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https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/spu...lessing-curse/
nice interesting article.
brings up how having a strong bench is somewhat diminished by the fact that a team's best lineup is the most important aspect in the postseason and lack of continuity has blurred that this season. (Plus the decline of Tony it must be said).
Probably Manu, Green, Kawhi, Aldridge, Gasol.
Parker/Mills (whoever has it going)
Green
Leonard
Aldridge
Gasol/Lee (whoever has it going)
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
So his point was because last year's champs had their starting 5 on the floor 37.5% of the time the Spurs need to? A little bit of a muddled article, if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
I think the writer has a few good points but he was all over the place. His point is well taken that the lineups have played so little minutes together comparatively to other teams that even their effectiveness can be the result of a small sample... but more than that there's little chemistry built up. In reality the only one would be Pau...Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Mills and Manu have played a lot with Lamarcus and Kawhi going back to last season season with the same style. In reality the change is Pau bc he's new and Tony who is done as an elite player and Pop going to Mills to close games etc.
A more interesting article would have chronicled the history of championship starting units. But, alas, that would have involved some real journalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
It depends on the matchup, like against gsw I prefer Simmons over both Gino and Danny
Sports journalism has given up trying to be real journalism. Where have you gone Frank Deford? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
"... Boo-hoo Hoo!" (With apologies to Paul Simon)Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
But Im also thinking that Parker could thrive off the bench too. It makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Manu
Manu
Leonard
LMA
Gasol
Pretty sad that the GOAT Manu at 39 years old is performing better than 95% of our roster tbh.
Hah! Considering our record I think thats fucking awesome! Though Ginobili is behind Bird and Duncan imo.
2 of Manu/Patty or Green depending on whether you need offense or defense
Kawhi
LMA
Gasol
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
It's really kind of amazing if you go back 4 years to 2013. Tony was in his prime making All-NBA teams, and Tim looked like he'd last forever, but Manu was running on fumes. Now, its 2017, Tim is gone, Tony is on empty, and Manu is still a key rotation piece. Weird how that flipped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius Bieber
This, but depending more in how they've been playing that particular game.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
A healthy Tim Duncan would have made chemistry much easier, and would have made just about any SL in the league competitive.
The biggest problem with this roster is that we have two PG's and two C's who are good enough to wreak havoc off the bench, but marginal as starters. You can mix and match players all you want to, but that's not going away.
I wouldn't mind seeing what would happen with Manu starting in place of Green, to give some playmaking support to Tony. He would have to come out early, but that's what is happening with Dedmon.
Parker
Green
Kawhi
Gasol
Lamarsha
Big ass lineup led by HOTS
Mills or Ginobili
Kawhi
Anderson
Aldridge
Gasol
This is the lineup that blew out the Cavs
Agree on the PG's, and probably Lee, but Pau is still a top ten center in this league. That may have more to do with the decline of the big man in the NBA, but he is still arguably the 3rd best player on the team. Even with his defensive weaknesses he'd be more than a marginal starter. As a 6th man, if he'd spend the whole year in the role, he'd be a serious contender for 6MOY.Quote:
Originally Posted by GSH
Or Mills, Manu, Kawhi, Aldridge, Gasol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
This seem to be the one Pop is trying to develop.
Mills, Manu, Kawhi, LMA, Gasol
Making Pau the 6th man was clearly a boon to him, personally, and to the team. That gives LMA and Pau both a higher usage rate. Moving him back to the starting unit would greatly reduce the effectiveness of the second unit. It makes me wish that Pop had paired LMA/Diaw and Tim/DWest last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeGuy
All of the experimentation during the year wasn't just Pop fooling around. He knows he has players with experience, with experience with the team, newbies, etc. And that makes a potentially potent team but he sees that the positives and negatives of some players make matchups the key. His eye is always on the championship playoffs and his line up in one playoff series might be different than against a different team. You have to have some regular season experimentation to find the best matchups.
I think Pop realizes that some "starters" may not be the best group against certain teams. Both Gasol and Parker have aged enough to become a problem on defense against certain teams--but they can really tear up the second team.
Pop is coaching this team with matchups in mind and some new players (Lee, Dedmon, Bertans) still learning the system and their Spur teammates still learning their skills. And in a league going small, he's turned that upside down by going long at times.
And yet they are second in the league and knocking on a 60 win season. Is any coach in the league doing a better job? I think not.
Bravo!:toastQuote:
Originally Posted by wildbill2u
Pop has got to have the shortest playoff leash he's ever had on Tony..
:lol @mid
Warriors death lineup on steroids. :wow :worthy:Quote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
Do it right son. midnightpulpQuote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Let's see what he has to say.
Heck, let's throw DPG21920 into the mix too.
According to them, Mills can only work alongside Manu.
