Zach Lowe: Spurs losers in Free Agency

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

We have more immediate shit to worry about. Like hoping someone from the youth movement steps up and becomes a real NBA player. If none of them do, it could be a long year.

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Actually, I should have posted a more complete thought. I thought the conversation was about next off-season when CP3 and Russ are FAs.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

I agree with Lowe, the Spurs went from a 67 win team to one who will probably win about 55 games or so. Gasol is no Duncan and the Spurs bigman depth chart is razor thin now. If one of Gasol or Aldridge gets hurt for any length of time how are the Spurs responding to that? And they didn't upgrade Parker. Just the thought of Gasol's man screening for Curry while Parker is on him is hilarious. The Spurs went from a title contender to probably a distant 3 seed (thanks to OKC getting destroyed). I mean Gasol was the best option for sure, there was little chance of keeping the team as good as it was in 2015-16 considering how many players were on absolute bargain basement deals and eligible to test free agency in a summer where everyone had money. But this team isn't a title contender. They're not going to get much scoring out of the backcourt and they have no frontcourt depth. They'll be a good team but a second round exit to the Clippers or Warriors is probably what we're looking at next year.

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The team with the best talent doesn't always win. Remember the 03 Spurs? That team had a hobbled DRob, prime Duncan, young TP who had to be saved by backup PGs, and other newbies and we won it all. And there were good teams that year like the Mass that were better on paper.

Also if you want to look at some teams that had great depth but lost look no further than the clippers of the past 3 years, the pistons in 05-07, the nets when the Russian dude spent all that drug money etc. It guarantees nothing. I mean the Warriors won 73 games and had a ridiculous roster, and still have up a 3-1 lead and lost game 7 at home. Lol.

That take is so bad it's not even worth picking apart.

Let's start the season already.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Calling the team "losers in free agency" implies that there were bad choices made. How the team performs next year isn't really relevant to their options now. So what did the Spurs not do that they could have done?

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Improving the starting back court for one, and the Diaw trade, especially when he was entering a contract-season, can easily backfire. Also, while it wasn't a decision of the organization, Tim hanging them up also go into the "lose" column for the Spurs team.

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

He's right tbh. The Spurs lost Tim. That automatically makes them the biggest losers of the offseason.

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Only for sentimental reasons. On paper, they're worse because for the upteenth year in a row, the Spurs didn't address their offseaon needs. They still don't have a penetrating guard that can breakdown the defense and they lack any kind of three point depth. And losing a Duncan/Diaw/Boban/West and gaining a Gasol doesn't make you better. You might gain a few points per game from the starting lineup but you lose a ton of depth. This was never about missing out on Durant because he was never coming here to begin with.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Actually, I should have posted a more complete thought. I thought the conversation was about next off-season when CP3 and Russ are FAs.

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I don't think I misunderstood you, and didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing. They're good points, and having flexibility for next year is great, but as fans we're all hoping some of these kids grow up fast. That's all I was saying.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

He was right about some stuff there though.

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It doesn't take a genius to sight "health issues" as being a deal breaker after what took place in 2015. The addition of LMA had nothing to do w/ it.

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Originally Posted by tbdog

I am looking forward to see how Pop integrates Gasol in the starting lineup. One thing Pop does great in, is changing his style and get the most out of his team. We went from a slow down, defensive juggernaut, to a fast pace, average defensive team. To the beautiful game. To the slow down, post up, wall defense game. Now we are going big. 2 7fts, and a 6'11 guy. More spacing with Gasol, etc.

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High Post/Elbows. Gasol will make the offense flow a lot better than with Duncan who became a liability who couldn't do anything on the offensive end

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Improving the starting back court for one, and the Diaw trade, especially when he was entering a contract-season, can easily backfire. Also, while it wasn't a decision of the organization, Tim hanging them up also go into the "lose" column for the Spurs team.

