Article: Ginobili heard all summer how he should have been finals MVP

Ginobili heard all summer how he should have been finals MVP

By CHRIS SHERIDAN, AP Basketball Writer
October 5, 2005

CHARLOTTE AMALIE, U.S. Virgin Islands (AP) -- The debate over who should have won the MVP award at the NBA Finals did not die down over the summer, at least not in Argentina where Manu Ginobili kept hearing from his countrymen that he should have gotten the nod over Tim Duncan.

``Well, my mom told me many times,'' Ginobili said Wednesday, ``and I heard it many times in Argentina, but it's just a statue. I'm going to have the ring, same as him, and I was feeling as happy as anyone in the world at that moment, so it doesn't make a difference.''

Maybe it didn't matter to Ginobili, but his biggest backers felt the 6-4 vote in favor of Duncan was a slap in the face.

Their argument focused on Ginobili clearly being the Spurs' best player in Games 1 and 2 against Detroit, as well as in the fourth quarter of Game 7 when San Antonio finished off the Pistons. Also, Ginobili was the one who threaded a pass around Rasheed Wallace to find a wide-open Robert Horry for the game-winning 3-point shot in overtime of Game 5.

Duncan's 12 points and six rebounds in the third quarter of Game 7 put the Spurs in control, a factor that carried significant weight in the minds of the six voters -- one each from Detroit and San Antonio, two from national NBA writers and two from broadcasters (all of them Americans) -- who cast their ballots for Duncan late in the fourth quarter of Game 7. Ginobili's four votes came from online balloting, one national NBA writer and one beat writer each from San Antonio and Detroit.

Spurs coach Gregg Popovich heard the MVP complaint several times when he traveled to Argentina during the summer, and the fans in South America even took it a step further.

``I didn't play him enough, we didn't pass it to him enough and all that sort of thing, but that's why they love him,'' Popovich said. ``Either of them could have gotten it, but neither cared because it was irrelevant.''

The NBA championship was the second of Ginobili's career, and he plans to display both his rings alongside with his Olympic gold medal from 2004 when he gets around to removing them from a safe deposit box in Texas.

Ginobili's quest for a third NBA title begins in less than a month, and this time he'll have another of his countrymen playing alongside him.

San Antonio signed Argentine center Fabricio Oberto during the summer, adding another knowledgeable, skilled piece to a roster overflowing with talent.

The Spurs originally had planned to sign Argentine forward Luis Scola, but a complicated buyout clause with his Spanish League team prevented him from making the move to the NBA. San Antonio quickly shifted gears and made a play for Oberto, who was ready to sign with Memphis.

``It was a shock for me. I was talking to Luis on a Tuesday, and he was very confident he was going to join the team. But on Wednesday or Thursday I found out the Spurs were going to sign Fabricio,'' Ginobili said. ``I was in a very awkward situation. I love them both, and I've played with them for years, and I knew that after the decision was made I would feel real happy for one and sad for the other.''

Popovich expects Oberto to begin the season as one of the backups to Nazr Mohammed, though he left open the possibility that his mind could be changed over the course of the preseason.

Neither Mohammed nor Oberto has much range on his jumper, and Oberto is a poor foul shooter.

But Popovich isn't looking for either center to be a primary offensive weapon, hoping instead that they'll embrace the roll of setting picks, battling under the boards and generally pitching in.

Both players have shown themselves willing to accept such a role, and it may come down to a matter of which player's basketball IQ meshes best with Popovich's mental designs.

Popovich has never denigrated Mohammed, but he often speaks reverentially of the hardwood smarts all the players from Argentina players displayed while finishing second in the 2002 World championship and the 2003 Tournament of the Americas and first in the 2004 Olympics.

That level of knowledge, Popovich believes, is a product of their upbringing in Argentina's national program.

``A lot of those kids start so early in a serious program, age 14 or 17 or whatever it is, and it's basically their life. If NBA teams were together since all the kids on those teams were 16 years old, they'd show a greater degree of understanding, too,'' Popovich said. ``Now, on every team maybe there's a couple of guys that really understand the game. Everybody else is an athlete, but very few combine athleticism with a really innate basketball quotient.''

