Kawhi "Carmelo" Leonard is now the most clutch regular season player

:tu

:claw

Tiny sample size alert......but fuck it

:claw

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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Originally Posted by All Mighty Janitor

Tiny sample size alert......but fuck it

:claw

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Spurs forward Kawhi Leonard has now made 3 of his last 4 potential go-ahead shots in the final 10 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime, including Friday against the Wizards. Leonard is 4-of-8 on those shots for his career. The NBA field-goal percentage on those shots over the last 5 seasons is 25%.

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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Well, it's on pop then. I guarantee that was the play that was drawn up.

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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He took the shot b/c he got what he wanted: a clean look at his sweet spot. Had he held the ball then he would have been taking a contested 20 footer w/ a defender draped all over him.

:claw This

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

He took the shot b/c he got what he wanted: a clean look at his sweet spot. Had he held the ball then he would have been taking a contested 20 footer w/ a defender draped all over him.

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If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

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Originally Posted by GSH

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

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DPOY was confident his team could get ONE stop which is why he took the best shot possible.

There is no telling what might happen in OT since it's a 5 minute period & Wall was getting into the paint at will.:wakeup

Career clutch Stats (Finals 4 minutes + OT):

Carmelo: http://bkref.com/tiny/oq5B6

vs.

Kawhi: http://bkref.com/tiny/av4pb

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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The thread isn't titled "Kawhi "Carmelo" Leonard is the smartest regular season player."

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Career clutch Stats (Finals 4 minutes + OT):

Carmelo: http://bkref.com/tiny/oq5B6

vs.

Kawhi: http://bkref.com/tiny/av4pb

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Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

The thread isn't titled "Kawhi "Carmelo" Leonard is the smartest regular season player."

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LOL... fair enough. I got nothing to say to that.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

DPOY was confident his team could get ONE stop which is why he took the best shot possible.

There is no telling what might happen in OT since it's a 5 minute period & Wall was getting into the paint at will.:wakeup

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When you say most clutch regular season player, do you mean this week? Last 5 games? on a roster that features Softridge and Gashole as the second and third best options on the team? You didn't finish your sentence.

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

When you say most clutch regular season player, do you mean this week? Last 5 games? on a roster that features Softridge and Gashole as the second and third best options on the team? You didn't finish your sentence.

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Someone can think what Kawhi does is even greater having those two players who don't make his life easier and don't draw that much attention in the last seconds.

For this regular seasos and his career.

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Spurs forward Kawhi Leonard has now made 3 of his last 4 potential go-ahead shots in the final 10 seconds of the 4th quarter or overtime, including Friday against the Wizards. Leonard is 4-of-8 on those shots for his career. The NBA field-goal percentage on those shots over the last 5 seasons is 25%.

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Originally Posted by GSH

I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

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Really?? I'd rather see Kawhi take a clean shot instead of losing in OT. It seems that you forget that this is the same team who lost to Orlando at home.

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Originally Posted by GSH

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

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This is simple and accurate. He left too much time on the clock. Giving the other team an opportunity to win is never the best option. Great shot, but doesnt change it was a bad decision to shoot so early.

When given the choice of the other team having a shot to win or not, it should be an easy call. Not sure why people are trying to argue against you.

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Originally Posted by Mnky

Not sure why people are trying to argue against you.

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Because he said "I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot."

Lol It doesn't surprise me who made this thread.. tbh.. and he couldn't be more clueless.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. There's no such thing as a " clutch gene". Such a big myth that average fans eat up.

Players are who they are. Great players will have the ball in the hands late in the games, and in the long run (with a large sample size), the averages will be right around the season averages ( players are who they are). The percentages regress to the mean as the sample size increases. There's confidence, but there's not clutch. And every NBA player that's in the game late has confidence with the aspects they do well. Whether it be Steve Kerr shooting a 3, or Tony Parker driving in the lane. They've done it their whole career, and in the long run, they will miss some and make some, right around their averages if you're just patient enough to see the sample size grow.

Is Skip Bayless the OP?

How or why do people still believe clutch is a thing?

There's several articles that will make you feel stupid if you are like Skip Bayless and believe in clutch or a clutch gene. Please read any of these links.. these are just a few examples.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...ce-and-for-all

https://cornerthree.net/2014/03/10/does-clutch-exist/

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/528...d-random-chaos

Never seen more annoying people blaming the best player on the team for making a big shot...than these guys here.