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No, you can't just give me generic responses. That's the kind of shit idiots do so they can say "see I told you so" when the Spurs don't win it all. The Spurs' FO knows as well as you or I do where the team's weaknesses are, and losing Duncan was pretty fucking huge, and Gasol is a pretty fucking huge band-aid on that. Plus he was a bargain. The reality is that the Spurs traded a guy that we were all pretty sure Pop was going to release to free up the money to sign Pau, plus they got a prospect in return that could help the back court. If you have a better plan, share it in detail.

Someone said Eric Gordon and Boban instead of Gasol would have been a better solution. I happen to disagree, but at least it's specific.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I went from going like, "Sure, sure. That's reasonable." To "Aw fuck no." over the course of your post. There's no reason at all to think the Clippers are above the Spurs.

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Basically, the Pau/LMA frontline means that Blake has to check one of them in the post which isn't his forte (he's worse than Ibaka::lol) & can get him in foul trouble. Chris Paul has been murdering Tim on PnRs so it's going to be more of the same with Pau basically sagging in the paint to prevent the DeAndre lobs.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

It doesn't take a genius to sight "health issues" as being a deal breaker after what took place in 2015. The addition of LMA had nothing to do w/ it.

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Agree. He said they'd round into form, which is the opposite of what happened. Everyone knew the Spurs were likely to crash and burn once Duncan's other knee went.

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Originally Posted by SPURt

It's strange Zach would take that stance considering he said on his podcast that the money flying around this offseason was going to haunt a lot of teams like the Lakers. I thought the Spurs played it safe and correctly. The Spurs had two choices this offseason:

1. Overpay for mid level prime players and bet that these mid level players will contribute enough to win a chip
2. Get older and undervalued players to play for reasonable contracts while betting drafted players will take advantage of playing time in a way the Spurs haven't allowed since the early 2000's.

I'm not suggesting KA, Murray, or Bertans will be Tony or Manu this year. What I am saying is Pop is going to have to play inexperience, he has no choice.

I think the Spurs had the best off season possible considering the talent available and the money required to sign that talent. If two of Murray, Bertans, or LCJ turn out to be legit role players the Spurs are going to have cap space in the coming years while those guys are on favorable deals.

The Spurs success starts and ends with Pop and the coaching staff. The Spurs used their cap space the best way they possibly could while keeping Tony Parker on the team. Zach doesn't offer any alternatives to the Spurs strategy, so it is hard to respect his position. Though he also calls the NBA and it's fans losers in this years free agency, which is true.

I'm excited to see which of the young guys step up.

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I agree. It's scary to think that the fate of the season, how good the team can be compared to last season depends on Tony holding up, and Anderson, Simmons or Bertans becoming quality NBA players and Murray developing into the quick stepping guard they need with better decision making. It may not all come together this season as Murray is just so young and raw and there are question marks for all of the other three but at least two already played in the NBA and had relatively good seasons viewed in context, and Bertans is a specialist with a translatable skill.

Maybe it's not evident this season that the moves they made were the best possible moves, all things considered, but a few years ago, the Spurs had a very young Kawhi, Danny, Cojo, a young Mills and a lot of question marks too.

Next season they have cap for a FA, while they also have developed depth and young players in bargain contracts. It's as much about playing the long game as the short game. Yes in the immediate future they lost depth (Boban, Diaw, D west, TD) but they were not going to go much farther than they got with that depth and that team had no upside as it was, (if anything, there were possibilities for further decline), save Boban.

Considering that Timmy retired, they did as well as they could have hoped and they are still a very good team. It's not like we went down to fringe playoff team.

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Originally Posted by GSH

LOL... well isn't that what analysts are for? Figuring it out up front, instead of in hindsight? LOL... let me analyze last season, and I'll look like a damn genius.

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Actually, I disagree. I think predictive analysis is largely shit. Half of it is stats which don't track particularly well, while the other half is just stating obvious things. I think analysis is much better for determining why things happened the way they did. I much prefer the clarity of past analysis over the guess-work of future analysis.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

It doesn't take a genius to sight "health issues" as being a deal breaker after what took place in 2015. The addition of LMA had nothing to do w/ it.

