CBS SportsLine - Positional Rankings: Shooting Guards

Positional Rankings: Shooting Guards
http://images.sportsline.com/images/author/3928.jpg By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer

When you think shooting guard, Michael Jordan's name immediately registers. It's practically an instinctive reflex, a form of mind control that surfaces in instances like calling a tissue a Kleenex, steak sauce A-1, and Vaseline petroleum jelly. They simply go together.

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photo...img8952307.jpg
Kobe Bryant is the league's top shooting guard, according to Tony Mejia. (Getty Images)

This year, more than any other since he retired for good, Jordan should be on the brain, because more than at any other time since then, a battle is brewing to become the next icon.

Amare Stoudemire may eventually become the most feared force in the game, but we're talking shooting guard, Jordan's position. LeBron James, our No. 2 small forward, can certainly swing over and factor into the equation, particularly given his current status and youth. Ditto for Tracy McGrady.

However, neither has won a playoff series, and although Kobe Bryant isn't going to win anything other than a scoring title anytime soon, he does already have three rings and a head start on the competition. Never mind the bad publicity, because we're not talking icon as in pushing Energizer batteries, we're talking icon as in baddest 2-guard in the game.

The final serious candidate is Dwayne Wade, rapidly making strides and leaving mouths agape. He's got an edge thanks to a partnership with Shaquille O'Neal and the status of being the new "it guy". What he doesn't have is the jewelry, ultimately the deciding factor in greatness. It's going to be fun to see what the next leg of this race brings. Here's how they stand now, in our humble opinion:

1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers: Once the boy king, neither connotation fits to describe him, despite the fact the 27-year-old has accomplished more than James or Wade to this point. However, Phil Jackson has stated Bryant is eager to recapture his previous status and should benefit from playing the same role in the triangle offense that Jordan thrived in for so long.

Last year's rankings
2005 2004 Stock
1. K. Bryant 1 SAME
2. D. Wade NR http://www.sportsline.com/images/col...reen_arrow.gif
3. R. Allen 1 SAME
4. V. Carter 7 http://www.sportsline.com/images/col...reen_arrow.gif
5. M. Ginobili -- SAME
6. S. Marbury 6-SG SAME
7. R. Hamilton 4 http://www.sportsline.com/images/col.../red_arrow.gif
8. S. Francis 7-PG http://www.sportsline.com/images/col.../red_arrow.gif
9. L. Hughes NR http://www.sportsline.com/images/col...reen_arrow.gif
10. J. Richardson NR http://www.sportsline.com/images/col...reen_arrow.gif
Complete 2004 Rankings

2. Dwyane Wade, Miami: He still lacks a 3-point shot, but there are few as explosive getting to the rim. What he lacks in size (he's closer to 6-3 than 6-4), he makes up for in hops and fearlessness. His mid-range game is becoming increasingly fine-tuned, which just leaves the deep perimeter shot for him to perfect to become completely unguardable. The Heat would love for him to cut down his turnovers and increase his playmaking abilities.

3. Ray Allen, Seattle: He's the Clyde Drexler of his era -- unquestionably a superstar, however a quiet one playing in a less than major market. It would be interesting to see what happens if the Sonics, who locked him up in the offseason, ever become a legitimate championship contender, as Allen is engaging, smart and outspoken. As of now though, the sweet-shooting scoring machine plays the Drexler role to the emerging Jordans.

4. Vince Carter, New Jersey: After seeing his star fade faster than Kurt Warner's and Wesley Snipes, Carter re-emerged following a midseason trade to the Nets. He enters 2005-06 as a candidate for this year's scoring title, looking every bit the beast he was before the injuries hit and his rep as a malcontent emerged. If he can put together a full season, the chance for the winningest season of his career exists.

5. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio: He's now a household name, certainly worthy of MVP consideration in last year's Finals after a remarkable performance. Naysayers want to call him a flopper ... so? To get hung up on that would mean you miss the other nuances of his game, from the relentless knifing penetration to the dead-eye 3-point shot that balances it out. Beyond that, prevailing in NBA and international competitions in the same season speak volumes of him as a winner.

