Why can't Enrique accept his role player status?

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

:wow. You're biased.

Maybe the first shot was forced, although I'll take Tony one-on-one on a fast break against William Baldwin IV or whatever the fuck his name was. He erred by trying a spin move.

The 2nd attempt was no "hero." He gave up the ball as soon as he got it to Kawhi who then deferred to Gasol, who actually had an open 3 he probably should've taken. Tony got the ball with 10 left on the clock. He took his man to the top of the key, but NO ONE moved. Kawhi didn't flash over, House stayed parked in the corner. Gasol stayed put along with LMA. A one-on-one with a backup scrub PG was the best option during that sequence.

"But he shoots so bad now in the paint :cry"

You do realize Tony is shooting .568 from 0-3 this year, right? In fact, Tony is shooting from 0-10 feet better than someone like Damian Lillard.

And I find it funny that you criticize Tony's 0 point games. When he has those games, he's doing the exact thing you guys want him to do. Defer, defer, defer. And what's the horseshit about "routinely" putting up zero point games? He's had one this season. Maybe you're talking about games where he doesn't make a field goal? He's only had 5. And in all games, he took less than 7 shots, doing what you want: deferring. Pick a lane.

I'm on board with the heroball criticism when Tony settles or forces that 18 footer, but I don't see how anyone can complain when he's trying to attack. And this is what's irritating. You guys have such a hate boner for him, you'll nitpick pretty much anything.

I don't like/love Tony as much as I dislike crappy arguments and opinions. When he deserves it, by all means, lay it on. But most of the time your "criticisms" are simply whining about a player you personally don't like.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

He had 2 FGAs, 2 FTAs during that stretch. The rest of the team had 1 FGA. You're really going to sit there and act like that's a coincidence? Like that was the team's best option to put them away? He forced the issue for himself, not in the sense that he took absolutely horrible shots, but in the sense that he decided to make himself a protagonist. That's something a low-tier player should never do. In other words he doesn't know his place.

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Parker makes over $14M per year. Steph Curry only makes $12M. Parker must be better.

Stupid quote since Parker didn't do any of that.

He passes the ball to your hero (Kawhi). He didn't want it. Gasol didn't want the shot. And then he got the ball back with 10 seconds left on the clock, and when Parker starts initiating the action, no one fuckin' moved. No one was open. But yeah, you want to see Kawhi chuck contested 26 footers like Luva used to love watching Kobe do.

One-on-one with Willie Baldwin? Yeah, good matchup. Vet (who shoots .568 on layups, so there's goes your Parker doesn't finish anymore argument) vs. a scrub.

Bellyache when he forces 18 footers. I'll be on your side then. Your latest axe to grind here just comes off like bitching.

I love that pic with "wide open layup" when in the image you see a Memphis defender covering Parker's shot.

Also "he didn't have passing-lanes" Sure. But what's about a few seconds ago? He had the option to let Kawhi run the play...Or give Mills the ball to attack the rim.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Yeah, and midrange jumpers are shit.

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It seems someone forgets that midrange shots have won many games in the last seconds for the Spurs this season

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Stupid quote since Parker didn't do any of that.

He passes the ball to your hero (Kawhi). He didn't want it. Gasol didn't want the shot. And then he got the ball back with 10 seconds left on the clock, and when Parker start initiating the action, no one fuckin' moved. No one was open. But yeah, you want to see Kawhi chuck contested 26 footers like Luva used to love watching Kobe do.

One-on-one with Willie Baldwin? Yeah, good matchup. Vet (who shoots .568 on layups, so there's goes your Parker doesn't finish anymore argument) vs. a scrub.

Bellyache when he forces 18 footers. I'll be on your side then. Your latest axe to grind here just comes off like bitching.

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He had 2 FGAs, 2 FTAs. Kawhi had 1 FGA. The rest of the team had none. Tell me who was the protagonist during that two minute stretch then?

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Games played this season: 56
Number of games with 20+ minutes and 5 or fewer points: 15
March FG%: 39.0
March 3pt%: 31.3
March FT%: 40.0
Games played since Jan 31: 22
Games since Jan 31 with ZERO field goals made: 5
Games since Jan 31 with 2 or fewer FGM: 12

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Yeah, no thanks. I'll take something else, please. Anything else, actually.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

I love that pic with "wide open layup" when in the image you see a Memphis defender covering Parker's shot.

Also "he didn't have passes-line" Sure. But what's about a few seconds ago? He has the option to let Kawhi run the play...But Parker wanted the ball.



It seems someone forget that midrange shots have won many games in the last seconds for the Spurs this season

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Parker had him beat. His shot contest was a foot late. Nice spin, though.