'But but I'd rather PLAY OT instead of him making that shot'

'But but he is NOT clutch, players are what they are'

:lmao

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Never seen more annoying people blaming the best player on the team for making a big shot...than these guys here.

'But but I'd rather PLAY OT instead of him making that shot'

'But but he is NOT clutch, players are what they are'

:lmao

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There is no such thing as a clutch player. If you think there is, then you have selective memory and only remember makes late in the game.

Keep watching Skip Bayless.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

There is no such thing as a clutch player. If you think there is, then you have selective memory and only remember makes late in the game.

Keep watching Skip Bayless.

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Yeah...I wonder why for some strange reason people remember the shots make late in the game....

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Yeah...I wonder why for some strange reason people remember the shots make late in the game....

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Oh and the only reason great players make a shot late in the game isnt because he is who he is...its bc he has a Clutch gene in his DNA.

Lol youre clueless but youre a good guy.

Let me see...Because those late shots give a team the win??

Damn. What a rare reason.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Let me see...Because those late shots give a team the win??

Damn. What a rare reason.

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You just dont get it. No point in trying to explain more.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

You just dont get it.

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Coming from the guy who in an appreciation thread about a big shot says..."there is no clutch players"...Yep. You get it.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Because he said "I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot."

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What he meant was have the Spurs play for the final shot and if they miss, the game goes to OT. He's right. Why would you leave it in the hands of a tissue paper defense to win the game? Furthermore, Kawhi had enough time to drive the lane for an easy lay up or slam dunk and would have eaten at least another 2+ seconds of the clock. Instead, he settled for a half-baked long range two point shot with Oubre JR. draped all over him.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Coming from the guy who in an appreciation thread about a big shot says..."there is no clutch players"...Yep. You get it.

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Lol big shots dont happen because of clutch dna. They happen because the player is great at what he does and has practiced it over and over for decades. That same player will miss a lot too in closing minutes..usually around their career averages because they are who they are.

You just dont get it. Its okay.

And again. 'He gets it'.

Especially, in THIS kind of thread.

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Originally Posted by GSH

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

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It was clearly the play Pop drew. He took the shot just because of that. Good thing he's an elite shooter, tbh.

Only on ST can you find people dumb enough to actually bitch cause their team's best player made a clutch shot.

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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The goal of basketball is get an open look. And by the looks of how the play was designed, it was clear that they expected that kawhi would be open after that LMA screen. It's really on Pop for Kawhi to take it that early.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Really?? I'd rather see Kawhi take a clean shot instead of losing in OT. It seems that you forget that this is the same team who lost to Orlando at home.

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Best I can explain it is that it's like the difference between a 5 game series and a 7 game series. One of Pop's big complaints was that anything can happen in a 5 game series, and that too much of the time the best team doesn't win. When the other team has plenty of time to make a last shot to win, the effort of a whole game comes down to a single shot.

Add to that the fact that home court is a big advantage in OT, and I would much rather see the Spurs have an opportunity to grind down an opponent in a full OT period, than to have the chance for Beal to drain a flukey single shot in regulation. And that's IF Kawhi's long, lower-percentage shot falls. If it doesn't, all the Wiz need is a single 2-pointer to steal the W at the end. There's a reason why road teams tend to go for the 3-pointer to win a lot more often in those situations, and a home time down by 2 tends go for a 2-pointer to tie.

You can say whatever you want, but I don't think there's any NBA coach who would rather have the game come down to a single shot by the other team, playing at home. I'm glad Kawhi made the shot. But I'm pretty sure that Pop knows that the longer the shot, the lower percentage.

As for being "clutch"? The guys who tend to make more of those game-winning late shots are also the guys who tend to make more of them earlier in the game.

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Originally Posted by 100%duncan

The goal of basketball is get an open look. And by the looks of how the play was designed, it was clear that they expected that kawhi would be open after that LMA screen. It's really on Pop for Kawhi to take it that early.

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Kawhi is without a doubt the best player on the team, and he has a green light from Pop to shoot when he thinks he can make it. He's good, and we all understand that. But he would be just as good in 5 minutes of OT, which would give him lots of opportunities to make higher-percentage shots than that. It was a great shot. It was also the wrong time to take it.

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Originally Posted by SupremeGuy

Only on ST can you find people dumb enough to actually bitch cause their team's best player made a clutch shot.

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Point to a post - a single person - who has bitched because Kawhi "made a clutch shot". If you can't find one, you should probably consider shutting the fuck up. Nobody needs to read shit that you hallucinate.