6. Stephon Marbury, New York: Larry Brown intends to move him off the ball, although it remains to be seen how long that experiment lasts considering the inconsistent Jamal Crawford and rookie Nate Robinson are in line to replace him. Despite his constant presence among the league's assists leaders, taking advantage of Marbury's scoring ability is certainly a worthy experiment that could pay healthy dividends if a capable ball handler can be found.

7. Richard Hamilton, Detroit: He's definitely one of the best at coming off screens and burying teams with the quick mid-range dagger, and he's an underrated defender. As far as his presence in the locker room is concerned, Hamilton is one of those guys you'll never hear teammates utter a negative word about, as he always keeps the mood loose and believes whole-heartedly in the team concept.

8. Steve Francis, Orlando: After the first week of training camp, it looks like Francis might stay put at the point, but considering we didn't rank him there last week, not to mention that he'll be seeing plenty of time at the two alongside Jameer Nelson and Keyon Dooling, we'll place him here. He was demoralized after the Magic traded best friend Cuttino Mobley and still talks about it, but if he gets his head in the game and stays under control, he's deadly. He has to join Grant Hill as a leader of a fairly young squad.

9. Larry Hughes, Cleveland: He might have been an All-Star had he not missed action just before the break, yet came back to lead the league in steals, average over 20 points and help guide his team to the second round of the playoffs. In a new location, he'll team with James to help end a postseason drought, just as was the case last year alongside Gilbert Arenas. A superb defender due to his size and quickness, he'll make the Cavs' offense flow smoother by giving the team another playmaking option. Scariest for the rest of the East? He's just reaching his prime.

10. Jason Richardson, Golden State: He appeared to mesh brilliantly with Baron Davis, which is why so many Warriors fans can't wait to see how much the team can improve with the duo together for a full season. Since coming into the league, he has evolved from a scorer who overly relied on his athleticism to an athletic marvel with a jump shot that can really kill you with once he gets into a flow.

11. Stephen Jackson, Indiana: People are wondering whether he'll be able to handle producing the point production of both himself and Reggie Miller. Having wing partner Ron Artest back on the wing should help, as will the fact he's steadily continued his progression into a go-to scorer over the past few seasons. Now is his chance to make a significant mark and join the best at his position.

12. Ben Gordon, Chicago: There are rumblings that he might start, but whatever his role, the reigning top sixth man and runner-up for top rookie honors is certain to impact on a nightly basis. He's undoubtedly special, clutch and creative in the manner in which he gets his points, but will have to develop as a defender and ball handler to really take off.

13. Caron Butler, Washington: This might be the wild card because we're predicting this to be the year he truly breaks out. He averaged a career-high 15.5 points per game in playing alongside Bryant in Los Angeles last year and should have no problem shouldering the load on his new squad, as he and Jarvis Hayes should get plenty of opportunities. Don't forget how talented this 25-year-old is, and take into consideration that he hasn't truly had the chance to find a true home.

14. Ricky Davis, Boston: There's talk that he'll break back into the starting lineup, but like Gordon, there's no reason to doubt he'll produce regardless of what role he plays. Labeled a head case, Davis did clash with coach Doc Rivers on occasion, but ultimately did what was asked for him, playing all 82 games and averaging 16 points and over three boards and three assists. He still must improve his shot selection and decision-making.

15. Cuttino Mobley, L.A. Clippers: "Cat" should be happier with the Clippers than he was in Sacramento, where he felt he never fit in. Say what you will about his defense, but there is no question he's a gifted scorer who can produce abundantly in spurts. Vowing to be in tip-top shape this year, he has been riding his bike to and from training camp.

16. Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia: He's still learning his role and feeling his way through things, but in three years, it would be surprising not to see Iggy in the Top 10 at his position. He has the potential to be a lockdown defender, makes teammates better with his passing and decision-making, and finishes above the rim. He'll have to develop a stronger floor game, complete with outside shot, but all the tools are there.