Ginobili is one such player, and his combination of slashing skills, outside shooting and flair is what endears him so strongly to Spurs fans and his countrymen -- even if it wasn't appreciated quite enough last June to earn Ginobili a couple of swing votes.

``When I read the newspapers in Europe and Argentina, they said he was the people's MVP,'' Oberto said. ``But the most important thing is to be a champion.''

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people need to think no duncan in finals no ring

Quote:

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Neither Mohammed nor Oberto has much range on his jumper, and Oberto is a poor foul shooter

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so the guy has no jump shot, is 30 years old, what intangibles has the guy got, that makes him better than an improving Mohammed???

Do not believe everything that is written
one western scout said he was quite good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kolko

Maybe it didn't matter to Ginobili, but his biggest backers felt the 6-4 vote in favor of Duncan was a slap in the face.

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These are the same people that think Maradona is God :lol


Manu doesn't give a damn about the MVP and another thing, I don't think he'll care if he doesn't make AllStar next season.

I think he was dissapointed after playing his first allstar game, 'cause he was the only one actually playing to win that game. he can't play any other way

It was closer than it's ever been but Tim deserved it....

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Originally Posted by ducks

people need to think no duncan in finals no ring

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No Ginobili, no ring.

No Horry, no ring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

so the guy has no jump shot, is 30 years old, what intangibles has the guy got, that makes him better than an improving Mohammed???

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Very good Post game, good feetwork
Good Passing (and catching passes too), team player
High Basketball IQ
Good Defense
Rebounding
Hard Work, never gives up
Sets good pics
Decent Shot Blocking
Can play both 4 and 5

I don't know if he is an improvement, he is another weapon for the Spurs. Nazr might be more raw and physical, while Oberto brings something different to the table. That's what is so good about this roster, there are many different options that can be used according to different moments in the season.

It was 4-6, can people drop it already.

Most important pickup in my opinion is the (Fabricio) Oberto kid ... He's such a solid post player ... He's thrown in there with Duncan -- opposing teams are going to have major problems ... He is so sound fundamentally, rebounding-wise ... He'll play with a broken nose and two broken hands, he doesn't care ... He is a tough, tough kid
by western scout!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ALVAREZ6

No Ginobili, no ring.

No Horry, no ring.

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horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

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I think he meant last season. Last season, no Ginobili = No title, no Horry = No title

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

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Are you serious?

2004-05 Playoffs statistics:
GP 23
GS 15
mpg 33.6
FGM-A 145-286
FG% .507
3PM-A 42-96
3P% .438
FTM-A 147-185
FT% .795
Off. Reb. per game 0.8
Def. Reb. per game 5.0
RPG 5.8
APG 4.2
SPG 1.22
BPG 0.26
TO 2.87
PF 3.00
PPG 20.8
EFF per game 21.65
+ intangibles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

These are the same people that think Maradona is God :lol

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why not?

he's got the meek inherits the earth thing,
he survived the devil's temptations,
and now he's resurrected! :king





....
now don't you faithful get upset, i'm just joking

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

I think he was dissapointed after playing his first allstar game, 'cause he was the only one actually playing to win that game. he can't play any other way

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I thought the same. I kind of felt bad for him. That gangsta show off shit that all these players do is retarded, and accomplishes nothing, not even entertainment.

Have you ever been in that kind of game? Where you're the only one that's actually trying because basketball is only fun when everyone tries, not when you have a bunch of show off fucks that think they can play, but they spent too much time doing bullshit?

