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A total of 28 Million dollars of virtually non-existant production value both offfensively and defensively whilst they continued to be showered in praise by mainstream and casuals as "game changers"
I love me some Manu and TP but timmy at least earned his last contracts with tremendous defensive value...
So lets play a game...Assuming you had 28 million dollars to spend right now. Who in market are you going to pursue? Maybe three players or two?
Where is Manure's bad hammy when we need it
Eh, it's not always about winning, tbh..sometimes you have to take care of the family, even if it hurts you..
20 mill to Aldridge
16 mill to gasol :lmao
Parker wants to play 5 more years after this year. Any chance Spurs take care of TP after his current contract?Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Those are awful too..but to be fair Aldridge does have value offensively and defensively and trade value too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
The only contract I have a problem with is Gasol's, tbh..such a useless move..
Obviously there's a real chance:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
His value offensively is us having a 40% chance of scoring with a turnaround fadeaway :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Gasol has actually ruined Aldridge. Two soft bigs...And he's spreading his softness to an already infected Aldridge.
I never knew that I can dislike this many spur in one seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Just pray that somhow Pau opts out and Dedmon opts in...Very unlikely, but you never know. I'm disgusted to say it but I feel better seeing Lee playing as a C than no effort Gasol.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
Imagine the money that we could've put on a playmaker for that 16 million, and then with Lee and Dedmon playing this well plus Bertans emergence. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 but that Gasol deal is going to fuck us. Mainstream fans being happy with that shit :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
teams that win don't. Players know when they're robbing a team. Just like in real life, you don't take care of family that use and fuck you over. You do what you can for them, but you just don't blindly give them what they wantQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
:lol it's not really the same, tbh..Quote:
Originally Posted by james evans
Tony and Manu aren't your junkie siblings that keeps returning to steal your shit and/or ask for money..they're more like your senior parents that have their rent and expenses taken care of by your bank account..
actually parker is closer to that junkie sibling. He hasn't produced consistently in years and we're still supporting him. Even after a bullshit finals, he was rewarded with a gracious contract. So yes, Parker IS that junkie sibling.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
You think hes that kind of 30 year old junkie that somkes pot all day and hit on teenagers?Quote:
Originally Posted by james evans
2013 Turnobili says hi as he cashes his $14,000,000 checkQuote:
Originally Posted by james evans
Pop is living off a loyalty contract himself, tbh. :lolHighest paid coach in the league:lol
Hopefully, he has a career ending injury before the playoff start.:wakeupQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
"MVPau" :lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
As for the OP, though, I obviously agree, been saying it for years..
This team has continued to rely on Parker and Ginobili to be its primary facilitators, despite both guys being unable to provide any type of consistency(which is expected, considering the mileage on their bodies)..
At a time where there is more PG talent than ever, the Spurs are still relying on a 34-year old in a 40-year old's body to run the offense, and a 39-year old to anchor their bench..you can't win a championship that way, it's impossible..
We should give a loyalty pinking to faggot OP. His takes and threads are horrible.
Rent and expenses? Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Not a farking top floor condo and two expensive car each.
Player of his generation Timmy Dunks takes 5 mil a year his final two Championship chases while these two extort 14 a year each? C'mon.
HIM TOO!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Better enjoy the respective retirement tours. We don't know how many seasons they will last either... on said tours.
Ish Smith.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
Jeremy Lin.
Matthew Dellavedova.
Rajon Rondo.
^ Best PGs that moved in the summer. Which one of these would you take over Pau?
The Spurs could have signed Lin and signed speigths dirt cheap. For some reason speights is still contributing in a limited rile with LA. Or they could signed Aldrich...Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
Either combination gets you around the same money...
But I suupose you cant assume PATFO didnt try and they did the next big thing. I just hate the player option for year two. Also Hate Dedmon player option at year two...
OP is on a loyalty contract, tbh.
Tony and Manu earned their contracts by constantly taking less money through out their careers to help the Spurs win 4 :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2: Championships when they could have easily went elsewhere for more money.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
:tu :depressedQuote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
BS narrative. Manu and Tony only took one paycut and it wasnt significant either. For the most part, they took the most money they can get specially in their big 3 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_7
Silly narrative.h
While i agree loyalty contracts are not good, over the last 3 years Manu made a grand total of 24 millions, thatīs 8 million a year, and that doesn`t bother me a lot for a loyalty contract. Parker is something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
I dare you to compare what they make with other players that had similar success and sustain the theory that "they did not take paycuts".Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Yeah. It really hurts - especially when you know that PATFO will do nothing to change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
Under Rules, CBA for their respective years etc..they took the most money they can get. You cant just assume because Leonard only makes 17 million compared to Barmes and Parsons getting 22 million he is also taking a paycut.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
Thats stupid. You can only get a certain money depending on that year CBA and TV deals.
