NBA Cracking down on flopping

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/b...la-sports-heat

NBA crackdown: Let's don't do the flop

By Ira Winderman
Staff Writer
Posted October 12 2005


MIAMI · While Monday's exhibition opener basically was a meaningless exercise, what preceded that game against the Spurs was not.

Hours before the Heat's 103-101 victory, the team met with veteran NBA referee Bennett Salvatore to discuss this season's officiating points of emphasis.


Among the topics was closer scrutiny on players who embellish the appearance of contact when attempting to draw charging fouls.

Previously, three things could happen on such a play: the offensive player could be called for a charging foul, the defensive player could be called for a blocking foul, or the referee could allow play to continue.

This season, the latter option more often will be called as a defensive foul if the referee believes the defender "flopped," that is, fell without legitimate contact.

Considering the Heat works relentlessly on drawing charging fouls, with an aggressive rotating defense, the rule could be especially punitive to power forward Udonis Haslem.

However, coach Stan Van Gundy said he embraces the anti-flopping sentiment, considering the number of questionable charging calls that go against center Shaquille O'Neal.

"I'd love it, because I think we've got the guy in the league that more people flop on than anybody," Van Gundy said. "I think that there's probably an average of a foul a game on that on him. If they would knock it off altogether, I'd be very happy.

"I was writing the league. I wish they'd get tougher on it. From what they're saying, they're working on not getting fooled on the flop."

Haslem said the flopping against O'Neal has become so overt that something should be done, even if it brings further scrutiny on himself.

"I'm usually taking my charges on somebody driving to the basket out of control and their momentum is coming toward me," Haslem said. "Whereas the Big Guy is just taking one step back and guys are falling. He doesn't really even have enough momentum to charge those guys."

Still, Van Gundy figures as long as O'Neal's defenders are inches shorter and almost 100 pounds lighter, there is only so much empathy that can be engendered.

"It's very hard to call a flop," Van Gundy acknowledged. "We talked about it with Bennett. You can't say a guy's flopping, so go penalize it. It's very difficult to make that determination."

Other points of emphasis being stressed in seminars with referees are:

Yet another supposed crackdown on palming, with crossover dribbles that seemingly take seconds to complete.

Defensive 3-second calls for not actively guarding an opponent in the lane.

Violations for screens that are set without allowing for a single step by defenders.
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In a related story, Manu Ginobili announced his retirement today.





































*awaiting the Wrath of the Church*

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

In a related story, Manu Ginobili announced his retirement today.





































*awaiting the Wrath of the Church*

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So the true reason for Vlade Divac retirement comes out.

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Originally Posted by TMTTRIO

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/b...la-sports-heat
However, coach Stan Van Gundy said he embraces the anti-flopping sentiment, considering the number of questionable charging calls that go against center Shaquille O'Neal.

"I'd love it, because I think we've got the guy in the league that more people flop on than anybody," Van Gundy said. "I think that there's probably an average of a foul a game on that on him. If they would knock it off altogether, I'd be very happy.

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:rolleyes :smokin :baby :jack :cry :rollin

:rolleyes Thank goodness, finally Shaq will get the protection from the refs that he deserves. Maybe it's just the conspiracy theorist in me (and probably alot of other Spurs fans) but I think this rule is targeting Manu. Which is pretty unfair. For years the most egregious offenders have been big men (see Divac, Vlade and Lambeer, Bill) Hell, Big Ben hit the deck a few times when Parker was going to the hoop, so think what you will there. Hopefully this will just be like every other year when they say they are going to call things differently and nothing really changes. Like the palming thing, they say that every damn summer and it just keeps getting worse.

ehh, I think Manu is profesional enough to be able to adapt.

Quote:

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considering the number of questionable charging calls that go against center Shaquille O'Neal.

"I'd love it, because I think we've got the guy in the league that more people flop on than anybody," Van Gundy said. "I think that there's probably an average of a foul a game on that on him. If they would knock it off altogether, I'd be very happy.

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:rolleyes
oh brother - 98% are NOT flopping against Shaq.... thats like flopping against the jolly green giant. impossible. Some folks fall over just from the vaccum pressure his breathing creates. really. the man is a monster.


also - i don;t see this as being a problem for Manu.

Evidently, flopping consists of being hit with an elbow to the face.

Proportinately Shaq at his stated 340 lbs backing down a 250 lb center is equivalent to a 260 lb center backing down a 190 lb PG. Does this mean Duncan will be able to bang his backside into Jason Williams and if he does and Williams goes down it's a foul on Williams?

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Originally Posted by ObiwanGinobili

also - i don;t see this as being a problem for Manu.