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I'm talking about other things like Aldridge being a good fit (he is, despite whatever troll job someone would like to make), Parker's decline, Duncan's decline and the role players not producing as expected.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

I'm talking about other things like Aldridge being a good fit (he is, despite whatever troll job someone would like to make), Parker's decline, Duncan's decline and the role players not producing as expected.

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If that's the case then why is 67 wins & 2nd rd exit a disappointment when Porker was coming off an all-time atrocious series in 2015? (Manu was also benched against the Cripples)

Were they expected to improve with age?:lol (It was LMA or bust & lets just say he blew his load in Gm 1/2)

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

If that's the case then why is 67 wins & 2nd rd exit a disappointment when Porker was coming off an all-time atrocious series in 2015? (Manu was also benched against the Cripples)

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Did I say he was right on everything or just "some stuff"?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

No, you can't just give me generic responses. That's the kind of shit idiots do so they can say "see I told you so" when the Spurs don't win it all. The Spurs' FO knows as well as you or I do where the team's weaknesses are, and losing Duncan was pretty fucking huge, and Gasol is a pretty fucking huge band-aid on that. Plus he was a bargain. The reality is that the Spurs traded a guy that we were all pretty sure Pop was going to release to free up the money to sign Pau, plus they got a prospect in return that could help the back court. If you have a better plan, share it in detail.

Someone said Eric Gordon and Boban instead of Gasol would have been a better solution. I happen to disagree, but at least it's specific.

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It's an opinion piece, there's no "facts" here to make them non-generic responses. Neither by Lowe or anybody else. Only time will tell if he was right or not. Those areas I pointed out are areas everybody is well aware of that we've been lacking.

For example, we as Spursfans know that TP and Manu are treated like family by the Spurs org, and they'll likely stay for as long as they want. But an outside observer doesn't have to adhere to that. On a league with Curry, Westbrook, CP3, Irving, etc it's hard to argue that the Spurs are at a disadvantage at the starting PG position. The fact that they apparently aren't even looking to upgrade that position (due to what I pointed out earlier) should be tacked in the "loss" column. We have no fallback also if Danny Green has another shitty shooting season. Losing Diaw on a contract year, on the other hand, is very factual. Will it be the right decision or not? Only time will tell. Boris is a guy that went from terrible to amazing to terrible in the span of three-four seasons.

That doesn't mean the Pau pickup wasn't great and hopefully offset quite a bit losing TD. But he's looking at the overall, and there's no doubt that there's some areas that were concerning from last season (and perhaps even previously to that) that weren't addressed. Due to money reasons or whatever other reason.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I find it hilarious that people are calling Gasol washed up but acting like Tim wasn't. And we're talking about second- and third-year players leading the improvement charge. If you're trying to poopoo that, then I think you completely lack perspective on these last five years.

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Duncan was better than Gasol last year, sorry. Even last year, he was the number two reason the Spurs had a historic defense. I don't have much confidence in Anderson or Simmons being difference makers. They dominated summer league because they were among the oldest and most experienced guys there.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Did I say he was right on everything or just "some stuff"?

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The stuff you sighted was what had ACTUALLY already happened in 2015 & should have been accounted for without even mentioning.:lol (It would be like saying the Spurs will disappoint next season if Porker isn't worthy of being a starter on a contender)

The Rockets were supposed to be the Duds main roadblock last season but the narrative changed when the Spurs won 67 games. Basically, the Spurs actually OVERACHIEVED or at least hit their ceiling. (Zach Hoe wasn't expecting Kawhi to finish 2nd in MVP)

Softridge was an upgrade over Shitter & Pau will be an upgrade over post-injury Tim. Saying the addition of Pau means the Spurs regressed is ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I don't think I misunderstood you, and didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing. They're good points, and having flexibility for next year is great, but as fans we're all hoping some of these kids grow up fast. That's all I was saying.

