Slam Online: Spurs Preview

On to our NBA preview. After going north of the border yesterday and getting Rafer traded, let's go to San Antonio and check out the Spurs...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT'S YOUR NAME AND WHERE DO YOU LIVE?: Mark Guymon- North Richland Hills, Texas, by way of Live Oak.

YOUR TEAM IS: The World Champion and dynasty in the making San Antonio Spurs.

WHY IS THIS YOUR FAVORITE TEAM?: There are several reasons, the first of which being that is my hometown team and for anyone who has ever left their town and gone onto, say, a college environment or whatever -- hometown pride boils over. I remember when I went to play basketball in Idaho there were a few cats from D.C. (actually Maryland and Virginia but the whole East Coast is either D.C. or New York), if we weren't clowning on each other then we were arguing about whose hometown was better and what athletes came from home and what championships we had back home and all I can say now is "Scoreboard: To all of Rainbow 26. SPURS - SCOREBOARD."

Second, I like the way the Spurs play, except for blowing those big leads. They are a true team. Timmy (can't call him T, Robot for all the Spurs fans that got on my back last year being ignorant of the Links and all -- they didn't appreciate the nickname) is the best player in the League and the T-E-A-M around him is perfect because everybody knows and plays to their roles. They play hard defense on the perimeter and in the paint and they have the best ball movement in the NBA. They play the way they act -- it is an attitude and a mindset down in San Antone and it is reflected throughout the organization.

WHO IS RETURNING FROM LAST YEAR?: Tony Parker, Brent Barry, Nazr Mohammed, Bruce Bowen, Rasho Nesterovic (unfortunately), Sean Marks, Beno Udrih, Manu Ginobili (got cheated for finals MVP), Tim Duncan and of course Big Shot Rob -- my apologies to his biggest fan for my review last year where I questioned Rob's heart -- she was all over me about that. Okay he redemmed himself from his Doug Christie impersonation from 2 years ago.

WHO SKIPPED TOWN?: Rasho Nesterovic went to Seattle along with Bruce Bowen and Sean Marks for Jerome James and Ray Al…..what? oh sorry I am awake now. Homegrown product Devin Brown bolted to the Jazz. Glenn Robinson and 12 team journeyman (nba record) Tony Massenburg both got their rings and left.

WHO HAS YOUR TEAM ADDED?: Fabricio Oberto, Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley. I like the pick-ups. I know a lot of people wonder about the volatile Van Exel and how he will fit in with the mellow Spurs -- personally, I think it will be great to have a little attitude and the clutch shooting is a huge plus. Anything has to be better than Beno -- is there a point guard in the L with a worse handle? My only concern is will he play defense? Should be easy to play D when you know Tim has your back. Finley -- I love this pick-up. I live up in Mavland so I got to hear how they hated his jump-shooting and his questionable handle. They didn't appreciate the forced shots and the pump-fake fade-a-way. Thing is, dude shot 41-percent from the 3 point line in the Playoffs last year and has a career 38 percent. He is an athletic wing who can score and his percentage should shoot up since the Spurs want him to shoot threes and jumpers -- perfect fit. The beauty of it is, if either of them don't mesh then we don't need them and they will sit. Same team is returning from last year that won the title. They can either fit-in or sit-out.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR TEAM'S COACH?: Pop is the man -- he is the general -- undisputed. He is respected by his players and peers and he has a successful style and approach. You gotta love his attitude. He is one of the true coaches left -- Jerry Sloan, Pop, that is about it I guess. Maybe Phil but I hate the Lakers so scratch that. He gets his players open shots and puts them in a position to succeed and he wins.

WHICH PLAYER IS THE KEY TO YOUR TEAM'S SUCCESS THIS SEASON?: Manu - Manu – Manu. As I stated initially, he got cheated out of the finals MVP but Tim was a good choice. Manu plays great defense and he can score. He is aggressive and you gotta love his game -- sometimes he makes a silly play or two with a bad turnover but man, he came up BIG in the playoffs didn't he? Let me drop some Spanish: Manu es el Corazon de este equipo. Manu no tiene miedo de nada o de nadie. El tira de lejos, saca rebotes, juega la defense mejor que Bowen y el puede anotar puntos y asistencias. Manu es bueno y si el siga jugando al mismo nivel -- Los spurs van a ganar y ganar -- y ganar -– y ganar y ganar mas. Me imagino que en este temporada, Manu va a ser aun mejor porque su amigo Oberto firmo el contrato con Los Spurs.

WHAT TEAM DO YOU MOST WANT TO BEAT?: The Pistons. I mean, you could rationalize and say the Heat might come out of the East and it is always good to beat Shaq -- he played in San Antonio at Cole and he came up 2 years before I did, and we used to play in AAU summer ball and at Randolph or Fort Sam but you never hear him call San Antonio home and he has scheduled parties in the past when he came to town and no-showed. So it is always good to beat Shaq. And of course you will have to want to beat the Mavs just for Finley. But the team to beat and be concerned with is the Pistons. I still think they will come out of the East over the Pacers.

WHAT TEAM DO YOU MOST NEED TO BEAT?: The Pistons. You have to get and maintain that edge over the team you are probably going to face in the Finals.

WHO IS THE MOST IMPORTANT NEW PLAYER ON YOUR TEAM?: Van Exel. I actually think he will start a few games depending on how Parker plays. You know he has a tendency to be somewhat erratic -- you didn't know that about Tony? Nick won't be -- he might be off on his jumper but he plays the same regardless. He won't shy away from contact either or a challenge. I see him coming up big as he has for his whole career and he will do it in big games.

YOUR GENERAL MANAGER -- DISCUSS: I wasn't too sold on R.C. Buford, but I am more and more convinced of his talents. Especially with this off-season. The only other thing I would have liked was for them to move Rasho. He just doesn't fit. He is a good player and could fit in pretty well in another system but not with the Spurs -- he hasn't been able to find his role or fulfill it. R.C. Buford has built a darn good team down there in San Antonio though and he does it the same way he runs the franchise -- the right way.

IN WHAT WAYS DOES YOUR TEAM NEED TO IMPROVE?: Putting teams away. I think Van Exel will help with that and so will Finley. The Spurs need to put teams away. Historically the Spurs will get a big lead and then they either appear to get bored or they get disinterested and lose focus and teams come back. This year the Spurs need to put teams away early and often -- I mean, how many teams would have lost to the Rockets like that with McGrady hitting all those threes? I had to hear it from my brother -- the biggest T-Mac co-signer on the planet for a solid month.

WHERE DO YOU HOPE YOUR TEAM CAN FINISH THIS SEASON?: Anything less than a title will be a terrible failure. I would actually go out on a limb and predict a new regular season win record but I fear the injury and I fear the Spurs focus during the regular season is not what it should be. Jordan and the Bulls had the same focus against the Clippers on Day 1 that they had against the Jazz in Game 6. The Spurs don't have that focus. If they can get it, they will break the record.