Midrange shots are shit. Jerry West tied a game with a 50 footer. Guess those are good shots, too.

What? He passed the ball to Kawhi early in the clock who gave it up.

Here's what happened a "few seconds ago." Parker "gibs bawl to Kiwi in his spot to "run play."

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2ahej2f.jpg

Kawhi then deferred right after.

This is why I don't take anything you Kawhi fanboys say seriously. Your selective memory is off the fuckin' charts.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

He had 2 FGAs, 2 FTAs. Kawhi had 1 FGA. The rest of the team had none. Tell me who was the protagonist during that two minute stretch then?

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Kawhi got touches every time down in his spots. Not Parker's nor anyone else's fault if he doesn't initiate any offense.

Look, I already blew your fucktarded recollection up. Parker didn't dominate the ball during those possessions. He gave it up quick, only to get the ball back after. The fast break shot was the only shot he "forced," but I guess Parker isn't allowed to make mistakes.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Parker had him beat. His shot contest was a foot late. Nice spin, though.

Midrange shots are shit. Jerry West tied a game with a 50 footer. Guess those are good shots, too.

What? He passed the ball to Kawhi early in the clock who gave it up.

Here's what happened a "few seconds ago." Parker "gibs bawl to Kiwi in his spot to "run play."

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2ahej2f.jpg

Kawhi then deferred right after.

This is why I don't take anything you Kawhi fanboys say seriously. Your selective memory is off the fuckin' charts.

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Then the ball ended up in Parker's hands with only 10 seconds left, so with no other options he did the right thing and went 1-on-1!

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Yeah, no thanks. I'll take something else, please. Anything else, actually.

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He's only taken 7.8 shots during March, meaning he is a mammoth made .9 FG from 50% shooting. This is what you guys wanted. Low volume where his inefficiency isn't troublesome. And you're fuckin' getting it.

But what you don't get is that House ain't going to be enough, so you better get on board with Parker finding some kind of gear and getting touches, or we'll likely be sitting here after getting bounced in the second round bitching and moaning again.

Danny Green irritates me as much as any other player, but guess what, we don't go anywhere without him shooting 3s, so I want him to keep taking them. You analyze this shit like you're playing 2K. "Well, I can play my backups 30 minutes per game and get away with it because his 2K rating is 80 while my stater's is 75." Real world doesn't work like that.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Then the ball ended up in Parker's hands with only 10 seconds left, so with no other options he did the right thing and went 1-on-1!

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You dumb?

Tell me where the "options" are here?

House? No passing lane.

Kawhi? No passing lane.

Pau? Yeah, let's give him the ball while's he's manned up and see if he can dribble out of it.

Dribble over and pass it to Kawhi? Means Kawhi is taking a contested 26 footer or a dribble-stop contested midrange shot.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/jfk8yw.jpg

If Kawhi wanted the shot here, he should've done something earlier in the fuckin' clock. But I get it, you think this is NBA2K.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Parker had him beat.

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He was enough close to bother him, I wouldnt say it was "wide open"

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Midrange shots are shit. Jerry West tied a game with a 50 footer. Guess those are good shots, too.

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How many West 50 footer won games? Kawhi shots have did it almost 5-6 times this season.

What you don't understand is mid-j can be inefficient for most players not Kawhi. Like those 10 feet behind the 3-point line are bad for everyone but Curry.

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What? He passed the ball to Kawhi early in the clock who gave it up.

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A true PG would keep his best scorer going with reps. Don't let him give up, Parker! Don't try you to make his job, it won't work. Just pass the ball to him, again.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

He was enough close to bother him, I wouldnt say it was "wide open"


How many West 50 footer won games? Kawhi shots have did it almost 5-6 times this season.

What you don't understand is mid-j can be inefficient for most players not Kawhi. Like those 10 feet behind the 3-point line are bad for everyone but Curry.



A true PG would keep his best scorer going with reps. Don't let him give up, Parker! Don't try you to make his job, it won't work. Just pass the ball to him, again.

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MIdrange shots are inefficient for everyone. I don't care if you shoot 50% from those spots. A three point shooter only has to shoot 33% to equalize 50% production from the midrange.

You notice Kawhi's 3PA increasing after the Warriors game? Now why do you think that is?

So now it's Parker's fault when Kawhi doesn't move over to a spot where Parker can get him the ball in a good position? :lmao

Kawhi fanboys, more deluded than Kirby fanboys.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

MIdrange shots are inefficient for everyone. I don't care if you shoot 50% from those spots. A three point shooter only has to shoot 33% to equalize 50% production from the midrange.