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Originally Posted by GSH

Kawhi is without a doubt the best player on the team, and he has a green light from Pop to shoot when he thinks he can make it. He's good, and we all understand that. But he would be just as good in 5 minutes of OT, which would give him lots of opportunities to make higher-percentage shots than that. It was a great shot. It was also the wrong time to take it.





Point to a post - a single person - who has bitched because Kawhi "made a clutch shot". If you can't find one, you should probably consider shutting the fuck up. Nobody needs to read shit that you hallucinate.

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I dont give a shit who took the last shot or if it went in or not and the wiz would've had a gamewinner or whatever. The point is that it was the designed play, and that's on Pop. Props to them for making it work.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Lol It doesn't surprise me who made this thread.. tbh.. and he couldn't be more clueless. There's no such thing as a clutch player. There's no such thing as a " clutch gene". Such a big myth that average fans eat up. Players are who they are. Great players will have the ball in the hands late in the games, and in the long run (with a large sample size), the averages will be right around the season averages ( players are who they are). The percentages regress to the mean as the sample size increases. There's confidence, but there's not clutch. And every NBA player that's in the game late has confidence with the aspects they do well. Whether it be Steve Kerr shooting a 3, or Tony Parker driving in the lane. They've done it their whole career, and in the long run, they will miss some and make some, right around their averages if you're just patient enough to see the sample size grow. Is Skip Bayless the OP? How or why do people still believe clutch is a thing? There's several articles that will make you feel stupid if you are like Skip Bayless and believe in clutch or a clutch gene. Please read any of these links.. these are just a few examples. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...ce-and-for-all https://cornerthree.net/2014/03/10/does-clutch-exist/ http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/528...d-random-chaos

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Someone has their panties in bunches.:lmao

If there is are such thing as CHOKER then there is such a thing as CLUTCH player, can't have one without the other b/c it's all about RELATIVITY. A clutch player doesn't have to make an absurd amount of shots but rather MAINTAIN their level of play even under PRESSURE which is what Kawhi has done for the most part as he has a career eFG of 55% in the final 4 minutes+ OT: http://bkref.com/tiny/Hx2GG

Melting under pressure is a REAL thing, I don't need some analytics dude sitting on his high-horse to tell me Kirby takes TERRIBLE shots & plays hero-ball so he isn't clutch. There are guy who aren't afraid to jack-up shot during crunch time & there are those who don't deviate from their normal game play.

There are a select few who are able to focus MORE under pressure situation, such as Horry. He had a ridiculous eFG of :wow70%:wow in the 4th quarter + OT of three straight championship runs ('02/'05/'07).

Horry was absurdly clutch for the Spurs during the '05 & '07 postseason runs: http://bkref.com/tiny/ca0Vy

Did anyone else notice Tony's reaction on the bench after the shot?
He looked unimpressed. :stirpot:

Everybody has a point here, imvho. Taking that shot was good because it's his shot and he could make it, regardless of how good it is in general to take or not that shot, and at that point. However they risked getting scored on and the Spurs are struggling to defend certain players. If he missed, even worse.

Taking the shot at the end of regulation was good too as evident, but they risked struggling for a shot, missing, and going into overtime when their defense was struggling vs Wall/Beal.

I guess it's not that simple to determine what was the better course. I guess ideally it was running down the clock with a play good enough to give Kawhi some space.

I think clutch is a real thing if we view it as a combination of high level play and ability to perform under pressure, in general.

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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Crofl. Get that weak shit outta here.

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Originally Posted by SupremeGuy

Only on ST can you find people dumb enough to actually bitch cause their team's best player made a clutch shot.

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Fucking morons tbh. This place is really going down the shitter.

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

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Except Kawhi didn't get outplayed by Luke Walton for the duration of a playoff series: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...vs-lakers.html

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

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Melo has a championship and Finals MVP as the first option? Since when?

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Melo has a championship and Finals MVP as the first option? Since when?

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You're right. He's no Duncan or Parker

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Someone has their panties in bunches.:lmao

If there is are such thing as CHOKER then there is such a thing as CLUTCH player, can't have one without the other b/c it's all about RELATIVITY. A clutch player doesn't have to make an absurd amount of shots but rather MAINTAIN their level of play even under PRESSURE which is what Kawhi has done for the most part as he has a career eFG of 55% in the final 4 minutes+ OT: http://bkref.com/tiny/Hx2GG

Melting under pressure is a REAL thing, I don't need some analytics dude sitting on his high-horse to tell me Kirby takes TERRIBLE shots & plays hero-ball so he isn't clutch. There are guy who aren't afraid to jack-up shot during crunch time & there are those who don't deviate from their normal game play.

