Rank our backcourt rotation compared to the rest of the league.

Parker: shows up once every 3 or 4 games. Lost about 10 steps.

Danny "D-League" Green: Highly overrated per RPM (which uses Bayesian inference, so we can basically discount it). Great defender, but his offensive ineptitude doesn't offset his defensive contributions. He'd be more at home in the early 00s "Grit and Grind" era.

Patty House: Great shooter, but massively undersized at 5'10" (he ain't 6 feet). Not a true PG. Still a nice weapon off the bench.

Manu Ginobili: 60 years old.

Jonathan Simmons: Super athletic, but still very rough.

The usual suspects will probably blame Pau and/or LMA, since aside from Parker, there's a lot of sentimental "favorites" in this group, but your frontline can't flourish without solid and consistent backcourt scoring, which the Spurs lack in spades.

Same old story. Back to the "coshitty" model to produce our backcourt scoring. Didn't work last season, and it won't work this season. I was hoping our size upfront would be enough to bully smallball teams, but if the backcourt isn't doing shit, LMA/Kawhi/Pau will just get swarmed to death.

Bottom five unfortunately, but Pop won't do anything about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Bottom five unfortunately, but Pop won't do anything about it.

---

I don't know who's out there to fix the problem. Or which pieces we can conceivably trade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I don't know who's out there to fix the problem. Or which pieces we can conceivably trade.

---

They might have to move one of Gasol or LMA. They had the money to fix it this past offseason but instead gave a combined $30mil to Gasol and Manu.

Dead last

Coming from the guy who said Porker should be our "Turd Option". :lol

15 million for a washed up backup guard :lol

worst by far tbh..

Ah. After a tough loss, here come these threads lol

Trash/10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dabom

Coming from the guy who said Porker should be our "Turd Option". :lol

---

I was right. He was the 3rd best scorer against OKC, while Patty House was averaging something like 4 points and shooting .250 from 3.

New season is new season, though. ALL our backcourt sucks. There's no 3rd option among these fucks.

...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Ah. After a tough loss, here come these threads lol

---

This issue goes back to last season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Ah. After a tough loss, here come these threads lol

---

Mid's not wrong though. You see how awful the Spurs are when Parker doesn't have it going. A much better team can still expose our lack of a good backcourt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I was right. He was the 3rd best scorer against OKC, while Patty House was averaging something like 4 points and shooting .250 from 3.

New season is new season, though. ALL our backcourt sucks. There's no 3rd option among these fucks.

---

And we lost. Proved you wrong then. :lmao

Should have let patty shoot more. :lmao

4 points combined from Danny and Parker, in 52 mins.

Complete garbage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dabom

And we lost. Proved you wrong then. :lmao

Should have let patty shoot more. :lmao

---

He had a game-winning shot opportunity in game 2 and predictably clanked it. He's real good at draining 3s in garbage time, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

Mid's not wrong though. You see how awful the Spurs are when Parker doesn't have it going. A much better team can still expose our lack of a good backcourt.

---

Right, but I haven't seen 1 of these since we went on a winning streak. Frankly, they've played well enough to win 9 straiget.

But people are so quick to make threads pointing out flaws after each loss. It's like clockwork. It's a long freaking season

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

He had a game-winning shot opportunity in game 2 and predictably clanked it. He's real good at draining 3s in garbage time, though.

---

Look. You wasted a whole year, and the Playoffs proved that Porker as the Turd Option was a lose scenario. Eat shit faggot. :lmao

Stay losing. :lmao

We should have one of these for games on the road vs games at home...

Good thread. This has been an ongping issue since last year but Popvich and The Crew decided replacing Tim was a bigger issue. They're bottom 5.

Another problem is that Pop is insisitant on running the same offense that heavily relies on a bottom 5 backourt. Which leads to some of the easiest buckets for opppsing teams specially when Ginobili is throwing the ball in the stands.

Not even going to bother with Porker who just lile today and last year was the biggest culprit for the spurs slpw start offense.

When Simmons is like your best backcpurt player in a game like this...you're going to struggle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

They might have to move one of Gasol or LMA. They had the money to fix it this past offseason but instead gave a combined $30mil to Gasol and Manu.

---

Gasol was about the best Duncan clone we could ask for. That signing was a no brainer. Manu should've probably been released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Good thread. This has been an ongping issue since last year but Popvich and The Crew decided replacing Tim was a bigger issue. They're bottom 5.

