pierce/Speights. Even ignoring age for them (which I'm sure you aren't ignoring for the Spurs), you have a draft bust who's being shamelessly riding on his father's gravy train, a chucker who can shoot his team out of a game, a guy whom I like a lot as a role-player but who is offensively limited, a guy who's been ineffective for a year now and a guy who played well for GS but is still a question mark as the main offensive player for his unit. Their starters are obviously really good, though it depends on Wes Johnson being a good 3-and-D guy. But they have their own health issues.

I understand that people don't want Parker to start. I'm not a fan of not getting another back-court scorer either. But he'll be fine so long as he continues to work on his three-pointer. I think the Spurs' bench matches up really well with the Clippers' second unit. And I think they're going to have a better starting unit this year.

YES!!!! Let it begin. This is EXACTLY what the Spurs need! They need all these writers to say that they are done. They need everyone to dismiss them. I was JUST talking about this with someone. When that happens is when the Spurs excel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAF86

That defensive strategy alone doesn't beat the Warriors. You have to follow it up with a fast tempo offense that contains, at least, 4 three point shooting threats.

---

But that doesn't matter. Prior to the strategy, nothing beat the Warriors. The Spurs exposed their Achilles heel. That's why the Dubs lost the same number of games in the playoffs as they did the entire regular season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 703 Spurz

Hence why Durant going to Golden State is the biggest bitch move ever. A generational talent like him joining a historic team. No NBA team can make any moves to counter him going there.

---

But no ones going to fear them even if they have another historic run because people see that their brand of b-ball isnt as effective in the postseason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

Yes, I think they were better last year than they will be this year. By a mile.

---

I think you're overrating Duncan, at least as far as straight on-the-court impact goes. They have a ton of potential to be better in the first unit, and I think their second unit is going to be MUCH better than last year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

Yes, I think they were better last year than they will be this year. By a mile.

---

It's a concern. Duncan's defense was really good up until about game 2 of the Thunder series when his knee completely stopped working. Gasol will improve the offense, and probably the rebounding. Maybe even block numbers, but I'll be really surprised if the defense doesn't fall off a lot without Timmy. Then you factor in the loss of reliable depth. A fat, uninterested Boris Diaw is more of an NBA player than LJC or Cady Lalanne.

I think you're crazy. Where is this improvement going to come from? A bunch of rookies? A washed up Gasol? No.

Spurs took a necessary step back with the retirement of TD, no matter how much of a nice get Gasol is.

But a bit of perspective is in order. Remember how circa 2009 and 2010 when everyone thought the Spurs would collapse when Timmy hung it up? That's not going to happen. Year 1 AD (After Duncan) will have us somewhere between the 2nd and fourth best team in the league. In the big picture that's pretty good.

Also, since OKC is not going to be a viable threat, even the though the Spurs may be a little worse on the court this year, they're likely to advance as far or farther. You can argue the road to the WCF has opened up, with the Clips and the Spurs battling to face the Dubs in conference championships. So we may win less in the regular season, yet very well may win more in the postseason.

And the youth movement is underway. KA will see a much bigger role this year. Simmons might too. And Bertans, JCL and Dedmon all bring youth to the bench. Time is now to develop them.

Again, going back to 2009, if you told me THIS is what the team would look like in AD 1, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SPURt

It's strange Zach would take that stance considering he said on his podcast that the money flying around this offseason was going to haunt a lot of teams like the Lakers. I thought the Spurs played it safe and correctly. The Spurs had two choices this offseason:

1. Overpay for mid level prime players and bet that these mid level players will contribute enough to win a chip
2. Get older and undervalued players to play for reasonable contracts while betting drafted players will take advantage of playing time in a way the Spurs haven't allowed since the early 2000's.

I'm not suggesting KA, Murray, or Bertans will be Tony or Manu this year. What I am saying is Pop is going to have to play inexperience, he has no choice.

I think the Spurs had the best off season possible considering the talent available and the money required to sign that talent. If two of Murray, Bertans, or LCJ turn out to be legit role players the Spurs are going to have cap space in the coming years while those guys are on favorable deals.

The Spurs success starts and ends with Pop and the coaching staff. The Spurs used their cap space the best way they possibly could while keeping Tony Parker on the team. Zach doesn't offer any alternatives to the Spurs strategy, so it is hard to respect his position. Though he also calls the NBA and it's fans losers in this years free agency, which is true.