There are a select few who are able to focus MORE under pressure situation, such as Horry. He had a ridiculous eFG of :wow70%:wow in the 4th quarter + OT of three straight championship runs ('02/'05/'07).

Horry was absurdly clutch for the Spurs during the '05 & '07 postseason runs: http://bkref.com/tiny/ca0Vy

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You sound like Skip Bayless. Great players maintain their level of play late in games in the long run because they are great players. It's not because they are clutch or because they have a clutch gene. They are who they are. A clutch gene doesn't exist, confidence exists, but usually if you're a player in at the end of a big game, every player has confidence in the aspects they contribute through their roles.

You can be like the idiot fan, who called Danny Green a choker after the 2012 playoff run, when in reality he just hit a dry spell shooters go through in basketball. He's one of the best spot up shooters, Spurs have ever had and that's why in 2013 and 2014 playoff runs, his shooting percentages increased to the mean after a tough 2012 skid. Then all of a sudden a lot of idiots like yourself were saying how clutch he now was. Soon after, in the 2015 run, Danny then went 12 for 40 from 3 vs. the Clippers and regressed to his mean after two years of shooting lights out. If there was such a thing of clutch then a player that has a "clutch gene" would perform way over their mean and come through time and time again. That is not the case. They'lll miss and make around their career averages.

I like how you left out 5 years of Horry shitting the bed. For the Lakers in 01', 03', for the Spurs in 04', 06', 08' Horry shot below 30% EFG in those same minutes. If he was clutch or if clutch was a real thing, he would come through every year way above his career averages during regular season. That is not the case though because clutch isn't a real thing. It's the biggest myth in sports that idiots like you eat up year after year.

Kiwistans boasting about regular season shot over garbage team :lmao

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress...7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress...7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang

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http://life.partyjollof.com/wp-conte...inted-gif1.gif

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

You're right. He's no Duncan or Parker

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I said as the first option. Not as the 12th option being "guarded" by Boobie Gibson.

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Their postseason accomplishments as the no. 1 option are right on par with each other also.

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To be fair, Carmelo got his team to the conference finals as the first option a few years go, so he's actually done more :tu

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress...7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang

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Also the face of a man who doesn't own a bunch of cats tbh

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Originally Posted by GSH

If he takes a shot at the buzzer, even if it's a contested 20-footer, the worst that could happen is OT. Road teams, especially weak road teams, look to go for the 3P to win - and Beal/Wall hadn't missed a 3-pointer between them. I'd much rather have the game come down to an OT at home, than a single shot.

It was a bad basketball decision to take that shot. The Spurs were fortunate.

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you usually have solid takes but that i have to disagree with, he got a wide open shot, you take it. you don't give up a wide open lead taking shot in the final seconds because someone might hit a 3 pointer, than makes no sense tbh

Small sample size. :nope

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Originally Posted by GSH

That last shot was with one foot inside the 3P line. If he took that at the buzzer, because that's all they could get, it would be one thing. He either makes it, or they go to OT. But to take a low-percentage shot with that much time left on the game clock, so that even if he makes it, they still have a chance to tie or win? That's not a good basketball decision. The shot went in, and that's what clutch is all about, I guess. But it's still a really bad basketball decision.

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.

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress...7-03-40-pm.png





Stop getting buttfucked by Barnes/Roberson level scrubs as the 1st option in the playoffs before you can call yourself clutch :bang

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2:42

	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Ray Allen shooting foul (Tony Parker draws the foul)	99 - 97
2:42	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses free throw 1 of 2	99 - 97

http://i.imgur.com/I1KWeF8.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqIUPBzCh4

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

2:42

	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Ray Allen shooting foul (Tony Parker draws the foul)	99 - 97
2:42	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses free throw 1 of 2	99 - 97

http://i.imgur.com/I1KWeF8.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqIUPBzCh4

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:wow:lmao

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

You can be like the idiot fan, who called Danny Green a choker after the 2012 playoff run, when in reality he just hit a dry spell shooters go through in basketball. He's one of the best spot up shooters, Spurs have ever had and that's why in 2013 and 2014 playoff runs, his shooting percentages increased to the mean after a tough 2012 skid. Then all of a sudden a lot of idiots like yourself were saying how clutch he now was. Soon after, in the 2015 run, Danny then went 12 for 40 from 3 vs. the Clippers and regressed to his mean after two years of shooting lights out. If there was such a thing of clutch then a player that has a "clutch gene" would perform way over their mean and come through time and time again. That is not the case. They'lll miss and make around their career averages.

