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Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Draymond Green number 1. Leonard getting the 'we can't give it to you 3 times,' backlash?
http://www.espn.com/blog/golden-stat...-of-year-award
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
No way he gets it. Draymond has been begging for it for years. It's his.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Hopefully he gets MVP instead.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
He can get it 3 times and get more hype, Raymond is having a horrible season.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
DPOY gets watered down after the first one, plus ge will have multiple opportunities in the future because it doesnt look like there will be that many competition outside of Gobert and Green for yearss to come.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Yeah, but Kawhi is hurting the Spurs' defense. :rolleyes
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Let's see how the 2nd half of the season goes.
It would absolute epic if Gobert wins and Raymond and his mom have a massive meltdown
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
He's won twice in a row. Writers take that into consideration.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Raymond living off that "he can guard all 5 positions :cry" myth/persona just like Lebron was a couple of years ago. He gets used and abused by dominant post players like Boogie, and he NEVER guards point guards.
Cute little help defender is all.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
I don't see a real chance for him to win it this year. While he is still a very good defender, he is putting forth way more effort on offense this year night after night. With the way Duncan stepped out of being an offensive focus the last couple of years I was amazed after Pau went out how much difference it made. Both of them are pretty good passing big men Dedmon isn't yet.
Not having a strong bigman to funnel to in Gasol hurts his defense and he has to put forth a lot more effort on offense when Dedmon is in. I don't blame either of them, Dedmon is still fairly young and Gasol has never exactly been a top notch defender. Being older and slower hasn't improved his defense either. With basketball being a team game part of your game always depends on your partners.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
What are Manure's odds. Best Jonathon Simmons and Patty Mills stopper in the league
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GSH
Yeah, but Kawhi is hurting the Spurs' defense. :rolleyes
:lol chinook
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brazil
:lol chinook
:lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Spurs don't scratch top 10 defensive teams without kawhi. That's a fact. :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
:cry he regressed from last year :cry
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
apalisoc_9
DPOY gets watered down after the first one, plus ge will have multiple opportunities in the future because it doesnt look like there will be that many competition outside of Gobert and Green for yearss to come.
Terrible analysis. There are always new prime defenders coming onto the scene.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
Brazil
:cry he regressed from last year :cry
Statistically speaking, yes. And he has had to pick and choose his spots a bit more to conserve for the larger offensive role with Timmy gone.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
Mr. Body
No way he gets it. Draymond has been begging for it for years. It's his.
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Originally Posted by
TrainOfThought5
Hopefully he gets MVP instead.
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Originally Posted by
TheGreatYacht
Raymond living off that "he can guard all 5 positions :cry" myth/persona just like Lebron was a couple of years ago.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
gobert has easily been the best defender this year.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
Spurtacular
Terrible analysis. There are always new prime defenders coming onto the scene.
indeed.. that's what they have been saying when they didn't give it to howard
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Hope Gobert wins like he should, so mouth breather can cry some more.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Body
No way he gets it. Draymond has been begging for it for years.
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Originally Posted by
bklynspursfan
Let's see how the 2nd half of the season goes.
It would absolute epic if Gobert wins and Raymond and his mom have a massive meltdown
This would be good. :toast
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brazil
:lol chinook
Kawhi's still one of the lowest-rated wings on the team in defensive stats. I don't get what's funny. Are we now saying DPOY isn't reputation based?
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
Kawhi's still one of the lowest-rated wings on the team in defensive stats. I don't get what's funny. Are we now saying DPOY isn't reputation based?
And what does that imply. speak. :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Kawhi's averaging career lows in defensive rebounds and steals per 100 along with the lowest block rate since his second season. Career-worst DRtg, easily the worst DBPM of his career and DRPM since the stat came out four years ago. Lowest DWS/48 since his rookie season. There are explanations for it, but the reality is that Kawhi doesn't have a statistical case for DPOY this season.
Not yet, anyway.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
Kawhi's averaging career lows in defensive rebounds and steals per 100 along with the lowest block rate since his second season. Career-worst DRtg, easily the worst DBPM of his career and DRPM since the stat came out four years ago. Lowest DWS/48 since his rookie season. There are explanations for it, but the reality is that Kawhi doesn't have a statistical case for DPOY this season.
Not yet, anyway.