:lmao
Patty "pressured" Mills :lol
It's great that Mills appears to be doing well with the starters. He's younger than TP and many want him to start. Its only 44 minutes for an entire 2nd half of the season basically so ridiculously small sample, but hopefully Mills can finally prove himself in the playoffs and earns that next contract .
Somewhere else.. tbh..Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
It's a very short sample indeed. Mills starting caps the Spurs ceiling significantly over the next 3-4 yrs.
Let Mills walk.
Parker has been especially awful post all-star break..That's essentially him dragging own the initial starting lineup for most of the season to the tune of -15..ouch....
FIFYQuote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
I agree about Mills, and also if Tony came to his senses and decided to retire in the offseason we would be in a pretty good position, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
What concerns me is the new starting lineup, the one with Dedmon the majority of the season now, is underwhelming with both TP and Mills. It's been better with Mills post all star than TP, but TP has 3x the minutes. Dedmon has fallen off a lot since his peak this season and Danny has been in an extended slump. I think that has more to do with it than Mills/TP.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
That Pau lineup has not been a starting lineup the vast majority of the 2nd half. The first half of the season, TP was better than Mills with the same unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
Like Manu, no one is turning down 15M to play. Even if you are in a reduced role where you look like a TOSB many nights.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Why are you turning this into a Manu v Tony thing? Then you go and cry about folks that do the same. But anyways:Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
40 year old Manu is still an overall plus for the team, and his 15 millions never hurt the Spurs cap situation.
34 year old Tony is the biggest liability on the team and his contract has fucked the Spurs chances of getting better players in previous seasons and will do so one more time this next offseason.
You are under the impression that I shit on Tony only 'cause I have an Argie flag under my username but the reality is that I have always been a Tony supporter and the only reason I'm currently shitting on him is 'cause he's so obviously the biggest reason this team has no real chance of winning a championship and will probably still be that reason next season. If Manu was as big of a liability as Tony, I would be here asking him to stop shitting on his legacy and retire already.
I've never cried tbh...I literally have a medical condition to where my eyes do not produce tears.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
TP's contract has been fine. Spurs landed LMA with TP. Pau with TP. Really has not prevented anything. No more than Manu. Manu taking that first Spurs offer would have allowed the team a shot at keeping Boban. So, yes, Manu has hurt SA too even if he's been better than TP (Manu still not worth 15M obviously).
I think it's clear the Spurs best lineups don't feature Tony. Pop might start to look around at how to get minutes out of him with the bench. He did against OKC to start the 4th bc he wanted to close with Patty.
Good news is more than ever, Pop has shown no issues yanking TP. Mills has closed a lot of games so if Pop sticks with TP it's because he believes TP is the best option (not out of loyalty). Mills has had numerous chances either via starting (a few games) or getting just as many minutes as TP/closing games to prove himself.
He will continue to get those opportunities. But again, TP playing well, although rare, is obviously the highest ceiling for this team.
Getting rid of Boban allowed us to get Dedmon, so no, Manu didn't cost us shit, tbh. Without TP's contract the Spurs could have probably improved the non-Manu wing situation and, more importantly, the PG situation. Which is this team's fatal flaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
This has already been hashed out by those of us that understand the cap better than you (not knocking you, just saying it's been hashed out). Spurs, if Manu would have taken the lower deal, could have had everything they have now + Boban.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
But not to derail the thread. This was a thread about the lineups this year and you brought up TP retiring for some reason that has nothing to do with this topic and I felt it necessary to address your point.
I already knew that son, but so what? Why are you making it look like losing a 3rd string center was a major loss or something? :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Because I was answering a post that talked about not re-signing Mills to not hinder our cap situation. So I agreed with that, and added that it would be nice if Tony retired too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I never said it was a major loss. Im just pointing out that with TP's deal, SA still landed major pieces in LMA & Pau & Lee & Dedmon. It really didn't cost SA anything and SA still a great team. Manu's deal didn't cost SA anything either was just making a point that if you are getting technical, Manu did impact SA some too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
:lol Sure, it's just not realisticQuote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Without that awful contract they gave Tony some years ago we could probably have a starting level PG on the roster right now, and contend for real.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Never said it was, I was just dreaming out loud.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I mean, SA is the 2nd best record in the league tbh..Also, TP was playing well when he got the deal and it's still not as lucrative as what you would probably consider "starting level" PGs on a title team. So let's say you had a CP3 instead of TP, that player would be making more money and probably doesn't allow SA to have LMA etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Would be more than cool with that, tbh. In fact, I think I would trade LMA for CP3 straight up, right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
CP3, Green, Kawhi, Pau, Dedmon >>> Tony, Green, Kawhi, LMA, Dedmon.
Mills-Ginobili-Leonard-Aldridge-Gasol
I'm not clear on the theory that we needed to keep Boban since he would be behind Pau, Dedmon, Lee at center. We can even play LMA at center if pressed by injuries or something. Boban was fun and an intriguing player but you wouldn't keep him in place of any of those players.