Another problem is that Pop is insisitant on running the same offense that heavily relies on a bottom 5 backourt. Which leads to some of the easiest buckets for opppsing teams specially when Ginobili is throwing the ball in the stands.

Not even going to bother with Porker who just lile today and last year was the biggest culprit for the spurs slpw start offense.

When Simmons is like your best backcpurt player in a game like this...you're going to struggle.

---

It always starts with that fucker. :lol

They could have actually posted up Aldirdge and Kawhi when tlthe offense was clearly struggling but instead we're running shitty pick and offense with our best player stationed in corner and Aldirdge just out ere waiting for offensive boards.

These are the kind of games when you know from the first quarter the offense isnt clicking...you go to your best guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Good thread. This has been an ongping issue since last year but Popvich and The Crew decided replacing Tim was a bigger issue. They're bottom 5.

Another problem is that Pop is insisitant on running the same offense that heavily relies on a bottom 5 backourt. Which leads to some of the easiest buckets for opppsing teams specially when Ginobili is throwing the ball in the stands.

Not even going to bother with Porker who just lile today and last year was the biggest culprit for the spurs slpw start offense.

When Simmons is like your best backcpurt player in a game like this...you're going to struggle.

---

We needed a Duncan replacement, unfortunately. Manu should've been let go. Parker should've been on the block along with picks. Maybe we get a team to bite.

RPM is not RAPM. And there are two RAPMs, one uses Bayesian and one doesn't. Green is elite in all of them over multiple years. He's been a great starting two-guard for too many years for this "he's a d-leaguer" take to keep coming up.

But anyway, yes, the Spurs back court is shaky. Everyone happened to look bad at once tonight. That doesn't usually happen. But if they're playing with fire having Tony as their starting PG, they're swimming in lava having him and Manu as the top-two perimeter play-makers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

RPM is not RAPM. And there are two RAPMs, one uses Bayesian and one doesn't. Green is elite in all of them over multiple years. He's been a great starting two-guard for too many years for this "he's a d-leaguer" take to keep coming up.

But anyway, yes, the Spurs back court is shaky. Everyone happened to look bad at once tonight. That doesn't usually happen. But if they're playing with fire having Tony as their starting PG, they're swimming in lava having him and Manu as the top-two perimeter play-makers.

---

Yeah they will swim in lava for one game out of 5 against the clippers or the warriors..this guy just doesnt get it. Delusional.

While TP is up and down and he's shown much more than Manu and that's with Manu barley playing and getting rest days. Manu has fallen off the cliff to start the year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

which uses Bayesian inference, so we can basically discount it

---

Yeeaaah...about that...turns out bayesian inference is one of the most useful techniques ever invented for inferential statistics and is a driving force behind the "big data" movement in behavioral science generally (along with PCA/ICA)...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

We needed a Duncan replacement, unfortunately. Manu should've been let go. Parker should've been on the block along with picks. Maybe we get a team to bite.

---

Well we all knew the team was going to be better replacing Manu and Porker but that was never going to happen. Manu thankfully will retire next year and he can get go get his 14 million and just be done with it.

Porker on the other hand...Pop is insistant on making him run the pffense till he's 40.

If patty is asking for 10 million dollars a year next year...I say dobt even bother resigning that nigga..although i heard the spurs have his bird rights.

Anderson sucking so bad this year when the team clearly expected him to be a part of the bench has also really ruined this team's potential.

Fringe contender at best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

While TP is up and down and he's shown much more than Manu and that's with Manu barley playing and getting rest days. Manu has fallen off the cliff to start the year.

---

Meh, they both look close to done to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chinook

RPM is not RAPM. And there are two RAPMs, one uses Bayesian and one doesn't. Green is elite in all of them over multiple years. He's been a great starting two-guard for too many years for this "he's a d-leaguer" take to keep coming up.

But anyway, yes, the Spurs back court is shaky. Everyone happened to look bad at once tonight. That doesn't usually happen. But if they're playing with fire having Tony as their starting PG, they're swimming in lava having him and Manu as the top-two perimeter play-makers.

---

Danny fanboy on cue :lol

I don't get the fascination. He's a marginally better Bruce Bowen in an era where Bruce Bowen type players are becoming obsolete. 3 and D players are too one dimensional offensively for their defense to overcome their offensive deficiencies and predictability.

