We need some Dijon

Our backcourt is fucking atrocious right now. He could play in place of anyone for some stretches and especially when someone is having a bad game *cough or series cough manu*. Pop and some posters refuse to play the kid over Patty, Parker, Green, or Manu because of his age and inexperience but he honestly will bring more versatility than any of those players. Dijon can get to the rim and finish, shoot the 3 decent enough they can't leave him open, and he can play defense. Seriously, this league is about having players that can do multiple things... not one fucking thing and be good at it. Danny can shoot 3s (i guess) and play defense but cant drive or even fucking dribble. Patty can shoot and get to the rim but has a hard time finishing or playing defense due to his size. Manu has been really bad all-around. Last but not least, even though he is killing it this series, he just doesnt do enough things to make a big impact... Parker. Parker can hit that corner 3, he has been hustling on defense, but he struggles getting to the rim and keeping a defense rotating.


Rant over... I really want to see Dijon and it could be in place of anyone with extended minutes other than Parker, atm.

Who the fuck is Dijon?

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Originally Posted by DMC

Who the fuck is Dijon?

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He's not on the team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...murrade01.html

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Originally Posted by Chews

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...murrade01.html

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Wrong link.

The only way to beat memphis is with guys who can collapse the defense, and either score at the rim or draw defenders and kick it out. Murray excells at this, and he did it extremely well in the few minutes he played in game 3, even against conley and their starters.

For this reason, pop will sit him the rest of the series.

Pop wont trust in a rookie. However, if we look at our guards' production, he should.

I'd give him run over Patty in stints just to get a look, but I'll never be Pop.

It's very possible Memphis' excellent defense would destroy him. His game needs work.
He got hurt at the most horrible time.

He will get a chance in 8 years.

I'd give him a run at times over Patty specially nights he's going 1-7 and things of that nature. Pop won't do it. /sigh

Also, Warriors are playing McCaw by the way.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

I'd give him run over Patty in stints just to get a look, but I'll never be Pop.

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Honestly, I'd give him all of simmons minutes and about 5 minutes of Manu. He can't possibly be any worse. We've seen what he can do as an offball player.

I don't want to see Leonard or Parker driving to the rim..swings the ball only for Simmons, Ginobilo and specially Anderson reset the offense. It's so maddening.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

I'd give him a run at times over Patty specially nights he's going 1-7 and things of that nature. Pop won't do it. /sigh

Also, Warriors are playing McCaw by the way.

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They arent just playing McCaw, he's starting in playoff games. On other hand....Pop... :depressed

Proof that "seasoning" overrated when your team lacks the talent to begin with. Spurs could have used him this season instead of dicking him around due to Pops rookie treatment method.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Honestly, I'd give him all of simmons minutes and about 5 minutes of Manu. He can't possibly be any worse. We've seen what he can do as an offball player.

I don't want to see Leonard or Parker driving to the rim..swings the ball only for Simmons, Ginobilo and specially Anderson reset the offense. It's so maddening.

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It really is. It's beyond frustrating.

Can't believe how far Manu has fallen in just a few months.

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Originally Posted by LaMarcus Bryant

It's very possible Memphis' excellent defense would destroy him. His game needs work.
He got hurt at the most horrible time.

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Thats very possible, but even then his defense is superior to Manu, Mills, and Parker's.... and none of them are bringing it on the offensive end save Parker tonight.

I wouldn't expect him to be balling out but what he brings could open on the Spurs offense and his defense could be enough to save 7-8 points a game.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Honestly, I'd give him all of simmons minutes and about 5 minutes of Manu. He can't possibly be any worse. We've seen what he can do as an offball player.

I don't want to see Leonard or Parker driving to the rim..swings the ball only for Simmons, Ginobilo and specially Anderson reset the offense. It's so maddening.

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Shit almost ALWAYS happens with Parker and Green after Kawhi drives it in... neither Parker nor Green can penetrate well enough to keep a defense rotating. I think it's a huge reason why our offense is so damn stagnant.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

It really is. It's beyond frustrating.

Can't believe how far Manu has fallen in just a few months.

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I was hoping we finish the series in 4 or 5 and give manu some needed rest, but now that this series is at least in 6..He won't have that needed juice.

It's also the reason why i want Murray and Bertans to play. Both these guys have very litte hesitation to their game. Simmons and Anderson...Plays like a freaking rookie.

Bertans will shoot even if he was slighlty open. He can't possibly be worse than Anderson. Murray can't possibly be worse than Simmons amd Manu...plus, you just know he's either going to drive strong..dont care if he miss or he's going to shot.

Our Role players don't appreciate how Hard it is to create even he slightest open space in this new Offensive structure.

