Game Grades Nov. 9 Rockets at Spurs-L

First of all what a breath of fresh air it was to see Danny!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, these are the Spurs after 8 games:

Players	GP	MIN	OffRtg	DefRtg	NetRtg	AST%	AST/TO	AST Ratio	OREB%	DREB%	REB%	TO Ratio	eFG%	TS%	USG%	PACE	PIE
Danny Green	1	26	117.9	91.6	26.3	11.1	2.00	16.7	0.0	12.5	6.8	8.3	44.4	44.4	18.5	96.58	8.6
Patty Mills	8	24.1	118.4	99.2	19.2	24.2	5.17	28.3	2.8	5.3	4.0	5.5	58.7	61.4	17.9	97.47	11.0
Jonathon Simmons	8	23.4	108.4	89.2	19.2	15.3	1.80	19.8	1.7	12.9	7.1	11.0	45.5	49.2	17.2	96.15	8.2
Dewayne Dedmon	8	15.1	108.6	93.3	15.4	1.4	0.33	2.4	13.2	28.3	20.5	7.3	48.4	53.8	14.3	97.81	11.1
Kyle Anderson	8	20.4	108.5	99.2	9.2	6.8	2.00	23.6	2.1	19.7	10.8	11.8	40.5	43.4	7.5	94.73	6.8
David Lee	8	15.6	106.3	97.7	8.6	13.3	2.50	17.1	12.3	22.2	17.1	6.8	57.9	62.8	17.5	98.78	14.7
Kawhi Leonard	8	32.4	112.2	105.0	7.1	19.4	1.79	11.6	4.3	16.4	10.1	6.5	51.7	62.1	34.2	94.41	19.4
Manu Ginobili	7	19.8	111.7	104.9	6.8	17.0	1.33	18.7	1.6	21.9	10.6	14.0	39.4	46.8	21.4	101.84	7.9
LaMarcus Aldridge	7	30.3	108.5	104.7	3.8	6.3	0.78	5.2	8.4	16.6	12.4	6.7	47.1	53.4	28.4	93.94	11.2
Davis Bertans	6	12.5	95.4	92.3	3.0	2.2	0.33	5.0	4.1	10.6	7.2	15.0	43.8	43.8	11.0	97.26	2.2
Pau Gasol	8	21.9	106.6	108.9	-2.3	14.8	1.78	18.1	5.1	32.2	18.0	10.2	50.8	52.8	19.9	95.28	11.9
Nicolas Laprovittola	7	11.7	84.2	90.0	-5.8	30.8	1.50	27.8	1.3	7.2	4.4	18.5	47.6	53.9	17.2	99.31	7.2
Tony Parker	4	26.6	103.3	114.6	-11.3	22.9	2.67	33.2	0.0	9.2	4.3	12.4	37.5	42.0	14.8	91.44	3.2
Bryn Forbes	5	7.1	84.3	104.2	-19.9	5.3	0.00	11.8	0.0	5.7	2.8	0.0	42.9	47.0	9.8	92.71	2.8
Dejounte Murray	4	5.4	65.8	104.2	-38.4	22.2	1.00	14.5	0.0	8.7	4.3	14.5	37.5	41.0	25.5	94.06	0.0

There are good news there in that the Spurs players with the best net rating are young (not TOSB level)... therefore the team has some future apparently. But the bad news is that the young guys outside of Kawhi are not elite players and that knocks the team down from contender status. Kawhi, Patty and Danny are playing well, but after them and Lee, you are depending on developing players for key roles because your veterans are not rising to the occasion. That raises question marks and it does put pressure on those guys to grow up quickly, so we will just have to watch some growing pains in games.

The worst news is that the veteran guys that were paid to carry the team on their back don't look the part... Tony and Pau have been the worst rotation players and LMA hasn't been playing like a star. Anytime you need to bench Pau or LMA because one of them can't defend anybody and the other is fouling 3 pt shooters and getting in foul trouble early and you need to play Davis and Kyle in close games you have to brace yourself. As such, even though these two were underwhelming, I find it tough to shit on both when they were placed on situations due to the team's stars, veterans HoF players and former All-Stars, crapping all over the court in this game. :lol

So this sets the stage for grades.

Kawhi: B

I didn't like him in this game. He went full Kawhobe at times forcing up way too many bad shots. Some of those empty possessions allowed the Rockets to run right back and score off those misses. The excuse that he doesn't have scorers next to him is banal. Patty and Danny are good shooters, Simmons has been playing well, LMA and Pau are both scorers. The others one can criticize, but at any point Kawhi had teammates he could have gotten involved. At times there were no sets ran or anything called, sometimes not even a single screen. The ball didn't move when Kawhi had it. He won't win a lot of games that way. He will have to learn that he can score 30 points and will still end up losing games by freezing out other guys and reducing the chances that they can help him. I have seen better games from Kawhi and this one wasn't it. He missed the last shot to tie the game, but that doesn't color my grade. It's tough to have something like 34% usage and only end up with one assist bc you didn't pass the ball or even called up plays other than your own number every time you had the ball.

LMA: D

He started with his jumpshot not falling, and he didn't really seem to get going at any point. I only remember one of his 5 baskets as a putback from a KA miss. I don't even remember LMA other baskets, he didn't seem to impact this game offensively. He didn't rebound like he needs to either, but in fairness to him, Pop had him out in the perimeter a whole lot. He fouled two 3 pt shooters at the 3 point line, and missed the putback that would have tied the game at the end. Just an overall bad game from LMA. He did some things on defense with 2 steals and a block, and he did try to get others involved thus his 2 assists (but 3 TO), but overall he didn't play like a star.

Danny: A-

Not giving him a straight up A bc he shot 25% from 3 on 8 shots, but boy was he a breath of fresh air!!!!!! The ball moved with him in the lineup bc guys do look to feed him shots and unlike others guys I like, he doesn't pass up on those. :tu I have missed Danny a lot. He was tremendously impactful on defense. If he had been on with his 3 pt shooting he would have swung this game for the Spurs, but it's his first game back, he's got to catch his own rhythm and other than that, not a single bad thing one can say about Danny.

Patty: A-

Knocked his grade down a bit bc his shooting was off, but it's hard to find anything wrong with Patty this game either. He ended up with 10 assists and moved the ball really well. His presence generates a lot of ball movement bc of his activity off the ball, the guys look for him bc he's such an aggressive shooter, and when he has the ball, he's actively looking for a teammate at all times. He had a highlight pass in transition to Simmons, and a few nice passes to the bigs as well. I am liking Patty's evolution as a player more and more.