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I have been more impressed with Dijon than I expected. I am not sure whether he will become a true PG or whether he will be more of a combo guard who can give some good minutes at the point. Regardless, I think he is a project that will take more than this season and next to be a big contributor on a team that (hopefully) competes for a chip. Plus, TP would have to go. So, after next off-season, my ideal PG rotation would be Paul/Dijon.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

It's an opinion piece, there's no "facts" here to make them non-generic responses. Neither by Lowe or anybody else. Only time will tell if he was right or not. Those areas I pointed out are areas everybody is well aware of that we've been lacking.

For example, we as Spursfans know that TP and Manu are treated like family by the Spurs org, and they'll likely stay for as long as they want. But an outside observer doesn't have to adhere to that. On a league with Curry, Westbrook, CP3, Irving, etc it's hard to argue that the Spurs are at a disadvantage at the starting PG position. The fact that they apparently aren't even looking to upgrade that position (due to what I pointed out earlier) should be tacked in the "loss" column. We have no fallback also if Danny Green has another shitty shooting season. Losing Diaw on a contract year, on the other hand, is very factual. Will it be the right decision or not? Only time will tell. Boris is a guy that went from terrible to amazing to terrible in the span of three-four seasons.

That doesn't mean the Pau pickup wasn't great and hopefully offset quite a bit losing TD. But he's looking at the overall, and there's no doubt that there's some areas that were concerning from last season (and perhaps even previously to that) that weren't addressed. Due to money reasons or whatever other reason.

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A lot of teams don't have full back plans for their core players. Green is our core player. He is our starter. Behind him is Manu and Simmons. That is all we can afford and give.

Calling the Spurs losers in Free Agency is a stretch and seems like an attempt to click bait, tbh..however, Lowe is correct about their flaws, and it's difficult to be encouraged about contending when they still don't have a dynamic guard on the roster..

They certainly have a puncher's chance(this year's Cavs were probably the 4th best team in the NBA, for example), but they would need a lot of breaks to go in their favor..

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Actually, I disagree. I think predictive analysis is largely shit. Half of it is stats which don't track particularly well, while the other half is just stating obvious things. I think analysis is much better for determining why things happened the way they did. I much prefer the clarity of past analysis over the guess-work of future analysis.

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I'm too subtle for my own good sometimes. Look, Lowe is making predictive analysis by saying that the Spurs' offseason moves won't be good for them. (As if they had better options, after Durant went west.) Isn't it hard to be "legit" when you're doing something that is, by definition, shit?

For the most part, these guys just throw a lot of poop at the wall, and come back after the season to crow about the parts that stuck. When you've got a team as stacked as Golden State is this year, it's easy for them to just bandwagon. That's not analysis. It's just picking the wall that looks the stickiest to throw their poop on.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

It's an opinion piece, there's no "facts" here to make them non-generic responses. Neither by Lowe or anybody else. Only time will tell if he was right or not. Those areas I pointed out are areas everybody is well aware of that we've been lacking.

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That's my point. Jumping on the Golden State bandwagon is pretty much a no-brainer. But it's a cop-out. I think the Spurs have done damn well in free agency, giving what they had to work with. So much so that I would call it a win. If he's trying to say that GS has more raw talent than the Spurs, well duh. But saying that they are losers in free agency? I'd like to hear his plan for how they could have done better.

Losers every time that Parker contract is a part of the cap.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

The stuff you sighted was what had ACTUALLY already happened in 2015 & should have been accounted for without even mentioning.:lol

The Rockets were supposed to be the Duds main roadblock last season but the narrative changed when the Spurs won 67 games. Basically, the Spurs actually OVERACHIEVED or at least hit their ceiling. (Zach Hoe wasn't expecting Kawhi to finish 2nd in MVP)

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I don't know what he expected son. I'm just saying that that quote you posted of him isn't some completely laughable horrible prediction, tbh.