:pop: - It doesn't matter, I'll start Fathead in Playoffs 4th quarters anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Yeah they will swim in lava for one game out of 5 against the clippers or the warriors..this guy just doesnt get it. Delusional.

---

Who are you talking about?

They have played their cards now..Need to go look in the scrap heap for third string PGs: Udrih, Chalmers whatever flotsam playmakers available..

Green is a great player by any on/off metric, tbh, not just rpm or rapm..he's been a key starter on 2 Finals teams and has excelled in this era of basketball..

The Cavs(JR Smith), Raptors(Carroll), Warriors(Barnes) and Thunder(Roberson) all started players with the same limitations, last year, yet they were all more successful than the Spurs..

Unfortunately, you can't win in today's NBA without a lead playmaking guard..it's the reason I haven't bought the Spurs as a contender the past 2 years, despite their record..in a league where the other contenders and fringe challengers have Irving, Curry, Thomas, Paul, Lowry, etc, the Spurs are still relying on 1000-year old Parker..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Danny fanboy on cue :lol

I don't get the fascination. He's a marginally better Bruce Bowen in an era where Bruce Bowen type players are becoming obsolete. 3 and D players are too one dimensional offensively for their defense to overcome their offensive deficiencies and predictability.

---

I'll let you duke it out with chinook. Some lightweight puccy. :corn:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Danny fanboy on cue :lol

I don't get the fascination. He's a marginally better Bruce Bowen in an era where Bruce Bowen type players are becoming obsolete. 3 and D players are too one dimensional offensively for their defense to overcome their offensive deficiencies and predictability.

---

He's still a very good player. But he shouldn't have to be the team's best guard by default. If the Spurs just had an all star PG, Danny's shortcomings would be overcome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Green is a great player by any on/off metric, tbh, not just rpm or rapm..he's been a key starter on 2 Finals teams and has excelled in this era of basketball..

The Cavs(JR Smith), Raptors(Carroll), Warriors(Barnes) and Thunder(Roberson) all started players with the same limitations, last year, yet they were all more successful than the Spurs..

Unfortunately, you can't win in today's NBA without a lead playmaking guard..it's the reason I haven't bought the Spurs as a contender the past 2 years, despite their record..in a league where the other contenders and fringe challengers have Irving, Curry, Thomas, Paul, Lowry, etc, the Spurs are still relying on 1000-year old Parker..

---

Too bad he is icy hot. Like the definition of super role player. :lol

Now if he was consistent, Spurs would actually be a great team.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Danny fanboy on cue :lol

---

You're the one whipping out antiquated takes. There's a reason why you had to wait a month before coming with this thread. It's the typical "wait until the first second where you can claim victory then wallow in self-praise" thread.

This team has also been generally unlikable, too, since adding Aldridge..he's a career loser with a cancerous style of play..

It was exacerbated this off-season by adding a known diva and pussy like Pau, sadly..very unlikable team, which is sad, considering how much fun the Spurs were in 2012-2014..

Simmons is really working on using his penetration to get open shots for other guys. Sometimes too much, but I can at least see that he's doing something to expand his game. If the rest of those guys were playing well, I'd be all for what Simmons is doing. The fact that we are seriously worried about relying on him says a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Gasol was about the best Duncan clone we could ask for. That signing was a no brainer. Manu should've probably been released.

---

Gasol is redundant with LMA on the roster. Spurs really should've tried for a cheaper defensive big and went after a playmaking guard like Fornier or Clarkson.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dabom

Too bad he is icy hot. Like the definition of super role player. :lol

Now if he was consistent, Spurs would actually be a great team.

---

There's limited consistency with role players..that's part of the reason they have limited roles on a team..it's the same case with every team..

Teams generally go as far as their stars take them in the NBA..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

There's limited consistency with role players..that's part of the reason they have limited roles..

Teams generally go as far as their stars take them in the NBA..

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robz4000

Gasol is redundant with LMA on the roster. Spurs really should've tried for a cheaper defensive big and went after a playmaking guard like Fornier or Clarkson.

---

It's been hammered to death, but the Spurs realistically had about $23-24 Million in cap space this summer. It's sad that with that cap situation, only Lee, Dedmon and Bertans were good acquisitions (especially since none of them had to count against the cap at all).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

There's limited consistency with role players..that's part of the reason they have limited roles on a team..it's the same case with every team..

Teams generally go as far as their stars take them in the NBA..