17a. Eddie Jones, Memphis: The veteran isn't the scorer he once was, but brings his lunch pail every night, giving you everything he's got on defense and is certainly a class act. He established a reputation for missing the big shot in Miami, but will have a new lease on life among fans eager to embrace someone who can be calming locker room influence, unlike. ...

17b. Bonzi Wells, Sacramento: At this stage in their careers, there is no question he's more talented than Jones, but he has had problems getting along with his coaches, becoming a distraction when unhappy with playing time. He shouldn't have that problem in Sacramento, where he's the clear-cut starter at the two, being counted on to help complement Peja Stojakovic with his ability to post up fellow wings and get to the basket.

19. Desmond Mason, Milwaukee: He'll likely come off the bench with Redd in place and Bobby Simmons on board, but expect him to get his 25-30 minutes and make his presence felt, potentially becoming the player to beat for Sixth Man of the Year honors. In 80 games last year, 71 of them starts, he averaged a career-high 17.2 points and emerged as a lockdown defender.

20. Josh Smith, Atlanta: There is at least one Defensive Player of the Year honor in his bright future, and it wouldn't surprise us if he's a multiple winner. Like Tayshaun Prince, he's a human spider, and what makes him even tougher is perhaps the greatest vertical leap in the league. He's raw offensively, but the world is his oyster. Consider this hopping on the bandwagon now.

Also considered: J.R. Smith, New Orleans; Marquis Daniels, Dallas; Mickael Pietrus, Golden State; Jerry Stackhouse, Dallas; Raja Bell, Phoenix; Tony Allen, Boston; Morris Peterson, Toronto; David Wesley, Houston; Devin Brown, Utah; Gordan Giricek, Utah; DeShawn Stevenson, Orlando; DerMarr Johnson, Denver; Lindsey Hunter, Detroit; Flip Murray, Seattle; Juan Dixon, Portland; Trenton Hassell, Minnesota; Kareem Rush, Charlotte; Latrell Sprewell, Free agent.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/8952297

Is there a team anywhere in the NBA that would rather have Ray Allen or Vince Carter instead of Manu?

I'm just going to go ahead and put something about Wade being overrated in my sig; I'm sure it's getting old hearing me repeat it. :)

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Originally Posted by strangeweather

Is there a team anywhere in the NBA that would rather have Ray Allen or Vince Carter instead of Manu?

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I love what Manu brings to the table, and he has been great in pressure situations, but I would take both Ray Allen and Vince Carter over Manu.

Ray Allen is one of the most prolific 3-pt shooters of the last decade, and his overall game is very good. Manu is a better defender and a better complement in that he does little things. But, Ray Allen is just too good.

I would take Vince Carter because the guy is a straight freak. He's one of those few players in the league who would drop 50 points in a game and most people not be surprised by it, like Iverson or McGrady. If he never does another slam dunk in his career, he will still be one of the best dunkers of all time. Manu might be the more complete player, might work harder, might do more of the little things to help win, but VC is the type of superstar I would want on my team. Others might have changed their minds about Vince and don't think he can carry superstardom. I haven't.


I think it comes down to Manu being a superb team player and a well-rounded complete player. But, Ray and Vince have the natural talent and attitude to be the number 1 go-to guy on a team and be the franchise.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I'm just going to go ahead and put something about Wade being overrated in my sig; I'm sure it's getting old hearing me repeat it. :)

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What Dwyane Wade did in the playoffs last year was no joke. The numbers he put up were ridiculous. And, he deserves all the hype he gets, in my opinion. I agree with his rank as second best shooting guard in the league.

Good list...

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Originally Posted by JamStone

I think it comes down to Manu being a superb team player and a well-rounded complete player. But, Ray and Vince have the natural talent and attitude to be the number 1 go-to guy on a team and be the franchise.