OK, NOW REALLY, WHERE WILL THEY ACTUALLY FINISH THIS SEASON?: On their way to at least a three peat. They will win it again this year and they look good to win three in a row which will be wonderful as they establish themselves as a dynasty and solidify Tim's career as one of the best ever. Dude can play and that sense of humor...

WHAT SHOULD YOUR TEAM'S SLOGAN BE THIS SEASON?: Dynasty. The Spurs are a dynasty. They are the better version of the Patriots of the NBA -- they just win. Dynasty should be on the locker room wall.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Mark. Now for my quick take...
It was interesting to read you mention how Rasho doesn't really fit in. When I talked with RC Buford last season, the Spurs had just acquired Nazr, and he was saying how when they signed Rasho, it was between Rasho and Michael Olowokandi. They knew they needed a center, and they had enough money to sign either one and basically had to choose. They picked Rasho because he was a better at-the-rim defender. The whole Spurs philosophy is to funnel everyone baseline and then have TD and Rasho meet them at the rim. That's really all they want Rasho to do -- defend the rim. if he can score, great. Why bring this up? Because I'm curious about Van Exel's defense, too. He's never been a particularly amazing defender, but now he's going to be expected to shut down a particular area of the floor -- stopping guards from driving the center of the lane. If one guy screws up their assignment, it messes everything up for the Spurs, which is why despite his inconsistencies, the Spurs like Tony Parker so much -- he can stop guys from driving down the center of the paint. Still, Mark, you hit it on the head when you pointed out how even if the new guys don't work out, the Spurs should be fine. Pop is the best in the biz, and unless injuries hit, I'm going with the Spurs to repeat.

No link. No cred.

WHO IS RETURNING FROM LAST YEAR?: Tony Parker, Brent Barry, Nazr Mohammed, Bruce Bowen, Rasho Nesterovic (unfortunately), Sean Marks, Beno Udrih, Manu Ginobili (got cheated for finals MVP), Tim Duncan and of course Big Shot Rob -- my apologies to his biggest fan for my review last year where I questioned Rob's heart -- she was all over me about that. Okay he redemmed himself from his Doug Christie impersonation from 2 years ago.

ha ha ha ha hah a ha

He lost me when he fantasized about trading Bowen away, and getting Jerome James and ovary in return.

crap article

here is your link punk : http://slamonline.com/links/10032005/index1.html

dont question me - and if you don't think that ray allen and jerome james would be an upgrade to this roster you are as dumb as you appear.

It is funny you can call him ovary but if he was a Spur and Bowen was a Sonic you would be calling Bowen dirty - I guess you hate that Finley is here too - maybe he should be Uterus or fallopian tube because he complained more than Ray Allen ever did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Manu Ginobili (got cheated for finals MVP),

---

:rolleyes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

WHO SKIPPED TOWN?: Rasho Nesterovic went to Seattle along with Bruce Bowen and Sean Marks for Jerome James and Ray Al…..what? oh sorry I am awake now.

---

Fuck Ray ray and Trashman

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Anything has to be better than Beno -- is there a point guard in the L with a worse handle? My only concern is will he play defense? Should be easy to play D when you know Tim has your back.

---

He was a freaking rookie!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

WHICH PLAYER IS THE KEY TO YOUR TEAM'S SUCCESS THIS SEASON?: Manu - Manu – Manu. As I stated initially, he got cheated out of the finals MVP but Tim was a good choice. Manu plays great defense and he can score.

---

:rolleyes :rolleyes


and that is why I thought the article was CRAP :)

Thanks for the link. Still no cred.

thanks for the comment - no link though - no cred and your opinion is pointless.

Quote:

---

dont question me

---

who are you not to be questioned?

Quote:

---

It is funny you can call him ovary but if he was a Spur and Bowen was a Sonic you would be calling Bowen dirty

---

If he was a Spur and still whined like he did, I would still drop the "strained ovary" card.

I doubt you would call him ovary as he was dropping threes and winning games and obviously I guess you would call Bowen a dirty player. I mean I am a Spurs fan but the way Bowen jumps at people when they shoot and forces them to land funny or on his feet is dirty - if you don;t know that then you have never played ball.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

here is your link punk : http://slamonline.com/links/10032005/index1.html

dont question me - and if you don't think that ray allen and jerome james would be an upgrade to this roster you are as dumb as you appear.

It is funny you can call him ovary but if he was a Spur and Bowen was a Sonic you would be calling Bowen dirty - I guess you hate that Finley is here too - maybe he should be Uterus or fallopian tube because he complained more than Ray Allen ever did.

---

Don't question you? Who died and made you God?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

I doubt you would call him ovary as he was dropping threes and winning games and obviously I guess you would call Bowen a dirty player. I mean I am a Spurs fan but the way Bowen jumps at people when they shoot and forces them to land funny or on his feet is dirty - if you don;t know that then you have never played ball.

---

if you really think that, then u ain't a true spur fan. U either another one of the undercover trolls. or a fresh Bandwagon fan.

well God never dies so - nobody I guess. Dont question me is advice because I will prove you wrong. - case in point - man requested a link and he got a link.

I really think that - I know that to be true. It is something you don't do when you play ball. Ask anyone and they will tell you it is dirty to jump at someone like he does when they shoot and force them to land on his feet or fall. - I still think he is a good player and I am not complaining too loud - but dirty it is and if you knew how to play ball then you would recognize.

Not sure what you mean by uncercover troll - got a link ?

fresh bandwagon fan - boy recognize - I grew up in San Antone --Judson Product - been a fan since the days of Silas, Gervin and the A-train- Johnny moore and Mike Mitchell - don't come at me with bandwagon garbage.

You didn't prove anybody wrong. They asked for a link. You provided a link. You didn't prove anything.

And I don't think Bowen is a dirty player. And yes, I have played the game my whole life. Has Bowen done an occasional dirty play? Sure. He plays close to the edge, he gives most of his effort on the defensive end, and he never gives up. Add that all together and occasionally he MAY cross the line. But I don't think it's intentional so I wouldn't call him a dirty player.

coopdogg3

This is the weirdest thread. Why are you all attacking the guy for posting this? And then why is he responding so hostile?

Agree or disagree with the article but don't take it so personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

On to our NBA preview. After going north of the border yesterday and getting Rafer traded, let's go to San Antonio and check out the Spurs...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the Spurs should be fine. Pop is the best in the biz, and unless injuries hit, I'm going with the Spurs to repeat.