---

That's the knock on him. Even though he rates positive. He still actually hurts the team and a lot of cases.

Parker locked up for another year and Ginobili making 14 million this year. It's not Paus and Manus you should be combining its Parkers and Manus. Now that's about 30 mill this year. Green is making ten, he's fine. Simmons is making less than a mill, he's fine. Patty is making around three, he's fine. The decline of the big 3 was always gonna be less than glorious but they earned their keep. It just sucks is all. 30 mill could buy another superstar tbh.

I feel bad for Parker

He carried the spurs on his back for 10 years while Jim took the credit

The Autist looks lost without Parker holding his hand LMFAO

Both Manu and Tony have similarly played poorly so far, tbh... just inconsistent, some games very good, some games bad...

I think it's worthwhile pointing out their usage is down in both cases to the lowest it's been since their respective rookie seasons. It's not 'low' overall (taking Murray out due to small sample, they rank #4 and #5), but this is Kawhi's and LMA's team now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

It's been hammered to death, but the Spurs realistically had about $23-24 Million in cap space this summer. It's sad that with that cap situation, only Lee, Dedmon and Bertans were good acquisitions (especially since none of them had to count against the cap at all).

---

Just comes back to Pop not giving a shit. Spurs need to move on at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dabom

That's the knock on him. Even though he rates positive. He still actually hurts the team and a lot of cases.

---

Who are the consistent role players in the NBA, iyo?

If Green shot well every game, the Spurs still wouldn't have a playmaking guard..he's never going to be one..if he was, he would have never been a Spur..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

They might have to move one of Gasol or LMA. They had the money to fix it this past offseason but instead gave a combined $30mil to Gasol and Manu.

---

Glass half empty.

They are only having to pay Parker half that. Glass half full.

I really dont think getting Pau was inportant at all. If you remove him now, the spurs will still be able to trot out a competent big rotation. And still have 15 million to throw at Guards.

But no..
Pop is so keen on Relying on A 1000000 year old Point Guard and SG to do the Playmaking..a genuis idea since Porker was never a playmaker ever in his career....

You could see it from the way he runs the pick and roll...He only knows how to make one pass in that scenario..and its the Pop. :lmao

In comparison, guards wh can score and playmake can make a roll pass, cross pass, and find open players on cuts and off screens.

They're trying to make a 500000 year old non-playmaker into a playmaker. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

He's still a very good player. But he shouldn't have to be the team's best guard by default. If the Spurs just had an all star PG, Danny's shortcomings would be overcome.

---

I love LDN but let's face it, he's great for us because of the system. He is legitimately sound on defense (though his perimeter D can be shaky at times) and he gets to his spots on offense. But it wouldn't hurt to explore moving beyond a system guard. I mean look at how Simmons' athleticism and dynamic play came in handy against the Dubs. Of course, Danny is miles better than Simmons but my point is, we need more explosiveness from our backcourt in today's game. Danny is great in the role he plays but couldn't another player out there take that spot and take it another level? It's worth exploring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcadian

Yeeaaah...about that...turns out bayesian inference is one of the most useful techniques ever invented for inferential statistics and is a driving force behind the "big data" movement in behavioral science generally (along with PCA/ICA)...

---

Using Bayesian methods in this context is flawed because there's nothing to "speculate" about since basketball statistics are discreet events that are completely transparent (i.e. it's a fact when Danny Green scores 10 points on 50%).

Bayesian methods are used to analyze probabilities from a sample data set, i.e. polling 1000 people about their ice cream preference and then attempting, through inference, to predict the ice cream preferences of a much larger population size. It's why Bayesian inference is used a lot in marketing.

I have no idea why you would apply it to a basketball (or any sport) statistic. There's nothing to "infer." Sports stats are "hard" facts.

People dogging Danny are the worst kind of ST's. Don't bring that ish my way tbh..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Who are the consistent role players in the NBA, iyo?

If Green shot well every game, the Spurs still wouldn't have a playmaking guard..he's never going to be one..if he was, he would have never been a Spur..

---

I'm saying if his highs and lows were smaller. Not if he was a "consistent 50%" shooter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Who are the consistent role players in the NBA, iyo?

If Green shot well every game, the Spurs still wouldn't have a playmaking guard..he's never going to be one..if he was, he would have never been a Spur..