Manu plays to win. He isn't exactly the VC or LeBron type.

dude if spurs did not have manu
they would have had someone else and duncan would have scored more
spurs would have won without manu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

dude if spurs did not have manu
they would have had someone else and duncan would have scored more
spurs would have won without manu

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thats a moronic thing to say, so basically Duncan + anyone = championship?? What about 98, 2000, 2001, 2002??? Ducks, we all love Duncan, but even he is not that dominant my friend.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not saying Manu = Tim, we all know Tim is the cornerstone of the franchise, but do aknowledge the fact that Manu is a VERY BIG reason why the Spurs have 3 championships

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

dude if spurs did not have manu
they would have had someone else and duncan would have scored more
spurs would have won without manu

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Who can you get for Manu's price that can bring anything close to what Manu brings to the table?

spurs won titles without manu
they can win more without him
ofcourse it would be easier with him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ALVAREZ6

Who can you get for Manu's price that can bring anything close to what Manu brings to the table?

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oh manu is not making alot less then say kobe
manu is making more then say amare to

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

spurs won titles without manu
they can win more without him
ofcourse it would be easier with him

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no, I'm sorry, Spurs won TITLE! not titles, Spurs won TITLE without Manu, and that was with David Robinson in 1999, a Top 50 greatest, so stop talking bullshit. The Spurs would NOT have won last season without Manu, period. Granted that can be said about Duncan, Tony and Horry, but its still true none the less.

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

thats a moronic thing to say, so basically Duncan + anyone = championship?? What about 98, 2000, 2001, 2002??? Ducks, we all love Duncan, but even he is not that dominant my friend.

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he is not that dominant my friend


please he can take over anytime he wants to

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Originally Posted by ducks

oh manu is not making alot less then say kobe
manu is making more then say amare to

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Ducks, Amare just got a 77 million dollar extension for 5 years http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/s...mirolleyes.gif and Kobe Bryant makes close to 15 million a year! stop the bullshit! please! I beg you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

no, I'm sorry, Spurs won TITLE! not titles, Spurs won TITLE without Manu, and that was with David Robinson in 1999, a Top 50 greatest, so stop talking bullshit. The Spurs would NOT have won last season without Manu, period. Granted that can be said about Duncan, Tony and Horry, but its still true none the less.

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well you are lucky spurs did not sign kidd
because manu would have been a nugget last year

and would the nuggets been the champs last year since they had manu?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

Ducks, Amare just got a 77 million dollar extension for 5 years http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/s...mirolleyes.gif

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dude manu would have gotten that much had he signed an extension right now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

well you are lucky spurs did not sign kidd
because manu would have been a nugget last year

and would the nuggets been the champs last year since they had manu?

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Ducks... you're beyond help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

dude manu would have gotten that much had he signed an extension right now

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but he didn't, did he!!? So quit making shit up, and face facts!

spurs would not have had moeny for manu had they signed kidd......



answer the question!
would the nuggets won it all with manu last year?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

well you are lucky spurs did not sign kidd
because manu would have been a nugget last year

and would the nuggets been the champs last year since they had manu?

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Maybe they could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

but he didn't, did he!!? So quit making shit up, and face facts!

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if the spurs had amare instead of manu they would have won it all last year easily

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

oh manu is not making alot less then say kobe
manu is making more then say amare to

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First, that's bullshit.


Second, answer the question.

'an improving Mohammed"

He's been in NBA 7 years, he's 28, what you see is all you're ever gonna get. He may understand the Spurs defense a bit better this season, but that's all.

Nazr may remain the starter, but Fabri will outhustle and outplay Nazr for more MPG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

if the spurs had amare instead of manu they would have won it all last year easily

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If the Spurs had a healthy David Robinson in his prime, they would have crushed all competition aswell, what's your point??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

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dumbest post ever!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

if the spurs had amare instead of manu they would have won it all last year easily

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And if the Spurs had drafted MJ they would have more rings now...what's the point?

Answer this:
Maybe the Nuggets could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

That's a tough question, huh? If you say yes, you are underrating your boy Tony (and apreciating Manu, something you rarely do), if you say no, you are contradicting your previous point where you said that there are better players than Manu at a cheaper price.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

dumbest post ever!

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Not only would the Spurs not have won, they would have been swept. Manu saved our asses in games 1 and 2.

So yeah, it was a pretty bad post.