You still side stepped the question. :lol
You keep pasting info without actually explaining what that all means. :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Kawhi is leading his team to a the number 1 defensive team in the NBA. FACTS. :lol
I remember where the Spurs were without Kawhi defensively... :lol
An injury to Kawhi would plummet our defense. And I'm not talking about resting vs shitty competition. :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
dabom
And what does that imply. speak. :lol
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Originally Posted by
dabom
You still side stepped the question. :lol
You keep pasting info without actually explaining what that all means. :lol
I actually hadn't read you post. I was going to put all that in one but then I saw that I had already posted.
To your first non-question, I'm saying that Kawhi was never going to not be in consideration for the award. Public opinion on defense lags way behind performance. I don't think Kawhi deserves DPOY this year. He hasn't been the best defender on his own team -- Dedmon has.
His stats do exactly what I said: They essentially remove any argument that he has a statistical case for the award. He has by many accounts had a career-worst year on that end. And while it's easy (and not inaccurate) to say that's because Tim is gone, other players on the team have actually had strong years, so that's not entirely reasonable. The only argument that Kawhi really has is that the Spurs are the best defense in the league.
Because people assume that's his doing, he may get more consideration. But we'll see the actual judgement of that come out when Dedmon gets a Biyombo-level deal in the off-season.
Does that satisfy your curiosity?
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
I actually hadn't read you post. I was going to put all that in one but then I saw that I had already posted.
To your first non-question, I'm saying that Kawhi was never going to not be in consideration for the award. Public opinion on defense lags way behind performance. I don't think Kawhi deserves DPOY this year. He hasn't been the best defender on his own team -- Dedmon has.
His stats do exactly what I said: They essentially remove any argument that he has a statistical case for the award. He has by many accounts had a career-worst year on that end. And while it's easy (and not inaccurate) to say that's because Tim is gone, other players on the team have actually had strong years, so that's not entirely reasonable. The only argument that Kawhi really has is that the Spurs are the best defense in the league.
Because people assume that's his doing, he may get more consideration. But we'll see the actual judgement of that come out when Dedmon gets a Biyombo-level deal in the off-season.
Does that satisfy your curiosity?
Where was Dedmon before Kawhi? :lmao
Where was old shit bag tim duncan without Kawhi.
These players get a resurgence playing next to Kawhi. hmmm why is that? :lol
I'm pretty sure Dedmon would laugh at you if you told him he was a better defender than Kawhi this year. :lmao
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
dabom
Where was Dedmon before Kawhi? :lmao
He led Orlando in DRtg and DBPM last season. So he was around.
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Where was old shit bag tim duncan without Kawhi.
Laughing at the GOAT defensive player. That's quite the low. He was putting up great defensive numbers without Kawhi too. It's sort of absurd that you didn't know that.
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These players get a resurgence playing next to Kawhi. hmmm why is that? :lol
They didn't get a resurgence playing next to Kawhi. Especially Dedmon, who's played fewer than half of his minutes with Kawhi (despite having started so many more games now).
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I'm pretty sure Dedmon would laugh at you if you told him he was a better defender than Kawhi this year. :lmao
I'm not to sure. Tim might have laughed last year, but Dedmon is more of a self-promoter than Duncan and probably thinks he's the best defender in the league.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
He led Orlando in DRtg and DBPM last season. So he was around.
Laughing at the GOAT defensive player. That's quite the low. He was putting up great defensive numbers without Kawhi too. It's sort of absurd that you didn't know that.
They didn't get a resurgence playing next to Kawhi. Especially Dedmon, who's played fewer than half of his minutes with Kawhi (despite having started so many more games now).
I'm not to sure. Tim might have laughed last year, but Dedmon is more of a self-promoter than Duncan and probably thinks he's the best defender in the league.
I thought it was perfectly clear I was talking about old washed up Duncan immediately before Kawhi joining, not GOAT in his Prime Duncan. :lol
Like Draymond Green said, if you ain't leading your team to a top defensive team, maybe you just ain't a great defender after all. :lmao :lmao
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Let me ask you again. What player loss from the Spurs would have the biggest drop off in team defensive rating? Just answer that one. So people can either laugh at you, or make my point. :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dabom
I thought it was perfectly clear I was talking about old washed up Duncan immediately before Kawhi joining, not GOAT in his Prime Duncan. :lol
Yes, and Tim was STILL posting dominant stats with DeJuan Blair and busted-up Fabra playing next to him. Again, I'm surprised you didn't know that.