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Uh, do you remember what happened the last time VC (nee "Air Canada") was the "number 1 go-to guy on a team" who was supposed to "be the franchise"? The guy looks for stats and highlight reel plays rather than trying to help his team win, then when it gets too hard, he mails in his performances, malingers when injured, and complains loudly until he finally gets shipped off to somewhere else. It's no accident that the team that tried to build around Carter is now one of the two or three most unmoored franchises in the NBA.

As far as Shuttlesworth goes, he's not a bad guy to have taking the shots for you down the stretch, but I can't see that he's a guy that you can build a really good team around, like you seem to be implying. The Sonics did a brilliant job of playing over their heads last year when things came together all at the same time for a bunch of different players (most of them in contract years), but before that, Allen's greatest success came when wasn't the clear team leader, on a Milwaukee that also sported Big Dog and Cassell. Generally, letting Allen be your "franchise" is going to net you a team like the 37-45 '03-04 Sonics.

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Originally Posted by strangeweather

Uh, do you remember what happened the last time VC (nee "Air Canada") was the "number 1 go-to guy on a team" who was supposed to "be the franchise"?

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I remember. He decided to go to graduation on the day of a playoff game and his team got beat. He then drove his cousin (a better player) out of town and then dogged it until he got traded.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

What Dwyane Wade did in the playoffs last year was no joke. The numbers he put up were ridiculous. And, he deserves all the hype he gets, in my opinion. I agree with his rank as second best shooting guard in the league.

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Well don't get me wrong. I agree that he played really well. He might even be the second best 2 guard on that list, but it's a distant second to Kobe, and the only reason he's second is because LBJ and McGrady are considered threes, Artest has been suspended and Carter has been sluffing for two years. I'm of the opinion that Shaq makes such a difference just being on the floor that he makes it easier for Wade to do what he does. It doesn't mean he's not a really good player. It's not very easy to argue because Manu has Duncan, Wade has Shaq, TMac has Yao, etc. There isn't a 2 I'd rather have than Ginobili except Kobe. If Wade keeps it up I might add him to that list.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

What Dwyane Wade did in the playoffs last year was no joke. The numbers he put up were ridiculous.

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He played the Nets, Wizards...........and Detroit. :rolleyes. I'll give him some points for stepping up against Detroit (other than Game 7, which I felt he was a major reason as to why they lost). But the other 2 teams? Not impressive.

Carter is a pussy. Like Chuck says, "Half man, half a season..."

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Originally Posted by strangeweather

Uh, do you remember what happened the last time VC (nee "Air Canada") was the "number 1 go-to guy on a team" who was supposed to "be the franchise"?

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Yeah, he single-handedly carried his team to the playoffs and then had a couple 40 point games against the Philadelphia 76er team that went to the finals. After that, he was plagued with injuries and got frustrated with Raptor management and copped a bad attitude. Just because he had a couple of bad years in Toronto where injury played a role and he showed a poor attitude doesn't mean you take away the 3-4 ABSOLUTELY GREAT years before that where he was a great leader by example and phenomenal player. I would still want him on my team. He sells tickets and is much more marketable. He's as exciting a player there is in the league. And, when he wants to, he can dominate games. It's a preference.

Sometimes it's the team, coaches, teammates, management and ownership that causes a player like Vince to show that attitude. Look at Rasheed Wallace in Portland and his last two years in Detroit. The environment and a winning team can do wonders for a player. Who's to say that if Manu played for Toronto he wouldn't get frustrated and exhibit similar attitude problems?

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Originally Posted by strangeweather

As far as Shuttlesworth goes, he's not a bad guy to have taking the shots for you down the stretch, but I can't see that he's a guy that you can build a really good team around, like you seem to be implying. The Sonics did a brilliant job of playing over their heads last year when things came together all at the same time for a bunch of different players (most of them in contract years), but before that, Allen's greatest success came when wasn't the clear team leader, on a Milwaukee that also sported Big Dog and Cassell. Generally, letting Allen be your "franchise" is going to net you a team like the 37-45 '03-04 Sonics.