I like how you left out 5 years of Horry shitting the bed. For the Lakers in 01', 03', for the Spurs in 04', 06', 08' Horry shot below 30% EFG in those same minutes. If he was clutch or if clutch was a real thing, he would come through every year way above his career averages during regular season. That is not the case though because clutch isn't a real thing. It's the biggest myth in sports that idiots like you eat up year after year.

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You mean to tell me a shooter in a slump maintained his level of play from the ENTIRE game/series.:lmao

Horry had an eFG of 50% in '01 during crunch time which is better than 90% of the league.



Horry was was in a horrible slump during '03....he basically maintained his level play during crunch time, he didn't shrink. He actually stepped up & took what was the biggest shot of the series (despite it rattling out) while other player such as Softridge would have been playing hot potatoes.:rolleyes

Danny is a one dimensional spot-up shooter who can't do anything if a defender is within 3ft of him. He was in a slump the ENTIRE series against the Cripples, it had nothing to do w/ him shrinking. If anything he stepped up in Gm 7 when someone like Peja would have been running away from the ball. Against OKC, he was basically a rookie & lost his composer under pressure.

There is no such thing as a biological :lol"clutch gene":lol, some players are able to stay composed under pressure & guys like Horry can focus more when the stakes are high.

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

https://bendavidwong.files.wordpress...7-03-40-pm.png

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63.4% free throw shooter missed a free throw.:sleep

Dont call him ¨Carmelo¨ thats discouraging, tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Melo has a championship and Finals MVP as the first option? Since when?

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Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option. Kawhi Leonard was the third option in 2013-14. Duncan should have been Finals MVP that year. Btw, it's worth noting that Kawhi Leonard is having his worst defensive season of his career and it isn't even close.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/5

I can't help but think Duncan's retirement might have had a little something to do with that. Damn, getting face-fucked by Kevin Durant on defense has got to be a little bit of a humbling experience for the former DPOY (Should have been Tim too).

81st overall!! :lol Give Kawhi the DPOY award right now!!


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...ge/3/sort/DRPM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option. Kawhi Leonard was the third option in 2013-14. Duncan should have been Finals MVP that year. Btw, it's worth noting that Kawhi Leonard is having his worst defensive year of his career and it isn't even close.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/5

I can't help but think Duncan's retirement might have had a little something to do with that. Damn, getting face-fucked by Kevin Durant on defense has got to be a little bit of a humbling experience for the former DPOY (Should have been Tim too).

81st overall!! :lol Give Kawhi the DPOY award right now!!


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...ge/3/sort/DRPM

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If you think DRPM is legit & explain to me how Fat Head is the #1 ranked defender for his position::lol http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/2

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

If you think DRPM is legit & explain to me how Fat Head is the #1 ranked defender for his position::lol http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/2

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DRPM isn't without its flaws but Kyle is a pretty decent one-on-one defender and a good rebounder for his position. I don't put a ton of stock in one defensive metric because it's impossible to separate team defense from individualized defense since basketball is a team sport and playing alongside bad defenders can cause one's individual defensive numbers to drop. but, I like to look at trends. Who would have funk it that a 39 year old Tim Duncan was still the key to the Spur's defense. :lol

2013-14 ... 2.13
2014-15 ... 4.59
2015-16 ... 3.88
2016-17 ... 0.93

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

You mean to tell me a shooter in a slump maintained his level of play from the ENTIRE game/series.:lmao

Horry had an eFG of 50% in '01 during crunch time which is better than 90% of the league.



Horry was was in a horrible slump during '03....he basically maintained his level play during crunch time, he didn't shrink. He actually stepped up & took what was the biggest shot of the series (despite it rattling out) while other player such as Softridge would have been playing hot potatoes.:rolleyes

Danny is a one dimensional spot-up shooter who can't do anything if a defender is within 3ft of him. He was in a slump the ENTIRE series against the Cripples, it had nothing to do w/ him shrinking. If anything he stepped up in Gm 7 when someone like Peja would have been running away from the ball. Against OKC, he was basically a rookie & lost his composer under pressure.

There is no such thing as a biological :lol"clutch gene":lol, some players are able to stay composed under pressure & guys like Horry can focus more when the stakes are high.