---

Green's almost never a negative. He's either a slight positive or a huge positive. For the third-highest paid guard in the rotation and the sixth-highest paid player overall, he's fine. The issue is that there are two or three players ahead of him that aren't earning their keep. Having your third-best player make so little should be a boon, but the Spurs took that potential windfall and threw it down the drain on loyalty contracts.

Hello.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Gasol is redundant with LMA on the roster. Spurs really should've tried for a cheaper defensive big and went after a playmaking guard like Fornier or Clarkson.

---

Who was out there, though?

Mozgoof got more money than Gasol. For a decent big today, you have to pay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPG21920

People dogging Danny are the worst kind of ST's. Don't bring that ish my way tbh..

---

This. LDN has proven his worth time and time again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

I really dont think getting Pau was inportant at all. If you remove him now, the spurs will still be able to trot out a competent big rotation. And still have 15 million to throw at Guards.

But no..
Pop is so keen on Relying on A 1000000 year old Point Guard and SG to do the Playmaking..a genuis idea since Porker was never a playmaker ever in his career....

You could see it from the way he runs the pick and roll...He only knows how to make one pass in that scenario..and its the Pop. :lmao

In comparison, guards wh can score and playmake can make a roll pass, cross pass, and find open players on cuts and off screens.

They're trying to make a 500000 year old non-playmaker into a playmaker. :lol

---

I really want a play Murray alternate as sad as that may sound. I wish he was ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Who are the consistent role players in the NBA, iyo?

If Green shot well every game, the Spurs still wouldn't have a playmaking guard..he's never going to be one..if he was, he would have never been a Spur..

---

I'm talking about smaller difference better highs and lows. Not that we need a superstar role player.

Btw, I actually agree that the Spurs should look to move Green, especially if he continues shooting well..he has one of the friendliest contracts in the NBA, they could probably get a piece for him in a package..

The reason they should do it is because they clearly don't have any interest on fixing the PG position in the next 2 years, there's virtually no chance that Parker will be benched..if that's the case, they might as well look for a different type of SG and attempt to transition TP into a role player, if possible(spot-up shooter/defender, which is unlikely, but maybe he can carve out a new niche)..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPG21920

People dogging Danny are the worst kind of ST's. Don't bring that ish my way tbh..

---

Who's dogging him? I'm not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcadian

Yeeaaah...about that...turns out bayesian inference is one of the most useful techniques ever invented for inferential statistics and is a driving force behind the "big data" movement in behavioral science generally (along with PCA/ICA)...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Using Bayesian methods in this context is flawed because there's nothing to "speculate" about since basketball statistics are discreet events that are completely transparent (i.e. it's a fact when Danny Green scores 10 points on 50%).

Bayesian methods are used to analyze probabilities from a sample data set, i.e. polling 1000 people about their ice cream preference and then attempting, through inference, to predict the ice cream preferences of a much larger population size. It's why Bayesian inference is used a lot in marketing.

I have no idea why you would apply it to a basketball (or any sport) statistic. There's nothing to "infer." Sports stats are "hard" facts.

---

I don't believe it. I mean... I'm reading it. But I don't fucking believe it's really happening. This is why we can't have nice things.

And honestly, it's the reason there are only two female posters here. I know SAGirl says it's the sexual innuendos. But nooo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpurPadre

I love LDN but let's face it, he's great for us because of the system. He is legitimately sound on defense (though his perimeter D can be shaky at times) and he gets to his spots on offense. But it wouldn't hurt to explore moving beyond a system guard. I mean look at how Simmons' athleticism and dynamic play came in handy against the Dubs. Of course, Danny is miles better than Simmons but my point is, we need more explosiveness from our backcourt in today's game. Danny is great in the role he plays but couldn't another player out there take that spot and take it another level? It's worth exploring.

---

Danny isn't the problem though. You aren't going to find players like him easily, especially for the price he's playing. The team messed up giving Parker an extension and expecting Manu to carry the bench at 39 years old. Danny also does stuff that doesn't show up on the box score (his transition defense, rim protection). It's on the other guys to play up to their contracts. Frankly, I would Aldridge for a guard before Danny Green.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Who was out there, though?

Mozgoof got more money than Gasol. For a decent big today, you have to pay.

---

Didn't have to be a name; just a mobile big that had the tools ala Dedmon. Hell, they could've just roll with Bertans as the back-up 4 or started him alongside LMA. Then they have $15mil+ to get a guard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timtonymanu

Danny isn't the problem though. You aren't going to find players like him easily, especially for the price he's playing. The team messed up giving Parker an extension and expecting Manu to carry the bench at 39 years old. Danny also does stuff that doesn't show up on the box score (his transition defense, rim protection). It's on the other guys to play up to their contracts. Frankly, I would Aldridge for a guard before Danny Green.