Pau: F---------

There was nothing good about Pau in this game. The slow defensive starts are because of him and he doesn't add anything to the SL if you don't give him a lot of touches on offense like the Spurs did in the Heat game, Pau's best game as a Spur. I swear in the first defensive possession a rebound flew right past him as he didn't make any effort to go grab it and he provides almost zilch rim protection. He got a lot of shots at the rim against him, he doesn't deter anybody. There was just nothing about Pau to like in this one.

Manu: C+

Manu competed. He tried on defense. He drew a charge and had 2 steals. His shots were not falling and so he forced the issue at times driving and being successful drawing fouls. One can tell the competitive fire is there, but he's not the player he once was and he's now looking his real age. He had many passes that went to the wrong places... and then he'd give you a good decision here or there with his passes... He wasn't a straight up dumpster fire in this game despite shooting 1-7. He had his moments and his aggression was needed... but it's alarming if this is the best of Manu the Spurs are getting for the season. The Manu fan needs to enjoy the retirement tour. It is definitely looking like this one is it.

Dedmon: Inc.

He only played 4 minutes. The one thing I noticed immediately was that the Spurs struggled to score for those 4 minutes and overall he was a -10. The spacing between him and Lee is problematic. I figure that was the reason for the benching bc the big to come out of the bench was Bertans, and though he didn't take a single shot, they Rockets did guard him at the 3 pt line, thus opening things up for others. It is my opinion that Pop wanted space for Manu and Simmons to run the PnR with Lee. But overall, these are just brief impressions from such as small stretch of play that anyone's guess is good as mine as to why he got benched.

Lee: A-

He had a TO from trying to push the ball off a rebound with his own dribble and trying a bounce pass to Kawhi. I thought that was him getting cute with it, and was not a good idea. Other than that, he was solid. He scored 10 points in 16 minutes and that was needed and will probably continue to be needed from him in the bench. I liked him in this game a lot.

Simmons: A

I thought he had a tremendous game. He picked his spots right, he pushed the ball in transition, the bread and butter of his game. He places a lot of pressure on the defense with his aggression trying to score. He didn't force bad passes to ppl who were covered, he had a nice pass to Lee, and he was very solid on defense. He has definitely improved a lot. His spin move from Danny's pass was gorgeous. He is the kind of guy who has always had highlight plays but I never warmed up to him bc the rest of his game was so lacking, but he is now starting to figure things out and fill out the rest of his game with solid play and I have warmed up to him. I'd like to see more of him when Manu is struggling. He's earned it. Spurs need this dude to continue to progress.

Anderson: C-

I have grown concerned for him bc it's evident to me he needs to be a more willing 3 pt shooter. He's worked on his shot and can shoot, but he needs a bit of the shooter's mentality. He's going to have to become more aggressive with that shot. If he needs dleague for that, I'd send him for a game or two to run PnP with Dijon all game to Austin... but I can't see that happening bc they can't spare him when the Spurs are so thin in their frontcourt... so he's going to have to develop in games and I suspect his growing pains will continue to exasperate many, so whatevaaaa.

The reason I give him a C-, is that despite all of that, he can still help you, which is why I still hope he puts some kind of offensive game together. Despite him not playing well on offense, I cannot in good conscience give him a D or F, when there were worst bigs on the floor in this game. In his few minutes, he grabbed boards, generated a steal + boxed out guys to allow his teammates to rebound. But to get above a C- level, he's going to have to bring something offensively, and he didn't here.

Bertans: D-

He had a bad line: 0 on everything but 1 rebound and 1 foul in 10 minutes. He didn't get shots, but at least the Rockets respected him as a shooter and they guarded him. He provided space for teammates to slash immediately. I thought he had a couple of nice defensive possessions, he's not easy to blow by if his feet positioning is good and he defended in the perimeter quite well. I gave him a D bc I saw some things that he can build upon, even though he scratched nada in this game.

Laprovittola: C+

I like Lapro a lot personally. I know there are doubts out there with him, but he's a rook. I liked his aggressiveness and he's a creative passer. I think with sufficient playing time he will improve just by having more chemistry with teammates and confidence. His drives to the rim and baskets were crafty and unexpected. I can't give him anything above a C bc Ennis went right at him for example and his defense is not where it needs to be. But he does compete and has the fire to show up for games. I thought he competed hard in this one.

Pop: B

I didn't get the sense Pop was punting this game. He was trying to win this game, thus the benching of Pau, throwing Bertans out there to see if he could get some 3 pt shots rolling, subbing him for Kyle when he wasn't shooting but not adding anything on defense. I think Pop tried, but he's getting to the point he's limited by the personnel he has and their respective flaws and limitations.

Anyone getting a better grade than Kawhi. :lmao

Pretty good set of grades overall.

Regardless of what the fanboys say, that wasn't an MVP-caliber performance by Kawhi. And I think you have to adjust the grade at least a little for a guy who is expected to be one of the best players in the league. Just like Simmons, who is expected to be a scrub, should probably get some consideration that he isn't going to have a 30-10 game. I think that was probably a B performance for Kawhi last night. If he had an A performance, the Spurs would have won.

I'm starting to feel about Manu the same way I did about Tim last season. I keep thinking he has another gear, and that he will kick it in and we'll see the player we used to see. It's starting to sink in that this may be as good as it gets. He can't get the corner on his own any more, and he can't weave through traffic in the paint like he used to. He tried to throw a wrap-around pass to LMA last night, near the end of the half, and it missed LMA completely and sailed out the end line. It looked to me like he just wasn't fast/athletic enough to get enough clearance around the defender to get that pass around him.

I'm back to hoping for 50 games.

Thanks for the grades.

Awful grades.

Thanks for the grades SAG:tu

This obviously took a lot of effort, SAG, and thanks for putting it in.

I don't disagree with the grades. This game was certainly a learning experience. The Spurs need to diversify their offense. Even if you want Kawhi to use up like 30-plus possessions, they don't have to be isos. Run him off screens. Have him roll. Do something that actually puts pressure on five guys as opposed to one or two.

Simmons was great because he was doing exactly what the team needed which was to pick his spots and to be aggressive in those spots. Bertans becoming passive concerns me. There is something Pop isn't doing right. Dude was fearless in Europe. Patty and Lee is a good combo, so if he goes back to the bench there's hope there.

I'll be happy if Kawhi can get us to the 2nd round with our current roster. I know some idiots here want to compare him to Lebron but let's remember LeBron has played most of his career in a very weak Eastern Conference. Spurs might be the 4th or 5th best team out West if we're being completely honest with ourselves. We might be able to pull of a run to the WCF but I just don't see it happening with Pau and LMA. It's early though and Pau has stated that he's still learning how to play within the system so I guess we'll see how it goes.

