He's a better version of Captan Jax.
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He's a better version of Captan Jax.
please lets not overrate this dude
Yeah, I'd say let him walk if he wants a big pay day tbh... Can't overrate a guy based on a few games...let other teams overpay for him tbh... :wakeupQuote:
Originally Posted by testies
Sign and tradeQuote:
Originally Posted by Play Boban
gary neal has had bigger performances than simmons
and he didnt need the ball in his hands for 15 seconds every play
There are a dozen Simmons out there.
Spurs need 3pt shooters.
No, we need shot creators. The inability of Manu and TP to do that in recent years has meant fewer good looks for our shooters. Id say it's the other ways around:Quote:
Originally Posted by spurs1990
there are more shooters out there and true creators.
We need a drive and dish player to fill for Manu. Creators are much harder to find
who are they and where can you find them?Quote:
Originally Posted by spurs1990
Spurs shooters are not lacking good looks. They are streaky and unreliable and miss open shots. And for several years they have gone AWOL at the worst times. I don't know what Danny and Patty are shooting this series, but I bet it is below 33%.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGD
Said this like 10 ten times to my friend. We can no longer afford the luxury of players like Mills and Green. We need people that can get to the rim and play make. I know it sounds corny but we need players with that heart and mentality of a champion.
he's going to get a bigass payday and he's earned it, but he's going to be overpaid and the spurs shouldn't match ala boban
THE BEST PLAYER FOR THE SPURS IS ALMOST 40 YEARS OLD MANU WAS THE MAN AMONG BOYS ON HIS TEAM.
Name the dozen. The ones that have the atheleisism of Simmons and the seeming ability to play a reasonably facsimile of lock down defense. The Spurs need a player like Simmons. There aren't a dozen of them that can be acquired for that price.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurs1990
What price are we talking about......cheap price keep but no way in hell do I break the bank on a few games wonder.
Simmons is in his late 20s and relies on athleticism on the offensive end. Not a good passer and not a good shooter (but not horrible either). He's played his balls out on the offensive end and has been good defensively including key defensive stands against Harden. He's worth keeping, but at a sane price.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGD
Tyreke Evans, Bradley, Smart, Wade, KCP, Eric Gordon, Lavene, Joseph, Powell, Hood, Rivers on top of my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursforSix
Paying Simmons 10M/year would be a huge mistake. If they could get him for cheap, then I'm all for it.
Tyrese, Bradley, Smart, Wade, Gordon, LaVine, Powell, and Hood will all likely come at similar if not higher prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbdog
Not only these, but Bradley isn't a FA (need to trade for him), Gordon isn't a FA, etc. who are you trading for these guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by TimDunkem
Rather keep Simmons. Defense alone shows he's way more valuable than a Gary Neal or Bojan that other teams overpaid. If only he had a reliable shot but if he did, it'd make him even more expensive.
Important for people to remember this too:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q45
Simmons' offer sheet would look a lot like what he Knicks didn't match with Lin years ago. First two years would be just above the MLE which means cap flexibility in 2018 with Simmons. Could be a huge jump in two years assuming the offering team blows their load.
If the Nets were to offer 4/$50 or something, the deal would be something like $8.4 / $8.8 for the first two years with the last two years being $32.8 total ($16.1 and $16.7). For the Nets I believe it'd be $12.5 flat annually. If the Spurs were to match, I believe they'd lose their MLE but someone please chime in if that's not the case.
Let's not forget that RFA offers have become less frequent if there's a thought a team may match.
We need that 17 year old from real masrid
I would say that they are all much better too or have higher upside. Tyreke should come cheap btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimDunkem
Best or second best defender on the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
Clowns on here (you know who) tried to credit Green last series for Harden being shut down. It was Juice, Juice, and Juice.
Only SG worth a shit on this team
I think of it this way: if Simmons were on another team, would I be like "oh shit, here comes Simmons, Spurs are screwed." Or would I be like "Eh, whatever."