I'm excited to see which of the young guys step up.

---

I agree with all of this. Further, Tony Parker being on the team is essential. There is NOBODY behind him that can be expected to bring the ball up, initiate the offense, and stay healthy. The bar is admittedly pretty damn low for Parker. :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

I think you're crazy. Where is this improvement going to come from? A bunch of rookies? A washed up Gasol? No.

---

I find it hilarious that people are calling Gasol washed up but acting like Tim wasn't. And we're talking about second- and third-year players leading the improvement charge. If you're trying to poopoo that, then I think you completely lack perspective on these last five years.

The Spurs need to find some 3 point shooting stat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elbamba

The Spurs need to find some 3 point shooting stat.

---

They've signed about the two-best three-point shooters they could along with getting a better three-point-shooting center, and having Anderson and Simmons work on improving their shots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Park

That's exactly right. Teams took the defensive template from that game, used it, and solved the Warriors. Oklahoma damn near beat em with it, hell a rebuilding Portland used it to win two damn games.cleveland finally fixed their rotations and used it to beat them three damn games in a row

---

Actually Lue's best and most important adjustment was putting Jefferson on Livingston. It just negated Livingston altogether. I remember us fans were calling Pop to put Anderson on him.

Also, I have been saying this, Curry and Klay are regular season players. When playoffs happen, teams get away with a lot more contact. It just wore them out. They were fighting through screens, getting bumped for the defense just to switch. Then, Curry in particular, danced with the ball to try and get a shot off. By the end, he just didn't have legs and a sore knee. Great template by Pop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SPURt

It's strange Zach would take that stance

---

First of all, he talks about conversations in the Warriors' locker room. Was he in the locker room? Doubtful, since he didn't report it before now. So he's gone and interviewed Warriors players after the fact? And they told him that they were never worried about the Spurs - after the fact? That's not a stance. That's getting down on your knees.

As for the Spurs free-agency this year - part of the cap bind they are in now is simply the price to be paid for winning #5. And Timmy was lost in December of last year, not this week.

So for all practical purposes, the Spurs started this season without Timmy, and without a lot of money to hire free agents. They picked up Pau Gasol and Dedmon, on their limited budget. We'll just have to wait and see which of their Euro players make the final cut. But until we see who is on the final roster, and how well they stack up, it's a little premature to say that they had a bad offseason.

After picking up Durant, the Dubs are an odds-on favorite to win the West, if not the whole thing. That's a given. So there are going to be a lot of second-rate "journalists" slobbering all over them. And why not? It's easy. One thing everyone needs to keep in mind - none of these jackasses were picking the Cavs to beat the Warriors this time last season. No matter how stacked the Warriors are, there's a reason they still play the games.

Oh, and fuck Zach Lowe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elbamba

The Spurs need to find some 3 point shooting stat.

---

Hopefully Bertans and Forbes can help in that regard.

Lowe's legit, especially as an analyst. I just think people are going to be looking at this off-season completely differently first in May and then again next July.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

Lowe's legit, especially as an analyst. I just think people are going to be looking at this off-season completely differently first in May and then again next July.

---

Calling the team "losers in free agency" implies that there were bad choices made. How the team performs next year isn't really relevant to their options now. So what did the Spurs not do that they could have done?

At this point, it's particularly stupid to treat the Warriors' 2017 title like a fait accompli. Any of you that do so going forward will be called on your ignorance of sports.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

Yes, I think they were better last year than they will be this year. By a mile.

---

Matching up with Warriors?? I don't see how that's possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Calling the team "losers in free agency" implies that there were bad choices made. How the team performs next year isn't really relevant to their options now. So what did the Spurs not do that they could have done?

---

I imagine that swapping out Eric Gordon and Boban for Gasol would have pleased Lowe quite a bit. I was one of those people who argued for better guard play, and it seems like the team is investing developmental resources in it instead of dollars. And it feels a bit too late for that. If you don't like Gasol -- and a lot of analytics guys don't -- then you're not going to give anyone credit for signing him as their main piece. I mean, who's patting Indiana on the back for getting Al Jefferson at such a reasonable deal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

But that doesn't matter. Prior to the strategy, nothing beat the Warriors. The Spurs exposed their Achilles heel. That's why the Dubs lost the same number of games in the playoffs as they did the entire regular season.