I seriously think it's a real duck posting on here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

Maybe they could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

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kidd was not that much better then tp last year

this is not a point guard o system


kidd is better at assist but he would be limited with the spurs

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

And if the Spurs had drafted MJ they would have more rings now...what's the point?

Answer this:
Maybe the Nuggets could have beaten the Spurs, imagine the team with Jason Kidd running the point... what do you think? would that be an improvement from Tony?

That's a tough question, huh? If you say yes, you are underrating your boy Tony (and apreciating Manu, something you rarely do), if you say no, you are contradicting your previous point where you said that there are better players than Manu at a cheaper price.

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That's a great question, I would like to see Ducks answer that one... Ducks, do you think Kidd is better than Parker? Personally, I don't, but maybe you have a different opinion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol

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Hell no, Duncan is the man. We're justt targeting Ducks' stupidity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ALVAREZ6

Hell no, Duncan is the man. We're justt targeting Ducks' stupidity.

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aye, I second that notion

dcuks, you've gotta be shitting me

NO Duncan, no second round

The vote accurately reflected who deserved the MVP award.

no duncan no finals
spurs would have been to finals without manu!

Yes TD is the man. Remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy. Nobody, not KG, not Shaq, nobody could have replaced TD and gotten the Spurs the rings. TD is MVP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

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That's retarted.

Anyone who thinks Manu should have gotten Finals MVP is a dumbass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

kidd was not that much better then tp last year

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So there you go...you can't find what Manu brings at his price. Jeez, I can't believe we are still arguing about this. The guy finished with one of the highest Efficiency ratings per minute played in the Playoffs, he was the team's top scorer in many games (with an insane FG% for a Guard), played awesome defense, made clutch plays, created points in critical moments when no one else was hitting a jumper. And he even accepted coming from the bench.

Seriously ducks, cut the crap, it's ok if you hate Manu, but at least bring a decent take. I don't know, talk about his hair, or go all-George Karlesque on us and complain about his flops, but you can't possibly argue what he meant for the Spurs winning the Larry O'Brien last season.

remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy.

picnroll gets it
we have a winner!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

no duncan no finals
spurs would have been to finals without manu!

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Yeah, right, probably Hedo Turkoglu or Brent Barry would have created plays when the Nuggets, Sonics and Pistons played tough defense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

So there you go...you can't find what Manu brings at his price. Jeez, I can't believe we are still arguing about this. The guy finished with one of the highest Efficiency ratings per minute played in the Playoffs, he was the team's top scorer in many games (with an insane FG% for a Guard), played awesome defense, made clutch plays, created points in critical moments when no one else was hitting a jumper. And he even accepted coming from the bench.

Seriously ducks, cut the crap, it's ok if you hate Manu, but at least bring a decent take. I don't know, talk about his hair, or go all-George Karlesque on us and complain about his flops, but you can't possibly argue what he meant for the Spurs winning the Larry O'Brien last season.

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http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/36_1_75.gif

so I hate manu because I do not think he was the finals mvp

I posted I wanted him to win it last year but I did not think he deserved it

if he won it he would get more calls this year!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy.

picnroll gets it
we have a winner!

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yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncan

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Originally Posted by mookie2001

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncan

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what are u 5 yrs old? whats up w/the gay fonts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

so I hate manu because I do not think he was the finals mvp

I posted I wanted him to win it last year but I did not think he deserved it

if he won it he would get more calls this year!

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No, Ducks, stop playing stupid. You know this whole argument is about you not thinking Manu was crucial to last season's success, not about the MVP thing!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??

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Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

so I hate manu because I do not think he was the finals mvp

I posted I wanted him to win it last year but I did not think he deserved it

if he won it he would get more calls this year!

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remember this post?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

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maybe that's why ppl think u hate manu?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mookie2001

no one is dissing Manu
even if he played 7 good games, which he didn't
he wasnt the MVP
it was Tim Duncan

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WTF? christ, that is not what is being discussed here mookie, get with the program!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too. :lol

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pincroll, in order to get LeBron, we would have had to have a very high first round pick, I'm talking reality here, not imagining things.

i never post in the spurs forum anyone more because the people in here a bunch of lottery picks fools (not yall) and know next to nothing about basketball (maybe yall)
I'm trying to make my point and get out

No one is saying Manu is the only reason the Spurs are the Champs.

