Kid Rock confirms Michigan Senate run

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Originally Posted by Adam Lambert

oh man, i pity your sex life. must suck to have to pick one hole and stick to it forever.

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My sex life involves an actual woman. It's got pluses and minuses.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Poor Paula. You would think after 50 years of the govt waging a war on poverty she'd have an easier go of it. Maybe the policies you support don't work like you think they do.

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betsy devos will fix all of it with vouchers

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Poor Paula. You would think after 50 years of the govt waging a war on poverty she'd have an easier go of it. Maybe the policies you support don't work like you think they do.

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Maybe they work well enough to keep her alive, when she otherwise wouldn't be.

Maybe the policies you support make us all poorer than we need to be.

Maybe the policies you support will cause far more human misery than you are really comfortable with.

Want to go the vy65 "fuck 'em, let 'em starve route"?

Eastern European governments tend to have little money for the social programs you despise. I can show you how that works out for Romanian orphans abandoned by their parents. You wouldn't like it, and it wouldn't help with a constructive conversation.

How exactly should we reduce human misery and suffering? Give me a solution you prefer.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

How exactly should we reduce human misery and suffering? Give me a solution you prefer.

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tell paula to stop whining and study harder tbh

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Maybe they work well enough to keep her alive, when she otherwise wouldn't be.

Maybe the policies you support make us all poorer than we need to be.

Maybe the policies you support will cause far more human misery than you are really comfortable with.

Want to go the vy65 "fuck 'em, let 'em starve route"?

Eastern European governments tend to have little money for the social programs you despise. I can show you how that works out for Romanian orphans abandoned by their parents. You wouldn't like it, and it wouldn't help with a constructive conversation.

How exactly should we reduce human misery and suffering? Give me a solution you prefer.

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How bout you answer my question first

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Are you pocketing your Bush tax cut or are you sending it back to the IRS for the good of society?

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Poor Paula. You would think after 50 years of the govt waging a war on poverty she'd have an easier go of it. Maybe the policies you support don't work like you think they do.

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BTW:

This is a really badly flawed argument. It is a deepism passed around as wisdom on the right.

"We've been repairing this bridge for 50 years, maybe we should stop"

"We've been researching cancer for 50 years, maybe that isn't working out".

It is flawed, because it is a problem that is worth addressing, and the evidence that actually is available shows that the social programs you don't like, actually pretty much do the things they were designed to do, i.e. make life less hellish, and provide a net to catch people so they can pick themselves back up.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Are you pocketing your Bush tax cut or are you sending it back to the IRS for the good of society?

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Poor people spend it.

Good for economy.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

How bout you answer my question first

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Keeping it for the most part, as I was investing in my, and my wife's ability to earn money.

At this point though, I have put some of the family budget into some charity. Had some good discussions with my kids about how to allocate that, since the money we give out ultimately is money they don't directly benefit from.

My 11 year old, and his older brother understands and supports our decisions. I have spent a good deal of time teaching him and his brother how to arrive at a workable moral system that includes caring for others.

Do you know your question in and of itself implies further flawed arguments?

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Originally Posted by Pavlov

Poor people spend it.

Good for economy.

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Velocity of money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money

Marginal propensity to consume:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin...ity_to_consume


The economy is better off as whole, when poor people have more money. This is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Adam Lambert

thats not the dems, dmc, thats the constitution. take it up with our founding fathers if you dont like separation of church and state.

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LOL, whatever you say, Kool. You didn't answer the question and changed the subject. And you've the audacity to condescend to others for doing the same? Oh, wait...that LOLeftist double standards thing..., the ole "we can. you can't...because that's how I think I'm winning debates."


Seen this trick like fiddy times from y'all today. Learn new tricks.

I think we can all agree that generally reducing human misery is a good thing.

The only thing that we quibble about here is how to go about that.

Can we at least agree that reducing human misery is a worthwhile goal?

If Rand Paul endorses Kid Rock, this will be the GOP's 60th seat in the senate in 2018.