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Ray Allen was the focus of the Milwaukee Bucks team, not Glen Robinson or Sam Cassell. And, it's not fair to count the 03-04 Sonics season when Ray Allen only played in 56 games and played several of those injured. It would be fair to say Ray Allen could have made a difference in those 26 games he missed. And, by the same token, if you put Manu Ginobili on last year's Seattle Sonics team in place of Ray Allen, I don't think the Sonics do any better, and might do worse. The arguement is not whether Ray Allen is a franchise player or not (I happen to believe he is, but that's just my opnion). The argument is whether you would rather have Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili. It's fine if you pick Manu. It's just my opnion that I'd rather have Ray Allen.

I'd rather have the Ray Allen of 5 years ago, but now? Manu in a heartbeat.

The real question is who would you want in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals at the 2 spot? I'm not seeing VC there.

That guy knows nothing of what he talks about.

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Originally Posted by Sense

That guy knows nothing of what he talks about.

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*beep* *bird* *bleep* *choochoo* *evil* *harp* *meow* *slap* *welcome* *whip*

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Originally Posted by strangeweather

Is there a team anywhere in the NBA that would rather have Ray Allen or Vince Carter instead of Manu?

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Yep. 30 of them infact. Every team would take the perenial All-Stars Carter and Allen over the guy who plays a measly 29 minutes a game.

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Originally Posted by 1Parker1

He played the Nets, Wizards...........and Detroit. :rolleyes. I'll give him some points for stepping up against Detroit (other than Game 7, which I felt he was a major reason as to why they lost). But the other 2 teams? Not impressive.

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Ummmm, Larry Hughes was named to the All NBA Defense team last season. And, the trio of Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson all took turns trying to defend Dwyane Wade. And, all three of those guys are capable defenders, not great, but no bums on defense.

Dwyane Wade's stats were SICK:


Against New Jersey: 26.2 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 8.8 apg on 50% shooting
Against Washington: 31 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 8 apg on 53.7% shooting


I don't care who you are playing. Those numbers are ridiculous. And, it's playoff pressure. And, in the Washington series, Wade played against Hughes, Arenas, and Dixon. None of those guys are slouches on defense, and Hughes is a lockdown defender.

1Parker1,

If you're not impressed by those numbers, then it must take a hell of a lot to impress you, because those statistics from an undersized shooting guard who doesn't even shoot 3 pointers are completely phenomenal. Put him on a college team against college competition, they would still be impressive stats. Most impressive is the FG percentage in both series.

The question is....Could Manu carry a NBA team as the main option. Who knows. I say no. He's probably the best complimentary player in the L, but Pop knows what he's doing by playing him those minutes. He's not wore out for the end of games and that's what matters.

What a crap list. What the hell is Carter doing above Manu? Carter is a showboy period. He cant be counted on on defense and things like assists and steals. Manu should be above him.

Why in the hell is Marbury no. 6? What has he proven at shooting guard? Can he really play without the ball constantly in his hand? This guy is still the self proclaimed best point guard.

Where the heck is Michael Redd? Im not saying hes top 10 or something but no where on the list? This list is getting crappier by the minute.

Why the heck are Caron Butler, Desmond Mason and Josh Smith on the list? I dont remember them being shooting guards.

Looking at the back up list also makes me laugh. Some of the names there arent shooting guards either.

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Originally Posted by Medvedenko

The question is....Could Manu carry a NBA team as the main option. Who knows. I say no. He's probably the best complimentary player in the L, but Pop knows what he's doing by playing him those minutes. He's not wore out for the end of games and that's what matters.

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Good points, but neither Kobe nor Wade have proven they can carry a team as the main option either.

I didn't say anything about carrying a team to the playoffs...just being the # option. In the later years when Shaq was on the Lakers, Kobe had more points and played a more dominent role. This year is the year that Kobe proves yet again that he's the best player in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by Medvedenko

I didn't say anything about carrying a team to the playoffs...just being the # option. In the later years when Shaq was on the Lakers, Kobe had more points and played a more dominent role. This year is the year that Kobe proves yet again that he's the best player in the NBA.