The ball is not moving. Kawhi is efficient, but the problem with this whole offense is that it is not putting the other team's players on their heels.
When the Spurs played beautiful basketball the opposing players just were too exhausted of chasing after the ball and therefore could not run it down our throats.

Appreciated the effort you put there SAG :tu..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fireball

The ball is not moving. Kawhi is efficient, but the problem with this whole offense is that it is not putting the other team's players on their heels.
When the Spurs played beautiful basketball the opposing players just were too exhausted of chasing after the ball and therefore could not run it down our throats.

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Spurs are too old and slow now to run the beautiful game. I understand some people might be frustrated with Kawhis play but I'm sure he has the green light to do whatever he wants out there. Maybe Pop sees something that we don't. I'm pretty sure if Pop thought the beautiful game could still work he would have implemented it already. Those days might be long gone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

Pretty good set of grades overall.

Regardless of what the fanboys say, that wasn't an MVP-caliber performance by Kawhi. And I think you have to adjust the grade at least a little for a guy who is expected to be one of the best players in the league. Just like Simmons, who is expected to be a scrub, should probably get some consideration that he isn't going to have a 30-10 game. I think that was probably a B performance for Kawhi last night. If he had an A performance, the Spurs would have won.

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Absolutely!
The grades are conmensurate with what one expects from the player. For example, I expect Danny to be the best version of himself, Kawhi and LMA to be their best version etc. I compare them to themselves not in respect to each other. Ultimately one wants the players as a fan to be the best player they can be. That wasn't Kawhi's best game, and it was far from the best game for many others...

Thanks for clearing the air on that GSH. :tu I graded Simmons in comparison to his previous games. The GSW was his absolute game, but since then, he had been unable to put together a game he was positively impactful on both ends, making good decisions. I thought he did a good job in this one... in comparison to himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

This obviously took a lot of effort, SAG, and thanks for putting it in.

I don't disagree with the grades. This game was certainly a learning experience. The Spurs need to diversify their offense. Even if you want Kawhi to use up like 30-plus possessions, they don't have to be isos. Run him off screens. Have him roll. Do something that actually puts pressure on five guys as opposed to one or two.

Simmons was great because he was doing exactly what the team needed which was to pick his spots and to be aggressive in those spots. Bertans becoming passive concerns me. There is something Pop isn't doing right. Dude was fearless in Europe. Patty and Lee is a good combo, so if he goes back to the bench there's hope there.

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Why is it on Pop though? Why can't it be maybe the guy isn't ready for the moment of playing in the NBA, which does happen. I highly doubt Pop is out there telling him to be passive or to not be aggressive. And considering the lineups he was out there with, him being aggressive surely would've been welcomed by Pop. He's gotta be confident in himself first and foremost, not only in garbage time, but in time that counts too

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Why is it on Pop though? Why can't it be maybe the guy isn't ready for the moment of playing in the NBA, which does happen. I highly doubt Pop is out there telling him to be passive or to not be aggressive. And considering the lineups he was out there with, him being aggressive surely would've been welcomed by Pop. He's gotta be confident in himself first and foremost, not only in garbage time, but in time that counts too

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I say that because Bertans didn't lack for confidence previously. But it can also be his fault. But too many players this year are struggling with confidence. And that's a usual thing for the Spurs newbies. Pop can't afford it this year.

#27 laprovita is decent but at times with him man pau out there its omg what do you expect if other teams run them off court with speed and athleticism....i don't see why murry wouldn't get a change to bring some youth and all the good things that brings to the line up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

Pretty good set of grades overall.

Regardless of what the fanboys say, that wasn't an MVP-caliber performance by Kawhi. And I think you have to adjust the grade at least a little for a guy who is expected to be one of the best players in the league. Just like Simmons, who is expected to be a scrub, should probably get some consideration that he isn't going to have a 30-10 game. I think that was probably a B performance for Kawhi last night. If he had an A performance, the Spurs would have won.

I'm starting to feel about Manu the same way I did about Tim last season. I keep thinking he has another gear, and that he will kick it in and we'll see the player we used to see. It's starting to sink in that this may be as good as it gets. He can't get the corner on his own any more, and he can't weave through traffic in the paint like he used to. He tried to throw a wrap-around pass to LMA last night, near the end of the half, and it missed LMA completely and sailed out the end line. It looked to me like he just wasn't fast/athletic enough to get enough clearance around the defender to get that pass around him.

I'm back to hoping for 50 games.

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Endorse.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Absolutely!
The grades are conmensurate with what one expects from the player. For example, I expect Danny to be the best version of himself, Kawhi and LMA to be their best version etc. I compare them to themselves not in respect to each other. Ultimately one wants the players as a fan to be the best player they can be. That wasn't Kawhi's best game, and it was far from the best game for many others...

Thanks for clearing the air on that GSH. :tu I graded Simmons in comparison to his previous games. The GSW was his absolute game, but since then, he had been unable to put together a game he was positively impactful on both ends, making good decisions. I thought he did a good job in this one... in comparison to himself.

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Anyone who's not trying to troll knows grades are being curved. We have all done it since at least Apa's post. Even so, Kawhi deserved to be dinged for grinding the offense to a halt when he was in. As I said in another thread, the Spurs had no problem scoring when he was on the bench

Man Chinook is a fucking retard. One of the biggest uneducated posters on this site. The shit he says goes on for days. :lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I say that because Bertans didn't lack for confidence previously. But it can also be his fault. But too many players this year are struggling with confidence. And that's a usual thing for the Spurs newbies. Pop can't afford it this year.

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I don't think it's a Pop thing though, cause we saw him play with confidence in other games when the games were pretty much sealed. Confidence has to come from within. Pop is showing confidence by playing him when he did, I think he brought him in fairly early last night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dabom

Man Chinook is a fucking retard. One of the biggest uneducated posters on this site. The shit he says goes on for days. :lmao

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But the spurs would be better with Kawhi shooting less : cry...

Pnly way the spurs winning last night id
s if kawhi took 50 shots tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

I don't think it's a Pop thing though, cause we saw him play with confidence in other games when the games were pretty much sealed. Confidence has to come from within. Pop is showing confidence by playing him when he did, I think he brought him in fairly early last night.

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He did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

But the spurs would be better with Kawhi shooting less : cry...

Pnly way the spurs winning last night id
s if kawhi took 50 shots tbh.

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He'd rather lose by 20. :lol

Thanx for the grades..

Enjoyed the grades :toast

I'm not crazy about giving letter grades because it is so subjective, but the site seems to want it so whatever. The most important part of course is how the grader saw the game and the relative contributions of the players. Again, it is subjective and is the basis for the letter grades. I think these comments by all our graders are useful for comparison to our own opinions (if we are open to comparisons and other opinions than our own).

Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to share and I thought most of your opinions were good analysis. Keep doing them.

this is a lot of work, nice

Thanks for the grades and effort. I thought you described the game well. I'm hoping they study the tape and see they need to get others involved. I'm enjoying seeing Nico out there and have confidence in his shot. He would have had some nice assist if people weren't missing wide open shots. :toast

Thanks for the time and effort to provide ST with your grades. :toast

Good work :tu

Laprovittola has to go back!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

This obviously took a lot of effort, SAG, and thanks for putting it in.

I don't disagree with the grades. This game was certainly a learning experience. The Spurs need to diversify their offense. Even if you want Kawhi to use up like 30-plus possessions, they don't have to be isos. Run him off screens. Have him roll. Do something that actually puts pressure on five guys as opposed to one or two.

Simmons was great because he was doing exactly what the team needed which was to pick his spots and to be aggressive in those spots. Bertans becoming passive concerns me. There is something Pop isn't doing right. Dude was fearless in Europe. Patty and Lee is a good combo, so if he goes back to the bench there's hope there.

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Wasn't able to watch the game but in the few minutes I've seen of Bertans, he has seemed hesitant to let it fly. Heading into the season it seemed as though he might have a rotation spot at some point, but with Simmons and Anderson ahead of him on the wing, I wonder if he is concerned about getting the short hook, when he does play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

I don't think it's a Pop thing though, cause we saw him play with confidence in other games when the games were pretty much sealed. Confidence has to come from within. Pop is showing confidence by playing him when he did, I think he brought him in fairly early last night.

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One criticism I have with Pop is that if his shooters are not getting shots, he will need to call up a play for them like he's done for Danny and Mills at times, when due to the way the game was developing, a long time relatively speaking had passed without them getting a 3 pt shot out. Pop understands that he needs the 3 pt shot to win games and sometimes selectively spoon feeds it to someone.

For both guys, they need to be aggressive with their shots, but if that is not happening, then a play needs to be called to get them a shot. I suspect Pop is watching players play this early (he famously said he wasn't coaching LMA for the first half of last season for example and was just observing him, and he has indicated one of the things he watches is how guys play with each other and fit next to each other). Lack of chemistry and trust in teammates made it so that there is not enough involvement of new guys, or screening for each other.

Good grades and thanks for sharing.

I agree on Kawhi receiving not having an A. He needs to get others involved, period. If he wants to be the leader of this team, he needs to make players around him play better. We all love his improvement with season, but we might have jumped into conclusions too soon. I don't really like this Kobe version of him, taking 20+ shots game after game while having more turnovers than assists and collecting accolades of the best defensive player, or the best two way player in the league.

Nice effort. I... passed out? I don't know. I don't remember the 2nd half and I honestly don't think I watched it.
I did end up at home this time though, when I woke up. Thank God for small favors.

Neymar A++ for beating Messi-led Argentina..

It'll take a while for this team to gel and play consistent basketball. Currently, I'm more disappointed in our vets. They should be able to hold the fort until the new/young guys get acclimated to the playbook. They just haven't stepped up.

Thanks for the grades.

4 A's, 5 if you want to bump Leonard up. And we lost.

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Originally Posted by tbdog

4 A's, 5 if you want to bump Leonard up. And we lost.

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Because two of the guys the team counts on heavily (Gasol and LMA) played poorly. Maybe Pop's grade needs to be reduced bc some argue he should have played Danny and Simmons more, less Manu... anyways, it's subjective, but the game was close and winnable bc some guys played well. When your stars don't show up and can't stay on the floor and you are asking roleplayers to up their game or Kawhi to consume nearly 40% of the possessions when he's on the floor and compound that with bad shot selection, the team was in trouble.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Because two of the guys the team counts on heavily (Gasol and LMA) played poorly. Maybe Pop's grade needs to be reduced bc some argue he should have played Danny and Simmons more, less Manu... anyways, it's subjective, but the game was close and winnable bc some guys played well. When your stars don't show up and can't stay on the floor and you are asking roleplayers to up their game or Kawhi to consume nearly 40% of the possessions when he's on the floor and compound that with bad shot selection, the team was in trouble.

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All of this makes me depressed, but also sad. Many of us loved rooting for a team with several good - if not "first" - options. Watching what Kahistorm calls "Melo 2.0 offense" is pretty sad.

It is quite apparent that the greatness of TD masked some pretty poor decisions by PATFO through the years. And now the team's cupboard is very bare. Pop will try to get past that by overusing Kawhi. It is like Kawhi has become Pop's own personal tool to prove the validity of the Peter Principle. :depressed

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Originally Posted by RD2191

I'll be happy if Kawhi can get us to the 2nd round with our current roster. I know some idiots here want to compare him to Lebron but let's remember LeBron has played most of his career in a very weak Eastern Conference. Spurs might be the 4th or 5th best team out West if we're being completely honest with ourselves.

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Considering the way Softridge/Pau/Manu/Porker are playing this team isn't better than the 2013 OKC squad that lost in the 2nd rd to the Grizzlies when Durant had to roll solo w/o WestBrick.

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Originally Posted by sasaint

It is quite apparent that the greatness of TD masked some pretty poor decisions by PATFO through the years.

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That's a little strong. Actually, that's a lot strong. As much recognition as Tim got, he was still under-rated by most. But... the team still has to put 5 players on the floor for 48 minutes a night. The Spurs' FO managed put winning teams together, on a small-market budget. And they managed to never have a rebuilding year (or two, or three) for the entire Tim Duncan era. That part is freaking amazing, if not unprecedented.

Tim carried the team, no doubt. And people are starting to get a better understanding of that. But in the age of the salary cap, the Spurs FO gave him an incredibly consistent supporting cast. One of the biggest things we are seeing is the result of the Spurs investing heavily in the last few years of Tim's career, in an attempt to keep that consistency going and give him another chance to carry them to one more Championship. After the near-miss in '13, and the Championship in '14, they pretty much had to keep it together to try and repeat.

The point is, the FO made a BUNCH of great moves for almost two decades. Then in the last few years, they pretty much did what they had to do. This year, they pretty much took what they could get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sasaint

All of this makes me depressed, but also sad. Many of us loved rooting for a team with several good - if not "first" - options. Watching what Kahistorm calls "Melo 2.0 offense" is pretty sad.