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Like Draymond Green said, if you ain't leading your team to a top defensive team, maybe you just ain't a great defender after all. :lmao :lmao
First off, fuck Draymond. Second off, Kawhi's clearly not leading anyone defensively. Just too many teammates having better defensive years than him while he's posting career lows.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
Yes, and Tim was STILL posting dominant stats with DeJuan Blair and busted-up Fabra playing next to him. Again, I'm surprised you didn't know that.
First off, fuck Draymond. Second off, Kawhi's clearly not leading anyone defensively. Just too many teammates having better defensive years than him while he's posting career lows.
WTF does that even mean? :lol
How was our team defensive rating huh? :lmao
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dabom
WTF does that even mean? :lol
Meaning he was still among the league leaders in defensive stats despite having a MUCH, MUCH worse supporting cast than Kawhi has.
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How was our team defensive rating huh? :lmao
It was fine, actually. Hovered between 5-12. His DRtg and on-offs were great.
Seriously, this shitting on Tim to pump up Kawhi is a really bad idea.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
Meaning he was still among the league leaders in defensive stats despite having a MUCH, MUCH worse supporting cast than Kawhi has.
It was fine, actually. Hovered between 5-12. His DRtg and on-offs were great.
Seriously, this shitting on Tim to pump up Kawhi is a really bad idea.
You don't actually know? :lmao
We're talking about defense dumbass. And he did have a resurgence defensively. That is FAcTS. Are you denying them? :lmao
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dabom
Let me ask you again. What player loss from the Spurs would have the biggest drop off in team defensive rating? Just answer that one. So people can either laugh at you, or make my point. :lol
I'm still waiting. :lmao
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Look, you don't need to answer it. It basically solidifies my point anyways if you don't answer it either. :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
dabom
You don't actually know? :lmao
Did you want 2010-2011 only? They were 11th. And Tim was the best defender on that team posting a DRtg of 100 (WAY better than what the Spurs are putting up this season).
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We're talking about defense dumbass.
Dude, stop being a bitch. I'm answering you in good faith, and you can't stop acting like a fucking five-year-old. Tim never fell off defensively until he FELL OFF last year. Tim's DBPM in 2010-2011 was three times higher than Kawhi's is this season. That was the best it had been in years. It actually fell off Kawhi's first year and came back after that.
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And he did have a resurgence defensively.
He did have a resurgence when he got healthy. You can see it the year before Kawhi even got on the team.
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Are you denying them?
I'm not denying that Kawhi helped Tim. I am denying that Tim was some floundering player without Kawhi. Tim without Kawhi, even as an injured old man, was a better defender than Kawhi has been this year. In the same way that Dedmon is helping Kawhi recover his defensive numbers, Kawhi helped Tim. But looking at Kawhi's drop-off in the face of an elite team, it seems like Tim helped him way more than the other way around.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dabom
Let me ask you again. What player loss from the Spurs would have the biggest drop off in team defensive rating? Just answer that one. So people can either laugh at you, or make my point. :lol
You still side stepping? :lmao
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Pretty much agree with Chinook here. This doesn't even mean Kawhi is bad or anything at all.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
yeah they gonna give it to green. Gotta prop up those Warriors. Every 6 or 7 years the league has a team in which they give all the bullshit calls to in order to sell their shitty nba product to the casual fans
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dabom
Where was Dedmon before Kawhi? :lmao
Where was old shit bag tim duncan without Kawhi.
These players get a resurgence playing next to Kawhi. hmmm why is that? :lol
I'm pretty sure Dedmon would laugh at you if you told him he was a better defender than Kawhi this year. :lmao
lmao Spur fans dissing Duncan now to prop up Kawhi "outplayed by Matt Barnes" Leonard
pathetic
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Calling it now barring injury Kawhi will 3-peat and Draymond's momma will have another twitter meltdown. Gobert is deserving but not enough hype for him to win this year.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
lilbthebasedgod
Pretty much agree with Chinook here. This doesn't even mean Kawhi is bad or anything at all.
Really? Chinook has said in every f...season that Kawhi didn't deserve DPOY.
He said in 2016 that Tim was Spurs best defender and the previous season it was...Danny.
According to him, Kawhi NEVER has been the best defender on his own team.
Remember...Chinook was the guy who said two years ago that Kawhi's D was overrated when he had a historic season on D.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
YGWHI
Really? Chinook has said in every f...season that Kawhi didn't deserve DPOY.
He said in 2016 that Tim was Spurs best defender and the previous season it was...Danny.
According to him, Kawhi NEVER has been the best defender on his own team.
Remember...Chinook was the guy who said two years ago that Kawhi's D was overrated when he had a historic season on D.
:lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
Leetonidas
Gobert is the DPOY
Should be.
The same "dirty" argument that people and the media used against Bruce should apply to Dray. But they're giving the award to a defender who kicks other guys in their nuts now.
I guess if Bruce were a Warrior this season...he will win it, nobody would question him.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YGWHI
Really? Chinook has said in every f...season that Kawhi didn't deserve DPOY.
He said in 2016 that Tim was Spurs best defender and the previous season it was...Danny.
According to him, Kawhi NEVER has been the best defender on his own team.
Remember...Chinook was the guy who said two years ago that Kawhi's D was overrated when he had a historic season on D.
Gawd damn. Go easy on em son.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
It's nice to see that Mr. Intellectually Dishonest As Shit has weighed in.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
bklynspursfan
Let's see how the 2nd half of the season goes.
It would absolute epic if Gobert wins and Raymond and his mom have a massive meltdown
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Originally Posted by
rasuo214
Calling it now barring injury Kawhi will 3-peat and Draymond's momma will have another twitter meltdown. Gobert is deserving but not enough hype for him to win this year.
Hoping for this :lol
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
I said Chinook here. Not every time.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Gobert is pretty clearly the DPOY IMO...hope he gets the recognition he deserves, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they give it to Draymond.
As for Kawhi, like Chinook has pointed out, pretty much all of the numbers out there point to him having less of an impact defensively this year. I do think some of it is a bit flukey (the Spurs being 9 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Kawhi off the court, for example), but you can't just completely toss out the fact that virtually every defensive metric out there is saying he hasn't been as great this year. Some other defensive numbers to point out with Kawhi:
Isolation: .97 ppp (32.9 percentile)
PnR ball-handler: .81 ppp (58.9 percentile)
Spot-up: .91 ppp (73.5 percentile)
Opponent's are shooting 1.8% worse than their average when guarded by Kawhi...for comparison, Gobert holds opponents to 6% worse than their average and Draymond holds opponents to 5.4% worse shooting than their average.
So yeah, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for Kawhi this year. As I've said, I think he's been better than the numbers suggest, but he still hasn't been as good as he was in years past. You can't just say "Well he's the best defender on the best defensive team in the league, he must be DPOY!". The Spurs' bench has been phenomenal defensively and that's without Kawhi playing...that's a big reason why the Spurs have the best defense in the league. Obviously some people take it too far by saying Kawhi makes the Spurs worse defensively, but the point remains: the team has managed to be extremely successful defensively even with Kawhi not playing. So just blindly pointing out that the Spurs have the best defense in the league is a bit dumb.
Besides, it's not like the Spurs are miles ahead of other top defensive teams. The Spurs' adjusted DRTG (so adjusted for strength of offenses faced) is 104.34. The Warriors' adjusted DRTG is 104.56, and the Jazz are at 105.13.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
I don't buy the "3rd in a row" argument. If Dwight did it, anybody can.
A more compelling reason is that no top player except Garnett managed to get it in the last 20 years (since the D-Rob/Olajuwon days). It's basically a 2nd rate award, aimed at specialists who can't really shine as top players in the league. Kawhi being less likely to be DPOY just means he's been upgraded to star status and this award is just beneath him at this point. There are only 2 awards worth getting in the NBA: MVP and FMVP. He's already got one and is a serious contender to get the other. It became clear last year when he finished 2nd in the MVP voting. So I say fuck DPOY, bring on the real hardware!
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
uh, DPOY is old news for Kawhi. He's moving onto bigger things (MVP) this year.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
^^Dwight Howard made 4 consecutive All-NBA 1st teams and carried a team to the Finals(and should have won MVP of the league in 2011), in what universe is that not considered a "top player", tbh?
Kawhi isn't going to win in, this year, because he hasn't been as good as the 2 other guys on defense..I agree that it isn't about the "3 in a row" narrative..I didn't expect him to be as great on defense, this season, though, since it's very rare for a perimeter player to sustain his defensive excellence while carrying an offense..
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
People forget how good Dwight used to be. Hell, people forget how good he still is.
Dude's a vile human being, but give credit where it's due.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HarlemHeat37
^^Dwight Howard made 4 consecutive All-NBA 1st teams and carried a team to the Finals(and should have won MVP of the league in 2011), in what universe is that not considered a "top player", tbh?
Dwight "carried" a team to the Finals with 2 other All-Stars...
He was considered a top 5 player for some years, that's true. But I can't think of any coach who changed anything in their game plan because of him. He was never in Ducan's tier, which is why Duncan never got DPOY and Dwight got 3 of them.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Give it to Gobert. Green is a faggot fuck, I never want him to get anything except pain.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
will_spurs
Dwight "carried" a team to the Finals with 2 other All-Stars...
He was considered a top 5 player for some years, that's true. But I can't think of any coach who changed anything in their game plan because of him. He was never in Ducan's tier, which is why Duncan never got DPOY and Dwight got 3 of them.
Plan for Dwight was always related to how to defend him in the post (single or double team, constant fouling, etc.) and how to take him out of the paint on defense because it was pretty hard to work there. It's the reason he was a Lebron killer for a while.
Of course, he isn't in Timmy's tier, but he was a top player while he was getting recognition for his defense. Maybe you mean he wasn't a perennial MVP candidate.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
People forget how good Dwight used to be. Hell, people forget how good he still is.
Dude's a vile human being, but give credit where it's due.
I agree. It's a shame he regressed and became known for his character. He was very impactful (if that's a word) and fun to watch.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
well... it is tough to get the DPOY and the MVP in one season :hat
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
look_at_g_shred
well... it is tough to get the DPOY and the MVP in one season :hat
only two ever have MJ and the Dream
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SpursFan86
Gobert is pretty clearly the DPOY IMO...hope he gets the recognition he deserves, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they give it to Draymond.
As for Kawhi, like Chinook has pointed out, pretty much all of the numbers out there point to him having less of an impact defensively this year. I do think some of it is a bit flukey (the Spurs being 9 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Kawhi off the court, for example), but you can't just completely toss out the fact that virtually every defensive metric out there is saying he hasn't been as great this year. Some other defensive numbers to point out with Kawhi:
Isolation: .97 ppp (32.9 percentile)
PnR ball-handler: .81 ppp (58.9 percentile)
Spot-up: .91 ppp (73.5 percentile)
Opponent's are shooting 1.8% worse than their average when guarded by Kawhi...for comparison, Gobert holds opponents to 6% worse than their average and Draymond holds opponents to 5.4% worse shooting than their average.
So yeah, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for Kawhi this year. As I've said, I think he's been better than the numbers suggest, but he still hasn't been as good as he was in years past. You can't just say "Well he's the best defender on the best defensive team in the league, he must be DPOY!". The Spurs' bench has been phenomenal defensively and that's without Kawhi playing...that's a big reason why the Spurs have the best defense in the league. Obviously some people take it too far by saying Kawhi makes the Spurs worse defensively, but the point remains: the team has managed to be extremely successful defensively even with Kawhi not playing. So just blindly pointing out that the Spurs have the best defense in the league is a bit dumb.
Besides, it's not like the Spurs are miles ahead of other top defensive teams. The Spurs' adjusted DRTG (so adjusted for strength of offenses faced) is 104.34. The Warriors' adjusted DRTG is 104.56, and the Jazz are at 105.13.
:tu
Green already has it wrapped up though because him and the Warriors started campaigning before the season even began and naturally the media obliged. Since so many are biased against bigs, it also helps that he's wing sized. Anytime a non giant is considered a serious candidate, they're likely to win it.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD 21
:tu
Green already has it wrapped up though because him and the Warriors started campaigning before the season even began and naturally the media obliged. Since so many are biased against bigs, it also helps that he's wing sized. Anytime a non giant is considered a serious candidate, they're likely to win it.
Yeah, unfortunately I think Gobert getting it over Draymond is a long shot. Media infatuation with GS + the fact that Draymond has been runner-up the past 2 years will help Draymond's chances greatly.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Eh, can't ignore that the majority of NBA fans and media predicted that Golden State would struggle(or at least have a huge rankings drop-off) without Bogut, defensively..look up all the talk following the first game of the season, for example..the fact that they're still a dominant defensive team is a huge plus for Draymond..
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Kawhi exposed without an elite rim protect behind him :wow
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
SpursFan86
Yeah, unfortunately I think Gobert getting it over Draymond is a long shot. Media infatuation with GS + the fact that Draymond has been runner-up the past 2 years will help Draymond's chances greatly.
It's adds to the LeBron vs Draymond finals matchup everyone has already penciled in for June.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
HarlemHeat37
Eh, can't ignore that the majority of NBA fans and media predicted that Golden State would struggle(or at least have a huge rankings drop-off) without Bogut, defensively..look up all the talk following the first game of the season, for example..the fact that they're still a dominant defensive team is a huge plus for Draymond..
I think that the impact of their defense is exaggerated by a different factor. It's probably impossible to quantify or even validate but it's an oft repeated component of human behavior: I believe that the GSW demoralize most other teams with their 4 all-star, line-up to the extent that the other team reaches a point where they don't play as hard (the in their mind "what's the point?" attitude). I've watched many of their games this season and you can clearly see this dynamic unfold over the course of the game.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
Phenomanul
I think that the impact of their defense is exaggerated by a different factor. It's probably impossible to quantify or even validate but it's an oft repeated component of human behavior: I believe that the GSW demoralize most other teams with their 4 all-star, line-up to the extent that the other team reaches a point where they don't play as hard (the in their mind "what's the point?" attitude). I've watched many of their games this season and you can clearly see this dynamic unfold over the course of the game.
I believe it. When it starts raining threes, even before it gets out of hand, teams probably say, "well thats it, fun while it lasted."
Also about GSW D, they blow teams out but those teams are usually always in the hundreds so cant be all that good. Plus reg season, playoffs, different thing.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
I don't buy that at all. Teams often bring their best games against GS, at least in the first half. I think what helps GS' DRtg is that teams stupidly get into a pace war with them and lose because they aren't efficient if they move that quickly. I never understood why teams get caught up in that shit in basketball, but whatever. So you get a quick Warriors three followed by a terrible three early in the clock by the other team, followed by a three by GS and so forth. That artificially boosts their defense, because against the better teams, they probably won't be able to goad them as easily.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
SpursFan86
Opponent's are shooting 1.8% worse than their average when guarded by Kawhi...for comparison, Gobert holds opponents to 6% worse than their average and Draymond holds opponents to 5.4% worse shooting than their average.
So yeah, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for Kawhi this year. As I've said, I think he's been better than the numbers suggest, but he still hasn't been as good as he was in years past. You can't just say "Well he's the best defender on the best defensive team in the league, he must be DPOY!".
Well, that was the argument last year, Kawhi's numbers were worse than Draymond's, especially opposite player % shooting and still got it.
But Dray, Kerr and the Warriors are crying about that award since 2015 season so Gobert should be the winner but...
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I think he's been better than the numbers suggest
Obviously, he is.
And like Lowe said his SportVU tracking and Synergy numbers are a lot better now than in the first two months of the season.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
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Originally Posted by
Chinook
I don't buy that at all. Teams often bring their best games against GS, at least in the first half. I think what helps GS' DRtg is that teams stupidly get into a pace war with them and lose because they aren't efficient if they move that quickly. I never understood why teams get caught up in that shit in basketball, but whatever. So you get a quick Warriors three followed by a terrible three early in the clock by the other team, followed by a three by GS and so forth. That artificially boosts their defense, because against the better teams, they probably won't be able to goad them as easily.
I dont mean purposely throw in the towel. I mean that its hard to keep your confidence when theyre hitting on all cylinders. You start missing your assignments and your shots stop falling because your nervous about the oncoming onslaught.
I do agree though that its foolish to try to play their game. Which is why the Spurs are built the way they are. Built to slow the game down and take it into the paint, if LA would do that more often.
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
But he sucks this year on d ask Lowe
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Re: Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award
Compare the warriors defensive numbers with and without Durant and you'll see green deserves shit