I'm thinking the latter would be true.
You could literally say that about any player on the Spurs roster sans Kawhi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepin' it real
Begs the question. Why didn't he defend Durant more. Try to keep DG on Curry and Simmons on Durant and try to contain the other guys. Match their minutes. It's worked before in 2013 with DG on Curry and Kawhi on Thompson.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursistan
If Green is on Curry, then Curry will go off. Sums up that fraud's season. Can't get bailed out by Kawhi in the 4th quarter anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by therealtruth
Until the Wcf, I thought there'd be more demand for Patty on the market than Simmons, but it wouldn't surprise me if Jonathon gets a bigger contract now.
no wayQuote:
Originally Posted by spurs1990
ps: Hoping they'll bring Hanga this year (Simmons, Green, Hanga and Kawhi would be a good group of athletic wings, maybe add one more)
Personally, I think that is a lock. Patty has been in the league long enough to show he is what he is and nothing more. Backup energy guy that sometimes hits shots. I think the time with the Spurs has helped Simmons BB IQ and defensive skills. He can create and is athletic. A starter on a decent team.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
That play last night where he went up on the drive, faked finishing left, changed and finished right while hanging was pretty.
Danny "I'm going to let Kawhi guard Harden" Green at the end of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
I thought Hanga is a scrub. I haven't heard about him improving much. I'm not really interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
You thought wrong regarding Hanga.
Players like Simmons are not common. He's a positive on both offense and defense. Make him the priority. Not Mills, Not Dedmon.
Anywhere form 8-12 mil per is fair for 3 yrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Yeah, but your basing that off oneQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
post-season run?
He was awful in large part of the RS this year..at least defensivley.
I'd keep him if he doesn't demand over 10
I agree. Sa needs a slasher, but murray is here. Unfortunately simmons looked like crap attacking last night. Simmons or mills its simmons hands downQuote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
He got better. The guy spent 6 hours a day, 6 days a week in the gym this summer. He's had it this year, Pop was just playing musical chairs too much with him and Kyle. I said it during the season that Pop should stop it and just give all the minutes to Simmons because he had the higher ceiling -- which was true. I'd pay him 8-11 million per for 3 years only. If he insists on 13-15 mil per, I let him walk.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
I thought he was solid all year defensively by the way. On the top of my head, I think he also committed the most charges on the team even in his limited role -- which says a lot.
The most consistent aspect of his game this season was his defense. No idea where you got the idea he was awful defensively.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
8-11 is fair. I think Murray takes the ball of simmons hands next year. He's just a bigger drive threat. Right now, murray plays as the secondary ball handler with Simmons in the floor. Minus kawhi ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
He was pretty spotty this year, imo. Some bad stretches defensivrly too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robz4000
I was impressed by his defense since the first game of the season tbh. His offense, on the other hand, was extremely spotty; his shot has been extremely bipolar since he got here. If he's willing to settle for $8-10mil a year I'd definitely want the Spurs to bring him back.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Simmons is a decent on-ball defender..His issue is off-ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robz4000
His offense struggles when the spurs start their lamarcus Aldridge four down offense.
He needs an offense where the ball is swinging in the perimter so he can attack in space.
Spurs need to put an end to 4 down tbh.. Should have retired the damn play and put it in the rafters when Duncan retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Tim Duncan will never be walking through that door again. Play is pointless with anyone else besides prime TD or Hakeem.
He's been fine. He got chances all season too. He was averaging 20 minutes for the vast majority of the RS and Kyle only started to get minutes when Simmons started fading on his own. Then the last month, Pop started resting players and giving more minutes to everyone once seeding was fixed. Simmons still got a ton during that stretch. Started quite a few games too.
If you think Simmons didn't get chances through the season you are deluding yourself....
But that's irrelevant bc he's put it together in the playoffs and he might not have done that anyways unless the circumstances became what they were and he was pushed beyond what he had been doing. That's what matters.