It is quite apparent that the greatness of TD masked some pretty poor decisions by PATFO through the years. And now the team's cupboard is very bare. Pop will try to get past that by overusing Kawhi. It is like Kawhi has become Pop's own personal tool to prove the validity of the Peter Principle. :depressed

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Manu, Parker and Kawhi were steals. You dont win 5 rings with only one great player. Also....its an end of an era, lets admit it, and expecting a smooth transition into a new one with another ring are unheard of unless you are the Celtics of the 60s, 70s, and 80's. We have to wait out Manus, and Parkers belief that they can contribute meaningfully as every fading star feels he can do....and some actually do like Duncan. Having said that LMA should be contributing a whole lot more and as of now, agree that RC Buford may have made a mistake on this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

That's a little strong. Actually, that's a lot strong. As much recognition as Tim got, he was still under-rated by most. But... the team still has to put 5 players on the floor for 48 minutes a night. The Spurs' FO managed put winning teams together, on a small-market budget. And they managed to never have a rebuilding year (or two, or three) for the entire Tim Duncan era. That part is freaking amazing, if not unprecedented.

Tim carried the team, no doubt. And people are starting to get a better understanding of that. But in the age of the salary cap, the Spurs FO gave him an incredibly consistent supporting cast. One of the biggest things we are seeing is the result of the Spurs investing heavily in the last few years of Tim's career, in an attempt to keep that consistency going and give him another chance to carry them to one more Championship. After the near-miss in '13, and the Championship in '14, they pretty much had to keep it together to try and repeat.

The point is, the FO made a BUNCH of great moves for almost two decades. Then in the last few years, they pretty much did what they had to do. This year, they pretty much took what they could get.

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Preach. Makes me want to raise my hands to the sky. Tell me what it is... Gee whiz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

That's a little strong. Actually, that's a lot strong. As much recognition as Tim got, he was still under-rated by most. But... the team still has to put 5 players on the floor for 48 minutes a night. The Spurs' FO managed put winning teams together, on a small-market budget. And they managed to never have a rebuilding year (or two, or three) for the entire Tim Duncan era. That part is freaking amazing, if not unprecedented.

Tim carried the team, no doubt. And people are starting to get a better understanding of that. But in the age of the salary cap, the Spurs FO gave him an incredibly consistent supporting cast. One of the biggest things we are seeing is the result of the Spurs investing heavily in the last few years of Tim's career, in an attempt to keep that consistency going and give him another chance to carry them to one more Championship. After the near-miss in '13, and the Championship in '14, they pretty much had to keep it together to try and repeat.

The point is, the FO made a BUNCH of great moves for almost two decades. Then in the last few years, they pretty much did what they had to do. This year, they pretty much took what they could get.

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Yeah, PATFO obviously made some (okay, a BUNCH) of good moves. But they obviously made a bunch of lame moves, too, or the cupboard would not be as bare as it is. For one thing, the team's draft strategies were always a real frustration/concern (I suspect for you, too). In the Duncan era, they basically hit on one draft pick (Hill) which they parlayed into their other hit. I know that you must also lament some guys they let get away so they could keep the likes of Bonner. That was some pretty poor decision-making.

I really didn't like their decisions the last two off-seasons. But, man you make it sound like this off-season Gasol was the only option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RD2191

Spurs might be the 4th or 5th best team out West if we're being completely honest with ourselves.

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I knew that in the offseason, but I let myself get caught up in those first few games the Spurs played and just went stupid. The Spurs could scratch and claw their way to the 4th or even 3rd record in the West, if they really get it together. But even if they did, they are a mid-tier team in decline. Pau, Parker, and Manu have a combined 44 years of NBA experience. (People talk about Manu being old, but I think most forget that Pau has been around a year longer than him.) If the Spurs could field the EXACT same team next season, they wouldn't get better because of playing together. They would be worse, because those guys are at the ends of their careers.

That's why I was arguing for tanking this season and rebuilding. Because they were going to have to do it soon enough anyway. The starting PG, starting C, and perennial 6th Man are all near the bottom of the downhill slope. There's no future in that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Yeah, PATFO obviously made some (okay, a BUNCH) of good moves. But they obviously made a bunch of lame moves, too, or the cupboard would not be as bare as it is. For one thing, the team's draft strategies were always a real frustration/concern (I suspect for you, too). In the Duncan era, they basically hit on one draft pick (Hill) which they parlayed into their other hit. I know that you must also lament some guys they let get away so they could keep the likes of Bonner. That was some pretty poor decision-making.

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The draft-and-stash mostly made sense. The Spurs were so strong in those years that a 29-30 draft pick rookie had virtually no chance of contributing. Sign a first round pick, and you're obligated to put them on the roster, or else renounce them. At least with a stash, there's a chance of getting them back after they've developed. Ian was an almost, and Splitter was pretty damned good.

Signing Jackie Butler was one of the worst, most costly moves in the Duncan era. But I remember a number of articles that said that the Spurs had one of the best off-seasons, because of that signing. That lazy bastard just got his contract and retired. I don't think anybody could see that coming.

Signing Jefferson looked good on paper. I said from the day they announced it that his game wasn't a good fit and didn't make sense with that roster, as did a number of people here. But that was another case where he may have been the best player available that the Spurs could reasonably get.

Roger Mason Jr.? He was another budget signing. And he could shoot 3's often enough that it's no mystery why they put him on the roster. He played in all 82 games his first season, and shot something like .420 from 3P. There's no way of knowing that a guy will go to shit in the playoffs until he gets there. They only had to pay him $3.5M, and that looked like a bargain through his first regular season.

Shit, you could go on and on. Diaw? Baynes? Belinelli? Mills? Danny Green? Stephen Jackson? Bruce Bowen? But the Spurs have gotten a hell of a lot from budget players over the years. Some stuck and got paid, and some they couldn't afford to keep. But damn. The league is full of guys who have been min players on the Spurs' rosters. They've been pretty damned good at spotting and signing budget talent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

I knew that in the offseason, but I let myself get caught up in those first few games the Spurs played and just went stupid. The Spurs could scratch and claw their way to the 4th or even 3rd record in the West, if they really get it together. But even if they did, they are a mid-tier team in decline. Pau, Parker, and Manu have a combined 44 years of NBA experience. (People talk about Manu being old, but I think most forget that Pau has been around a year longer than him.) If the Spurs could field the EXACT same team next season, they wouldn't get better because of playing together. They would be worse, because those guys are at the ends of their careers.

That's why I was arguing for tanking this season and rebuilding. Because they were going to have to do it soon enough anyway. The starting PG, starting C, and perennial 6th Man are all near the bottom of the downhill slope. There's no future in that.

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Looks like they are tanking this season - just with an old guy who will opt in and keep them in the tank next season, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

The draft-and-stash mostly made sense. The Spurs were so strong in those years that a 29-30 draft pick rookie had virtually no chance of contributing. Sign a first round pick, and you're obligated to put them on the roster, or else renounce them. At least with a stash, there's a chance of getting them back after they've developed. Ian was an almost, and Splitter was pretty damned good.