---

You said "that game showed how to beat GS" and it didn't, because if that was the case teams would have beaten them playing a slow paced offense which is the kind of offense that the Spurs used on that game. When, in fact, the key to beating them was doing the complete opposite.

The defensive strategy is nice and all but it's only half the battle. Besides, you are making it seem like the Spurs tried some novel stuff that nobody else thought about. Many teams tried the same "switch all" strategy before and after that game and they got anally raped because they didn't have the discipline nor the talent that some elite teams have (nor the playoffs intensity either).

So, no. That game didn't show how to beat GS, imho.

I am looking forward to see how Pop integrates Gasol in the starting lineup. One thing Pop does great in, is changing his style and get the most out of his team. We went from a slow down, defensive juggernaut, to a fast pace, average defensive team. To the beautiful game. To the slow down, post up, wall defense game. Now we are going big. 2 7fts, and a 6'11 guy. More spacing with Gasol, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

They've signed about the two-best three-point shooters they could along with getting a better three-point-shooting center, and having Anderson and Simmons work on improving their shots.

---

I was not sure if they actually signed them or if it was just for summer league. That was one of the big things I felt we lost last year with Marco leaving and Danny having a down year.

Zach Hoe at this time last year:

Quote:

---

Prediction #13. Spurs Disappoint.

The Spurs could be special, and I’m optimistic about the LaMarcus Aldridge fit — even if some folks in rival front offices and coaching staffs remain skeptical. The other stuff worries me: Tony Parker’s decline, and that so many key contributors around the Aldridge-Leonard–Danny Green foundation are 33 and older. Tim Duncan isn’t going to play like this until he’s 45.
If the Spurs stay healthy, they could round into championship form in May and June. But the interim could be rockier than expected.

---

:wakeup

so what? We were winners of last offseason and how did that work out for us?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAF86

You said "that game showed how to beat GS" and it didn't, because if that was the case teams would have beaten them playing a slow paced offense which is the kind of offense that the Spurs used on that game. When, in fact, the key to beating them was doing the complete opposite.

The defensive strategy is nice and all but it's only half the battle. Besides, you are making it seem like the Spurs tried to some novel stuff that nobody else thought about. Many teams tried the same "switch all" strategy before and after that game and they got anally raped because they didn't have the discipline nor the talent that some elite teams have (nor the playoffs intensity either).

So, no. That game didn't show how to beat GS, imho.

---

Um, no. The Spurs were the first team to do it, they won the game, and because the Spurs' offense happened to be poor in that game, the Warriors did like you did and wrote it off as a fluke. The reality was in the playoffs when everyone that beat the Warriors used that defensive strategy to slow down their offense. Take away their quick flashes to the basket and they're reduced to a jump shooting team. If you don't do that, it doesn't matter how flashy your offense is because you can't outscore them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I agree with all of this. Further, Tony Parker being on the team is essential. There is NOBODY behind him that can be expected to bring the ball up, initiate the offense, and stay healthy. The bar is admittedly pretty damn low for Parker. :lol

---

This is very true especially considering the price of Jeremy Lin and Tyler Johnson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Zach Hoe at this time last year:



:wakeup

---

He was right about some stuff there though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

I find it hilarious that people are calling Gasol washed up but acting like Tim wasn't. And we're talking about second- and third-year players leading the improvement charge. If you're trying to poopoo that, then I think you completely lack perspective on these last five years.

---

Totally agree. People are comparing Gasol and Duncan's careers and not recent play. Yes I know Gasol isn't the defender that Duncan was at 40..or maybe he is? Gasol never got go play with 2 elite perimeter defenders and a long body in LMA. Gasol will put up 15/9/1.5 with his eyes closed next year IMO.

And like I said in OP Diaw/West combo was terrible and made Duncan look waaaaaay better defensively..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by look_at_g_shred

so what? We were winners of last offseason and how did that work out for us?

---

Amazingly well. A historic 67-win season, a historic 40-1 home record. Kawhi was 2nd in MVP voting. LMA made significant progress in adjusting to the team and vice versa. Set the Spurs up for 2-4 years of legit title contention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

Just the thought of Gasol's man screening for Curry while Parker is on him is hilarious.