Most of these guys will be gone in 2018 - LMA could be useful, but we need to see a larger body of work from him. I'm on the fence.
Manu's heart, hustle, and BBIQ has always been second to none. Still are, IMO. But there has to be a point where a guy is physically not up to playing a sport that is geared to quickness and athleticism. PATFO obviously wanted to pay Manu for years spent coming off the bench, when he could have been starting anywhere else, for less money than he could have gotten other places. Since the money was obviously very important, they should have paid him a shitload of cash to be on the bench in a suit. He'll still have enough good moments and nights that defenders will be able to point to. He still knows how to come up big in big moments - his body just won't do it a lot of the time.
And all of that is okay - unless you are seriously thinking about winning another LOB this year. Because at that price tag, Manu is supposed to be one of the major players on the team. But there are just way too many young players in the league who can neutralize him now - and the playoff teams are loaded with them.
:lol Todays NBA
You a lazy fuck, i dare you to do something and you just continue shitting about something without even researching.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Go and look up.
Manu made a grand total earnings of 108 millions in 15 NBA seasons. Compare that with other NBA players that had similar or less success.
As you can see on the list, most players of Manuīs caliber made at least 20-30 millions more, thats a 25% discount, you could say that Manu made the same as lesser players, such as Muchael Redd and Jason Terry and a lot less than even lesser players such as Joe Johnson and Michael Finley, and that the only player of his generation with comparable level and Salary was Richard Hamilton (who in truth had just 5 great years). And that a very comparable player to Manuīs level (Iggy) has already made more than Manu and will clearly earn at least 20 more millions.
On Tonyīs case, he made 133, but he has assured himself 148 millions. You could have a point that he didnīt take such a paycut as he made almost the same as Chris Paul and Steve Nash both better than him, the same as Gilbert Arenas, Baron Davis and Stephon Marbury (worse) and less than Jason Kidd (who is also better than Tony for his career).
In conclusion, you could say we are both right or half right, Manu did take a 20-30% paycut, which i think is a lot on NBA money (30 millions or so) and that Tony was slightly overpaid for his career.
Shooting Guard
Ray allen 180
T-Mac 162
Vince Carter 152
BrandonRoy 82 (7 seasons on track to 160)
Michael Redd 102 (11 seasons)
Jason Richardson 105 (12 seasons)
Richard Hamilton 109
Joe Johnson 182
Jason Terry 103
Michael Finley 132
Andre Iguodala 110 (12 seasons)
Pgīs
Stephon Marbury 155
Deron Williams 126
Andre Miller 98
Chauncey Billups 106
Jason Kidd 187
Baron Davis 147
Gilbert Arenas 140
Chris Paul 137
Yup. The loyalty & sacrifice has always been mutual from both sides too.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
If there's going to be a separation, that'll have to be a mutual decision as well.
I just think it's funny people say trade Parker or trade Manu like that's something that's going to happen.
Imbecile with zero understanding of how markets work. Did you get you get your education at a third world country or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
I already showed you a comparative example to give you the idea so all you have to do is figure it out youself.
Again, let me give it to you again and hopefully you're not dumb enough or Lazy enough to get it.
Kawhi Leonard is going to make 94 Million Dollars in the next four years. Mike Conley is going to get 150 Million.
Does that mean Leonard took a paycut.
Lets see if you're smart enough.to figure it out.
This tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
You are just a little little boy. The market did allow Ginobili to make more money, as he clearly did THIS year. Manu could have that atitude his whole career and make close to 130-140 millions.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Chek the facts.
Idiotic little boy, go jack off with your uncle, mother and sister.
And you explained nothing as you have zero education.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Please show me where you did explain your first world theory because itīs not here.
In truth you are just a silly litle man that is not very intelligent and just lives to make up to the fact that you were the first idiot here to call for a Kawhi trade, for.... lol... trevor ariza.
How stupid is that?
Unfortunately, while I don't mind the loyalty contracts and understand why they were given(as I said earlier), they are arguably the most damaging aspects to the Spurs' offense..
Players playing >19 MPG with a >19% usage rate and a TS% at 50% or under:
http://i66.tinypic.com/2rne80j.jpg
That's a huge portion of the offense, tbh..