Signing Jackie Butler was one of the worst, most costly moves in the Duncan era. But I remember a number of articles that said that the Spurs had one of the best off-seasons, because of that signing. That lazy bastard just got his contract and retired. I don't think anybody could see that coming.

Signing Jefferson looked good on paper. I said from the day they announced it that his game wasn't a good fit and didn't make sense with that roster, as did a number of people here. But that was another case where he may have been the best player available that the Spurs could reasonably get.

Roger Mason Jr.? He was another budget signing. And he could shoot 3's often enough that it's no mystery why they put him on the roster. He played in all 82 games his first season, and shot something like .420 from 3P. There's no way of knowing that a guy will go to shit in the playoffs until he gets there. They only had to pay him $3.5M, and that looked like a bargain through his first regular season.

Shit, you could go on and on. Diaw? Baynes? Belinelli? Mills? Danny Green? Stephen Jackson? Bruce Bowen? But the Spurs have gotten a hell of a lot from budget players over the years. Some stuck and got paid, and some they couldn't afford to keep. But damn. The league is full of guys who have been min players on the Spurs' rosters. They've been pretty damned good at spotting and signing budget talent.

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I am more troubled by their recent judgment/strategy/track record. Yes, they have gotten very good value off the scrap heap. They are much better at player reclamation than player development.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sasaint

Looks like they are tanking this season - just with an old guy who will opt in and keep them in the tank next season, too.

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LMAO. Not exactly the way I envisioned it, but it could sure turn out that way.

Speaking of Pau opting in. I didn't expect him to be Tim Duncan, but I really thought he would play better than this. If things keep going this way, maybe Pop moving him to the bench would piss him off enough to move on next year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

LMAO. Not exactly the way I envisioned it, but it could sure turn out that way.

Speaking of Pau opting in. I didn't expect him to be Tim Duncan, but I really thought he would play better than this. If things keep going this way, maybe Pop moving him to the bench would piss him off enough to move on next year.

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Win-win, no?

Lapro played great. Manu was terrible. Simmons should've gotten more minutes.

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

Lapro played great. Manu was terrible. Simmons should've gotten more minutes.

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I agree... I really didn't like Manu and TBH I haven't liked Manu at all this season. If I am even more honest I think he takes development opportunities from younger players who have talent and he's not going to move the needle here nor there. But I threw a bone to his fans and his way, same way some guys have thrown a bone to a guy I like who hasn't been exactly playing well... I curved grades so that if the player helped in some way conmensurate with what one expects they more or less came out to a C.. so I had to reward Manu for his effort. One cannot doubt he tries...

I may incite the ire of many and a lot of trolling if I take that any further... but yes, I agree Manu has been bad.

Thanks for the grades, girl! Nice work! :tu

For some criticism on the grades that I read, we should understand that the grades are views of the game/players' performances influenced by subjective and personal interpretations.

That's why I never criticize them, I just thanks for the time and the work because I enjoy reading other people's view, even if I don't agree with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Kawhi: B He will have to learn that he can score 30 points and will still end up losing games by freezing out other guys and reducing the chances that they can help him.

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I think that some people are expecting an evolution of Kawhi's game in a way that's not natural for him. He's a scorer, an-Iso/Mid-j scorer.

He's not a point-forward and we can't excpect he turns into full LeBron, we should look at his game more at a more efficient Kobe's type.

In this league, especially against Western Conference backcourts, it's pretty obvious that Kawhi needs a consistent playmaker around him. He can't do it all and needs help.
Sadly, the Spurs don't have that guy. Our two best playmakers are a 39 years old and a starting point guard who's past his prime.

And the Spurs' off-season's decisions didn't fill this big whole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sasaint

All of this makes me depressed, but also sad. Many of us loved rooting for a team with several good - if not "first" - options.

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So you didn't watch the Spurs in their almost a seven years of Tim's 4-down. They didn't have that many options until Parker/Manu improvements in 2005.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skulls138

Manu, Parker and Kawhi were steals. You dont win 5 rings with only one great player.

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On these times of superteams, except LMA, I wonder where are the prime Parker/Manu of Kawhi...Tim had two elite guards, top 5 in the league at their positions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alpha_HaZE;8790687I

don't really like this Kobe version of him, taking 20+ shots game after game while having more turnovers than assists and collecting accolades of the best defensive player, or the best two way player in the league.

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Really? Kawhi averages 3.1 apg and 1.8 tpg.

He increased his USG% and apg this season (2.6 last season) but his TO per game looks almost identical to last season (1.5)

That makes him so unique in the league, there aren't many players increasing FGA,USG% and PPG, and still keeping TO that low.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

One criticism I have with Pop is that if his shooters are not getting shots.

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What's about his late-game decisions? Just to give the ball to Kawhi?. Most of times it have worked cause Kawhi is great at it, but where are the 'elaborated' plays to help him?

-4 and Kawhi got a bucket, -2 and Kawhi missed the last shot.

But even when that last Kawhi's play was really good because he didn't set for a jumper, instead of that he was strong driving, attacking the hoop, every play Pop called in order to close the game was an Iso-play.

Where are the screens to help Kawhi, where is a play that move the ball to find Kawhi in a better position to get the bucket? It's just Kawhi trying to figure out how to win the game by himself.

And then most people criticize Kawhi's Kobe-form. For real, guys?? That's the way that Pop plays him now.

Also, in the last 6 seasons, I can't remember a game where Pop called a successful play to win a close game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GSH

That's a little strong. Actually, that's a lot strong. As much recognition as Tim got, he was still under-rated by most. But... the team still has to put 5 players on the floor for 48 minutes a night. The Spurs' FO managed put winning teams together, on a small-market budget. And they managed to never have a rebuilding year (or two, or three) for the entire Tim Duncan era. That part is freaking amazing, if not unprecedented.

Tim carried the team, no doubt. And people are starting to get a better understanding of that. But in the age of the salary cap, the Spurs FO gave him an incredibly consistent supporting cast. One of the biggest things we are seeing is the result of the Spurs investing heavily in the last few years of Tim's career, in an attempt to keep that consistency going and give him another chance to carry them to one more Championship. After the near-miss in '13, and the Championship in '14, they pretty much had to keep it together to try and repeat.

The point is, the FO made a BUNCH of great moves for almost two decades. Then in the last few years, they pretty much did what they had to do. This year, they pretty much took what they could get.

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Good stuff. For a counterexample that further proves your point, look at KG's tenure in Minnesota. KG wasn't as good as Tim but he was easily good enough to make the WCF more than once with even decent FO work.