---

Just like Tim being unplayable against the Duds last season or D-Worst getting a train run on him at the rim by Livingston/Ezeli.:lol

Again, the Spurs aren't contending for a championship until Porker gets traded or demoted to the bench which could happen in 2017 if PATFO can land Chris Paul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

The Warriors players didn't fear the Spurs... Who gives a shit?

Im sure they didn't fear Cleveland when they blew them out by 40 in the regular season. Still got smacked the fuck up when it mattered.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Um, no. The Spurs were the first team to do it, they won the game, and because the Spurs' offense happened to be poor in that game, the Warriors did like you did and wrote it off as a fluke. The reality was in the playoffs when everyone that beat the Warriors used that defensive strategy to slow down their offense. Take away their quick flashes to the basket and they're reduced to a jump shooting team. If you don't do that, it doesn't matter how flashy your offense is because you can't outscore them.

---

Yes they did son. Just because it didn't turn out as good as it did for the Spurs on that game it doesn't mean they didn't. Heck, that same strategy was used by the Spurs and Clippers against the Warriors in the '13 and '14 playoffs respectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

Lowe's legit, especially as an analyst. I just think people are going to be looking at this off-season completely differently first in May and then again next July.

---

LOL... well isn't that what analysts are for? Figuring it out up front, instead of in hindsight? LOL... let me analyze last season, and I'll look like a damn genius.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

We have more immediate shit to worry about. Like hoping someone from the youth movement steps up and becomes a real NBA player. If none of them do, it could be a long year.

---

Actually, I should have posted a more complete thought. I thought the conversation was about next off-season when CP3 and Russ are FAs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baseline bum

I agree with Lowe, the Spurs went from a 67 win team to one who will probably win about 55 games or so. Gasol is no Duncan and the Spurs bigman depth chart is razor thin now. If one of Gasol or Aldridge gets hurt for any length of time how are the Spurs responding to that? And they didn't upgrade Parker. Just the thought of Gasol's man screening for Curry while Parker is on him is hilarious. The Spurs went from a title contender to probably a distant 3 seed (thanks to OKC getting destroyed). I mean Gasol was the best option for sure, there was little chance of keeping the team as good as it was in 2015-16 considering how many players were on absolute bargain basement deals and eligible to test free agency in a summer where everyone had money. But this team isn't a title contender. They're not going to get much scoring out of the backcourt and they have no frontcourt depth. They'll be a good team but a second round exit to the Clippers or Warriors is probably what we're looking at next year.

---

The team with the best talent doesn't always win. Remember the 03 Spurs? That team had a hobbled DRob, prime Duncan, young TP who had to be saved by backup PGs, and other newbies and we won it all. And there were good teams that year like the Mass that were better on paper.

Also if you want to look at some teams that had great depth but lost look no further than the clippers of the past 3 years, the pistons in 05-07, the nets when the Russian dude spent all that drug money etc. It guarantees nothing. I mean the Warriors won 73 games and had a ridiculous roster, and still have up a 3-1 lead and lost game 7 at home. Lol.

That take is so bad it's not even worth picking apart.

Let's start the season already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Calling the team "losers in free agency" implies that there were bad choices made. How the team performs next year isn't really relevant to their options now. So what did the Spurs not do that they could have done?

---

Improving the starting back court for one, and the Diaw trade, especially when he was entering a contract-season, can easily backfire. Also, while it wasn't a decision of the organization, Tim hanging them up also go into the "lose" column for the Spurs team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robz4000

He's right tbh. The Spurs lost Tim. That automatically makes them the biggest losers of the offseason.

---

Only for sentimental reasons. On paper, they're worse because for the upteenth year in a row, the Spurs didn't address their offseaon needs. They still don't have a penetrating guard that can breakdown the defense and they lack any kind of three point depth. And losing a Duncan/Diaw/Boban/West and gaining a Gasol doesn't make you better. You might gain a few points per game from the starting lineup but you lose a ton of depth. This was never about missing out on Durant because he was never coming here to begin with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sasaint

Actually, I should have posted a more complete thought. I thought the conversation was about next off-season when CP3 and Russ are FAs.

---

I don't think I misunderstood you, and didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing. They're good points, and having flexibility for next year is great, but as fans we're all hoping some of these kids grow up fast. That's all I was saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAF86

He was right about some stuff there though.