So is Kawhi taking a paycut or not? Answer the question you argentine imbecile..Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
I agree, but I say the trade off is worth it. If you would been told me in 2002 that I would get to see the Spurs core win 4 more rings because they choose to stay with the Spurs for less money, but the trade off would be that they would be paid more than they are worth for the last few years of their career I would have taken it in a heart beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
However, I agree that it is the most damaging aspect to the Spurs' offense. That is the catch-22. Hopefully younger guys like Simmons, and Bertans continue to develop while Gasol continues to get more comfortable. Not a huge fan of Gasol's defense, but I love what he brings offensively.
Almost none of that matters. You can certainly argue that Manu was underpaid in his career. It's a lot harder to argue that he took pay-cuts. He signed a six-year deal after his rookie contract was up. He followed that up with a max extension, then took a market-level deal, then he took a big discount, then he took a huge overpay.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
It's not too dissimilar from Steph Curry's contracts so far. He is MASSIVELY underpaid right now, but he didn't take less. He signed a deal that made sense at the time and just massively out-performed it. Just like with Manu, Curry isn't going to give the Warriors a discount this time around.
Manu's earnings have more to do with timing than anything else.
That didn't affect our cap. Nice try.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/...a-ton-of-money
>Ginobili will be slightly overpaid next season, but who cares, it was a 1-year deal and they used his "Bird" rights to go over the cap to re-sign him. They could've given him a 1-year max and it wouldn't make a tangible difference.
Yup. Amazed people don't understand this yetQuote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
:tu Exactly! Agreed 100%!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Re-signing Manu didn't really effect any thing other than not being able to re-sign Boban. And even that was going to happen before Pop talked him into doing what's best for him. And Boban wouldn't have been a difference maker this year.
Of course not, he took the max at the first chance heīs got, Manu and Tony didnīt take the max untill their very last big contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Its pretty crazy Detroit paid so much for him. I was a big fan of his, but hes only averaging 2pts a game, probably due to playing time. Maybe they think he has a bright future, still alot to pay a bench player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_7
Chinook you know very well and pop and rc also said this in past interviews that during his first FA he took less than his market value over that 6 year contract to stay here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Even if the Denver offer was not there he could easily have taken a shorter contract (3-4 years) here or anywhere else and cash in younger and for a longer term than his 3 year max contract.
He was not a restricted free agent during that span, and could have dictated the terms to stay here or anywhere else if he wanted. Anyone would have agreed for a 2 year contract worth 12 million and then hit free agency again in 2006.
By any means i say Manu was massively underpaid, just that he didnīt take the advantage of the tools he had to come up with better more profitable contracts.
I don't get it. They paid him all that money and only play him 5 minutes a game. WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs9
Maybe they thought the Spurs would match and they could go for Gasol. Or maybe they are just dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_7
Well, he was talking about 2013 Manu, not 2016 Manu. Both made $14 Million. PtR was wrong about how it affected his cap, but obviously, in 2013, the Spurs had no cap for it to affect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
I personally don't give a shit what PATFO say in interviews. Anyway, not Manu players go the Lebron route to taking short-term deals to maximize their potential earnings. Manu took a long-term deal at possibly slightly generous salaries for the same reason why Curry did. He valued the long-term security most. That's not a selfless decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
He was underpaid, just like Parker was. And he held the team's feet to the fire in 2010 and in 2016 to make up for it. But did he give up money to be a Spur? Not really. I doubt if you asked him about that when he signed the deals that he would have felt that way.Quote:
By any means i say Manu was massively underpaid, just that he didnīt take the advantage of the tools he had to come up with better more profitable contracts.
Manu took the max in 2010-2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_7
Thatīs what i meantQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
:cry He's only made 130 million in his career in salary alone :cry
Kind of pathetic we're talking about these idols as if they made some kind of *sacrifice*
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by MultiTroll
Manu and Gasol should've taken less. No doubt about it. Obviously you can't blame them, but they hamstrung the team for sure.
I think this year counts as Manu's last big contract. 2010 Manu was still more than worth his deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
I thought we were talking about now? Manu taking his only Max contract in 2010 has no consequence on this year's salary. He constantly took less through out his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
It is relative.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiTroll
No, he didn't. When you sign a six-year deal that guaranteed on both sides, you don't keep getting credit for sacrificing just because you out-perform the back end of the deal. There was nothing Manu could do about it after he signed the deal. He's only really taken less once, and that was last year. That was the only time where it was obvious he could have gotten a lot more money and decided to take whatever the Spurs could give. Now there are Denver rumors, but those are pretty unsubstantiated. Not even as strong as the Philly rumors this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_7
Anyway, you were agreeing with a post that said Manu only took the max at the end of his career. That's not true. He took it the first chance it was a realistic option.
