Kawhi's defensive numbers... Skewed a bit?

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

If you're talking about this, he's elite this season.

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That list is incorrect. The NBA's real leaders in deflections are Tony Porker's player fans.

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

So numbers prove that Kiwi was riding Tim's coattails? And kiwistans thinks this argument is in his favor? :lmao

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:lmao

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

So numbers prove that Kiwi was riding Tim's coattails? And kiwistans thinks this argument is in his favor? :lmao

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Read the article. :lmao

Kawhi locks down whoever he is guarding. Blame the rest of the starters.

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Originally Posted by Dre_7

Read the article. :lmao

Kawhi locks down whoever he is guarding. Blame the rest of the starters.

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People don't read or care much about context/facts, etc here. They have their agendas and proceed with their trolling and what not

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

People don't read or care much about context/facts, etc here. They have their agendas and proceed with their trolling and what not

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:tu

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Originally Posted by SuperCam

So numbers prove that Kiwi was riding Tim's coattails? And kiwistans thinks this argument is in his favor? :lmao

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Yes, to a degree he was riding Duncan's coattails defensively. But to the same extent, he's being hampered by a matador center.

Also, his defense was bound to take a slip given his greater offensive burden. His PPG are currently higher than any of Duncan's years except 2001-02 and USG% higher than any of Duncan's regular seasons. That + Gasol replacing Duncan = tell the story

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Originally Posted by Chinook

It's not impossible to explain away his defensive numbers, but it's not easy. Right now, the Spurs defense gets better without him by a good portion. If that holds up for a season, everything else is just an excuse.

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Kawhi is leading ALL the qualified players on the team (those who have played at least half as many minutes) in DRtg & is just right behind Dominos (doesn't play w/ Porker/Pau) who is supposedly playing All-NBA level defense.:rolleyes
The best defensive unit has been Dedmon/LMA/Kawhi/Simmons/Patty:wakeup

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ka...ing-the-spurs/

Really interesting article (didn't see it posted).

The biggest ? at this point is why some Parker and Gasol lineups end up being net positives for us on defense. It's really bizarre.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ka...ing-the-spurs/

Really interesting article (didn't see it posted).

The biggest ? at this point is why some Parker and Gasol lineups end up being net positives for us on defense. It's really bizarre.

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I posted it here :) http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post8826514

It's very strange, but maybe because they end up playing more against some 2nd units in spurts? Idk honestly. But surely, this is why stats need to be taken with context (like some backing up the claim Anderson was the best defensive wing on our team)

It's encouraging that we can get much better on both ends.

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Originally Posted by Dre_7

Read the article. :lmao

Kawhi locks down whoever he is guarding. Blame the rest of the starters.

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Just finished reading it, pretty depressing. Dedmon deserves a shot at starting in hopes of improving the defense.

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Originally Posted by cd021

Just finished reading it, pretty depressing. Dedmon deserves a shot at starting in hopes of improving the defense.

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Agreed. I think he'll get his shot, I just think it'll take a little time. When you bring in a guy like Pau, I feel like there's a mutual respect where you give at least 3 months or so to see how it goes, maybe even longer in some cases. I think when Playoffs role around, Dedmon will be starting

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Agreed. I think he'll get his shot, I just think it'll take a little time. When you bring in a guy like Pau, I feel like there's a mutual respect where you give at least 3 months or so to see how it goes, maybe even longer in some cases. I think when Playoffs role around, Dedmon will be starting

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Good point.
I can see the change happening in the playoffs. Even a couple weeks after the All Star game, maybe. Pop is going to be patient, as long as they are winning.
Things will happen as he sees fit, and he takes chemistry and familiarity with the playbook into account. Dedmon better place his brain into that playbook, is all I can say.
And show consistency on his mid-range. Show commitment to Engelland and what he says.

"Corporate Knowledge"

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Some quotes from here.. Mostly stuff we knew already, but sharing anyway/









http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ka...ing-the-spurs/

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Thanks for posting. Great article from Matt Moore. That explains to me why the team defensive numbers are worst with Leonard on the floor. His teammates are so bad, they're making him look bad when he hasn't been anywhere near as bad as I thought.

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Some have claimed Kawhi's defense has taken a major hit due to his DRTG/DBPM, etc...

I agree there has been some slippage, but not nearly what the stats reflect. Matt Moore of CBS sports pointed out what Butler was doing last night, basically leaving Kawhi in no mans land on a couple plays.

He is basically left away from all the action unable to help, and driving into the lane will usually result in points based off Pau being out there, vs Duncan last year. I'm wondering if other teams use this method as well, I'd be interested to go back and see if other teams/players deployed this strategy. It would make sense as to why there's some droppage in his numbers. I truly think come January, if the defense remains this poor, we'll see Dedmon starting over Pau. That could be the minor tweak needed to get that SL going again.

He's going to explain a bit why Kawhi's numbers say one thing, when his effort/play might show another. I'll update the OP once its up.

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Think of what you are saying. KL effectively took the other teams BEST PLAYER and made him stand in a corner. That sir, is a defensive win. Its actually the white flag.

Great article. This effect isn't as worrying against the Warriors and Cavs, though, because neither has inconsequential wings to limit Kawhi's destructiveness on defense.

With the amount of energy Kawhi has to spend guarding Durant and LeBron, though, he might take a step back on offense. I'm not sure the Spurs can score well enough like that.

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Originally Posted by tholdren

Think of what you are saying. KL effectively took the other teams BEST PLAYER and made him stand in a corner. That sir, is a defensive win. Its actually the white flag.

