Slam Online: Spurs Preview

I wouldn't want any part of the trade proposed because I wouldn't touch Jerome James. What on Earth has James ever done. He's a 7 footer who averaged 3 rebounds per game last season and couldn't stay on the floor for 20 minutes a night.

He's got zero offensive game -- IF you can get him free on a pick-and-roll, he has a chance to score. But if teams deny him the roll and force him to do anything other than dunk (which he hasn't shown an ability to do outside of a pick-and-roll) he's completely useless offensively.

He's not very good defensively either. Say what you will about Rasho, but at least Rasho usually hits the boards and defends the rim. Given that Rasho has much, much more offensive game than James, there's no way that I'd take James over Rasho.

I also don't know why you'd want to add Ray Allen to this team. Ray is a tremendous shooter and a legitimate all-star, but if you bring him here, you have 2 guys who can do more or less the same things. Manu has better handles and plays much better defense than Ray; Ray is a better shooter than Manu. But only one of them can have the ball at any given time, and when either of them have the ball, Tim Duncan doesn't. Beyond that, what are you going to do defensively if you add Ray Allen? Are you going to play Ray or Manu against good offensive 3s (either will be overmatched in having to defend guys like Marion or Lebron -- and whichever one defends that guy is likely to struggle on the offensive end), or are you just going to concede points to those guys and hope, in Suns fashion, that you'll score enough points to win?

The beauty of the Finley deal is that Finley can play alongside Bowen and the Spurs won't lose defensive presence. If and when Finley plays alongside Manu, it won't be in long stretches and for those short periods, Finley is a perfect compliment as a spot-up three point shooter who will pretty much do that and that alone. With that, Finley is a better defender than Allen and is strong enough to battle with stronger wings while Bowen takes his rest. Ray Allen lacks that ability.

I appreciate the creativity, but I don't see that as a solution. Not that there's a problem.

Quote:

---

I work up in Dallas a lot and the sports guys up in Dallas say that Tim, Manu, Tony and Bowen all whine and cry about everything.

---

jealousy is a bitch! :lol

WHo you telling to shut up ?

I didn't think there was a problem either I think ray allen and michael finley are pretty much the same type of player except ray allen is much better. Ray could play with either bowen or manu and to you SPRRS man - Manu plays much better defense than Bowen - ask Kobe who he would rather have gaurd him - Manu or Bowen. Manu plays honest on ball defense and still gets in the passing lanes - helps and he will give it to you on the offensive end. I will take his defense over Bowens any day. - Ray averaged 24 points a game against the Spurs in the playoffs and he was hurt.

oh so when people say it about the spurs it is jealousy but when you say it is is gospel ?

Manu plays good defense...but he does in no way, shape, or form play better defense than Bowen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

WHo you telling to shut up ?

---

Feisty little fella, aren't ya?

Quote:

---

I didn't think there was a problem either I think ray allen and michael finley are pretty much the same type of player except ray allen is much better. Ray could play with either bowen or manu and to you SPRRS man - Manu plays much better defense than Bowen - ask Kobe who he would rather have gaurd him - Manu or Bowen. Manu plays honest on ball defense and still gets in the passing lanes - helps and he will give it to you on the offensive end. I will take his defense over Bowens any day. - Ray averaged 24 points a game against the Spurs in the playoffs and he was hurt.

---

Nothing sadder than an actual Spurs fan who doesn't appreciate what Bruce Bowen has done for our team.

In the first round, Ray averaged 32 ppg on 51% shooting. Against the Spurs, he averaged 21 ppg on 43% shooting. Of course he's going to get his points. Bowen's job is to make him work for it.

As for Manu's D being better than Bowen's D, that's laughable. Ask every coach and player in the NBA, and they'll tell you Bowen (along with Artest) are the top 2 perimeter defenders in the game.

I think Manu's D is underrated but IMO its not better than Bowen's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samikeyp

I think Manu's D is underrated but IMO its not better than Bowen's.

---

Manu's D isn't underrated when people say it's better than Bowen's.

:)

One thing I do agree with you on is that fans of other teams think that Manu and Tim whine just as much as Spurs fans think Ray whines.

The HUGE difference is that Manu and Tim never whine or complain in the press. Ray (as well as Vince Carter) has made that his M.O. and is laughed about around the league because of it. Many people within their organization have even said that he needs to concentrate on basketball and not complain to the press. He really let's Bowen get in his head.

Kori is right about the whining. There was even at time at a GTG when Kori and I were complaining about Tim. I think it was one of the regular season ones. Tim did something stupid and we were both basically saying "shut up and play" A lot of players tend to whine at times...even the best ones.

Ray's percentage dropped because of his injury and I in no way shape or form take anything away from what Bowen does on the floor. I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen. I assure you that Kobe will be in there - Iverson will be in there as will Larru Hughes, Mcgrady and a few others like T. Prince, Andre Kirileinko. There will be no universal choice - maybe Artest but I doubt it. Bowen is good at what he does and he is effective but people won't pick him because they will be able to rest on defense. He doesnt make people work on defense so they save all thier energy for offense.