---

ME TOO ;-)

Quote:

---

I doubt you would call him ovary as he was dropping threes and winning games

---

for that...no...if he was whining, even if he was a Spur,...yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Dont question me is advice because I will prove you wrong. - case in point - man requested a link and he got a link.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Not sure what you mean by uncercover troll - got a link ?

---

:lol

This guy is hilarious.. it's funny because I think he's actually serious.

WHat didnt I prove - he questioned the veracity of the post - I proved it - logic!

I agree with you on Bowen - that is what I said - but the main thing Ray was whining about was the way he jumped at his feet when he shot jumpers.

Quote:

---

I really think that - I know that to be true. It is something you don't do when you play ball.

---

Good point. Something else you don't do is whine and bitch about the other team. At least in my old neighborhood, that would have gotten your ass kicked. I know this is old school of me and in today's Sportscenter, And-1, me-me-me world its not a fundamental ideal anymore but I have always had the belief that you let your play do the talking. Don't whine, don't bitch, just shut up and play. If you are good enough...and Ray Allen is....your game speaks for itself.

Speaking of Ray Allen ...

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...812#post537812

I Agree with that - I am of the old school philosophy too but right now I work up in Dallas a lot and the sports guys up in Dallas say that Tim, Manu, Tony and Bowen all whine and cry about everything. IT is perception I guess - or some could say psychological - in the sense that Ray thinks if he whines about those plays enough he will get more calls and Bowen wont play as hard on him - didnt work but maybe that was his thought. -

Chris - I am serious buddy - what is an undercover troll and I was a Spurs fan when you were a twinkle in my eye.

Shut up already.

Going back to the article, I really agree with this:

Quote:

---

WHERE DO YOU HOPE YOUR TEAM CAN FINISH THIS SEASON?: Anything less than a title will be a terrible failure. I would actually go out on a limb and predict a new regular season win record but I fear the injury and I fear the Spurs focus during the regular season is not what it should be. Jordan and the Bulls had the same focus against the Clippers on Day 1 that they had against the Jazz in Game 6. The Spurs don't have that focus. If they can get it, they will break the record.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

juega la defense mejor que Bowen

---

This guy thinks Manu plays better defense than Bowen
:lol

Manu plays great defense but he definitely doesn't play better than Bowen. I don't think I'll be trusting this guy

I wouldn't want any part of the trade proposed because I wouldn't touch Jerome James. What on Earth has James ever done. He's a 7 footer who averaged 3 rebounds per game last season and couldn't stay on the floor for 20 minutes a night.

He's got zero offensive game -- IF you can get him free on a pick-and-roll, he has a chance to score. But if teams deny him the roll and force him to do anything other than dunk (which he hasn't shown an ability to do outside of a pick-and-roll) he's completely useless offensively.

He's not very good defensively either. Say what you will about Rasho, but at least Rasho usually hits the boards and defends the rim. Given that Rasho has much, much more offensive game than James, there's no way that I'd take James over Rasho.

I also don't know why you'd want to add Ray Allen to this team. Ray is a tremendous shooter and a legitimate all-star, but if you bring him here, you have 2 guys who can do more or less the same things. Manu has better handles and plays much better defense than Ray; Ray is a better shooter than Manu. But only one of them can have the ball at any given time, and when either of them have the ball, Tim Duncan doesn't. Beyond that, what are you going to do defensively if you add Ray Allen? Are you going to play Ray or Manu against good offensive 3s (either will be overmatched in having to defend guys like Marion or Lebron -- and whichever one defends that guy is likely to struggle on the offensive end), or are you just going to concede points to those guys and hope, in Suns fashion, that you'll score enough points to win?

The beauty of the Finley deal is that Finley can play alongside Bowen and the Spurs won't lose defensive presence. If and when Finley plays alongside Manu, it won't be in long stretches and for those short periods, Finley is a perfect compliment as a spot-up three point shooter who will pretty much do that and that alone. With that, Finley is a better defender than Allen and is strong enough to battle with stronger wings while Bowen takes his rest. Ray Allen lacks that ability.

I appreciate the creativity, but I don't see that as a solution. Not that there's a problem.

Quote:

---

I work up in Dallas a lot and the sports guys up in Dallas say that Tim, Manu, Tony and Bowen all whine and cry about everything.

---

jealousy is a bitch! :lol

WHo you telling to shut up ?

I didn't think there was a problem either I think ray allen and michael finley are pretty much the same type of player except ray allen is much better. Ray could play with either bowen or manu and to you SPRRS man - Manu plays much better defense than Bowen - ask Kobe who he would rather have gaurd him - Manu or Bowen. Manu plays honest on ball defense and still gets in the passing lanes - helps and he will give it to you on the offensive end. I will take his defense over Bowens any day. - Ray averaged 24 points a game against the Spurs in the playoffs and he was hurt.

oh so when people say it about the spurs it is jealousy but when you say it is is gospel ?

Manu plays good defense...but he does in no way, shape, or form play better defense than Bowen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

WHo you telling to shut up ?

---

Feisty little fella, aren't ya?

Quote:

---

I didn't think there was a problem either I think ray allen and michael finley are pretty much the same type of player except ray allen is much better. Ray could play with either bowen or manu and to you SPRRS man - Manu plays much better defense than Bowen - ask Kobe who he would rather have gaurd him - Manu or Bowen. Manu plays honest on ball defense and still gets in the passing lanes - helps and he will give it to you on the offensive end. I will take his defense over Bowens any day. - Ray averaged 24 points a game against the Spurs in the playoffs and he was hurt.

---

Nothing sadder than an actual Spurs fan who doesn't appreciate what Bruce Bowen has done for our team.

In the first round, Ray averaged 32 ppg on 51% shooting. Against the Spurs, he averaged 21 ppg on 43% shooting. Of course he's going to get his points. Bowen's job is to make him work for it.

As for Manu's D being better than Bowen's D, that's laughable. Ask every coach and player in the NBA, and they'll tell you Bowen (along with Artest) are the top 2 perimeter defenders in the game.

I think Manu's D is underrated but IMO its not better than Bowen's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samikeyp

I think Manu's D is underrated but IMO its not better than Bowen's.

---

Manu's D isn't underrated when people say it's better than Bowen's.

:)

One thing I do agree with you on is that fans of other teams think that Manu and Tim whine just as much as Spurs fans think Ray whines.

The HUGE difference is that Manu and Tim never whine or complain in the press. Ray (as well as Vince Carter) has made that his M.O. and is laughed about around the league because of it. Many people within their organization have even said that he needs to concentrate on basketball and not complain to the press. He really let's Bowen get in his head.

Kori is right about the whining. There was even at time at a GTG when Kori and I were complaining about Tim. I think it was one of the regular season ones. Tim did something stupid and we were both basically saying "shut up and play" A lot of players tend to whine at times...even the best ones.