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I agree. Some nights it'll work, and others it wont. It's really just to emphasize that Kawhi hasn't necessarily stopped playing great defense or had some major slippage like some have argued. There were some who felt K. Anderson has played better defense cause his DRTG was better. And i brought this up really to show everything needs context.

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

Great article. This effect isn't as worrying against the Warriors and Cavs, though, because neither has inconsequential wings to limit Kawhi's destructiveness on defense.

With the amount of energy Kawhi has to spend guarding Durant and LeBron, though, he might take a step back on offense. I'm not sure the Spurs can score well enough like that.

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Agreed, and it might be part of why we did well against the Warriors, though it was just 1 game and early.

The p&r defense has to improve though. And Dedmon will improve there due to his ability to guard the perimeter.

Agreed about the offense. It's really about which Mill/Simmons/Aldridge etc... show up. If they show up, we can match anyone imho

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

Great article. This effect isn't as worrying against the Warriors and Cavs, though, because neither has inconsequential wings to limit Kawhi's destructiveness on defense.

With the amount of energy Kawhi has to spend guarding Durant and LeBron, though, he might take a step back on offense. I'm not sure the Spurs can score well enough like that.

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I'm not sure if Pop will put Kawhi on Durant in the first quarters. Last playoffs, he gave Danny that assignment and put Kawhi on him just int he last minutes of the game, plus Kawhi destroyed Klay in the first game.

Sadly, Pop can't use his last season strategy against GSW. He put Kawhi on Dray to prevent Curry-Green P&Rs in the game the Spurs won but with KD for Barnes, they can't put LMA or Parker on him.

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

It's really just to emphasize that Kawhi hasn't necessarily stopped playing great defense or had some major slippage like some have argued.

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Thanks for posting the article!

This is the only thing that matters in the long term.

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"We know he's still locking up whoever he is facing"

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Also, I'd love to see Kawhi playing more time with Mills and Dedmon instead of Parker/Pau.

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Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Kawhi is leading ALL the qualified players on the team (those who have played at least half as many minutes) in DRtg & is just right behind Dominos (doesn't play w/ Porker/Pau) who is supposedly playing All-NBA level defense.:rolleyes

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I wouldn't even try to use DRtg to justify the argument. DRPM is much easier. The last thing you want is to get Kawhi compared to Carlos Boozer.

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The best defensive unit has been Dedmon/LMA/Kawhi/Simmons/Patty:wakeup

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In their 15 minutes of play time.

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Originally Posted by Dre_7

Read the article. :lmao

Kawhi locks down whoever he is guarding. Blame the rest of the starters.

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The issue is that the article is pretty much wrong. Kawhi shut down Butler, and the Bulls really couldn't score during that stretch. The issue wasn't that Chicago learned how to neutralize the Spurs' D. The issue is that the Spurs managed to be even worse on O than the Bulls without Butler were. .gifs pointing out the successful Bulls plays are disingenuous.

Plus the article itself straight-up says that players are scoring at a better-than-average rate against Kawhi, and the author even showed a perfect example of why in that piece with Wade beating Leonard back door when Kawhi's eyes were across the court. Sure, everyone gets beat and Kawhi doesn't deserve to be shamed for it. But when you act like Kawhi's doing his job and everyone else is failing, it just comes out wrong.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I wouldn't even try to use DRtg to justify the argument. DRPM is much easier. The last thing you want is to get Kawhi compared to Carlos Boozer.

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I think whatever you choose to use, context is important. Look at that list of SF's , and it would be silly to think some of those guys are on Kawhi's level defensively.

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In their 15 minutes of play time.

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Small sample size, but that is probably the best defensive unit, maybe give or take Green. It's also the highest ranked OffRTG of units playing 15 or more mins, and Simmons in there is probably better than Green due to his ability to create off the dribble.

Yet another reason he's the leagues best defender.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

The issue is that the article is pretty much wrong. Kawhi shut down Butler, and the Bulls really couldn't score during that stretch. The issue wasn't that Chicago learned how to neutralize the Spurs' D. The issue is that the Spurs managed to be even worse on O than the Bulls without Butler were. .gifs pointing out the successful Bulls plays are disingenuous.

Plus the article itself straight-up says that players are scoring at a better-than-average rate against Kawhi, and the author even showed a perfect example of why in that piece with Wade beating Leonard back door when Kawhi's eyes were across the court. Sure, everyone gets beat and Kawhi doesn't deserve to be shamed for it. But when you act like Kawhi's doing his job and everyone else is failing, it just comes out wrong.

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I never said Kawhi was perfect but he is doing a damn good job. And the starters are not playing up to their defensive abilities. I think a lot of that has to do with Pau replacing Duncan. Pau is a great offensive player, but definitely a step down from Duncan when it comes to defense. I think if Dedmon starts a lot of the issues with the starters go away.

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Originally Posted by Dre_7

I never said Kawhi was perfect but he is doing a damn good job. And the starters are not playing up to their defensive abilities. I think a lot of that has to do with Pau replacing Duncan. Pau is a great offensive player, but definitely a step down from Duncan when it comes to defense. I think if Dedmon starts a lot of the issues with the starters go away.

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The thing is that there isn't an issue with "the starters". There's an issue with Kawhi. Everyone else is relatively fine, especially without him. Shit, Parker is elite without him. The issue isn't that he forgot how to defend, and it's certainly not that he's so good that teams are leaving him alone. It's that his offense isn't conducive to winning. He won't be the first star to have to admit that. Westbrook is in the same camp.