---

It doesn't take a genius to sight "health issues" as being a deal breaker after what took place in 2015. The addition of LMA had nothing to do w/ it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tbdog

I am looking forward to see how Pop integrates Gasol in the starting lineup. One thing Pop does great in, is changing his style and get the most out of his team. We went from a slow down, defensive juggernaut, to a fast pace, average defensive team. To the beautiful game. To the slow down, post up, wall defense game. Now we are going big. 2 7fts, and a 6'11 guy. More spacing with Gasol, etc.

---

High Post/Elbows. Gasol will make the offense flow a lot better than with Duncan who became a liability who couldn't do anything on the offensive end

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

Improving the starting back court for one, and the Diaw trade, especially when he was entering a contract-season, can easily backfire. Also, while it wasn't a decision of the organization, Tim hanging them up also go into the "lose" column for the Spurs team.

---

No, you can't just give me generic responses. That's the kind of shit idiots do so they can say "see I told you so" when the Spurs don't win it all. The Spurs' FO knows as well as you or I do where the team's weaknesses are, and losing Duncan was pretty fucking huge, and Gasol is a pretty fucking huge band-aid on that. Plus he was a bargain. The reality is that the Spurs traded a guy that we were all pretty sure Pop was going to release to free up the money to sign Pau, plus they got a prospect in return that could help the back court. If you have a better plan, share it in detail.

Someone said Eric Gordon and Boban instead of Gasol would have been a better solution. I happen to disagree, but at least it's specific.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

I went from going like, "Sure, sure. That's reasonable." To "Aw fuck no." over the course of your post. There's no reason at all to think the Clippers are above the Spurs.

---

Basically, the Pau/LMA frontline means that Blake has to check one of them in the post which isn't his forte (he's worse than Ibaka::lol) & can get him in foul trouble. Chris Paul has been murdering Tim on PnRs so it's going to be more of the same with Pau basically sagging in the paint to prevent the DeAndre lobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

It doesn't take a genius to sight "health issues" as being a deal breaker after what took place in 2015. The addition of LMA had nothing to do w/ it.

---

Agree. He said they'd round into form, which is the opposite of what happened. Everyone knew the Spurs were likely to crash and burn once Duncan's other knee went.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SPURt

It's strange Zach would take that stance considering he said on his podcast that the money flying around this offseason was going to haunt a lot of teams like the Lakers. I thought the Spurs played it safe and correctly. The Spurs had two choices this offseason:

1. Overpay for mid level prime players and bet that these mid level players will contribute enough to win a chip
2. Get older and undervalued players to play for reasonable contracts while betting drafted players will take advantage of playing time in a way the Spurs haven't allowed since the early 2000's.

I'm not suggesting KA, Murray, or Bertans will be Tony or Manu this year. What I am saying is Pop is going to have to play inexperience, he has no choice.

I think the Spurs had the best off season possible considering the talent available and the money required to sign that talent. If two of Murray, Bertans, or LCJ turn out to be legit role players the Spurs are going to have cap space in the coming years while those guys are on favorable deals.

The Spurs success starts and ends with Pop and the coaching staff. The Spurs used their cap space the best way they possibly could while keeping Tony Parker on the team. Zach doesn't offer any alternatives to the Spurs strategy, so it is hard to respect his position. Though he also calls the NBA and it's fans losers in this years free agency, which is true.

I'm excited to see which of the young guys step up.

---

I agree. It's scary to think that the fate of the season, how good the team can be compared to last season depends on Tony holding up, and Anderson, Simmons or Bertans becoming quality NBA players and Murray developing into the quick stepping guard they need with better decision making. It may not all come together this season as Murray is just so young and raw and there are question marks for all of the other three but at least two already played in the NBA and had relatively good seasons viewed in context, and Bertans is a specialist with a translatable skill.

Maybe it's not evident this season that the moves they made were the best possible moves, all things considered, but a few years ago, the Spurs had a very young Kawhi, Danny, Cojo, a young Mills and a lot of question marks too.

Next season they have cap for a FA, while they also have developed depth and young players in bargain contracts. It's as much about playing the long game as the short game. Yes in the immediate future they lost depth (Boban, Diaw, D west, TD) but they were not going to go much farther than they got with that depth and that team had no upside as it was, (if anything, there were possibilities for further decline), save Boban.