Ray's percentage dropped because of his injury and I in no way shape or form take anything away from what Bowen does on the floor. I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen. I assure you that Kobe will be in there - Iverson will be in there as will Larru Hughes, Mcgrady and a few others like T. Prince, Andre Kirileinko. There will be no universal choice - maybe Artest but I doubt it. Bowen is good at what he does and he is effective but people won't pick him because they will be able to rest on defense. He doesnt make people work on defense so they save all thier energy for offense.

Quote:

---

I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen.

---

I disagree. While neither you or I can guarantee that since we are not in on those conversations, Bowen is always mentioned in those discussions that are pubilshed and Kobe is usually not in there.

Did you even watch the Spurs playoffs?

Did you see Bowen shut down Carmelo, Marion, Rip and then Chauncey when called upon?

Kobe used to be considered a good defender.

Larry Hughes and Allen Iverson get steals, but they are not in the same breath with Artest or Bowen on perimeter D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Ray's percentage dropped because of his injury and I in no way shape or form take anything away from what Bowen does on the floor. I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen. I assure you that Kobe will be in there - Iverson will be in there as will Larru Hughes, Mcgrady and a few others like T. Prince, Andre Kirileinko. There will be no universal choice - maybe Artest but I doubt it. Bowen is good at what he does and he is effective but people won't pick him because they will be able to rest on defense. He doesnt make people work on defense so they save all thier energy for offense.

---

????

Non sequitur...

Hell, this is real weird..I'm thinking closet laker fan maybe? Bruce can shut damn near anybody down.He should have won DPOY last season, and this guy is saying he's overated????Give ME a fucking break

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen.

---

And he came in second in DPOY because???

And yes Bowen is more of an offensive liability than say, Allen, but that's not what we're talking about. You're arguin that Manu is a better perimiter defender than Bowen, which isn't true. None of those other guys you named up there, with the exception or Artest, are better defenders than Bowen either. And if what you say about opposing players not working as hard on defense as on offense, then you're just praising Bowen even more because he still manages to stop them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Did you even watch the Spurs playoffs?

Did you see Bowen shut down Carmelo, Marion, Rip and then Chauncey when called upon?

Kobe used to be considered a good defender.

Larry Hughes and Allen Iverson get steals, but they are not in the same breath with Artest or Bowen on perimeter D.

---

Kobe can lock down ( no pun intended) anyone he wants to anytime.
Carmelo shuts himself down - look at his numbers - terrible shot selection - terrible choices period. Bruce did not shut down Chancey Billups - did you watch the playoffs ?

When did Shawn Marion or any of these guys become offensive juggernauts that you would write home about because you shut them down ?

Quote:

---

Bruce did not shut down Chancey Billups - did you watch the playoffs ?

---

He did when he was on him. He wasn't always guarding Chauncey. When he wasn't Chauncey went off....when he was, CB was just off.

Quote:

---

Bruce did not shut down Chancey Billups - did you watch the playoffs ?

---

Umm.. you apparently didn't. Bruce was switched onto Chauncey late in games (Parker guarded him the rest of the game while Bowen guarded Rip.) Bowen shut down Chauncey cold when he guarded him.

Marion averaged over 22 points a game in the first two playoff series --as much as players like Tim and Manu. Against Bowen he averaged 7.8 points a game.

So far you gave these excuses:

1. Ray was injured.
2. Carmelo shut himself down.
3. Bowen didn't shut down Chauncey.

So what's Marion's excuse?

Chauncey busted him up in the 4th quarter -

Non sequitur ? It doesnt follow to you that Bowen expends all of his energy on defense where somebody like Artest, Kobe, Mcgrady expend their energy on both ends ? Bruce is "self-check" you don't have to guard him.

You find me some poll of NBA Players somewhere that say Bruce is their toughest match up - let me see that link - or that proof. I know he can play defesne and he does it well ( a little dirty sometimes) but he does it well and he gets in a lot of folks head - vince carter - ray allen etc.. but the best defensive player in the game - no - I still would take Manu's defense over Bowens for perimeter players.

Quote:

---

Chauncey busted him up in the 4th quarter -

---

Name the game, plays and times.

You provide the proof.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Agree or disagree with the article but don't take it so personally.

---

ok.

so let me state right now that I disagree with about 30% of that article.
and I almost vomited at he thought of getting rid of Bowen in favor of ray i'm a big pussy allen.
yeah. I kinda verped.

Are you saying Ray wasn't injured?
are you saying Carmelo is a great offensive player ?

Let's take a better example - in 2003 when the Lakers beat the Spurs - how did Bowen do against Kobe ? Kobe lit him up. - repeatedly and I hate the Lakers because there are two teams I like - Spurs and Celtics (of the 80's mind you) and to be a fan of either team you must hate the Lakers.

Quote:

---

You find me some poll of NBA Players somewhere that say Bruce is their toughest match up -

---

show me one where he is not.

Quote:

---

the best defensive player in the game - no

---

then why is he all defense and why has he finished 2nd in the DPOY for two straight years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

This is the weirdest thread. Why are you all attacking the guy for posting this? And then why is he responding so hostile?

Agree or disagree with the article but don't take it so personally.

---

This thread started out entitled "preview" by a first-time poster in Spurstalk (post #1) with no link or listing of the source of the link. It appeared to be a Q & A between two people (good people, no doubt, but unremarkable) about the Spurs.

A request for link and credence was not out of line and the author clarified and re-titled it so that it's intent would be clearer.

Quote:

---

and to be a fan of either team you must hate the Lakers.

---

or just not give a crap about them. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Let's take a better example - in 2003 when the Lakers beat the Spurs - how did Bowen do against Kobe ? Kobe lit him up. - repeatedly and I hate the Lakers because there are two teams I like - Spurs and Celtics (of the 80's mind you) and to be a fan of either team you must hate the Lakers.

---

Are you talking about these 2003 playoffs ...

Quote:

---

On Monday, Bowen forced Bryant to sweat through 38 shots to get his 37 points. On Wednesday, he decided to outshoot him as well.

On the Spurs' third possession of the night, Bowen buried a 3-pointer from above the key. The next time down the floor, he spotted up in the corner, his most comfortable location, and hit another. By halftime, he had five 3-pointers (another franchise playoff record) and 17 points.

Bowen also blocked three shots by Bryant, who needed 24 shots for his 27 points. Bowen finished with 27 points and seven 3-pointers.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samikeyp

or just not give a crap about them. :)

---

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Non sequitur ? It doesnt follow to you that Bowen expends all of his energy on defense where somebody like Artest, Kobe, Mcgrady expend their energy on both ends ? Bruce is "self-check" you don't have to guard him.