---

Danny isn't a problem but as the adage goes, if you want an omelette, you have to break some eggs. You don't get anything for free these days outside of a Lebron team or Dubs team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Btw, I actually agree that the Spurs should look to move Green, especially if he continues shooting well..he has one of the friendliest contracts in the NBA, they could probably get a piece for him in a package..

The reason they should do it is because they clearly don't have any interest on fixing the PG position in the next 2 years, there's virtually no chance that Parker will be benched..if that's the case, they might as well look for a different type of SG and attempt to transition TP into a role player, if possible(spot-up shooter/defender, which is unlikely, but maybe he can carve out a new niche)..

---

So we have to trade the second best spur because we have to be loyal to Parker despite Porker being one of the worst guards in the league?

That really hurts :cry

My spurs getting dragged down :cry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Btw, I actually agree that the Spurs should look to move Green, especially if he continues shooting well..he has one of the friendliest contracts in the NBA, they could probably get a piece for him in a package..

The reason they should do it is because they clearly don't have any interest on fixing the PG position in the next 2 years, there's virtually no chance that Parker will be benched..if that's the case, they might as well look for a different type of SG and attempt to transition TP into a role player, if possible(spot-up shooter/defender, which is unlikely, but maybe he can carve out a new niche)..

---

Trading Green is an awful idea. He fits great next to Kawhi, isn't a diva, and he gave the team a steep discount to stay; it'd look bad to the rest of the league.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Btw, I actually agree that the Spurs should look to move Green, especially if he continues shooting well..he has one of the friendliest contracts in the NBA, they could probably get a piece for him in a package..

The reason they should do it is because they clearly don't have any interest on fixing the PG position in the next 2 years, there's virtually no chance that Parker will be benched..if that's the case, they might as well look for a different type of SG and attempt to transition TP into a role player, if possible(spot-up shooter/defender, which is unlikely, but maybe he can carve out a new niche)..

---

By "piece" you're talking about for the future, right? Because they aren't likely to get anyone currently better than Parker that will match his salary. So the idea of doing a honest re-build is starting to get some traction?

I've been a Danny fan from the first preseason he was here. But I agree with you that this is probably the right time to move him, if they get the right price. But doing that is throwing in the towel on this group. They might as well go ahead and try to find a deal for LMA or Pau. No, they SHOULD deal one of them for value, if they trade Green. I know you'd like to see it be LMA. I didn't pull any punches about wishing they would have done it in the offseason this year. I don't know if Danny's shooting revival in the playoffs would have been enough to get full value out of him then, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robz4000

Trading Green is an awful idea. He fits great next to Kawhi, isn't a diva, and he gave the team a steep discount to stay; it'd look bad to the rest of the league.

---

You have to make a move to fix this team, though..they aren't winning a title without backcourt playmakers..

They don't have any assets outside of Green, since it's highly unlikely they would trade Aldridge..nobody is taking Parker, nor would the Spurs ever trade him..Kyle Anderson isn't getting you a real piece in return..

Spurs need to look for a team that is willing to give up on a guard because of a logjam or something else. I know they got rid of Gordon to help alleviate their logjam but I wonder if Tyreke Evans might be available?

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Trading Green is an awful idea. He fits great next to Kawhi, isn't a diva, and he gave the team a steep discount to stay; it'd look bad to the rest of the league.

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It's only awful if you don't think about the potential return Green would net, especially in a package.

I would rather trade the diva that comes into camp out of shape two seasons in a row and has never made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs than a proven playoff performer who always plays hard. Hopefully Spurs see it that way too.

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Originally Posted by raybies

Parker locked up for another year and Ginobili making 14 million this year. It's not Paus and Manus you should be combining its Parkers and Manus. Now that's about 30 mill this year.

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Why not look at all three?
Porker Pau and Manu extorting 44 million a year.
Who could have been acquired for that?

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

You have to make a move to fix this team, though..they aren't winning a title without backcourt playmakers..

They don't have any assets outside of Green, since it's highly unlikely they would trade Aldridge..nobody is taking Parker, nor would the Spurs ever trade him..Kyle Anderson isn't getting you a real piece in return..