Just throw Ginobili a Loyalty 8-10mpg bone....

The rest give it to Murray or Move Leonard to SG and play Bertans at the 3.

You're telling me, you're worried James Ennis and Vince Fucking Carter will beat Bertans in the dribble :lol

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

Just throw Ginobili a Loyalty 8-10mpg bone....

The rest give it to Murray or Move Leonard to SG and play Bertans at the 3.

You're telling me, you're worried James Ennis and Vince Fucking Carter will beat Bertans in the dribble :lol

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Put Pau back in SL to guard his brother
Murray first guard off bench
Keep Green or Kawhi on Conley all game
Play the ded-lee duo off bench
Spot Bertans some minutes when Mem starts clogging the paint
Profit

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

I was hoping we finish the series in 4 or 5 and give manu some needed rest, but now that this series is at least in 6..He won't have that needed juice.

It's also the reason why i want Murray and Bertans to play. Both these guys have very litte hesitation to their game. Simmons and Anderson...Plays like a freaking rookie.

Bertans will shoot even if he was slighlty open. He can't possibly be worse than Anderson. Murray can't possibly be worse than Simmons amd Manu...plus, you just know he's either going to drive strong..dont care if he miss or he's going to shot.

Our Role players don't appreciate how Hard it is to create even he slightest open space in this new Offensive structure.

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I agree.

Having guys that are decisive and confident with their shot or able to get past their man off the dribble penetration off hard close outs, helps make ball movement valuable -- since weakside D has to help off penetration from those closeouts. Ball movement isn't nearly as valuable if penetration gets stonewalled more often than not. And Anderson, Simmons, Manu, Green all get stonewalled every opportunity. Parker and Mills get stonewalled more often than not as well. Those wings, not able to gain separation or get past their man hurts the offense significantly because the only pass that is available, is to a guarded player ( since the weakside D doesn't have to move). It's basically like resetting the offense, and as the clock ticks -- more desperate end of clock situations are created -- and that's when the grenades are launched from Patty, Parker, Green, Manu, Anderson, Simmons.

Also, "getting past their man " action or inducing the weakside D to move alot ... doesn't have to be sheer penetration from perimeter, it can be from an efficient/aware roller in PnR who can make plays in 4 on 3 scenarios when the D hedges/doubles the PnR. It's about creating pressure at the rim. Aldridge is terrible at it.

They can't bend the D the same w/ the personnel Pop is living and dying with.

But if you replace Anderson/Simmons/Manu with Bertans/Murray.. Spurs are better offensively and defensively they shouldn't lose much. It would make the weakside move more and with Bertans at the wing, it would allow Kawhi, TP or DeJounte more room to operate.

Anderson attacked closeouts very well the last game. he was actually 2 of 2 on two swings from Kiwi with shots in the paint and another time he drew fouls... he then shot a 3 in the 3rd Q
Ppl are overreacting bc he was passed the ball by a passive as fuck Manu when he was in a corner covered, and on top of that with a set defense with a man in the paint (I think it was Lee)... he's obviously not going to shoot if he's covered and the drive wasn't there, he passed it to Manu and cut and Manu passed the ball the fuck back in errant fashion which Kyle recovered for a desperation heave. the rest of his minutes the offense ran trhough LAMARCUS who TO the ball twice I think.

It wasn't a good game by Kyle but the 5 minutes he was there weren't with Kawhi... they were with an assortment of guys that didn't do well for that moment. I wouldn't excuse him bc it just wasn't a good game by him, but he had so far been playing well.

Anyways... doesn't matter for this point bc I do like Dijon a lot and do wish he was playing ...

this series feels doomed anyways bc I think if Pop doesn't bench Manu he's not ready to win a game.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Anderson attacked closeouts very well the last game. he was actually 2 of 2 on two swings from Kiwi with shots in the paint and another time he drew fouls... he then shot a 3 in the 3rd Q
Ppl are overreacting bc he was passed the ball by a passive as fuck Manu when he was in a corner covered, and on top of that with a set defense with a man in the paint (I think it was Lee)... he's obviously not going to shoot if he's covered and the drive wasn't there, he passed it to Manu and cut and Manu passed the ball the fuck back in errant fashion which Kyle recovered for a desperation heave. the rest of his minutes the offense ran trhough LAMARCUS who TO the ball twice I think.

It wasn't a good game by Kyle but the 5 minutes he was there weren't with Kawhi... they were with an assortment of guys that didn't do well for that moment. I wouldn't excuse him bc it just wasn't a good game by him, but he had so far been playing well.