We are arguing about ducks statement that without Manu (someone who is easily replaced, hell, Stevie Francis would do a much better job, right?) the Spurs would have cruised through the playoffs. Read the Argentinians replies to this post, no one said "Manu was robbed, he's the MVP", they are responding to ducks claim that Manu is "just another player". Well, I'm sorry to inform you, but he's not, he's a difference maker.

To me, the MVP is just a media thingy, the important thing is that the Spurs have another ring. What upsets me is that ducks is saying that it's the same with or without Manu...he's talking about the 2nd. best player on this team.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mookie2001

i never post in the spurs forum anyone more because the people in here a bunch of lottery picks fools (not yall) and know next to nothing about basketball (maybe yall)
I'm trying to make my point and get out

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Oh, I'm sorry, thank you for showing us n00bs the light, you basketball god. Your takes have been very informative, even if you didn't understand what was being discussed.

manu was a big reason they won a title last year
however had they not had him duncan would have done more he is capable of doign more then what he did last year!

well Manu was a role player in 03 and we won...
we replaced him with a unproven unheard of steven jackson and won the title

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

No one is saying Manu is the only reason the Spurs are the Champs.

We are arguing about ducks statement that without Manu (someone who is easily replaced, hell, Stevie Francis would do a much better job, right?) the Spurs would have cruised through the playoffs. Read the Argentinians replies to this post, no one said "Manu was robbed, he's the MVP", they are responding to ducks claim that Manu is "just another player". Well, I'm sorry to inform you, but he's not, he's a difference maker.

To me, the MVP is just a media thingy, the important thing is that the Spurs have another ring. What upsets me is that ducks is saying that it's the same with or without Manu...he's talking about the 2nd. best player on this team.

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http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/36_1_75.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/18_1_35.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/23_32_7.gif

ok so you basically backing out of this:

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Originally Posted by ducks

horseshit

spurs would have won a title without manu

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done deal :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/36_1_75.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/18_1_35.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat...22/23_32_7.gif

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I'm not a girl, bitch! :pctoss

:lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

pincroll, in order to get LeBron, we would have had to have a very high first round pick, I'm talking reality here, not imagining things.

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pistons had a very high draft pick when they picked darko

spurs could have traded for a high draft pick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

pincroll, in order to get LeBron, we would have had to have a very high first round pick, I'm talking reality here, not imagining things.

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Who said anything about reality? Look I'm not arguing Manu's greatness. I 'm probably as big a Manu homer as any non-Argentinian can be. It's just you could swap Manu for Wade, Kobe, T Mac, and win. You can't take Shaq, put hhim on th Spurs and beat Detroit, same with KG.

But to show you how big a Manu homer I am I'd rather have him than Kobe, T Mac, Wade (although that ones tough). Not because I think he's better just that he exemplifies more what I like about the Spurs, intelligence, personality, mature and he's hella fun to watch.

But TD's MVP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

I'm not a girl, bitch! :pctoss

:lol

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I know, but it don't work with "You go guy!" http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too. :lol

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wade
james
melo (maybe)


spurs could have won it all with had they not had manu



not sure with melo though

ducks you lost me at Melo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

wade
james
melo (maybe)


spurs could have won it all with had they not had manu



not sure with melo though

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So, the Spurs would have won it all with Lebron? Jeez, you are a walking contradiction...or maybe something is lost in translation?

"No Manu, no difference"
"Actually he was important last season"

-Insert one of your 10 million posts saying Lebron James sucks-
"With Lebron Spurs would have been Champs"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

So, the Spurs would have won it all with Lebron? Jeez, you are a walking contradiction...or maybe something is lost in translation?