---

The question is who is the better perimeter defender, Bruce or Manu. To derive the answer to that question, one normally would discuss defense...not offense.

The fact that Bruce may or may not be an offensive threat has no bearing on whether or not he is a better perimeter defender.

Non sequitur fallacy stands...

Do you not know anything about basketball? Defense wins games. Bowen is one of the best defenders in the game. He can also makes some big 3s when needed. I remember in game 7, Bowen blocked Billups' shot which pretty much clinched the Championship for the Spurs. Do not doubt Bowen, he is an execellent player and teammate.

non sequitur doesn't stand because you can't seperate the two - this isn't football where you have an offensive team and a defensive team - it is basketball free flowing and you have to play both ends.

I actually mean any year the Lakers played the Spurs and Kobe was the Spur killer lighting Bruce Bowen up. You can't point to his percentage because Kobe never shoots a good percentage - never has since his career began in the NBA. - he isn't a shooter - he is a scorer and a terrible person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

non sequitur doesn't stand because you can't seperate the two - this isn't football where you have an offensive team and a defensive team - it is basketball free flowing and you have to play both ends.

I actually mean any year the Lakers played the Spurs and Kobe was the Spur killer lighting Bruce Bowen up. You can't point to his percentage because Kobe never shoots a good percentage - never has since his career began in the NBA. - he isn't a shooter - he is a scorer and a terrible person.

---

Bowen shuts down anyone, not just only Kobe.

nobody is talking about defense winning games - this has expanded into like 20 arguements and opinions - back to basics manu and bowen - I think Manu is a better defender. - my opinion. I recognize Bruce Bowen plays hard defense and does his job and I appreciate it - but as this season goes I will make sure and continue this conversation as we see how he matches up with players throughout the season vs. how manu does.

all of this is opinion anyway - no fact to the matter.

Horry for 3 - didnt you see the beginning of this thread - don't question me.

Bowen doesn't shut down anyone. I remember the last year the LAkers knocked the Spurs out and who was guarding Kobe at the end of the game ? Devin Brown - -not Bowen - but Devin Brown. Terrible decision by Pop - should have put Manu on him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

here is your link punk : http://slamonline.com/links/10032005/index1.html

dont question me - and if you don't think that ray allen and jerome james would be an upgrade to this roster you are as dumb as you appear.

It is funny you can call him ovary but if he was a Spur and Bowen was a Sonic you would be calling Bowen dirty - I guess you hate that Finley is here too - maybe he should be Uterus or fallopian tube because he complained more than Ray Allen ever did.

---

talk about someone who has no clue to the Spurs success

this article was the worst myopic drivel I ever started reading, but I should have known it was crap coming from SLAM magazine

this hack doesnt represent SA or Spurs fans. dallas must have truly warped his preseption of what SA is all about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

I still would take Manu's defense over Bowens for perimeter players.

---

Even us Members of the Church of Manu :lmao @ your statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

non sequitur doesn't stand because you can't seperate the two - this isn't football where you have an offensive team and a defensive team - it is basketball free flowing and you have to play both ends.

---

Plenty of people have no trouble figuring out the difference...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

non sequitur doesn't stand because you can't seperate the two - this isn't football where you have an offensive team and a defensive team - it is basketball free flowing and you have to play both ends.

I actually mean any year the Lakers played the Spurs and Kobe was the Spur killer lighting Bruce Bowen up. You can't point to his percentage because Kobe never shoots a good percentage - never has since his career began in the NBA. - he isn't a shooter - he is a scorer and a terrible person.

---

Yes it does stand. there is a difference between defense and offense. When being awarded DPOY they don't take into account offensive production. And you keep on naming Kobe. Kobe Kobe Kobe. He's the only player that you say can stand up to Bowen, what about other players, or is no one else capable of handling Bowen?

You sir are either SERIOUSLY uninformed or a troll. At this point I wouldn't be suprised if you were both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoSpurs21

talk about someone who has no clue to the Spurs success

this article was the worst myopic drivel I ever started reading, but I should have known it was crap coming from SLAM magazine

this hack doesnt represent SA or Spurs fans. dallas must have truly warped his preseption of what SA is all about.

---

He seems more like an Sonics fan. Jerome James & Ray Allen? Jerome James is pathetic, Rasho > Jerome. Ray Allen is a whining pussy player. Manu > Ray

Quote:

---

WHY IS THIS YOUR FAVORITE TEAM?: They play hard defense on the perimeter and in the paint and they have the best ball movement in the NBA. They play the way they act -- it is an attitude and a mindset down in San Antone and it is reflected throughout the organization.

---

you realize we'd lose a huge % of just that if we got rid of Bowen right?? He IS our perimater offense. Not to mention how often that ball travels thru his hands when we do crazy stuff liek pass 30 times in 8 secounds......

manu is a better defender becasue he's better at offense??? that argument does not hold water with me. Its not realted.

look at you using $5.00 words to get your point accross - did mommy teach you those today ?

Dallas ? how could they warm my "preseption" (assume you mean perception - which i dont have because I grew up there and lived there for 20+ years so I have a knowledge) Dallas plays good basketball just like San Antonio does.

please enlighten me on Spurs success

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Horry For 3!

He seems more like an Sonics fan. Jerome James & Ray Allen? Jerome James is pathetic, Rasho > Jerome. Ray Allen is a whining pussy player. Manu > Ray

---

:lmao ..thats saying ALOT 'casue aparently we are tryign to unload him.... :lmao

Oooooooh...implying I still live at home with my mother. Nice. Does that mean you can't refute my statement?

wow..this things getting HOT.Come on Monday!

you talking about rasho - dude will be lucky to get 10 minutes a game this year.

Quote:

---

this article was the worst myopic drivel I ever started reading, but I should have known it was crap coming from SLAM magazine

---

You do realize that the "article" is just a fan writing in and the only part written by anyone at Slam is this part ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lane Whitaker

Thanks, Mark. Now for my quick take...
It was interesting to read you mention how Rasho doesn't really fit in. When I talked with RC Buford last season, the Spurs had just acquired Nazr, and he was saying how when they signed Rasho, it was between Rasho and Michael Olowokandi. They knew they needed a center, and they had enough money to sign either one and basically had to choose. They picked Rasho because he was a better at-the-rim defender. The whole Spurs philosophy is to funnel everyone baseline and then have TD and Rasho meet them at the rim. That's really all they want Rasho to do -- defend the rim. if he can score, great. Why bring this up? Because I'm curious about Van Exel's defense, too. He's never been a particularly amazing defender, but now he's going to be expected to shut down a particular area of the floor -- stopping guards from driving the center of the lane. If one guy screws up their assignment, it messes everything up for the Spurs, which is why despite his inconsistencies, the Spurs like Tony Parker so much -- he can stop guys from driving down the center of the paint. Still, Mark, you hit it on the head when you pointed out how even if the new guys don't work out, the Spurs should be fine. Pop is the best in the biz, and unless injuries hit, I'm going with the Spurs to repeat.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

look at you using $5.00 words to get your point accross - did mommy teach you those today ?