Hey YGWHI!

I think these early season experiments with Kiwi are a necessity. He needs to take over late in games. I am sure all of these growing pains are aimed at the postseason. It's things Pop will look at with him and then decide upon adjustments. I suspect heavily that what we see is indeed Pop's wish in the sense that he wants Kawhi to use all of those possessions to refine and improve decision making, etc. Even if he's not a point forward (and I agree he's not) he's going to have the ball late in the game to take his shots, but also decide on his own when it's better to pass out of a bad shot situation. It's a process I guess.

I actually agree that Pop's system has been clunky. I suppose lack of chemistry, all the different new faces he's added, guys in and out of lineups with roles that change constantly, etc all of that affects chemistry. Kawhi himself has been consistent, but others around him are still finding their roles and shots. It's a good point. I would expect Pop to address that with time, specially deciding how they are going to use Pau. He's kind of going underutilized and they paid too much to not take advantage of him as best they can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

LMA: D

He started with his jumpshot not falling, and he didn't really seem to get going at any point. I only remember one of his 5 baskets as a putback from a KA miss. I don't even remember LMA other baskets, he didn't seem to impact this game offensively. He didn't rebound like he needs to either, but in fairness to him, Pop had him out in the perimeter a whole lot. He fouled two 3 pt shooters at the 3 point line, and missed the putback that would have tied the game at the end. Just an overall bad game from LMA. He did some things on defense with 2 steals and a block, and he did try to get others involved thus his 2 assists (but 3 TO), but overall he didn't play like a star.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by skulls138

Having said that LMA should be contributing a whole lot more and as of now, agree that RC Buford may have made a mistake on this one.

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It wasn't a mistake because the Spurs did what any other team would do, to sign the best FA in the market.

But they sacrificed depth and didn't fill the biggest/immediate needs.

However, this same Iso-Mid-range shooting offense won 67 games last season, maybe they tought they didn't need to make great moves.

Also, it seems like LMA was bringing more energy last season...That's why I wonder how much those 'false' rumors affected the team-chemistry.

LMA's and Kawhi's body language, at least on court, together, don't look great....
Last season I blamed Pop for it. He didn't play a two-man game between these two guys, didn't design plays involving the two but this season they look even worse than last year...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Thanks for the grades, girl! Nice work! :tu

For some criticism on the grades that I read, we should understand that the grades are views of the game/players' performance influenced by subjective and personal interpretations.

That's why I never criticize them, I just thanks for the time and the work because I enjoy reading other people's view, even if I don't agree with them.




I think that some people are expecting an evolution of Kawhi's game in a way that's not natural for him. He's a scorer, an-Iso/Mid-j scorer.

He's not a point-forward and we can't excpect he turns into full LeBron, we should look at his game more at a more efficient Kobe's type.

In this league, especially against Western Conference backcourts, it's pretty obvious that Kawhi needs a consistent playmaker around him. He can't do it all and needs help.
Sadly, the Spurs don't have that guy. Our two best playmakers are a 39 years old and a starting point guard who's past his prime.

And the Spurs' off-season's decisions didn't fill this big whole.


So you didn't watch the Spurs in their almost a seven years of Tim's 4-down. They didn't have that many options until Parker/Manu improvements in 2005.


On these times of superteams, except LMA, I wonder where are the prime Parker/Manu of Kawhi...Tim had two elite guards, top 5 in the league at their positions.


Really? Kawhi averages 3.1 apg and 1.8 tpg.

He increased his USG% and apg this season (2.6 last season) but his TO per game looks almost identical to last season (1.5)

That makes him so unique in the league, there aren't many players increasing FGA,USG% and PPG, and still keeping TO that low.


What's about his late-game decisions? Just to give the ball to Kawhi?. Most of times it have worked cause Kawhi is great at it, but where are the 'elaborated' plays to help him?

-4 and Kawhi got a bucket, -2 and Kawhi missed the last shot.

But even when that last Kawhi's play was really good because he didn't set for a jumper, instead of that he was strong driving, attacking the hoop, every play Pop called in order to close the game was an Iso-play.

Where are the screens to help Kawhi, where is a play that move the ball to find Kawhi in a better position to get the bucket? It's just Kawhi trying to figure out how to win the game by himself.

And then most people criticize Kawhi's Kobe-form. For real, guys?? That's the way that Pop plays him now.

Also, in the last 6 seasons, I can't remember a game where Pop called a successful play to win a close game.

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You got me. I didn't really begin following the Spurs until I moved to San Antonio in 2003. The arrival of Tony and Manu is what really sparked my keener interest in the team. I witnessed their "system" move from the blunt instrument of the 4-down era all the way to the (brief but) "beautiful game" and now to the achingly pedestrian Iso-ball of Kawhi and LMA. I am "hooked " at this point, but I do lament the decisions PATFO has made in the last couple of off-seasons and the direction in which they have propelled the team.

Accurate grade for our #1 PG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

One criticism I have with Pop is that if his shooters are not getting shots, he will need to call up a play for them like he's done for Danny and Mills at times, when due to the way the game was developing, a long time relatively speaking had passed without them getting a 3 pt shot out. Pop understands that he needs the 3 pt shot to win games and sometimes selectively spoon feeds it to someone.

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But if they're getting good looks and passing up on them? Idk... Sure he could run a play for them, but there's no guarantee they shoot it. I've seen it this season already, a play was run for Anderson and he pump faked causing Pop to run his hands through his hair and shake his head. With Bertans, he is a shooter. He's shown he is a shooter and isn't scared to let it fly, sometimes even off the dribble. So what happened against Houston was surprising for me. The only thing I could see was we were down early at home, and maybe it was more pressure for him. Not all guys are comfortable being themselves in pressure situation and revert to being passive and tentative.

Quote:

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For both guys, they need to be aggressive with their shots, but if that is not happening, then a play needs to be called to get them a shot. I suspect Pop is watching players play this early (he famously said he wasn't coaching LMA for the first half of last season for example and was just observing him, and he has indicated one of the things he watches is how guys play with each other and fit next to each other). Lack of chemistry and trust in teammates made it so that there is not enough involvement of new guys, or screening for each other.