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They aren't winning without Green either, so they might as well keep one of their core players that will still be playing at a high level in a few years when the team finally gets rid of the dead weight in Porker/Manu/Pop.

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Trading Green is an awful idea. He fits great next to Kawhi, isn't a diva, and he gave the team a steep discount to stay; it'd look bad to the rest of the league.

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Of course it's an awful idea. He's one of the most "Spur" Spurs. I think he'd be just fine Haslaming it for the rest of his career if the Spurs' window closes. The Spurs need to make whatever trade they can that gets them someone to close with a Green/Leonard/LMA core. Then they can fill that final big spot with Lee, Dedmon or Bertans.

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

I would rather trade the diva that comes into camp out of shape two seasons in a row and has never made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs than a proven playoff performer who always plays hard. Hopefully Spurs see it that way too.

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Tbh

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

Danny isn't the problem though. You aren't going to find players like him easily, especially for the price he's playing. The team messed up giving Parker an extension and expecting Manu to carry the bench at 39 years old. Danny also does stuff that doesn't show up on the box score (his transition defense, rim protection). It's on the other guys to play up to their contracts. Frankly, I would Aldridge for a guard before Danny Green.

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Pop has always placed a lot of value on young players who improve year-on-year. He's talked about it in any number of interviews. Danny hasn't improved in at least the last two seasons. At this point, I think we can pretty much get used to the idea that he can't drive and score. If the Spurs see the writing on the wall for this season, Harlem is right about the value of trading Danny while his stock is high.

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Originally Posted by SpurPadre

It's only awful if you don't think about the potential return Green would net, especially in a package.

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If you talk to other fans, it's not that high. The latest RealGM Green trade was Danny, Patty and an lightly protected first for Dragic. And Miami fans thought it wasn't enough.

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Originally Posted by SpurPadre

It's only awful if you don't think about the potential return Green would net, especially in a package.

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Green won't bring back a return equal to his worth tbh; his contract is too small, not to mention he'd only interest playoff teams/potential playoff teams that wouldn't be willing to send back one of their role players with value.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Simmons is really working on using his penetration to get open shots for other guys. Sometimes too much, but I can at least see that he's doing something to expand his game. If the rest of those guys were playing well, I'd be all for what Simmons is doing. The fact that we are seriously worried about relying on him says a lot.

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Simmons running the offense::lmao...he makes Lance Stephenson seems like Magic Johnson.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

If you talk to other fans, it's not that high. The latest RealGM Green trade was Danny, Patty and an lightly protected first for Dragic. And Miami fans thought it wasn't enough.

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I don't think they need Danny/Patty when they have Richardson/Johnson.

Maybe Deron Williams could get bought out & Spurs/Rockets could have first dibs to pick him up (if he clears waivers) since he most likely wants to stay close to his hometown (Dallas) ala LMA.

There's no quick fix here, tbh... if you're gonna put it on one guy, it gotta be Pop... this team goes from largely amazing on the road to lethargic at home. It's not about calling people soft, it's about doing something about it.

You can have bad shooting nights. Tonight was one of those nights. But there's no excuse to coast at home, and most of the loses had a big dose of that.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

There's no quick fix here, tbh... if you're gonna put it on one guy, it gotta be Pop... this team goes from largely amazing on the road to lethargic at home. It's not about calling people soft, it's about doing something about it.

You can have bad shooting nights. Tonight was one of those nights. But there's no excuse to coast at home, and most of the loses had a big dose of that.

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Agreed

Danny frustrates me because he's had 5 seasons now to add some semblance of a dribble-drive or inbetween game to his arsenal, but he's still over-reliant on being the same system spot up shooter as he was in 2013.

Even J.J. Redick developed a midrange in between game. Last season, he took 34% of his shots from between 16 feet and 3 point range, and shot .473 from there. J.J. took 52% of his shots from 2 point range in total.

D-League took 38% of his shots from 2 point range in total and he shot below 40% from every 2 point distance except from 0-3 feet :lol. Shit, Redick even shoots a higher percentage from 0-3 feet than D-League.

Someone will say because Redick plays alongside Chris Paul, but that's yet another excuse. It's never on Danny. It's always some excuse. "LMA is affecting his shot." "He's just limited. A role player. What do you expect?" "Parker this, Parker that."