---

Look at you using childish, insulting remarks in an argument. Very convincing, really.

Pathetic.

I was just impressed by the use of the words is all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

you talking about rasho - dude will be lucky to get 10 minutes a game this year.

---

And yet he's still more reliable than Jerome James

I stand by my thoughts about Bowen - Ray and Manu. You do realize Bowen is already going to love minutes this year to Finley -and to Bones -- lots of them ? And the Spurs won't miss a beat - Manu can guard anyone the league as well if not better than Bowen.
You do realize that Rasho will get about 10 minutes a game and if you think he wasnt on the trading block this summer I would have to say you are crazy. Nazr mohammed will get most of those minutes and I wouldn't be suprised to see a trade before the all-star deadline involving Rasho.
It is okay to be a fan and not wear silver and black colored glasses.
This weekend when I drive back into San Antonio and we go play ball down with Jerry Soto and Henry Yzaquirre or maybe we head up to Randolph to play some ball - Hopefully some of you guys play in those places so we can meet and discuss hoops and play a little.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

I was just impressed by the use of the words is all.

---

Nitpicking at misspelled words. Very impressive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

This weekend when I drive back into San Antonio and we go play ball down with Jerry Soto and Henry Yzaquirre or maybe we head up to Randolph to play some ball - Hopefully some of you guys play in those places so we can meet and discuss hoops and play a little.

---

Talk to Kori. She sets up or knows about periodic basketball GTGs. If there's one on, there will usually be a thread about it.

Quote:

---

You do realize Bowen is already going to love minutes this year to Finley -and to Bones -- lots of them ?

---

Finley will get Devin and Barry's minutes from last season. Manu and Bowen's minutes will stay relatively steady. Barry will get just spot minutes unless he really steps up his game.

Quote:

---

Bowen doesn't shut down anyone.

---

I call shenanigans.

finley will get devin and barrys minutes? Where are Barry's minutes going to go then ? Finley and Barry will both get minutes and they wont take them away from Manu they will come from Bowen and maybe Parker if Pop lets Bones run some point.

Allen's a badass when his vagina isn't hurting but he'd be pretty much a marginal improvement for the Spurs over Finley. All things considered, I'd rather go with Bowen + Finley than Ray Ray. Losing Bowen would cost the defense its soul.

Quote:

---

finley will get devin and barrys minutes? Where are Barry's minutes going to go then ? Finley and Barry will both get minutes and they wont take them away from Manu they will come from Bowen and maybe Parker if Pop lets Bones run some point.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myself

Barry will get just spot minutes unless he really steps up his game.

---

The Spurs usually run (especially late in the season) a 3-man rotation at the swing spots with the fourth guy getting spot minutes. The rotation will be Bowen-Manu-Finley and Barry getting spot minutes unless there's injuries or someone's game declines rapidly or exceeds expectations.

Pop said on Media Day that he's going to manage Manu's minutes very closely. So probably in the beginning of the season, he may see a little less than average minutes and Finley/Barry might get a little extra.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TOP-CHERRY

Nothing sadder than an actual Spurs fan who doesn't appreciate what Bruce Bowen has done for our team.

---

BINGO!!!!


and about the whinning. EVERYBODY in the league not named Rasho Nesterovic complains about calls :rolleyes

Quote:

---

Bowen doesn't shut down anyone.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I call shenanigans.

---

:lol

Game 1 of NBA Western Conf. Finals - Bruce Bowen shuts down Shawn Marion.
http://www.nba.com/games/20050522/SASPHO/boxscore.html

Bowen basically turned Marion into a rebounder because he became a non-open, non-factor offensively.

Games 2, 3, 4 and 5 weren't much better for Marion averaging 7.8 ppg in 40.2 min./game for the series. He averaged over 23 ppg in the prior 6-game series vs. Dallas. Both the Dallas series and SA series were uptempo, high-scoring affairs.

Quote:

---

jerome james would be an upgrade

---

The guy is suckmywokandi Supersized but comes with a garbage bag to catch his lazy limited talent game for the season.

As for Ray Allen, a talented player for sure, but in a game where balance is king, his jumper would be relegated to situational shots just like Bruce, just like Brent, and just like Fin. If you think he should take away shots from Tim & Manu, well...I disagree.

Quote:

---

I work up in Dallas a lot and the sports guys up in Dallas say that Tim, Manu, Tony and Bowen all whine and cry about everything.

---

Could it be that they're tired of watching the team they back get their ass kicked on a regular basis? That was Dirk that I saw go postal on his own teammate for letting Nash get off an uncontested 3 eh. Sportswriters need to write about something. Maybe that's why they say the same shit here in California except here, they roast the hell out of Kobe because it sells papers.

Quote:

---

Manu plays honest on ball defense and still gets in the passing lanes - helps and he will give it to you on the offensive end. I will take his defense over Bowens any day.

---

Look, for the type of in-your-face D that Bruce plays it's a necessity to counter the tricks that the premier scorer in the L try to get away with to get that shot off. They push and clear and use physical, sometimes illegal, to get that space.

You can't ask Manu to play that type of D for as long and as intense as Bruce does and still have the same effort on the O side. That's why Bowen's role is so pivotal.
This is still a contact sport and for every whine about an O player not getting space for his shot, there is a D player in his jock pushing the edges between legal and illegal contact. The ref makes the call. That is how it's done. You can see the same type of spirited D-they love playing it this hard- in the forms of Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncreif, Dennis Rodman, Bill Russell...et al. Players who had reps for their tenacity on the D side of the ball.
It ain't pretty but as long as there is a need for D in this game, there will always be players like Bruce playing it.

Quote:

---

Ray's percentage dropped because of his injury and I in no way shape or form take anything away from what Bowen does on the floor.

---

Okay-now you've irked me.

Let's see, well use Ray's last 2 games against Bruce before the playoffs to see how well he shoots against Bruce. I don't know how you can't see the beauty of Bruce holding players to around 1 point per shot. You can say Ray averages 24 per but if it takes him 24 shots to get it, that ain't very effective:

Taking the "injury" playoff series out of the equation, let's go with Ray's previous 2 games against the Spurs.
On 12-8-04 At Seattle
Allen goes 9-19 and scores 29
On 3-30-05 At SBC
Allen goes 6-17 and score 14
Total those up:
Ray went 15-36 scored 43
43/36 = 1.19 per shot

Against the rest of the L?
Ray shoots for the season:
1867 points/ 1494 total shots = 1.25

That 1.19 is Bruce is holding him down.