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So when you say "carrying a team" you don't mean carrying a team to any particular destination, just carrying them, while attempting to imply that Kobe was carrying a team with Shaq on it (all the way to a second place finish). Well, if the Lakers do well this year, isn't it becuase Mr. "I ain't go to jail" is there dropping 20 and 10 on everybody?

BTW, Kobe had the best statistical season of his career last year. Why would this be "the year" he has to prove that he's the "best player in the NBA"? Oh yeah, because he didn't carry them to the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Dalamar_the_Dark

What a crap list. What the hell is Carter doing above Manu? Carter is a showboy period. He cant be counted on on defense and things like assists and steals. Manu should be above him.

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Manu is definitely a more intenst defender than Carter, but in terms of getting steals or assists, Carter averaged about the same amount of assists as Manu last year and throughout each of their respective careers, in fact slightly more. And, Carter averaged about the same amount as steals as Manu, just slightly less.

One could very well argue Manu should be above him. One could argue Vince should be above Manu. It's a subjective opinion, and that's all it is.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

BTW, Kobe had the best statistical season of his career last year. Why would this be "the year" he has to prove that he's the "best player in the NBA"? Oh yeah, because he didn't carry them to the playoffs.

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Actually, Kobe had his best statistical season in the 2002-2003 season. This year he has to again prove himself because last year he got an injury that sidelined him 16 games, and had he been there, he may have been able to help the Lakers make the playoffs. And, if he had gotten last year's Laker team to the playoffs, that would have been something.

When I think of Vince Carter, I think of Damon Stoudemire (and Avery Johnson): No team with Vince Carter will ever win an NBA championship.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

Sometimes it's the team, coaches, teammates, management and ownership that causes a player like Vince to show that attitude. Look at Rasheed Wallace in Portland and his last two years in Detroit. The environment and a winning team can do wonders for a player. Who's to say that if Manu played for Toronto he wouldn't get frustrated and exhibit similar attitude problems?

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Part of my takeaway on Sheed is that he couldn't handle everyone expecting him to be the guy, when he just wanted to be one of the guys. Now that Carter is happily plugging away on a team led by Jason Kidd, it looks like that's going to be his ticket as well.

If a guy is the 4th option on a team that isn't built right, he may pull all sorts of stupid stuff and blame it on the franchise. If the team is built around him, however badly, he needs to suck it up and do whatever he can, or he's not a real franchise player. A lot of people around here have it in for Garnett, but I'm not one of them -- when his team collapsed around him, he did everything he could to put them on his shoulders anyway. That's a franchise guy.

Can Vince add a lot to a team as a 2nd or 3rd option? Sure. Jersey got a sweet deal when they traded scraps for him. But any GM who tries to fit him into the franchise mode again after this is bound to be disappointed with the result. And if you're looking for someone to slot in as a #2 guy, I think you'll get a guy who will do many more things to help you win with Manu.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

Ray Allen was the focus of the Milwaukee Bucks team, not Glen Robinson or Sam Cassell. And, it's not fair to count the 03-04 Sonics season when Ray Allen only played in 56 games and played several of those injured. It would be fair to say Ray Allen could have made a difference in those 26 games he missed. And, by the same token, if you put Manu Ginobili on last year's Seattle Sonics team in place of Ray Allen, I don't think the Sonics do any better, and might do worse. The arguement is not whether Ray Allen is a franchise player or not (I happen to believe he is, but that's just my opnion). The argument is whether you would rather have Ray Allen or Manu Ginobili. It's fine if you pick Manu. It's just my opnion that I'd rather have Ray Allen.

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There are lots of good things about Ray Allen over his career, and I don't want to sound like I'm discounting them all. I think Manu has passed him by now, but I think it's fair to agree that reasonable people can disagree on this -- I feel a lot more strongly about Carter.