Considering that Timmy retired, they did as well as they could have hoped and they are still a very good team. It's not like we went down to fringe playoff team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GSH

LOL... well isn't that what analysts are for? Figuring it out up front, instead of in hindsight? LOL... let me analyze last season, and I'll look like a damn genius.

---

Actually, I disagree. I think predictive analysis is largely shit. Half of it is stats which don't track particularly well, while the other half is just stating obvious things. I think analysis is much better for determining why things happened the way they did. I much prefer the clarity of past analysis over the guess-work of future analysis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

It doesn't take a genius to sight "health issues" as being a deal breaker after what took place in 2015. The addition of LMA had nothing to do w/ it.

---

I'm talking about other things like Aldridge being a good fit (he is, despite whatever troll job someone would like to make), Parker's decline, Duncan's decline and the role players not producing as expected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAF86

I'm talking about other things like Aldridge being a good fit (he is, despite whatever troll job someone would like to make), Parker's decline, Duncan's decline and the role players not producing as expected.

---

If that's the case then why is 67 wins & 2nd rd exit a disappointment when Porker was coming off an all-time atrocious series in 2015? (Manu was also benched against the Cripples)

Were they expected to improve with age?:lol (It was LMA or bust & lets just say he blew his load in Gm 1/2)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

If that's the case then why is 67 wins & 2nd rd exit a disappointment when Porker was coming off an all-time atrocious series in 2015? (Manu was also benched against the Cripples)

---

Did I say he was right on everything or just "some stuff"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

No, you can't just give me generic responses. That's the kind of shit idiots do so they can say "see I told you so" when the Spurs don't win it all. The Spurs' FO knows as well as you or I do where the team's weaknesses are, and losing Duncan was pretty fucking huge, and Gasol is a pretty fucking huge band-aid on that. Plus he was a bargain. The reality is that the Spurs traded a guy that we were all pretty sure Pop was going to release to free up the money to sign Pau, plus they got a prospect in return that could help the back court. If you have a better plan, share it in detail.

Someone said Eric Gordon and Boban instead of Gasol would have been a better solution. I happen to disagree, but at least it's specific.

---

It's an opinion piece, there's no "facts" here to make them non-generic responses. Neither by Lowe or anybody else. Only time will tell if he was right or not. Those areas I pointed out are areas everybody is well aware of that we've been lacking.

For example, we as Spursfans know that TP and Manu are treated like family by the Spurs org, and they'll likely stay for as long as they want. But an outside observer doesn't have to adhere to that. On a league with Curry, Westbrook, CP3, Irving, etc it's hard to argue that the Spurs are at a disadvantage at the starting PG position. The fact that they apparently aren't even looking to upgrade that position (due to what I pointed out earlier) should be tacked in the "loss" column. We have no fallback also if Danny Green has another shitty shooting season. Losing Diaw on a contract year, on the other hand, is very factual. Will it be the right decision or not? Only time will tell. Boris is a guy that went from terrible to amazing to terrible in the span of three-four seasons.

That doesn't mean the Pau pickup wasn't great and hopefully offset quite a bit losing TD. But he's looking at the overall, and there's no doubt that there's some areas that were concerning from last season (and perhaps even previously to that) that weren't addressed. Due to money reasons or whatever other reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

I find it hilarious that people are calling Gasol washed up but acting like Tim wasn't. And we're talking about second- and third-year players leading the improvement charge. If you're trying to poopoo that, then I think you completely lack perspective on these last five years.

---

Duncan was better than Gasol last year, sorry. Even last year, he was the number two reason the Spurs had a historic defense. I don't have much confidence in Anderson or Simmons being difference makers. They dominated summer league because they were among the oldest and most experienced guys there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DAF86

Did I say he was right on everything or just "some stuff"?