For his entire playoffs:
Ray went 1.35

But against the Spurs? 129 points / 108 shot = 1.19 looks
like Bruce kept him to where he was...Hurt or not hurt, the result stays the same.

Quote:

---

I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen.

---

Got you. I talked to Hank Egan for a few minutes and asked him who plays the best perimeter D and he said Bruce Bowen, then he added Tayshaun Prince because of his length. He said Artest was a strong positional player as well. So I asked 1 and he disagrees with your assesment.

Quote:

---

I assure you that Kobe will be in there - Iverson will be in there as will Larry Hughes, Mcgrady and a few others like T. Prince, Andre Kirileinko.

---

Aside from Prince and Kirilenko, the rest of those guys are people who accumulate steals. They're great at playing the passing lanes but when it comes down to locking it down? They don't. Why because they need to expend more energy on the O. That's just the way it is. They have their roles,Bruce has his.

Quote:

---

There will be no universal choice - maybe Artest but I doubt it. Bowen is good at what he does and he is effective but people won't pick him because they will be able to rest on defense. He doesnt make people work on defense so they save all their energy for offense.

---

That's why there is an ALL-NBA D team. The votes are cast wide and varied and for the last 4 years, the guy has been ALL-NBA D. Kobe's lack of D got him booted after 5 straight selections, Have you seen the la"K"ers record last season when they give up 100 points to an opponent? It sucked.. Welcome to not having an interior presence.

As for Kobe being able to lock up anybody anytime?
http://tinyurl.com/cy539
At the conclusion of that play, Phil called a timeout and berated the hell out of Kobe for his inability to lock Manu down. And thinking back to last season, outside of Michael Redd, the rest of the SG's he faced weren't locked down at all. Is it fair that he has to do that and run the offense too? Life's not fair, but hey he wanted his own team. He ain't all that and last season, he wasn't even ALL-NBA.

But hey whatever, just because you got to rep in mag YOUR OPINION. If Lang would've chosen me, I would've called it straight but I RECOGNIZE that there are DEFINED ROLES for EVERY player. Bruce's offensive game is limited to 2 reasons, Pop and then the fact that there are better options on the team. It's not like he can't score, it's more like as a 4.5 option, does he really need to shoot more? Only when that 3 is spot-on. Other than that, that defense is all Pop asks for, he asks the same of Rasho but, well...that's another long post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark Guymon

I wasn't too sold on R.C. Buford...

---

Hi, you must be new to Spurs fandom. Will you be needing a kiddie seat on the bandwagon? :baby

I am not new to anything as I have followed the Spurs since the 80's and played with or against most of them.

As for Man in Black - Jerome James is lazy and now that he got paid he has the potential to do an Issac Austin imitation - but he was killing the Spurs and can he really be worse than Rasho ? Seriously - and Isn't Ray an upgrade?

The Mavs - I don't know that they get their ase kicked - I mean 3 years back the Spurs were a Steve Kerr away from getting ousted by those Mavs and if Cuban had any patience to let his team gel and get some chemistry they would have been better off. 50+ games does not transalte to getting your ase kicked.

Bruce does play solid D and he is a pest - in your shirt defense but my opinion is my opinion and I will take Manu over Bowen and Bring Ray Allen on board. I would do it in a minute. Bowen is 34 years old remember and anybody who has that tall guy from the Virgin Islands behind them to back them up - doesn't have to produce anything on offense - well they can adfford to be aggressive on the jumpshot because they always - always have help with the drive on this roster. Yeah you can tell Bowen likes to play D because that is how he gets paid. that is his niche that sets him apart from other players. - as far as your list - alvin robertson and sidney moncrief gave it to you on the other end of the court too and I played against Alvin and his defense wasn't that great - saw my boy dwight govan light him up in city league for 40. Bruce does his job well on this team - but it is easier to play D on this team than most because of the structure and TIm - Bruce has been on 6 teams - which included being waived and signed by the heat numerous times - as well as the Celtics and traded to the bulls as a throw in and then waived. he was all D 1st team once - last year. - give me manu.

Dont birng statistics reflecting bruce against ray and then against the rest of the L - I am sure I could pull statistice for ray against a certain team that reflect he shoots worse against them - statistics are easily manipulated especially in the sense that you used them -- break them down by each team - not by the L

You found one out of 100's and you want to call it a day - money i asked andre miller and he said Billups. - and ask hank that in front of lebron and see what he says - besides isnt this his first year ?

Have you seen Kobes roster?> hell I hate Kobe but he is the best guard in the L and lets take a look at those statistics you like and all nba teams at the end of this year.

you put in one play of Manu rocking Kobe off the dribble around a pick? First off - I like Manu and he can go by anyone - bruce - kobe - whomever -- like I said - Kobe has the ability to lock anyone down.

Bruce cannot score - you think bruce has it in his game to take people off the dribble and create his own shot ? no and pop isn;t asking hardly anything of Rasho because Rasho can't seem to give it. Hence the Mohammed trade and I bet before the all-star break the spurs will make another move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

As for Man in Black - Jerome James is lazy and now that he got paid he has the potential to do an Issac Austin imitation - but he was killing the Spurs and can he really be worse than Rasho ? Seriously - and Isn't Ray an upgrade?

---

Are you truly this dense? I mean really? Do you just sit and play PlayStation or watch SportsCenter to reach opinions about the quality of NBA talent?

James was "destroying" the Spurs not because of anything he was doing, but because the Spurs struggled for one night to defend the pick and roll and James got 7 dunks. That had very little to do with Jerome James and everything to do with the Spurs constant struggles with pick and roll defense. It's not as if James was beating double teams or taking guys in the post. At that, James only had 3 rebounds in that game. Truly an amazing performance: 7 uncontested dunks and 3 rebounds. I'm convinced.

Actually, I'm not. So I went back to the numbers for that series -- yes, not just one, but all 6 games of it. Here are Jerome James' numbers for the entire series on a game-by-game basis:

Game 1: 2-8 FG; 4 pts; 2 reb.
Game 2: 4-9 FG; 8 pts; 7 reb.
Game 3: 7-7 FG; 15 pts; 3 reb. (this makes him a superstar, I guess)
Game 4: 0-6 FG; 4 pts; 6 reb. (so much for superstardom)
Game 5: 4-10 FG; 10 pts; 2 reb.
Game 6: 4-9 FG; 10 pts; 8 reb.

TOTAL: 21-49 FG (.429); 8.5 ppg; 4.7 rpg.

Now who wouldn't want a 7 footer who can shoot almost 43% from the floor and get almost 5 rebounds per game? And how on Earth could Rasho Nesterovic ever match that kind of output? I mean, has he ever played 6 games and accumulated such remarkable numbers? Ever?