Quote:

---

I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen.

---

I disagree. While neither you or I can guarantee that since we are not in on those conversations, Bowen is always mentioned in those discussions that are pubilshed and Kobe is usually not in there.

Did you even watch the Spurs playoffs?

Did you see Bowen shut down Carmelo, Marion, Rip and then Chauncey when called upon?

Kobe used to be considered a good defender.

Larry Hughes and Allen Iverson get steals, but they are not in the same breath with Artest or Bowen on perimeter D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

Ray's percentage dropped because of his injury and I in no way shape or form take anything away from what Bowen does on the floor. I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen. I assure you that Kobe will be in there - Iverson will be in there as will Larru Hughes, Mcgrady and a few others like T. Prince, Andre Kirileinko. There will be no universal choice - maybe Artest but I doubt it. Bowen is good at what he does and he is effective but people won't pick him because they will be able to rest on defense. He doesnt make people work on defense so they save all thier energy for offense.

---

????

Non sequitur...

Hell, this is real weird..I'm thinking closet laker fan maybe? Bruce can shut damn near anybody down.He should have won DPOY last season, and this guy is saying he's overated????Give ME a fucking break

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by implacable44

I can also guarantee you that if you asked any coach and or player in the NBA who plays the best perimeter defense they will not universally name Artest and Bowen.

---

And he came in second in DPOY because???

And yes Bowen is more of an offensive liability than say, Allen, but that's not what we're talking about. You're arguin that Manu is a better perimiter defender than Bowen, which isn't true. None of those other guys you named up there, with the exception or Artest, are better defenders than Bowen either. And if what you say about opposing players not working as hard on defense as on offense, then you're just praising Bowen even more because he still manages to stop them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Did you even watch the Spurs playoffs?

Did you see Bowen shut down Carmelo, Marion, Rip and then Chauncey when called upon?

Kobe used to be considered a good defender.

Larry Hughes and Allen Iverson get steals, but they are not in the same breath with Artest or Bowen on perimeter D.

---

Kobe can lock down ( no pun intended) anyone he wants to anytime.
Carmelo shuts himself down - look at his numbers - terrible shot selection - terrible choices period. Bruce did not shut down Chancey Billups - did you watch the playoffs ?

When did Shawn Marion or any of these guys become offensive juggernauts that you would write home about because you shut them down ?

Quote:

---

Bruce did not shut down Chancey Billups - did you watch the playoffs ?

---

He did when he was on him. He wasn't always guarding Chauncey. When he wasn't Chauncey went off....when he was, CB was just off.

Quote:

---

Bruce did not shut down Chancey Billups - did you watch the playoffs ?

---

Umm.. you apparently didn't. Bruce was switched onto Chauncey late in games (Parker guarded him the rest of the game while Bowen guarded Rip.) Bowen shut down Chauncey cold when he guarded him.

Marion averaged over 22 points a game in the first two playoff series --as much as players like Tim and Manu. Against Bowen he averaged 7.8 points a game.

So far you gave these excuses:

1. Ray was injured.
2. Carmelo shut himself down.
3. Bowen didn't shut down Chauncey.

So what's Marion's excuse?

Chauncey busted him up in the 4th quarter -

Non sequitur ? It doesnt follow to you that Bowen expends all of his energy on defense where somebody like Artest, Kobe, Mcgrady expend their energy on both ends ? Bruce is "self-check" you don't have to guard him.

You find me some poll of NBA Players somewhere that say Bruce is their toughest match up - let me see that link - or that proof. I know he can play defesne and he does it well ( a little dirty sometimes) but he does it well and he gets in a lot of folks head - vince carter - ray allen etc.. but the best defensive player in the game - no - I still would take Manu's defense over Bowens for perimeter players.

Quote:

---

Chauncey busted him up in the 4th quarter -

---

Name the game, plays and times.

You provide the proof.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Agree or disagree with the article but don't take it so personally.

---

ok.

so let me state right now that I disagree with about 30% of that article.
and I almost vomited at he thought of getting rid of Bowen in favor of ray i'm a big pussy allen.
yeah. I kinda verped.

Are you saying Ray wasn't injured?
are you saying Carmelo is a great offensive player ?

Let's take a better example - in 2003 when the Lakers beat the Spurs - how did Bowen do against Kobe ? Kobe lit him up. - repeatedly and I hate the Lakers because there are two teams I like - Spurs and Celtics (of the 80's mind you) and to be a fan of either team you must hate the Lakers.

Quote:

---

You find me some poll of NBA Players somewhere that say Bruce is their toughest match up -

---

show me one where he is not.

Quote:

---

the best defensive player in the game - no

---

then why is he all defense and why has he finished 2nd in the DPOY for two straight years.