He was pushed in the playoffs and he either rose up like he did or failed to do that like LMA did for example. The fact he's improved under pressure has value. One hopes once he found this level he will be able to sustain it. It's not unrealistic to hope he can. Things like this are precisely when you see a player out it together and grow. Sometimes it's like this. It's why players say they want to compete against the best players. That's how they get better.
By the way Kyle this postseason has been much better than the last one even when he was the guy not getting g rotation minutes nor a fair shake from Pop in terms of an established role or spot in which to grow.
As for Simmons, I expect him back unless some team pays him starter money and role. Spurs could match anything theoretically but they have to wonder what makes sense for them to match or no. And truly it's a wild guess. However unless Spurs land a star in FA through dumping some contracts around etc reupping Simmons is likely the best they can do.
I want to keep Simmons but we have to be weary of hooking him up with a contract and him getting Malik Rose syndrome...
I agree completely. You can draft Bell if you want a Dedmon like player. Patty is more of the dime a dozen than Simmons tbh. Forbes could do what Mills has done with less handles but he can shoot and play the guard next to Simmons.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
The more and more I think about it, i'm starting to lean on keeping Gasol and Aldridge and maybe bringing Anderson in the starting lineup at four with someone as insurance. Maybe a rookie... But you let Dedmon and Patty go for reals and make Simmons a priority. He's always shown flashes of being capable of the Manu role but has struggled with the consistency. This may be his coming out party. For a guy like him performing on this stage against the best team in the league, I don't know how you go down from there and with players like Aldridge and Leonard spacing the floor it will only get easier with his shots. imo
Manu was hurting Simmons all year. Juice needs the ball in his hands and he obviously wasn't getting it with Manu and Mills running their terrible offense. Simmons was just a bystander until recently when Manu realized he was done and let others handle the ball. Also not surprising he's shining with the starters, no Manu in sight.
The Cory Joseph syndrome. Good starter, terrible fit with Ginobili.
good post hereQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
this is who i thought would be the greatest threat to signing Simmons.
Zaza fucked us pretty good. Robs us of a ring and makes us overpay for Simmons.
Simmons lacks a consistent 3 point shot. And even his midrange looks rather ugly at times. I wouldn't mind keeping him; but I feel like the hype machine is in full swing. Disney Network needs to sell something with no Kawhi.
lacks a consistent three yet shooting better than Danny tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
We know Danny's a streaky shooter and a great defender. Have to take the good with the bad. If Simmons were as good a defender, that would be one thing. Maybe he has the potential to be. He and Bertans often look lost on rotations. That should come with experience, one would hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurtacular
He played for their d league team before he went to the toros. Didn't see anything in him then but now they want him?Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
Well they need help in the worst way. They'd be wise not to max him but you never know. His max is limited btw like 5-8 mil the first 2 years and then it can balloon to like 20 for 2 years basically. It's the Arenas rule what have you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bic50
If i'm the Spurs I'd give him the first two years 5-8 mill then raise it to like 10 mil for one or two years.
I know Marks' primary concern should be the Nets obviously, but let's be real: he wouldn't have that job if not for his Spurs affiliation. Even though Simmons and possibly Dedmon are the types of players I could see them targeting, if it doesn't move the needle and hurts the Spurs, then it shouldn't be worth it to him.
Simmons isn't even a small forward. Sure, he can play some, but not full time. I know they moved Hollis-Jefferson to power forward, but they should move him back to his natural small forward and target a stretch four instead.