"No Manu, no difference"
"Actually he was important last season"

-Insert one of your 10 million posts saying Lebron James sucks-
"With Lebron Spurs would have been Champs"

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\

james has not proven he can carry a team
if was a spurs he would not be the best player and would not have to carry the team

the problem with james is he does not trust his teamates
with the spurs duncan would have to trust HIM NOT JAMES has to trust duncan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Who said anything about reality? Look I'm not arguing Manu's greatness. I 'm probably as big a Manu homer as any non-Argentinian can be. It's just you could swap Manu for Wade, Kobe, T Mac, and win. You can't take Shaq, put hhim on th Spurs and beat Detroit, same with KG.

But to show you how big a Manu homer I am I'd rather have him than Kobe, T Mac, Wade (although that ones tough). Not because I think he's better just that he exemplifies more what I like about the Spurs, intelligence, personality, mature and he's hella fun to watch.

But TD's MVP.

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I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs, with the exception of Wade, but even with him, you're dreaming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

ducks you lost me at Melo.

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not sure if melo was a spur instead of manu they would have won it all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs.

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why does the other player have to make the same amount?

spurs could trade barry for draft picks and use that saraly for manu's replacement

Basically what we have with Manu is a Superstar that can take control over games BUT IN ADDITION has to also be a team player and do unusual things like give up the ball late in the game and even start at the bench if he has to.

NOBODY MENTIONED ABOVE(WADE,TMAC,KOBE,LEBRON) has both of the above qualifications.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

why does the other player have to make the same amount?

spurs could trade barry for draft picks and use that saraly for manu's replacement

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You just don't get it do you?? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/s...mirolleyes.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

I think that is bullshit, if you think Kobe would be able to fit into the Spurs system, you've got another thing coming. Kobe needs to be the center of his team's offense to be productive, he just wouldn't be that here. I find it funny that whenever the Spurs try to sign a player every Spurs fan in here is worried about chemistry, but now Manu is suddenly replaceable with any guard who happens to score more points. I'm sorry, but neither of those you mentioned can be acquired at the same price Manu is costing the Spurs, with the exception of Wade, but even with him, you're dreaming.

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I think you underestimate Pop.

And we weren't talking about price. When I brought up those players then you threw price in as a qualifier.

btw Wade is a team player, and I think LeBron is too and I think Pop could get more out of Kobe as a team player than Phil and all his zen can.

I doubt those players would like to come off the bench
but pop might not have asked them to either
he did that with manu because he knew he would be willing to...

lebron has never been asked not to have the ball late in the game so who knows if he would be willing or not

rember duncan does not get the ball late in the game all the time either

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

You just don't get it do you?? http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/s...mirolleyes.gif

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you not get it

manu is not god

Without Duncan, there would be no championships in San Antonio.

Duncan is definitely, definitely, definitely a more important player than Manu in the spurs system. Hes number 1... then a long ways down Manu is number 2. Just last year it was tony parker who was number 2 - but duncan has always been number 1. Duncan deserved the finals mvp with his game 7 performance. Remember that two of manu's baskets including a three pointer in the fourth quarter of game 7 when he scored 11 points were assists from duncan. The reason Manu had such a big quarter was mainly because duncan was getting doubleteamed in the post and that let manu do his thing unimpeded for the first time the entire series. Also detroit gave up at the end; remember the easy layup manu scored on them with like 2 minutes left? Everyone was talking about Duncan's phenomenal game 7, because it was he who caused everyone else's greatness to show brightly for the first time in a while.

If we win it again this year, Duncan will be finals mvp again. Its just that damn simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

I doubt those players would like to come off the bench
but pop might not have asked them to either
he did that with manu because he knew he would be willing to...

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Dude! he asked Manu 'cause he HAD TO, not 'cause he could. We had no punch off the bench. Which is exactly what would have happened w/any of the other stars. We would have been fucked!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

I think you underestimate Pop.

And we weren't talking about price. When I brought up those players then you threw price in as a qualifier.

btw Wade is a team player, and I think LeBron is too and I think Pop could get more out of Kobe as a team player than Phil and all his zen can.