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You obviously have different takes in many perspectives -- which is fine. But id be an idiot to sit here for hours all day to try to explain things over and over. What Im explaining has facts and substance behind it. Youre believing in things that cant be quantified and if you try to quantify it, you only bring up stats from certain years and ignoring the big picture and the yrs when a player shit the bed ( Horry for example).


Just agree to disagree. You can have your ficticious beliefs that players have a clutch gene, because thats what it means to say a player is clutch or not.

Youre a constant troll, who mistakes your subjective opinions as facts.

Carry on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Lol It doesn't surprise me who made this thread.. tbh.. and he couldn't be more clueless.

There's no such thing as a clutch player. There's no such thing as a " clutch gene". Such a big myth that average fans eat up.

Players are who they are. Great players will have the ball in the hands late in the games, and in the long run (with a large sample size), the averages will be right around the season averages ( players are who they are). The percentages regress to the mean as the sample size increases. There's confidence, but there's not clutch. And every NBA player that's in the game late has confidence with the aspects they do well. Whether it be Steve Kerr shooting a 3, or Tony Parker driving in the lane. They've done it their whole career, and in the long run, they will miss some and make some, right around their averages if you're just patient enough to see the sample size grow.

Is Skip Bayless the OP?

How or why do people still believe clutch is a thing?

There's several articles that will make you feel stupid if you are like Skip Bayless and believe in clutch or a clutch gene. Please read any of these links.. these are just a few examples.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...ce-and-for-all

https://cornerthree.net/2014/03/10/does-clutch-exist/

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/8/528...d-random-chaos

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option. Kawhi Leonard was the third option in 2013-14. Duncan should have been Finals MVP that year. Btw, it's worth noting that Kawhi Leonard is having his worst defensive season of his career and it isn't even close.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...RPM/position/5

I can't help but think Duncan's retirement might have had a little something to do with that. Damn, getting face-fucked by Kevin Durant on defense has got to be a little bit of a humbling experience for the former DPOY (Should have been Tim too).

81st overall!! :lol Give Kawhi the DPOY award right now!!


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/r...ge/3/sort/DRPM

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:tu I honestly :lmao reading these. The borderline arrogance, sarcasm and utter disdain and disgust at what you were both replying to was loud and clear . . . it reminded me of someone. :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

You obviously have different takes in many perspectives -- which is fine. But id be an idiot to sit here for hours all day to try to explain things over and over. What Im explaining has facts and substance behind it. Youre believing in things that cant be quantified and if you try to quantify it, you only bring up stats from certain years and ignoring the big picture and the yrs when a player shit the bed ( Horry for example).


Just agree to disagree. You can have your ficticious beliefs that players have a clutch gene, because thats what it means to say a player is clutch or not.

Youre a constant troll, who mistakes your subjective opinions as facts.

Carry on

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If you're are claiming there is no such thing as "composure" then I suggest you look into sport psychology. Asafa Powell was by far the best 100m Grand Prix runner before Bolt came onto the scene & has run under 10 second more than any sprinter in history but he NEVER won a Gold medal at ANY global championship race b/c the nerves got to him.

You jumped the shark assuming I was playing the dumb "clutch gene" theory & it blew up in your face::lol....and I'm the one being FICTITIOUS b/c I presented verifiable STATS.:lmao

If you're are claiming that "crunch time" is subjective then I suggest you track when all 5 players ACTUALLY start playing defense for an ENTIRE possession & some players start playing hot potatoes. In any case, this is the definition used by most databases:

Quote:

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4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points

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You'll get me next time cowboy, just keep your composure next time.:toast

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

DRPM isn't without its flaws but Kyle is a pretty decent one-on-one defender and a good rebounder for his position. I don't put a ton of stock in one defensive metric because it's impossible to separate team defense from individualized defense since basketball is a team sport and playing alongside bad defenders can cause one's individual defensive numbers to drop. but, I like to look at trends. Who would have funk it that a 39 year old Tim Duncan was still the key to the Spur's defense. :lol

2013-14 ... 2.13
2014-15 ... 4.59
2015-16 ... 3.88
2016-17 ... 0.93

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That's doesn't say anything about Kawhi in a vacuum.:sleep

The only variable that changed was Pau being swapped for Tim thus that basically tells you Pau sucks at playing help defense.:lol
You can't change a variable & claim your controls are causing the effect, look up the scientific theory.:wakeup

If there are guys that fold under pressure, then the opposite is true... when the going get tough, the tough get going.