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Originally Posted by Chucho

LOL, whatever you say, Kool. You didn't answer the question and changed the subject. And you've the audacity to condescend to others for doing the same? Oh, wait...that LOLeftist double standards thing..., the ole "we can. you can't...because that's how I think I'm winning debates."


Seen this trick like fiddy times from y'all today. Learn new tricks.

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i didnt change the subject, dmc, i pointed out the difference between making buttfucking illegal and making discrimination illegal. the difference is the us constitution. deal with it, comrade.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Keeping it for the most part, as I was investing in my, and my wife's ability to earn money.

At this point though, I have put some of the family budget into some charity. Had some good discussions with my kids about how to allocate that, since the money we give out ultimately is money they don't directly benefit from.

My 11 year old, and his older brother understands and supports our decisions. I have spent a good deal of time teaching him and his brother how to arrive at a workable moral system that includes caring for others.

Do you know your question in and of itself implies further flawed arguments?

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It's not flawed to say that you have no problem keeping your tax cut and supporting a candidate who was promising you further tax cuts while pledging to stick it to "others". So your stance that I have have a moral obligation to pay more and more while you want to pay less and less doesn't sound all that moral to me.

If you want to know my general views on taxes you can look here
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201845

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Originally Posted by Adam Lambert

why the fuck would there even have to be anything else anyway? why are republicans still obsessed with what i do in my own home? voyeuristic sickos

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How much anal are you getting a week? My wife lets me maybe 5 times a year.

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Originally Posted by Chucho

What are your charitable contributions this year, thus far, Mother Theresa?

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In a fit of irony, I gave $50 to these guys.
http://abc13.com/news/victoria-islam...osque/2052760/

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Among other things. Rough estimate this year will be a bit less than 1% of family net income. We are concentrating on paying off debts (student loans, a stretch of unemployment, and an uninsured hospitalization years ago).

Our family does things together, through a local atheist organization, though. Wheelchair ramp builds, food giveaways for homeless, picking up trash at an adopted stretch of roads, etc.

Also ironically, we used to work/cook every Sunday night at a local homeless shelter run by a Baptist church, but got too busy for that. I think it was good for our kids to sit down at the table with everybody and eat the same meal. We let others do the praying thing, of course.

I will increase the charity budget next year, as we anticipate having a lot of debt paid off this year, and a marked increase in income is in the offing.

Your point?

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

In a fit of irony, I gave $50 to these guys.
http://abc13.com/news/victoria-islam...osque/2052760/

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I give about $50 a week to the tweakers that pollute the Central Valley. I can't wait to see how Oregon pans out in the next decade or so.

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Originally Posted by Chucho

I give about $50 a week to the tweakers that pollute the Central Valley. I can't wait to see how Oregon pans out in the next decade or so.

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I think we can all agree that generally reducing human misery is a good thing.

The only thing that we quibble about here is how to go about that.

Can we at least agree that reducing human misery is a worthwhile goal?

"all agree that generally reducing human misery is a good thing"

absolutely false, as the Trumpcare and its supporters right here ST love the BigCorp wealth-sucking, suffering, and death Trumpcare would cause.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

I think we can all agree that generally reducing human misery is a good thing.

The only thing that we quibble about here is how to go about that.

Can we at least agree that reducing human misery is a worthwhile goal?

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Depends. If it's misery brought on by themselves, i.e, drug addiction or unwanted babies, I think Americans need to be held accountable for their actions. Not just fear of legal repercussions, but personal-life repercussions as well. If it's misery brought on by circumstances they don't control, absolutely.

Case in point, Oregon, in a decade is going to have both sides of misery. They are going to have self-created misery that was more enabled by the batshit crazy law of decriminalizing smack, toot, molly, et. al. Despite the batshit theory, this is enabling and is going to make a bad issue even worse by eliminating accountability since the fear of consequence has been removed. Now we're fostering a culture of enabling diseased individuals and increasing that population while creating an extremely miserable place that is unsafe to live in because the junkie population will grow and, in conjunction, the burglary and theft related crime rates will sky rocket. I can't feel sorry for anyone who makes the decision to get hooked on dope and drugs, you and only you can be responsible for your own willful actions. I can feel sorry that an entire population was thrown into the toilet for an ill-thought, batshit crazy law. Oregon will be a statewide version of Demo utopias like Chicago, Houston and the 99% of California the elitists don't inhabit.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"all agree that generally reducing human misery is a good thing"

absolutely false, as the Trumpcare and its supporters right here ST love the BigCorp wealth-scuking, suffering, and death Trumpcare would cause.