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just to clarify...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

remember, Manu's great but there are probably five or six players that could have taken Manu's place and gotten the Spurs a trophy.

picnroll gets it
we have a winner!

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yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??

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and then you posted

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

yeah, five or six players, BUT NOT AT MANU'S SALARY!! Why is it so hard to grasp that concept??

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Wade? Gotcha.

I'd say LeBron but then I'd have ducks on my back too.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

you not get it

manu is not god

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I never said he was Ducks!! You're the one saying Manu doesn't make a difference!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Last year Parker was the Argentines' anti-Christ. Looks like this year they'll be targeting Duncan. :lol

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Bingo.

For the 567th. billion time: No one is discussing Tim's MVP Trophy

The article has taken some people's opinions (some who are basketball fans, others who only watched the Finals) as the whole statement of a nation. Anyone who has been watching the Argentina's National Team in the past 5 years knows that for the Argentinian basketball community (fans, coaches, players, journalists -not all, some like to stir things up in order to have something to write about-) individual goals are nowhere near winning trophies.

The discussion here is how much was Manu's influence worth in winning the Larry O'Brien trophy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

Dude! he asked Manu 'cause he HAD TO, not 'cause he could. We had no punch off the bench. Which is exactly what would have happened w/any of the other stars. We would have been fucked!

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had theyhad no choice they might have

ai no
but in the playoffs players want to win they might have WHO KNOW"S FOR SURE?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Without Duncan, there would be no championships in San Antonio.

Duncan is definitely, definitely, definitely a more important player than Manu in the spurs system. Hes number 1... then a long ways down Manu is number 2. Just last year it was tony parker who was number 2 - but duncan has always been number 1. Duncan deserved the finals mvp with his game 7 performance. Remember that two of manu's baskets including a three pointer in the fourth quarter of game 7 when he scored 11 points were assists from duncan. The reason Manu had such a big quarter was mainly because duncan was getting doubleteamed in the post and that let manu do his thing unimpeded for the first time the entire series. Also detroit gave up at the end; remember the easy layup manu scored on them with like 2 minutes left? Everyone was talking about Duncan's phenomenal game 7, because it was he who caused everyone else's greatness to show brightly for the first time in a while.

If we win it again this year, Duncan will be finals mvp again. Its just that damn simple.

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Do you post without reading what the hell is being discussed often?

Ohh
whats the name of this thread?
my screens messed up...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

had theyhad no choice they might have

ai no
but in the playoffs players want to win they might have WHO KNOW"S FOR SURE?

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what??

Okay. I won't argue Manu's not a bargian. But then we go back to Wade and LeBron who do have lower salaries regardless of why and to cover yourself you had to bring in reality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

what??

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manu was forced to come off the bench in the playoffs

someone said lebron,mcgrady,kobe, and wade would not

I said players want to win in the postseason

they might be willing to do that in the playoffs if it meant winning a title

they are assuming only manu would do that


they forgot duncan has came off the bench before

I see ducks still sucks.

Melo > Lebron, eh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by picnroll

Okay. I won't argue Manu's not a bargian. But then we go back to Wade and LeBron who do have lower salaries regardless of why and to cover yourself you had to bring in reality.

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fine picnroll, now that you know I was talking about reality, do you see where I'm coming from?

Man, this topic turned to crap very quickly. It's just an article saying Manu's family and fans thought he should be MVP and then Manu humbly knows that it's not about individual accolades. End of story.

No Manu, No Championship.
No Tim, No Championship.
No Horry, No Championship.
No Bowen, No Championship.
No Popovich, No Championship ...

Well you get the picture .. Basketball is a team sport.

So get over yourselves.

And Mookie, you say you never post in the Spurs forum anymore because no one knows anything. I don't recall that you've ever posted anything of substance in the Spurs forum. So until you do, don't complain about other people's lack of basketball knowledge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleGeneral

I see ducks still sucks.

Melo > Lebron, eh?

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why do I suck?



because thinking a college player would be better then a unproven highschool player

melo proved in college he was good
college is not the nba but it is closer then highschool