It's simple.

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Originally Posted by Hoops Czar

Neither of them have a championship and Finals MVP as the first option.

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http://i.imgur.com/oO2Tm13.jpg

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

To be fair, Carmelo got his team to the conference finals as the first option a few years go, so he's actually done more :tu

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Chauncey carried him to it.

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Chauncey carried him to it.

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Yeah, Billups destroyed Choke-P3 when the Nuggets annihilated the Hornets & handed them the worst loss in postseason history.:lol



They lost to the Lakers b/c Fat Melo pulled a Softridge & disappeared when the going got tough. Dude was getting outplayed by JR Smith.:lol

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

2:42

	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Ray Allen shooting foul (Tony Parker draws the foul)	99 - 97
2:42	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses free throw 1 of 2	99 - 97

http://i.imgur.com/I1KWeF8.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqIUPBzCh4

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Embracing his roll shit. Porker is such a hypocrite. Guess who's the only one not cheering/rooting for Kawhi after his game winner vs Washington? Yup :wow

https://i.imgbox.com/gD6hAVsO.gif

Career high 16pt in the 4th quarter:wow

Wing-man Softridge:worthy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Career high 16pt in the 4th quarter:wow

Wing-man Softridge:worthy:

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Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

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Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

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Leonard carried the offense in the 4th and LMA played great also.... all hes saying lol

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Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

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He missed the shot but it was a "Kirby assist" as he drew multiple defenders which allowed LMA to get the board. In any case, Kawhi took over in the 4th quarter after Dedmon led the comeback while Patty was firing bricks trying to give away the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

He missed the shot but it was a "Kirby assist" as he drew multiple defenders which allowed LMA to get the board. In any case, Kawhi took over in the 4th quarter after Dedmon led the comeback while Patty was firing bricks trying to give away the game.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by UNT Eagles 2016

Huh? Leonard missed the GW shot and was bailed out by Aldridge's offensive rebound and putback. I don't get this bump from a KL fanboy perspective.

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When KD scored 17 points in the 4th quarter against us..."he's the best offensive player in the world" "what a player"

Kawhi scored 16 points in the 4th quarter against a team that already beat the Cavs/LeBron and almost the Warriors this season..."nah, Kawhi missed a shot"

Never seen a worst fan base...smh. Kawhi has become an absolute 4th quarter monster but "nah..."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

He missed the shot but it was a "Kirby assist" as he drew multiple defenders which allowed LMA to get the board. In any case, Kawhi took over in the 4th quarter after Dedmon led the comeback while Patty was firing bricks trying to give away the game.

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hilarious because true... one of those where Shaq/Gasol would have put back for a bucket, foul or and-1. And kobe would get the credit even though he missed the biggest shot of the game.

Exactly why this thread was just dumb.

Just like every player who plays in the last 2 minutes, his two misses were just regression to the mean of his average - per par.

Kiss of death :lol

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Exactly why this thread was just dumb.

Just like every player who plays in the last 2 minutes, his two misses were just regression to the mean of his average - per par.

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Yeah, this was a 100% Kawhi :lmao

Even then he made a clutch 3 after struggling all game long & had a potential game winner rim out after doing the toilet bowl.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Yeah, this was a 100% Kawhi.:lmao

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More like 90%-10%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Yeah, this was a 100% Kawhi.:lmao

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Yes it was

Big Players make Big Shots in Big Games

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Yes it was

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Nobody asked you about 1-5 Choke Porker.

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Originally Posted by LongtimeSpursFan

Big Players make Big Shots in Big Games

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I agree, this game wasn't big enough.:toast

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Nobody asked you about 1-5 Choke Porker.

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You mean 10/18 Parker?

Where did you get 1/5 from? Is that Kawhobe's FGM/FGA in the 4th and OT?

He had two great looks. Just didn't fall. I'm impressed that he could get himself such good looks. That said, no need to diss him or other Spurs because they lost a road game in the regular season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

I agree, this game wasn't big enough.:toast

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Yup. These ain't the mighty Wizards and Magic (sub .500 teams :lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lac_A3wlZVs&feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtX1SfUvPO0&feature=share

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

You mean 10/18 Parker?

Where did you get 1/5 from?