Right, but team offering him a contract needs to have cap space equal to the average annual value. I need to go team by team to figure out where the risks are / add in rookie holds which can be quite large. And wouldn't take into account any maneuvering to get further under the cap. But:Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
- Midlevel will be about $8mm. Assume cap around $101mm
- Teams with max cap space (not saying he'd get max, but remember there are max FAs out there that could take up space instead of Simmons) in order of risk:
- Philly is biggest risk. Henderson's deal is non-guaranteed and they could have $55mm of cap space even taking into account the third pick
- Brooklyn will have $30-$35mm or so and is a risk to sign Simmons. I'd look for them, though, to possibly try to pick up assets in the draft by taking on bad contracts. The Lakers should bang on their door and offer the HOU pick to dump Mozgov or Deng. Still, he'd be a nice player for them and a risk.
- Sacramento has just under $30mm of space but could have $45mm as Afflalo and Toliver aren't guaranteed. Possibly even more if Gay opts out. If they think he can play next to Hield, they could go hard after him.
- Phoenix will have around max space assuming they give a qualifying offer to Len and could let go of Barbosa. No way in hell would they add Simmons to Bledsoe/Knight
- Minnesota could add to cap space if able to get Pekovic's contract off books as he remains injured. With LaVine out most of next year, Simmons could be an interesting fit. Like a lot of these other teams, they need shooting badly though.
- Boston (assuming guys are renounced and Zeller non-guaranteed) could have $35mm but has a packed roster so will be looking to add max guys or bust. Doubt they look at Simmons.
- GS technically has the second lowest active salaries for next year but obviously will be maneuvering around Durant/Curry extensions. Will need every penny and probably only have room exception.
- Close to max cap space:
- NY will have about $20mm but potentially a ton more if Melo is moved. Could offer Simmons a massive deal but can he run the triangle?
- Denver likely gets rid of Mike Miller's salary and will have over $20mm of cap room. Another team with too many middling players without any standouts other than Jokic. One of most intriguing teams to see what they do with their cap space. Gallo is opting out for a longer term deal most likely.
- Orlando could push $20mm of cap room by renouncing Meeks/Jeff Green and taking a $1mm buyout of CJ Watson. Going after Simmons would totally depend on if they see Hezonja and Ross in future plans. Don't remember Simmons name on their whiteboard though.
- LAL will have $15mm or so but could add to that by dumping Tarik Black. Crowded backcourt with Russell, Clarkson and 2nd pick. Probably will try to add shooting (a Redick type)
- Chicago probably keeps Rondo instead of a $3mm buyout so will be in the sub-$20mm range. Not sure Simmons fits here. What a weird roster. They need a PG badly.
Barely above MLE:
- Houston can play just above the MLE but not sure Simmons fits Moreyball. Pretty sure Spurs match whatever they'd offer him as it won't be through the roof.
Depends on free agents:
- Atlanta - Millsap probably opts out so they'll have plenty of cap room if he signs elsewhere and others are renounced. If he resigns, then they won't have any. He'd be a solid fit on a team lacking much in the way of wings/guards beyond Bazemore and Schroeder.
- Utah - Hayward will opt out. Similar situation to Atlanta.
- Toronto could have $20mm of cap space if Lowry, Ibaka and Tucker all walk. Doubt they all walk though and probably pushes them closer to the cap - not likely to pursue Simmons at all
- New Orleans will have about $10mm if Jrue signs elsewhere
Others:
- Indiana will give qualifying offer to Teague so won't have much cap room. Stranger things have happened though and they could let him walk if someone offers an insane deal.
- Everyone else has no cap space or below the MLE.
So what kind of player is he? I've heard nothing about him. Basically, my expectations of him are at LJC levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by BackHome
It was mostly fouling too much early on and not getting around screens. He showed flashes on defense early in the year but got better and better as the season has gone on.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
As for his offense, the major problem I had with him was him passing up wide open shots. I can't believe he's now taking those shots towards the end of the season and the playoffs. He's showing real mental toughness. Instead of driving into the defense trying to force it, he's now taking the open shots, or driving in a little bit and taking a midrange jumpshot.