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I guess if they were not getting free at all and getting good looks I would agree with you. But when they are getting space and they are getting the ball from their teammates, and they still choose to be passive? Idk.. I feel like people are quickly to point the finger at Pop, but you can't force self confidence. These guys aren't just standing in the corner waiting for the ball and not getting it either. They just weren't taking advantage of the opportunities they did have. Pop is actually being patient, cause he's pulled his vets for being this passive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

But if they're getting good looks and passing up on them? Idk... Sure he could run a play for them, but there's no guarantee they shoot it. I've seen it this season already, a play was run for Anderson and he pump faked causing Pop to run his hands through his hair and shake his head. With Bertans, he is a shooter. He's shown he is a shooter and isn't scared to let it fly, sometimes even off the dribble. So what happened against Houston was surprising for me. The only thing I could see was we were down early at home, and maybe it was more pressure for him. Not all guys are comfortable being themselves in pressure situation and revert to being passive and tentative.

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I remember that play and he was run off the line bc the defender identified the play. It wasn't a wide open shot as you make it seem. There wasn't a good screen set on his guy. Off his pump fake he took a shot that was ok for him as he's a good midrange shooter, he just missed it.

Bertans just didn't get shots in that Houston game and neither did Kyle until the 4th Q when he did take shots he needed to take. One has to realize that between Kawhi and LMA they consuming 60% of the possessions on the court (higher in that particular game) and neither guy is a good passer. Kawhi is decent but he's most certainly a scorer that looks for his shots first. The second unit moves the ball better but they have focused in their main scoring options and Bertans didn't get shots. Pop probably is fine with that so long as he's playing adequate defense, then taking whatever comes his way. Nothing came his way. He may just not be setting good enough screens to free himself, something is up with his screening, but he wasn't open.

As I said if Pop wanted to get guys going, he could call plays for them (he did for Kyle in a single circumstance as you point out, several games ago), so if he hasn't done that again or done it for Bertans that isn't a focus for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Hey YGWHI!

I think these early season experiments with Kiwi are a necessity. He needs to take over late in games. I am sure all of these growing pains are aimed at the postseason. It's things Pop will look at with him and then decide upon adjustments. I suspect heavily that what we see is indeed Pop's wish in the sense that he wants Kawhi to use all of those possessions to refine and improve decision making, etc. Even if he's not a point forward (and I agree he's not) he's going to have the ball late in the game to take his shots, but also decide on his own when it's better to pass out of a bad shot situation. It's a process I guess.

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Agree, it's a process but it doesn't have to be this hard.

Most teams try to give their main scorers easy buckets, we can see CP3 and the lobs, Warriors and their screens for shooters/offensive scheme...

I wonder what's Spurs designed play/scheme to give Kawhi/LMA easy buckets?

It won't kill the Spurs if they give him/LMA open looks once in a while...

Quote:

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I would expect Pop to address that with time, specially deciding how they are going to use Pau. He's kind of going underutilized and they paid too much to not take advantage of him as best they can.

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I find it so funny when Jeff McDonald from SAEN tried to explain that small ball teams are just bad matchups for Pau.

In a perimeter/small ball oriented league, we signed a Center who can't stay on the floor due his lack of mobility...Almost 25 teams will go small being bad matchups for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I remember that play and he was run off the line bc the defender identified the play. It wasn't a wide open shot as you make it seem. There wasn't a good screen set on his guy. Off his pump fake he took a shot that was ok for him as he's a good midrange shooter, he just missed it.

Bertans just didn't get shots in that Houston game and neither did Kyle until the 4th Q when he did take shots he needed to take. One has to realize that between Kawhi and LMA they consuming 60% of the possessions on the court (higher in that particular game) and neither guy is a good passer. Kawhi is decent but he's most certainly a scorer that looks for his shots first. The second unit moves the ball better but they have focused in their main scoring options and Bertans didn't get shots. Pop probably is fine with that so long as he's playing adequate defense, then taking whatever comes his way. Nothing came his way. He may just not be setting good enough screens to free himself, something is up with his screening, but he wasn't open.

As I said if Pop wanted to get guys going, he could call plays for them (he did for Kyle in a single circumstance as you point out, several games ago), so if he hasn't done that again or done it for Bertans that isn't a focus for him.

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But don't you think NBA level players should be able to take contested shots?

Bertans have several good looks (by his standards) and he passed it up to dribble the ball and continue the trend of overpassing that was going on out there.

Pop doesn't call plays for Lapro, but the guy sees an opportunity and he takes it. He's not getting yanked out the game either, cause I'm sure Pop appreciates the aggressive play, and also needs to see him sort of be himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Agree, it's a process but it doesn't have to be this hard.

Most teams try to give their main scorers easy buckets, we can see CP3 and the lobs, Warriors and their screens for shooters/offensive scheme...

I wonder what's Spurs designed play/scheme to give Kawhi/LMA easy buckets?

It won't kill the Spurs if they give him/LMA open looks once in a while...


I find it so funny when Jeff McDonald from SAEN tried to explain that small ball teams are just bad matchups for Pau.

In a perimeter/small ball oriented league, we signed a Center who can't stay on the floor due his lack of mobility...Almost 25 teams will go small being bad matchups for him.

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Once we step outside of the realm of observation into speculation, I think that part of the reason is so that Kawhi can learn to create for teammates or use his own judgment and take his shots. It's just a suspicion bc we haven't seen enough games to know if that is the case. He has done well in some games taking over late (the Heat game), but not so good on others... that is why I think it's a growth process but in the past playoffs, plays broke down or whatever bc at the end of games defenses really key in and deny off the ball Kawhi giving you shots for roleplayers (like Tony at this stage of his career). Sometimes you design a play that breaks down and ends up with the ball in the hands of a roleplayer, so they just want to develop Kawhi to have the ball late in games... that is usually when the stars demand the ball. I see it as a development process. If Kawhi had better guards it would be easier for him I think... so you have a point in that he needs support there...

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

But don't you think NBA level players should be able to take contested shots?

Bertans have several good looks (by his standards) and he passed it up to dribble the ball and continue the trend of overpassing that was going on out there.

Pop doesn't call plays for Lapro, but the guy sees an opportunity and he takes it. He's not getting yanked out the game either, cause I'm sure Pop appreciates the aggressive play, and also needs to see him sort of be himself.

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Your stars are the ones that take contested shots, specially contested jumpshots. They don't even encourage snipers lime Mills and Danny to take contested jumpshots, they do take a lot of quick shots in transition, coming off screens or whatever (shots that I think Bertans can take as well, but he didn't get any of that). He was covered.

I think the system is different for poing guards bc they handle the ball a lot and that gives them a lot more options. Part of their penetration is designed to create. Of course if you have your shot you can take it but usually someone is going to step in to break your penetration leaving someone open, that is the whole point. I think Bertans was trying to screen to pop to the 3 and that was basically all I saw him do. They didn't run anything else. As I said, maybe he is not screening well enough. I do agree right now he's not having enough of an offensive impact to justify him playing, but it's on Pop to address the fact that he's not getting looks IMO.