---

The stuff you sighted was what had ACTUALLY already happened in 2015 & should have been accounted for without even mentioning.:lol (It would be like saying the Spurs will disappoint next season if Porker isn't worthy of being a starter on a contender)

The Rockets were supposed to be the Duds main roadblock last season but the narrative changed when the Spurs won 67 games. Basically, the Spurs actually OVERACHIEVED or at least hit their ceiling. (Zach Hoe wasn't expecting Kawhi to finish 2nd in MVP)

Softridge was an upgrade over Shitter & Pau will be an upgrade over post-injury Tim. Saying the addition of Pau means the Spurs regressed is ludicrous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I don't think I misunderstood you, and didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing. They're good points, and having flexibility for next year is great, but as fans we're all hoping some of these kids grow up fast. That's all I was saying.

---

I have been more impressed with Dijon than I expected. I am not sure whether he will become a true PG or whether he will be more of a combo guard who can give some good minutes at the point. Regardless, I think he is a project that will take more than this season and next to be a big contributor on a team that (hopefully) competes for a chip. Plus, TP would have to go. So, after next off-season, my ideal PG rotation would be Paul/Dijon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

It's an opinion piece, there's no "facts" here to make them non-generic responses. Neither by Lowe or anybody else. Only time will tell if he was right or not. Those areas I pointed out are areas everybody is well aware of that we've been lacking.

For example, we as Spursfans know that TP and Manu are treated like family by the Spurs org, and they'll likely stay for as long as they want. But an outside observer doesn't have to adhere to that. On a league with Curry, Westbrook, CP3, Irving, etc it's hard to argue that the Spurs are at a disadvantage at the starting PG position. The fact that they apparently aren't even looking to upgrade that position (due to what I pointed out earlier) should be tacked in the "loss" column. We have no fallback also if Danny Green has another shitty shooting season. Losing Diaw on a contract year, on the other hand, is very factual. Will it be the right decision or not? Only time will tell. Boris is a guy that went from terrible to amazing to terrible in the span of three-four seasons.

That doesn't mean the Pau pickup wasn't great and hopefully offset quite a bit losing TD. But he's looking at the overall, and there's no doubt that there's some areas that were concerning from last season (and perhaps even previously to that) that weren't addressed. Due to money reasons or whatever other reason.

---

A lot of teams don't have full back plans for their core players. Green is our core player. He is our starter. Behind him is Manu and Simmons. That is all we can afford and give.

Calling the Spurs losers in Free Agency is a stretch and seems like an attempt to click bait, tbh..however, Lowe is correct about their flaws, and it's difficult to be encouraged about contending when they still don't have a dynamic guard on the roster..

They certainly have a puncher's chance(this year's Cavs were probably the 4th best team in the NBA, for example), but they would need a lot of breaks to go in their favor..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

Actually, I disagree. I think predictive analysis is largely shit. Half of it is stats which don't track particularly well, while the other half is just stating obvious things. I think analysis is much better for determining why things happened the way they did. I much prefer the clarity of past analysis over the guess-work of future analysis.

---

I'm too subtle for my own good sometimes. Look, Lowe is making predictive analysis by saying that the Spurs' offseason moves won't be good for them. (As if they had better options, after Durant went west.) Isn't it hard to be "legit" when you're doing something that is, by definition, shit?

For the most part, these guys just throw a lot of poop at the wall, and come back after the season to crow about the parts that stuck. When you've got a team as stacked as Golden State is this year, it's easy for them to just bandwagon. That's not analysis. It's just picking the wall that looks the stickiest to throw their poop on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

It's an opinion piece, there's no "facts" here to make them non-generic responses. Neither by Lowe or anybody else. Only time will tell if he was right or not. Those areas I pointed out are areas everybody is well aware of that we've been lacking.

---

That's my point. Jumping on the Golden State bandwagon is pretty much a no-brainer. But it's a cop-out. I think the Spurs have done damn well in free agency, giving what they had to work with. So much so that I would call it a win. If he's trying to say that GS has more raw talent than the Spurs, well duh. But saying that they are losers in free agency? I'd like to hear his plan for how they could have done better.

Losers every time that Parker contract is a part of the cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

The stuff you sighted was what had ACTUALLY already happened in 2015 & should have been accounted for without even mentioning.:lol

The Rockets were supposed to be the Duds main roadblock last season but the narrative changed when the Spurs won 67 games. Basically, the Spurs actually OVERACHIEVED or at least hit their ceiling. (Zach Hoe wasn't expecting Kawhi to finish 2nd in MVP)

---

I don't know what he expected son. I'm just saying that that quote you posted of him isn't some completely laughable horrible prediction, tbh.