Anyways... doesn't matter for this point bc I do like Dijon a lot and do wish he was playing ...

this series feels doomed anyways bc I think if Pop doesn't bench Manu he's not ready to win a game.

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Kyle had a good game 3. However, in the long run, or most of the time, over the past 3 years, Kyle has not been good off close outs. He gets stonewalled more often than not when he does his hesitation bullshit.

More often than not when he's stonewalled, he catches himself caught between reaching over his man to get off a short fadeaway leaning back or he passes the ball back out to someone to reset.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Kyle had a good game 3. However, in the long run, or most of the time, over the past 3 years, Kyle has not been good off close outs. He gets stonewalled more often than not when he does his hesitation bullshit.

More often than not when he's stonewalled, he catches himself caught between reaching over his man to get off a short fadeaway leaning back or he passes the ball back out to someone to reset.

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Ok I will give you what he did in the past... he has not been the most decisive player ever... but he's played better lately.. much better than he had. He was put in a very bad situation by Manu passing up the ball when he got it off another action and he was the man open. He didn't have many options in that situation if you recall.

Anyways, I'd rather anyone get Manu's minutes at this point. He's really hurting the team with his own insecurity and passiveness.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Ok I will give you what he did in the past... he has not been the most decisive player ever... but he's played better lately.. much better than he had. He was put in a very bad situation by Manu passing up the ball when he got it off another action and he was the man open. He didn't have many options in that situation if you recall.

Anyways, I'd rather anyone get Manu's minutes at this point. He's really hurting the team with his own insecurity and passiveness.

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I don't see it consistently enough from him. Even lately. Just my 2 cents.

But yes, I think Manu needs to sit. And I'm a huge Manu fan. He's not just throwing up bricks, but he's getting lost defensively. He lost his man at least 3 times tonight wide open for 3.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

I don't see it consistently enough from him. Even lately. Just my 2 cents.

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Fair enough.
I disagree. I think he's improved confidence wise. I wish him the best if he plays and respect a different opinion.

Bad news is, Murray probably spends next year on the bench again so Parker can have a farewell tour.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

But yes, I think Manu needs to sit. And I'm a huge Manu fan. He's not just throwing up bricks, but he's getting lost defensively. He lost his man at least 3 times tonight wide open for 3.

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As a different line in this conversation and since you have followed the Spurs for a long time... do you see Pop benching Manu?

I don't know what to tell you. I think this is unprecendented. He's cut Tony's minutes lately and gone with Patty to close games in the regular season... I think he got Simmons as many reps as he could precisely for a situation of this nature.. not that I think anyone expected Manu to fall off this quickly and suddenly, or steeply.. but his inability to get to the rim in the postseason was predictable. Anyways, I am unsure if Pop will really take that step to go away from Manu. Simmons is a much inferior player to good Manu, but good Manu is not around. Washed up TOSB Manu is the one you have instead. I really don't think Spurs can win a game against a determined Memphis team with this Manu, not trolling, or hating or anything of that nature.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

As a different line in this conversation and since you have followed the Spurs for a long time... do you see Pop benching Manu?

I don't know what to tell you. I think this is unprecendented. He's cut Tony's minutes lately and gone with Patty to close games in the regular season... I think he got Simmons as many reps as he could precisely for a situation of this nature.. not that I think anyone expected Manu to fall off this quickly and suddenly, or steeply.. but his inability to get to the rim in the postseason was predictable. Anyways, I am unsure if Pop will really take that step. Simmons is a much inferior player to good Manu, but good Manu is not around. Washed up TOSB Manu is the one you have instead. I really don't think Spurs can win a game against a determined Memphis team with this Manu, not trolling, or hating or anything of that nature.

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Knowing Pop, He'll ride out in the 2nd round at best with the guys he loves the most. How they play is irrelevant. He'll say, " well we are who we are ". " We aren't changing things that have worked all year". Manu won't be sitting, either will TP.

Bertans and Murray will have to wait til next year.

I called it months ago. Spurs won't get past Rockets in the 2nd round, if they can get past this one that is..

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Originally Posted by objective

Bad news is, Murray probably spends next year on the bench again so Parker can have a farewell tour.

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They really shouldn't... Mills is up for a contract and despite his flaws he's getting paid. Simmons is a RFA and in reality and in all honesty Manu needs to retire. No matter what Spurs need to reconsider their guard situation.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

They arent just playing McCaw, he's starting in playoff games. On other hand....Pop... :depressed

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Thats because kerr is actually a good coach.

Pop is an arrogant, untouchable stubborn douchebag for whom playing to win and playing the players with the right skillset is secondary to whatever little 'moral point' hes trying to make in his own mind