It seems he's constantly worked on his game. Maybe when he fell out of the rotation towards the end of the season he worked on these things. I think he spent time working on his shot and also incorporating a midrange jumpshot. I'm now OK with him on offense, still got improvements he can make, but he's getting there. He's taking the shots that are there and shooting with confidence. If he makes or misses, I'm OK with that as long as he's not breaking the offense and shooting the ball with confidence when he does take a shot. That's what I look for in a shooter.
check his page on the think tank. he was euroleague defender of the year and he's on the spanish all league team. He really sprouted this last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
Wow. I didn't really look at him at all the past year. Wasn't he doing poorly a couple of years ago? So it's the past year where he's improved a lot?Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
yup. we thought his time had passed but he has slowly been working his way up in Europe. He plays for a very good Baskonia team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
Basically he's a good athlete and an elite defender in Europe. He had already had a good season last year too. Was 3rd for defensive player and won it this season. He's a 30% 3 pt shooter in Europe though and this team already lacks in shooting. I actually thought he was a good candidate to just substitute the minutes from regular season Simmons whose impact was mostly defensive bc he also shot just below 30% from 3 and passes up shots as we all know. Offensively he's not like this Simmons from the playoffs if he can sustain that and they are the same age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
I think they max out KCP at 12:01, Simmons would likely be way down their list.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
just time to see how mature the league really is. He has no business getting maxed. A value get for him would be the about 6 mill the first two years,(most he can get) and then like 8 mill partially guaranteed and then like a raise for a team option that's non guaranteed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
Such a contract is impossible. Also, his first year max is the MLE value.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
Edit: Wait, are you talking about KCP?
His contract can balloon to like 20 mill or something in years 3 and 4. I don't remember exact numbers but he falls into the Arenas rule or whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
Anyways clarification would be nice.
Year 1 : up to MLEQuote:
Originally Posted by raybies
Year 2 : MLE +/- 4.5%
Year 3 : 3rd year $ up to the max
Year 4 : Year 3 +/- 4.1%
Edit : This is the structure only if he signs an offer sheet and the Spurs match it. Not sure but the new CBA might have included the option for the matching team to make the cap hit flat throughout the contract.
I wouldn't give Simmons 4m a year. Those guys are a dime a dozen in the D-league. He looked good against Houston, a run a shoot team. He's not bad, but he's not worth holding on to. I hope he gets paid though, just not here. I remember all the James Anderson love as well. You guys need to recognize a scrub when you see one.
God damn. What a garbage take lmaoooooooooQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
In his current form he's not a scrub... the question is whether he can maintain that or this is a one hit wonder. Plenty of guys get hot in the playoffs but can't maintain that through the season. He's very streaky. Anyways due to that he shouldn't get overpriced. There's risk. But as a roleplayer in a moderate contract he would be fine.
lots of high minute guys can get decent results. lets see how he does with bench minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
He's streaky as far as his outside shot goes. But he always seems to give good effort on D. And always ready to take it to the rim.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
Pretty damn good sub that can play SG or SF.
Yes but an energy guy who is solid defensively is what you can get from Hanga at a fraction of the price. It's what he's been doing offensively that raises his price so he would need to maintain consistency in that area to be worth a large contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursforSix
I think Pops track record speaks for itself. I think Stephen Jackson is a good example. If he isn't willing to sacrifice to be on the team and doesn't want a reasonable contract you let him walk. It's only right for both sides involved. I think a 3 year 24 mill contract sounds about right for an outstanding postseason yet a decent season. If he gets the max or big offer you tell him to go like we did to Boban. It really is best for his family long term. Love his heart, passion, and fearlessness but you don't break the bank for him. As much as some of us give Danny flak, he took the cut to be with us. You hope Simmons can do the same but you don't blame him if he doesn't. I think there's some sentimental value here but... you never know.