You notice Kawhi's 3PA increasing after the Warriors game? Now why do you think that is?

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There is a big difference between being inefficient and not being enough to beat a superteam with ton of great shooters.

Kawhi's mid-j isn't inefficient per se If you mean his shot or him can't beat GSW? We already know it after LBJ one-man-team 2015 Finals. Also, after KD sign in last offseason.

Since Kawhi doesn't have a scoring guard to take pressure off like LeBron in 2016 Finals... Its likely the team with 4 All Stars in their prime will beat the team with just 1 and a bunch of old guys in big roles. So what's the big deal???

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

So now it's Parker's fault when Kawhi doesn't move over to a spot where Parker can get him the ball in a good position?

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I remember a play against Bucks in MIL last season, it was to close a quarter I guess the 1st half. Kawhi gave Manu the ball to run the play but Manu passed Kawhi the ball again, raising his hands like "It's yours. Go to work" Then, Kawhi made a 3-point off the dribble.

That's the type of plays I expect from Parker. Don't let Kawhi lose his aggressivenes...Game 5 in OKC series should be a teaching-moment for our starting PG. Keep Kawhi going.
I wonder why this is so easy to realize for Manu, Mills...And too hard for Parker.

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Kawhi fanboys, more deluded than Kirby fanboys.

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Do you not know the last news? Kobe's fans are Kawhi's too, now

OP is a fucking moron when topic is Parker tbh.. not sure why people bother

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Originally Posted by gambit1990

"tony did good down the stretch. that's why he didn't play in OT."

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Pop didn't want to give up the game plan for the playoffs which is to get back to the head of the snake days.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

OP is a fucking moron when topic is Parker tbh.. not sure why people bother

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I've never seen such frothing-at-the-mouth bias against a single player.

I have no problems when the arguments are sensible and realistic solutions are outlined, but that's not the case with 99.9% of the helmet crew's content. It basically boils down to "Bench Tony!"

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Let's take a look. I'm starting at the 5 minute mark when Tony was supposedly "killing the team" with bad plays.

Here's the 1st TO. Kawhi found Tony who took one dribble and attempted a quick pass to a wide open Simmons. I see nothing wrong with this. There was no "hero-balling" here nor was it an irresponsible play. Memphis defender simply made a good steal. Kawhi turned it over on the previous possession, Simmons turned it over on the next one, but no one said anything about that.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/zk3cyh.jpg

Play 2:

http://oi66.tinypic.com/28jv6zb.jpg

Tony had a step and should've driven straight ahead for a layup. He didn't "go into 3 defenders" as Gasol was clearly beat and the other play out of position. Tony did FUCK UP though by trying a cute spin move instead of just keeping it simple. Now he brought Fat Gasol back into the play:

http://oi67.tinypic.com/demb1e.jpg

That said, he did create a wide open layup for himself which he simply muffed:

http://oi65.tinypic.com/2zsxph1.jpg

But I still don't like trying the spin. Just makes a layup all that much harder.

"Tony freezes out Kawhi in crunch time to hero." Well, this play wasn't a good example of that. Tony got the ball with about 17 seconds left and found Kawhi seconds after:

http://oi64.tinypic.com/ofub74.jpg

Kawhi got trapped and back passed to Gasol, who then found Tony with 10 seconds left on the clock.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/jfk8yw.jpg

Tony has no passing lanes here. All men are marked. So you can't just expect to "give it up" in this situation. Where's he going to pass it to? The result was a clear out iso (which the other players were on board with since they didn't move from their spot up positions through the entire sequence) and Tony got a good look out of it:

http://oi67.tinypic.com/a4sy2p.jpg

And the Spurs are going to NEED Tony creating these type of shots down the stretch in the playoffs. It just can't be Kawhi-all-the-time during the last 5 minutes of the 4th. And rewatching the last 5 minutes, Tony gave the ball up pretty much every time down. So he did his "job" more than he didn't do it and only attacked when there was a breakdown. But again, I do not like his fancy spin move, which is really the only bad play he made in the last half of the 4th quarter.

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You're preaching logic to the illogical. They will just find some way to spin it into Tony hate because that's their agenda.

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Originally Posted by midnightpulp

I've never seen such frothing-at-the-mouth bias against a single player.

I have no problems when the arguments are sensible and realistic solutions are outlined, but that's not the case with 99.9% of the helmet crew's content. It basically boils down to "Bench Tony!"

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well for me it is not even that tbh... you can make your case about Spurs would be better with Patty starting and limit Parker minutes to 10 or Spurs would be better trading him for a peanut bag...

the biggest issue with helmet crew is the: parker is selfish, he does not accept his new role, he is an asshole, he does not want Manu and Kawhi to shine etc... here people with a brain show evidence that what they call hero ball was the correct play or that those stuff are pretty stupid to say but they are so blinded by their hate they cannot even see it... This crew would prefer a Kawhi attempt from deep on top of the key with 3 players covering him than a Parker lay up attempt... smh

At the end what matters is not Spurs success just Parker failure... we went from player fans to player haters in this forum... ridiculous. OP is obviously the worst of them, he hated prime Parker years tbh

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Originally Posted by Brazil

well for me it is not even that tbh... you can make your case about Spurs would be better with Patty starting and limit Parker minutes to 10 or Spurs would be better trading him for a peanut bag...

the biggest issue with helmet crew is the: parker is selfish, he does not accept his new role, he is an asshole, he does not want Manu and Kawhi to shine etc... here people with a brain show evidence that what they call hero ball was the correct play or that those stuff are pretty stupid to say but they are so blinded by their hate they cannot even see it... This crew would prefer a Kawhi attempt from deep on top of the key with 3 players covering him than a Parker lay up attempt... smh

At the end what matters is not Spurs success just Parker failure... we went from player fans to player haters in this forum... ridiculous. OP is obviously the worst of them, he hated prime Parker years tbh

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FWIW, there's no case there either. I blew up that helmet crew myth the other day. Patty is so good with the bench, that starting him would be a crime. Some reading:

Time to blow you up, again.

Seriously, do you and your lover Gambit ever think anything through? So your cute start House fantasy comes true AND THEN WHAT? What do you with Parker? I've asked this question before and I get *crickets*.

"He can come off the bench for 15 minutes."

House playing 33 min per against Western Conference playoff team starting PGs. :lmao

House against Houston this season: 24.5mpg, 8.5ppg, 40%FG, 4.75apg.

Against Golden State (with Curry): 20.5mpg, 8.5ppg, 38%FG, 2.5apg.

Against the Clippers: 21mpg, 7ppg, 32%FG, 2.3apg.

Against OKC: 21mpg, 7.6ppg, 41%FG, 1.0apg.

And this is primarily against those teams' backups

"I bet Porker doesn't do much better."

Parker plays the most of his minutes against the starters. But what you fail to comprehend is that even if House is, say, 20% better as the starting PG over a large sample size, Tony would probably be 100% worse off the bench. Let's look at some numbers.

2 man lineups (Tony plus one of the main bench players)

with Gasol: +7.8net

with Lee: +1.5net

with Manu: +5.8net

with Fathead: +0.6net

with Simmons: -1.1net

Avg net with all bench players: +2.92

Now Patty:

with Gasol: +9.3

with Lee: +15.7

with Manu: +12.3

with Fathead: +17.7

with Simmons: +15.9

Avg: +14.18

And most importantly, Patty's net ratings were achieved over a LARGE sample size, unlike his starting lineup net rating, achieved over 86 min and 47 min respectively. It's fuckin' nothing. So why the fuck do you want to remove a player who works obscenely well with ALL bench players to the tune of a 14.18net rating and replace him with a player that works with those same players about 11 points worse in net rating?

Here's even more simple math for you.

We KNOW Parker with the current starters is good enough for an average 8.4 net since we have a decent sample size. We KNOW House works at an average 14 net with the main bench players because we have a huge sample size. Thus, 8.4+14.18=22.58 net rating for the rotation overall.

Here's what your retarded plan looks like: House with the current starters (a 47 minute sample size ): 14.3 net. Parker with the main bench players: 2.9 net, = 17.2 net rating for that rotation overall.

So if we employ the "start House" idea, we risk the Spurs rotation overall dropping over 5 net rating points. And there's is ZERO evidence to the contrary that it would "work."

Shut it fuckin' down, indeed. Think next time you come at me. Goes for the other helmet, too.

tl;dr Starting Patty risks a -5 net rating drop

It was cute how thought you "got me" though. Bet you celebrated with gambit last night over some cocktails and heavy petting.

"...hopefully if I keep copying and pasting this one post that proves nothing people will start taking it seriously!"

:lol

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Originally Posted by Dex

You're preaching logic to the illogical. They will just find some way to spin it into Tony hate because that's their agenda.

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Exactly...It's just a waste of time, regardless of the validation of what's being said/shown.

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Originally Posted by 140

"...hopefully if I keep copying and pasting this one post that proves nothing people will start taking it seriously!"

:lol

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"Hopefully if I keep posting emoticons, someone will pay attention to me."

:cry "Kawhi needs help" :cry

:flipoff "Tony trying to take the spot light from Kawhi by shooting." :flipoff