I was agreeing with the statement that Manu has taken less for most of his career. And yes he could have taken more elsewhere. Denver was willing to pony up for him in like 2004 or 2005 or something, but he took less to remain in San Antonio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Why anyone here gives two shits about the salary is beyond me. Do you get dividends from profits? If not, just worry about the games. You're getting wins and some room to shit talk teams that aren't. That's all that matters, because in June it's going to be GS and Cleveland and we know this.
There was a rumor that he could have made more. But that was unsubstantiated. Besides that an last year, he's taken at least as much as he could have realistically got. And literally, the statement you agreed with said Manu didn't take the max the first chance he could get. That just isn't true. He wasn't a max-level player until well into his second contract, and his third reflected that. It's like saying Curry sacrificed for the Warriors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre_7
You call it a useless move now but, not when he was signed.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
"Nice, decent move, but bittersweet with Tim's retirement(which was probably a selling point for Gasol).." - Can't quote you because the post was deleted :lol
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8653634
Wrong. Tony and Manu took the most money they can from the organization in every one of their contracts. Try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaji157
I didn't have a problem with the Gasol signing at the time, but I changed my mind on it being a "good" signing the same week, which is why I deleted it(always delete my posts that don't represent my feelings anymore)..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoops Czar
The same week:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Gasol is definitely better than last year's Duncan in a vacuum, tbh..problem is the lack of chemistry with Gasol and the over-prioritizing of the frontcourt..Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
He's a better offensive player than a 39 year-old cripple but he's half the defender Duncan was even at his advanced age. His help defense and rim protection is some of the worst I've seen in decades for the Spurs. He's basically the Tony Parker of front court players and the worst part about is that he looks like he doesn't even give a damn. Dedmon should be eating into this nigga's minutes big time by March/April because not only is he a better player and more deserving of playing time but, it might be the only thing that ensures this brownie face opts out.
I agree with all of that..I was optimistic, because his rim protection #s from last season were actually elite, but I guess there was a reason Bulls fans absolutely hated him:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hoops Czar
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Thanks for being the voice of reason, and pointing out facts. It's why a fan proclaiming they are done, is not an excuse to Softridge. They are both a big part of the offense and get minutes guaranteed, plus have a good portion of shots and the ball when they are on the floor. On top of that they are leaders. No matter the stinkers they put out there they won't be benched... etc. That makes up some dead weight that Kawhi must carry. And considering how important guard play is in the league, its a big hole that both of those guards are in that list.
I bitched just about the same with Bonner (who in the history of the best Spurs' years is really a footnote), but I kept being told it's PATFO's fault.
This should be no different, tbh
I was screaming that PATFO should sign Lin/Aldrich (to replace Manu/Tim) during the offseason but nobody wanted to hear it.:rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Lin is making $12 mil a season for the next 3 years. Where is that money going to come from? We're already at $111m+ this season. Signing Lin would put us at $123m, 2nd in the league... and do you think he would be the difference maker against Golden State?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Instead of giving Pau 16 mill, they could have signed Lin/Aldrich.:wakeupQuote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
So you're saying Lin and Aldrich wasn't going to lead to a championship? Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
That guy that can't get off the bench on a bad team with a subpar center ahead of him? You want him for ~$24mil over the next 3+? That's your solution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Dedmon couldn't get off the Magic's bench, bad teams are bad for a reason.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
And everyone thought he was going to suck here too. Are you saying that every player from another team who's riding the pine could be a good player here? We should just trade for everyone else's scrubs and we'd win 80 games in a season! :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm
Cole Aldrich on a contender (Cripples) was one of the best backup center in the league, he's a proven player not some scrub putting up empty stats on the Sixers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Dedmon was an elite rim protector/rebounder in Orlando his major flaw was that had terrible hands & was foul prone which isn't an issue now since he plays limited minutes & Manu isn't throwing fastballs to him.
what i meant is that this year it not a max deal and its not multiple years. manuīs last big contract for me was the 3 year extension he took for the max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
You delete all your embarrassing takes is what you're sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Yeah, I'm just giving you shit, I actually think he'd be a decent player for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm