Leonard only 3rd favourite to win Defensive Player of Year award

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Originally Posted by Leetonidas

Gobert is the DPOY

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Should be.

The same "dirty" argument that people and the media used against Bruce should apply to Dray. But they're giving the award to a defender who kicks other guys in their nuts now.

I guess if Bruce were a Warrior this season...he will win it, nobody would question him.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

Really? Chinook has said in every f...season that Kawhi didn't deserve DPOY.

He said in 2016 that Tim was Spurs best defender and the previous season it was...Danny.

According to him, Kawhi NEVER has been the best defender on his own team.

Remember...Chinook was the guy who said two years ago that Kawhi's D was overrated when he had a historic season on D.

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Gawd damn. Go easy on em son.

It's nice to see that Mr. Intellectually Dishonest As Shit has weighed in.

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Originally Posted by bklynspursfan

Let's see how the 2nd half of the season goes.

It would absolute epic if Gobert wins and Raymond and his mom have a massive meltdown

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Originally Posted by rasuo214

Calling it now barring injury Kawhi will 3-peat and Draymond's momma will have another twitter meltdown. Gobert is deserving but not enough hype for him to win this year.

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Hoping for this :lol

I said Chinook here. Not every time.

Gobert is pretty clearly the DPOY IMO...hope he gets the recognition he deserves, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they give it to Draymond.

As for Kawhi, like Chinook has pointed out, pretty much all of the numbers out there point to him having less of an impact defensively this year. I do think some of it is a bit flukey (the Spurs being 9 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Kawhi off the court, for example), but you can't just completely toss out the fact that virtually every defensive metric out there is saying he hasn't been as great this year. Some other defensive numbers to point out with Kawhi:

Isolation: .97 ppp (32.9 percentile)
PnR ball-handler: .81 ppp (58.9 percentile)
Spot-up: .91 ppp (73.5 percentile)

Opponent's are shooting 1.8% worse than their average when guarded by Kawhi...for comparison, Gobert holds opponents to 6% worse than their average and Draymond holds opponents to 5.4% worse shooting than their average.

So yeah, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for Kawhi this year. As I've said, I think he's been better than the numbers suggest, but he still hasn't been as good as he was in years past. You can't just say "Well he's the best defender on the best defensive team in the league, he must be DPOY!". The Spurs' bench has been phenomenal defensively and that's without Kawhi playing...that's a big reason why the Spurs have the best defense in the league. Obviously some people take it too far by saying Kawhi makes the Spurs worse defensively, but the point remains: the team has managed to be extremely successful defensively even with Kawhi not playing. So just blindly pointing out that the Spurs have the best defense in the league is a bit dumb.

Besides, it's not like the Spurs are miles ahead of other top defensive teams. The Spurs' adjusted DRTG (so adjusted for strength of offenses faced) is 104.34. The Warriors' adjusted DRTG is 104.56, and the Jazz are at 105.13.

I don't buy the "3rd in a row" argument. If Dwight did it, anybody can.

A more compelling reason is that no top player except Garnett managed to get it in the last 20 years (since the D-Rob/Olajuwon days). It's basically a 2nd rate award, aimed at specialists who can't really shine as top players in the league. Kawhi being less likely to be DPOY just means he's been upgraded to star status and this award is just beneath him at this point. There are only 2 awards worth getting in the NBA: MVP and FMVP. He's already got one and is a serious contender to get the other. It became clear last year when he finished 2nd in the MVP voting. So I say fuck DPOY, bring on the real hardware!

uh, DPOY is old news for Kawhi. He's moving onto bigger things (MVP) this year.

^^Dwight Howard made 4 consecutive All-NBA 1st teams and carried a team to the Finals(and should have won MVP of the league in 2011), in what universe is that not considered a "top player", tbh?

Kawhi isn't going to win in, this year, because he hasn't been as good as the 2 other guys on defense..I agree that it isn't about the "3 in a row" narrative..I didn't expect him to be as great on defense, this season, though, since it's very rare for a perimeter player to sustain his defensive excellence while carrying an offense..

People forget how good Dwight used to be. Hell, people forget how good he still is.

Dude's a vile human being, but give credit where it's due.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

^^Dwight Howard made 4 consecutive All-NBA 1st teams and carried a team to the Finals(and should have won MVP of the league in 2011), in what universe is that not considered a "top player", tbh?

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Dwight "carried" a team to the Finals with 2 other All-Stars...

He was considered a top 5 player for some years, that's true. But I can't think of any coach who changed anything in their game plan because of him. He was never in Ducan's tier, which is why Duncan never got DPOY and Dwight got 3 of them.

Give it to Gobert. Green is a faggot fuck, I never want him to get anything except pain.

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Originally Posted by will_spurs

Dwight "carried" a team to the Finals with 2 other All-Stars...

He was considered a top 5 player for some years, that's true. But I can't think of any coach who changed anything in their game plan because of him. He was never in Ducan's tier, which is why Duncan never got DPOY and Dwight got 3 of them.

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Plan for Dwight was always related to how to defend him in the post (single or double team, constant fouling, etc.) and how to take him out of the paint on defense because it was pretty hard to work there. It's the reason he was a Lebron killer for a while.

Of course, he isn't in Timmy's tier, but he was a top player while he was getting recognition for his defense. Maybe you mean he wasn't a perennial MVP candidate.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

People forget how good Dwight used to be. Hell, people forget how good he still is.

Dude's a vile human being, but give credit where it's due.

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I agree. It's a shame he regressed and became known for his character. He was very impactful (if that's a word) and fun to watch.

well... it is tough to get the DPOY and the MVP in one season :hat

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Originally Posted by look_at_g_shred

well... it is tough to get the DPOY and the MVP in one season :hat

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only two ever have MJ and the Dream

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Gobert is pretty clearly the DPOY IMO...hope he gets the recognition he deserves, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they give it to Draymond.

As for Kawhi, like Chinook has pointed out, pretty much all of the numbers out there point to him having less of an impact defensively this year. I do think some of it is a bit flukey (the Spurs being 9 points per 100 possessions better defensively with Kawhi off the court, for example), but you can't just completely toss out the fact that virtually every defensive metric out there is saying he hasn't been as great this year. Some other defensive numbers to point out with Kawhi:

Isolation: .97 ppp (32.9 percentile)
PnR ball-handler: .81 ppp (58.9 percentile)
Spot-up: .91 ppp (73.5 percentile)

Opponent's are shooting 1.8% worse than their average when guarded by Kawhi...for comparison, Gobert holds opponents to 6% worse than their average and Draymond holds opponents to 5.4% worse shooting than their average.

So yeah, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for Kawhi this year. As I've said, I think he's been better than the numbers suggest, but he still hasn't been as good as he was in years past. You can't just say "Well he's the best defender on the best defensive team in the league, he must be DPOY!". The Spurs' bench has been phenomenal defensively and that's without Kawhi playing...that's a big reason why the Spurs have the best defense in the league. Obviously some people take it too far by saying Kawhi makes the Spurs worse defensively, but the point remains: the team has managed to be extremely successful defensively even with Kawhi not playing. So just blindly pointing out that the Spurs have the best defense in the league is a bit dumb.

Besides, it's not like the Spurs are miles ahead of other top defensive teams. The Spurs' adjusted DRTG (so adjusted for strength of offenses faced) is 104.34. The Warriors' adjusted DRTG is 104.56, and the Jazz are at 105.13.

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:tu

Green already has it wrapped up though because him and the Warriors started campaigning before the season even began and naturally the media obliged. Since so many are biased against bigs, it also helps that he's wing sized. Anytime a non giant is considered a serious candidate, they're likely to win it.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

:tu

Green already has it wrapped up though because him and the Warriors started campaigning before the season even began and naturally the media obliged. Since so many are biased against bigs, it also helps that he's wing sized. Anytime a non giant is considered a serious candidate, they're likely to win it.

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Yeah, unfortunately I think Gobert getting it over Draymond is a long shot. Media infatuation with GS + the fact that Draymond has been runner-up the past 2 years will help Draymond's chances greatly.

Eh, can't ignore that the majority of NBA fans and media predicted that Golden State would struggle(or at least have a huge rankings drop-off) without Bogut, defensively..look up all the talk following the first game of the season, for example..the fact that they're still a dominant defensive team is a huge plus for Draymond..

Kawhi exposed without an elite rim protect behind him :wow

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Yeah, unfortunately I think Gobert getting it over Draymond is a long shot. Media infatuation with GS + the fact that Draymond has been runner-up the past 2 years will help Draymond's chances greatly.

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It's adds to the LeBron vs Draymond finals matchup everyone has already penciled in for June.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Eh, can't ignore that the majority of NBA fans and media predicted that Golden State would struggle(or at least have a huge rankings drop-off) without Bogut, defensively..look up all the talk following the first game of the season, for example..the fact that they're still a dominant defensive team is a huge plus for Draymond..

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I think that the impact of their defense is exaggerated by a different factor. It's probably impossible to quantify or even validate but it's an oft repeated component of human behavior: I believe that the GSW demoralize most other teams with their 4 all-star, line-up to the extent that the other team reaches a point where they don't play as hard (the in their mind "what's the point?" attitude). I've watched many of their games this season and you can clearly see this dynamic unfold over the course of the game.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

I think that the impact of their defense is exaggerated by a different factor. It's probably impossible to quantify or even validate but it's an oft repeated component of human behavior: I believe that the GSW demoralize most other teams with their 4 all-star, line-up to the extent that the other team reaches a point where they don't play as hard (the in their mind "what's the point?" attitude). I've watched many of their games this season and you can clearly see this dynamic unfold over the course of the game.

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I believe it. When it starts raining threes, even before it gets out of hand, teams probably say, "well thats it, fun while it lasted."

Also about GSW D, they blow teams out but those teams are usually always in the hundreds so cant be all that good. Plus reg season, playoffs, different thing.

I don't buy that at all. Teams often bring their best games against GS, at least in the first half. I think what helps GS' DRtg is that teams stupidly get into a pace war with them and lose because they aren't efficient if they move that quickly. I never understood why teams get caught up in that shit in basketball, but whatever. So you get a quick Warriors three followed by a terrible three early in the clock by the other team, followed by a three by GS and so forth. That artificially boosts their defense, because against the better teams, they probably won't be able to goad them as easily.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Opponent's are shooting 1.8% worse than their average when guarded by Kawhi...for comparison, Gobert holds opponents to 6% worse than their average and Draymond holds opponents to 5.4% worse shooting than their average.

So yeah, I just have a hard time seeing the argument for Kawhi this year. As I've said, I think he's been better than the numbers suggest, but he still hasn't been as good as he was in years past. You can't just say "Well he's the best defender on the best defensive team in the league, he must be DPOY!".

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Well, that was the argument last year, Kawhi's numbers were worse than Draymond's, especially opposite player % shooting and still got it.

But Dray, Kerr and the Warriors are crying about that award since 2015 season so Gobert should be the winner but...

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I think he's been better than the numbers suggest

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Obviously, he is.

And like Lowe said his SportVU tracking and Synergy numbers are a lot better now than in the first two months of the season.