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The sequence at the end of the 4th where Porker turned into Enirique while ignoring LMA:

2:11

	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	LaMarcus Aldridge makes 5-foot two point shot	98 - 93
1:50	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Dennis Schroder makes driving layup	98 - 95
1:27	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses driving layup	98 - 95
1:24	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker offensive rebound	98 - 95
1:07	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	LaMarcus Aldridge steps out of bounds turnover	98 - 95
1:07	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Official timeout	98 - 95
1:07	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Manu Ginobili enters the game for Jonathon Simmons	98 - 95
0:49	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Paul Millsap makes driving layup (Dennis Schroder assists)	98 - 97
0:26	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses 21-foot	98 - 97

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

The sequence at the end of the 4th where Porker turned into Enirique while ignoring LMA:

2:11

	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	LaMarcus Aldridge makes 5-foot two point shot	98 - 93
1:50	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Dennis Schroder makes driving layup	98 - 95
1:27	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses driving layup	98 - 95
1:24	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker offensive rebound	98 - 95
1:07	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	LaMarcus Aldridge steps out of bounds turnover	98 - 95
1:07	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Official timeout	98 - 95
1:07	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Manu Ginobili enters the game for Jonathon Simmons	98 - 95
0:49	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Paul Millsap makes driving layup (Dennis Schroder assists)	98 - 97
0:26	http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=...ng&h=100&w=100	Tony Parker misses 21-foot	98 - 97

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Missed a layup (and grabbed the offensive rebound), and missed a BAILOUT mid range jumper.

You pulling numbers out of your ass bro?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Yup. These ain't the mighty Wizards and Magic (sub .500 teams :lol)

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Too bad he had to blowout the team w/ the best record in 3 quarters that he couldn't takeover in the 4th quarter.:cry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Missed a layup (and grabbed the offensive rebound), and missed a BAILOUT mid range jumper.

You pulling numbers out of your ass bro?

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He took a fuckin' bail out jumper after eating up the shot clock trying to go 1-on-1 w/ Millsap when LMA had Schroder on him.:lmao

Until this game in Atlanta, he was top #6 scorer in the 4th quarter. If stats mean something he's great in the last minutes of the game.
http://stats.nba.com/players/traditi...eason&Period=4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cd98

He had two great looks. Just didn't fall. I'm impressed that he could get himself such good looks. That said, no need to diss him or other Spurs because they lost a road game in the regular season.

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Pretty amazing if we consider his all rusty game. But still got those looks. He has to build on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Until this game in Atlanta, he was top #6 scorer in the 4th quarter. If stats mean something he's great in the last minutes of the game.
http://stats.nba.com/players/traditi...eason&Period=4

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Volume has something to do with that since hes shooting 43% and 31% from 3 in 4th quarters this yr. If he was clutch ( or if clutch was such a thing) wouldnt those numbers be better?

Still a small sample but he should improve to around his avg in the long run. Players are who they are.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

43% and 31%

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I'm getting tired of people saying on this forum that Kawhi isn't elite-efficient or he's shooting poorly. 'But but his efficiency is paying the price for...:cry '

I'm starting to agree with those guys who post that Kawhi needs a better fan base.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

I'm getting tired of people saying on this forum that Kawhi isn't elite-efficient or he's shooting poorly. 'But but his efficiency is paying the price for...:cry '

I'm starting to agree with those guys who post that Kawhi needs a better fan base.

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What does any of that have to do with my post? Are you that clueless? Do you understand what I'm posting?

Where did I ever say Kawhi sucks or Kawhi is inefficient?

All I'm saying is there's no such thing as clutch by pointing out Kawhis two misses " in the clutch" tonight. And even further by pointing out he's shooting 43% from the field and 31% from 3 in 4th quarters this year.

The best players in the game miss and make at around their averages in 4th quarters in the long run, so I'm not getting on Kawhi. I'm expecting him to miss often in crucial times because it happens -- there's no such thing as clutch players who come through all the time lol or most of the time. They come through at around their averages in the long run. The only elite player who didn't come through in crucial situations as often as his career percentages was Kobe because he forced and took bad shots more than any elite player in the past 30 years.

Here's some criticism for you that will make you a better poster. Try actually reading what people post instead of being so damn defensive and sensitive about Kawhi -- chalking up anything Kawhi related that has any hint of criticism up to " Kawhi needs a better fan base".

What I said wasn't even a critique, and you're pulling out tweets that have nothing to do with the discussion. My posts in this thread is about the OP and others dumb obsessions about clutch players when there's no such thing. If there was such thing as clutch, numbers in the long run ( over large samples) would be substantially different for non clutch and clutch players -- but that's not the case.