Despite what his detractors asserted last summer, Simmons is proving that he has not reached his ceiling (although he may be getting near). His defense has become much more fundamentally sound, and his touch/stupid fouls have continuously declined throughout the season. And he is becoming more confident in his three-ball, taking (and making) it with much more consistency. Simmons is already much more than a role player. He has been starting for the SPURS with good results. If not a starter, he is becoming a very fine 6th man.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
I agree with the first part of your comment. Can Simmons play ay this playoff level on a consistent basis? But he is more than a role player. He is clearly a rotation player if not starter caliber. He is probably as good a sixth man as most of the teams in the league have.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
I suspect that we keep him. His cap hold, (his qualifying offer), is something like $1.5 Million. We are not getting a better player for that kind of money, so his qualifying offer will be made. Then we can match just about anything he gets on the FA market due to the Arenas rule. We will only lose him if we think the offer he ends up with is much too generous for his value as a player...
I was mostly replying to DMC who said he's a scrub. In this current form he's not. (I didn't think he was that b4 either, but guys subjective definition of scrub is up to them. I am not going to argue that).Quote:
Originally Posted by sasaint
Simmons in a role player role looked horrible the past 2 years, tbh..he is completely wasted when the ball isn't his hands, his offense is reliant on high usage, it isn't a coincidence that most of his memorable games were all without one of Parker, Kawhi and Ginobili..Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
If the Spurs choose to pay him big money, he will have to be the 6th man, it's the only way to maximize his potential and justify a big contract..he will never succeed as a role player, as we have seen the past 2 years..hopefully it means Manu is retiring(I want him to return, but it doesn't make sense if you're committing to Simmons)..
Yes. This is it basically. I also think he has proven more valuable than mills... although to venture into speculation about what Spurs will do in the offseason is really a guess. They could stand pat (successful season and got to the WCF) or maybe they decide to make a run for some FA.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
Yes. I agree with this take. I have thought Manu retires for most of the season, although now that we come to the conclusion of the season I am unsure. But it doesn't make sense for Manu to come back at 40 to play off the ball exclusively. Dijon should also get usage up and ballhandling duties next season if we are honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Can anyone explain/summarize in layman's terms? Arenas Rule, MLE, etc? I can't tell if Simmons will be tough to re-sign or not, assuming Pop + RC value him highly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
HereQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave_ET
Thx. Only part to please clarify: "Year 3 : 3rd year $ up to the max" - a max contract?Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
yup. Wouldnt be like 35 mill or anything like that but like 20 something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_ET
and that could either be the worst year (salary wise) of a very bad contract or the year that simmons earns his pay. assuming he received such an offer, that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by raybies
Simmons coming back down to Earth
Ive got the feeling, because of his athleticism and performance in the playoffs, someone is going to throw stupid coin at him, which wouldn't be smart to match given the sample size. Problem is we need someone outside of Mills to handle the ball off the bench. Someone threw $16/year at Mozov for one playoff performance...
I would rather pay Hanga cheap money can get the same result at a lot lower cost.
Simmons would be a player we would want on out team if he were a free agent this summer...Dude is good on offense and defense...The only reason he looked inconsistent is that he wasn't given consistent pt from pop...He would go several games playing, then several games out of the lineup...He didnt know if he was gonna play night by night...They aren't robots...That messes with a player's timing...It also causes them to play tight because they dont know if they'll get benched for missing/taking a shot,
He is so over valued by a lot of fans just because he is an exciting player. Would be nice to keep him as 9th or 10th roster guy but wouldn't be upset if he got paid elsewhere.
The player you are describing is Anderson. Simmons played nightly. Only games he missed was bc he injured a wrist. He was averaging 20 minutes etc.
He was inconsistent a lot because he needed the ball in his hands more and imo he wasn't ready. These playoffs in these circumstances were the best thing that could happen to him.
Faggot Joe being a faggot, per par. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Have you read your take, fat hands? :lol Simmons showed up after that against the Warriors. You said he's a 4M player, Spurs offered 9M.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
At least read you disgusting obese fuck.