Well, the answer to that question is, um-hum.

Here are Rasho's numbers from a stretch of 6 consecutive games in 2003-04 (which included 4 games against 2004 playoff teams), just one short season ago:

vs. DEN: 10-18 FG; 20 pts; 12 reb; 0 ast; 2 blk
vs. MEM: 9-12 FG; 18 pts; 10 reb; 1 ast; 5 blk
vs. SEA: 6-15 FG; 12 pts; 12 reb; 1 ast; 2 blk
vs. DAL: 6-12 FG; 13 pts; 15 reb; 5 ast; 7 blk
vs. PNX: 11-14 FG; 22 pts; 13 reb; 5 ast; 1 blk
vs. MEM: 6-13 FG; 13 pts; 13 reb.; 1 ast; 6 blk

TOTAL: 48-84 FG (.571); 16.3 ppg; 12.5 rpg; 2.2 apg; 3.8 bpg

I'll agree that Rasho won't always put up those kinds of numbers; hell, I'll agree that Rasho might never put up those kinds of numbers again. But, the fact is that he has done that in the NBA, and done it recently.

Did Rasho have a bad season in 2004-05? Absolutely.

Does it mean that one good game by Jerome James is somehow proof that James is better than Rasho? Absolutely not.

You'd have to be really unconcerned with what really matters to the Spurs style of basketball to not see that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

I agree with you on Bowen - that is what I said - but the main thing Ray was whining about was the way he jumped at his feet when he shot jumpers.

---

Ray was trying to gain an advantage by getting the Zebras to keep a closer eye on Bowen. In watching the way the games were called, it worked for a while. But as the series moved on, it became clear, it was the Sonics interior who were the thugs. Bruce was allowed more room to play tough defense, and Ray wilted like a pansey in the heat of crunch time. :elephant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Ray's percentage dropped because of his injury and I in no way shape or form take anything away from what Bowen does on the floor. I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen. I assure you that Kobe will be in there - Iverson will be in there as will Larru Hughes, Mcgrady and a few others like T. Prince, Andre Kirileinko. There will be no universal choice - maybe Artest but I doubt it. Bowen is good at what he does and he is effective but people won't pick him because they will be able to rest on defense. He doesnt make people work on defense so they save all thier energy for offense.

---

No wonder you take up for Ray's crying. To claim his "injury" caused his drop in production more than Bruce and company, is a laugh. As they say, birds of a feather ....

In game one, Ray did have a very minor tweak to his ankle. But his sitting like a little girl was more so because the Spurs were manhandling the Sonics, than some dilibating injury that should have kept him off the floor.

Ray was able to cut at will on his ankle for the rest of the series, This fact demonstrates his "injury" was not the cause of a drop in production. He was "Bowened" plain and simple. :hat

Ray let Bruce get completely in his head before the series even started. Look back at all the contact Ray tried to initiate and all the exaggerated flopping about from the slightest contact in a rather vain attempt to get the refs to take Bruce out of the game (considering the punishment doled out by the Sonics' big men, the impotence of his gesticulations were understandable). Ray probably took himself out of the game as much as Bruce's D did, but that was because of Bruce too.

The guy's info on 2 summers ago isn't quite accurately portrayed. The Spurs never even talked to Olowakandi and Pop rented a car and drove across 3 Republics of the former Yugoslavia to meet with Rasho as soon as possible. MAybe RC wasn't so hot on him, but Pop wanted him here alot. Rasho was at the top of Pop's list of FA's that summer.

Dude... Seriously... :lol I suggest you should take your mouth off of Manu's cock right now... While I agree that Manu's defense is underrated, Bowen at 35 still >> Manu

I'm surprised you haven't realized that 100% of the posters here disagree with your takes. Does that say anything to you?



And if you somehow think that you are Galileo Galilei... That it's you trying to convince the world that you are right... Well.... Theres one major difference between the both of you.... Galileo wasn't an idiot.

Bruce Bowen was a great defender prior to coming to the Spurs system.

His last season with Miami, he average 32 mpg and he was the only wing from the East to make the NBA All-Defensive Team that season. In fact, no true wings were on the 1st team. Christie and Bowen were the only ones and they were both on the 2nd team.

http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/awards0...#all-defensive

2000-01 NBA All-Defensive Team
(29 coaches select first and second teams by position - maximum 56 points)

First Team
Pos Player Points (first place votes)
G Jason Kidd (Pho) ........ 39 (14)
G Gary Payton (Sea) ....... 38 (17)
F Tim Duncan (SA) ......... 40 (19)
F Kevin Garnett (Min) ..... 24 (9)
C Dikembe Mutombo (Phi) ... 43 (19)

Second Team
Pos Player Points (first place votes)
G Kobe Bryant (LAL) ....... 26 (9)
G Doug Christie (Sac) ..... 20 (6)
F Bruce Bowen (Mia) ....... 18 (7)
F P.J. Brown (Cha) ........ 13 (4)
C Shaquille O'Neal (LAL) .. 17 (5)

You know you are wrong regarding something to do with Manu's game when the "Church of Manu" don't agree with you. Also, it's pretty obvious that the guy defending the article, is the guy that wrote the actual article, so he is coming on here and defending it.

How cool of him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

here is your link punk : http://slamonline.com/links/10032005/index1.html

dont question me - and if you don't think that ray allen and jerome james would be an upgrade to this roster you are as dumb as you appear.

It is funny you can call him ovary but if he was a Spur and Bowen was a Sonic you would be calling Bowen dirty - I guess you hate that Finley is here too - maybe he should be Uterus or fallopian tube because he complained more than Ray Allen ever did.

---

Very objective arguments. Wait, what is this? What is there to back up your statements? How about nothing?
The Spurs are based on defense, Ray Allen can't even compare to Bowen on defense. Ray Allen is better than Bowen on offense, and by a LOT, but the Spurs don't need any more offense, Duncan, Ginobili and Parker have that covered already.
Ray Allen requires screens to set him free, and he requires to ball to be effective. The Spurs don't run that sort of offense. So how would the Spurs adding Allen improve them? Care to back up your statements, MR. basketball genius?
I am not even going to address Jerome James, it's simply laughable.

Quote:

---

dont question me

---

Dude....you are in the wrong place for that.

It looks like I picked the wrong week to give up reading lame takes.

http://www.classicmovies.org/graphics/lloydbridges.jpg

childish - childish - childish - bowen is 35. - allen does not need any screens to get open - are you an idiot ? dude can and does create his own shots at will and the fact that a select group of people disagree with me doesn't affect me at all. that is the beauty of an opinion - especially one based on basketball talents of individual players - purely hyupothetical = besides - how can i respect your opinion when i would be busting your ase all day if we were to ever play ball ?