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:lol

You should watch a Spurs game sometime.

Yeah Shaq needs all the breaks he can get this year. The way he lowers his shoulders and clears out with his elbow, that should be called every time...also Salvatore is a piece of sh!t.

Players flop because otherwise the refs won't call pushing or charging fouls. Supposedly, it's a foul to push a player out of position, but the refs will never call it unless it's an elbow to the face or a kick to the groin (not always then, either). Although you will sometimes see a pure flop without a push, the best floppers will time a hard push with a flop.

This rule will create more controversy than it solves. Now a bad call is the difference between a foul and no foul. With this change, a bad call means a foul on one player goes to the other player.

This marks the end of Reggie Evan's career.

Translation: Heat will make the finals this season.

Sincerely,
the NBA

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

This marks the end of Reggie Evan's career.

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... and Fortson. There goes the the Sonics' entire defensive scheme.

Hahahaha! Apparently some officials want to celebrate April Fool's Day a little early this year.

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Previously, three things could happen on such a play: the offensive player could be called for a charging foul, the defensive player could be called for a blocking foul, or the referee could allow play to continue.

This season, the latter option more often will be called as a defensive foul if the referee believes the defender "flopped," that is, fell without legitimate contact.

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Ok, now how the hell can you call a defensive foul, if there was no contact ???
This seems really silly to me.

It only makes sense it they "reward" the defender with a technical foul (for simulation - similarly to soccer, where players who fake a fall get a yellow card), but that option seems even more screwed up ...

Since the NBA rules video showed Manu properly taking a charge, I doubt he's in any danger of being rendered ineffective. All Manu has to do to stop the appearance of flopping is to cut his hair. I've never seen him pull a Vlade and fall without contact. That's not typically something a superior player does. This rule is probably being reinterpreted to give Shaq an advantage because he can't move his feet and has to rely on going through people to get to the basket. If that's the way they do it then Duncan will add another move to his post game.

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Originally Posted by nkdlunch

Translation: Heat will make the finals this season.

Sincerely,
the NBA

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Good way for Stern to get them in I guess.

This is the stupidest thing I ever heard. If the refs thought that there wasn't contact, they wouldn't call the foul. It's not like they were allowing flopping, they just got fooled. Whoever thought this new "rule" up needs an IQ check.

So don't worry, Argentina. Manu (and now Oberto) will get to flop to their hearts content.

I like the premise behind it, but the logic is flawed. The NBA should discourage flopping, but to rely of referee judgement in real time is not a good idea. Basically, this opens the door to a referee being wrong twice on one play.

I think it would be better to issue a small fine after review. But a "flop" needs to be specifically defined. Drawing a charge is not flopping. If you're standing upright and an NBA player hits you with a shoulder, you're going to fall.

"Points of emphasis" are so fucking weak, and stupid, and damaging to the overall integrity of the game i think.

So are last years "points of emphasis" no longer important? Will we see players getting hand checked and forearm checked more often now?

Stupid.

Now they're gonna be calling legitimate charges as flops, just wait.

Yeah this is ignorant. Now Shaq can runover people at will!

Manu doesnt flop as much as he gets credit for I think. I actually think his game is graceful and coordinated to only his mindset can comprehend. It's just a unique affective talent nobody else can do like he does. Every player is different of course, but I'm sure crap was mainly over Manu and Shaq.

Seems to me like uncle Reg retired just in time :D

Reggie was unique in that he was the master of the OFFENSIVE flop.

It won't help the Heat because Wade flops just as much or more than Manu.

Manu didn't hurt himself flopping like Wade did in the ECF at least. :spin

Wasnt there an article some where that the refs were showing at the beginning of training camps demonstrating the that correct way to draw a charge was a video showing Manu getting run over by a Seattle player?

I just found this today. I'm getting sick of all the coaches complaining on Manu's flopping (it's not like he's the only player in the league doing it but it's starting to sound that way). You can bet the refs will be watching him closely.

Quote:

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A discussion about flopping (deliberately falling down so as to draw a charge) came up. The Suns aren't known to do it much (a cynic might say you have to guard people before you can flop) and hate it when others do. "Jack, it's hard to get that charging call if you don't accentuate the fall," says Mike. "That means that certain guys -- let's say Ginobili -- really accentuate and always get it." As if by magic, a clip from the 2005 Finals comes on the screen, and everyone howls when the Spurs' Manu Ginobili draws a charge on Detroit's Lindsey Hunter, recoiling so forcefully that it looks as if he's been propelled from a catapult.

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So, a question for anyone who has seen the games so far, has there been any instances of this so far? Does it seem like they are enforcing it?