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Because a sociopathic Nazi idolizer's gross stereotypes are always right. :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by Chucho

Depends. If it's misery brought on by themselves, i.e, drug addiction or unwanted babies, I think Americans need to be held accountable for their actions. Not just fear of legal repercussions, but personal-life repercussions as well. If it's misery brought on by circumstances they don't control, absolutely.

Case in point, Oregon, in a decade is going to have both sides of misery. They are going to have self-created misery that was more enabled by the batshit crazy law of decriminalizing smack, toot, molly, et. al. Despite the batshit theory, this is enabling and is going to make a bad issue even worse by eliminating accountability since the fear of consequence has been removed. Now we're fostering a culture of enabling diseased individuals and increasing that population while creating an extremely miserable place that is unsafe to live in because the junkie population will grow and, in conjunction, the burglary and theft related crime rates will sky rocket. I can't feel sorry for anyone who makes the decision to get hooked on dope and drugs, you and only you can be responsible for your own willful actions. I can feel sorry that an entire population was thrown into the toilet for an ill-thought, batshit crazy law. Oregon will be a statewide version of Demo utopias like Chicago, Houston and the 99% of California the elitists don't inhabit.

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"unwanted babies"

How exactly do you hold someone accountable for that?

Doesn't that punish a child for something their parent did?

(edit)

Is *that* moral?

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Originally Posted by Chucho

Depends. If it's misery brought on by themselves, i.e, drug addiction or unwanted babies, I think Americans need to be held accountable for their actions. Not just fear of legal repercussions, but personal-life repercussions as well. If it's misery brought on by circumstances they don't control, absolutely.

Case in point, Oregon, in a decade is going to have both sides of misery. They are going to have self-created misery that was more enabled by the batshit crazy law of decriminalizing smack, toot, molly, et. al. Despite the batshit theory, this is enabling and is going to make a bad issue even worse by eliminating accountability since the fear of consequence has been removed. Now we're fostering a culture of enabling diseased individuals and increasing that population while creating an extremely miserable place that is unsafe to live in because the junkie population will grow and, in conjunction, the burglary and theft related crime rates will sky rocket. I can't feel sorry for anyone who makes the decision to get hooked on dope and drugs, you and only you can be responsible for your own willful actions. I can feel sorry that an entire population was thrown into the toilet for an ill-thought, batshit crazy law. Oregon will be a statewide version of Demo utopias like Chicago, Houston and the 99% of California the elitists don't inhabit.

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Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10301780.html

They took the money they wasted on making addicts into criminals, and treated it as a public health problem. It seems to be working ok so far.

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'It was the combination of the law and these services that made it a success. It's very difficult to find people in Portugal who disagree with this model.'

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When Portugal decided to decriminalize in 2000, many skeptics assumed that the number of users would skyrocket. That did not happen. With some exceptions, including a marginal increase among adolescents, drug use has fallen over the past 15 years and now ebbs and flows within overall trends in Europe. Portuguese officials estimate that by the late 1990s roughly one percent of Portugal's population, around 100,000 people, were heroin users.

Today, "we estimate that we have 50,000, most of them under substitution treatment," said Goulão before adding that he's recently seen a small uptick in use of the drug, predominantly among former addicts that got clean. This reflects Portugal's tenuous economic condition, he contends.

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Time and again, policies that treat people decently, humanely, work, and provably so.

(Edit)

Link to VICE article:
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin

VICE does some really good shit, BTW. I recommend their reporting. A bit amateurish at times, but they take the time to dig into something.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"all agree that generally reducing human misery is a good thing"

absolutely false, as the Trumpcare and its supporters right here ST love the BigCorp wealth-scuking, suffering, and death Trumpcare would cause.

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You might find Moyers interview with that guy about the deep state interesting as well. Google it.