Every time he catches the ball at the arc, he gets closed out on, and has an ocean of mid-range space to hit a pull up jumper. Again, Redick does this at a great clip, but yet D-League is somehow incapable of adding it to his game. Kawhi added it to his game by his 2nd second season, and he was a terrible shooter coming out of college.

I don't buy it.

But yeah, he plays defense and hit a bunch of 3s against the Heat for 2 games.

lol at trading Green before two soft pussies bigs with zero equity in the team and a washed up 34yo PG..

Honestly, I would look to move Mills before the trade deadline with his impending FA in this market....

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Simmons running the offense::lmao...he makes Lance Stephenson seems like Magic Johnson.

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You and Dabom. Both of you make shit up, and then argue about it. Running the offense? I said he's trying to be less of a ball hog, and you read "running the offense"?

Come to think of it, you and Dabom both use those limp-dick emotes all the time. Coincidence?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

It's not about calling people soft, it's about doing something about it.

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Fucking amen. And players will eventually tune him out if he keeps trying that line of talk. The dude doesn't seem to make any changes to the offense during the game. The first ATO in-bounds play was to get Kawhi a 16-foot turn-around. I don't know if he ever called plays to get guys threes.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

If you talk to other fans, it's not that high. The latest RealGM Green trade was Danny, Patty and an lightly protected first for Dragic. And Miami fans thought it wasn't enough.

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Miami's FO hasn't been making the best decisions lately, though so maybe we can replace Patty for Anderson...nah, never mind. Money doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

If you talk to other fans, it's not that high. The latest RealGM Green trade was Danny, Patty and an lightly protected first for Dragic. And Miami fans thought it wasn't enough.

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I'm guessing you did a lot of research of "other fans" for that? Getting your opinions from the same people who were SURE that Hillary was going to win in a landslide, until about 10:00 on election night.


"So, as you can see, Danny's value is really quite limited at present."

http://web-images.chacha.com/images/...-1-600x400.jpg

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Originally Posted by spursistan

lol at trading Green before two soft pussies bigs with zero equity in the team and a washed up 34yo PG..

Honestly, I would look to move Mills before the trade deadline with his impending FA in this market....

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I don't advocate trading him. We're priced in. And if he gets hot, this team is a different animal, so it's worth rolling the dice.

I just find it funny that he's beyond criticism. He'll do his 5 straight games with 2-6 points on 40% shooting thing, and the blame will somehow fall on LMA or Parker's shoulders.

Yeah, it's kind of a problem when our starting SG isn't a consistent double-digit scorer in the modern league.

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Originally Posted by SpurPadre

Miami's FO hasn't been making the best decisions lately, though...

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I just don't think you'd anything great for him. I think had MKE known what was going to happen to Middleton, they would have given up 10 for Green during the draft. Maybe Chicago would have done something similar with 14. Or SAC with eight. None of the guys they actually picked at those spots would be good enough now, especially since the Spurs wouldn't be able to use that cap space. Plus those teams don't have the same optimism they had during the summer.

Sixers fans have suggested that Green could be the main piece in an Okafor package, but unless it's like Okafor, Covington and Korkmaz for Green, Mills and some other incentive, I don't think it has legs.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I don't know who's out there to fix the problem. Or which pieces we can conceivably trade.

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If the alternative is just sitting there hoping for the best...

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Didn't have to be a name; just a mobile big that had the tools ala Dedmon. Hell, they could've just roll with Bertans as the back-up 4 or started him alongside LMA. Then they have $15mil+ to get a guard.

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We needed an additional playmaker in the SL. Kawhi and Parker are just average playmakers, and LMA and Green are non-existent playmakers.

I don't know what to tell you. I see what you see.
One of Pau or LMA will need to be traded to get an asset.

I can't see Pop making such a drastic move. It is only the 4th loss of the season after all.

But I am not discounting your point at all Mid. It's just probably what is going on in Pop's head.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I don't advocate trading him. We're priced in. And if he gets hot, this team is a different animal, so it's worth rolling the dice.

I just find it funny that he's beyond criticism. He'll do his 5 straight games with 2-6 points on 40% shooting thing, and the blame will somehow fall on LMA or Parker's shoulders.

Yeah, it's kind of problem when our starting SG isn't a consistent double-digit scorer in the modern league.

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Beyond criticism? He gets shit on here plenty. However, he isn't the one being paid $16mil or $14mil while being a net negative player. Green can't be the best guard on a championship-calibre team, but every championship team needs a player of similar ilk.