Pop needs to tighten his rotations

Biggest elephant on the room is Lauvergne. He has been good but there's just no room for him on this Spurs team with the smallball movement. Pau played only 18 minutes today. He already has to come to terms with not finishing games, if he also starts playing less than 20 minutes per game we could see his interest and, as a result, his production plummet. So far, he has been the best player on the team in terms of +/-, it makes no sense to play him so little. It also doesn't make sense to play a 16 mils per year guy just 18 mins per game.

Then we have the Murray/Forbes/Paul situation. There's room only for two of them on the rotation (and that's without Tony and Kawhi). I have been a big Murray supporter but if he doesn't start producing, I would say to give the time to Forbes and Paul. Forbes, specially, seems to be on the verge of deserving an even bigger role (PATFO should have let Mills go, smh).

And then there's Bertans. I don't know how, but Pop needs to find him playing time.

Make sure to tell Pop. I'm sure he'd like hearing your point of view.

The problem is if/when he tightens them it won't be the players it should be playing. Anyone who expects Pop to play Forbes/Bertans over Lauvergne/Mills is fooling themselves.

I would kill for having the Spurs' stats I saw in Pistons-Wolves game on Sunday.

They showed three lineups ratings. Starting lineup...Small lineup...And Spread lineup

I thought that small and spread were the same because the presence of shooters in both units but I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Biggest elephant on the room is Lauvergne. He has been good but there's just no room for him on this Spurs team with the smallball movement. Pau played only 18 minutes today. He already has to come to terms with not finishing games, if he also starts playing less than 20 minutes per game we could see his interest and, as a result, his production plummet. So far, he has been the best player on the team in terms of +/-, it makes no sense to play him so little. It also doesn't make sense to play a 16 mils per year guy just 18 mins per game.

Then we have the Murray/Forbes/Paul situation. There's room only for two of them on the rotation (and that's without Tony and Kawhi). I have been a big Murray supporter but if he doesn't start producing, I would say to give the time to Forbes and Paul. Forbes, specially, seems to be on the verge of deserving an even bigger role (PATFO should have let Mills go, smh).

And then there's Bertans. I don't know how, but Pop needs to find him playing time.

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Youre not smart if you use +-

Fuck no. This time of the season you figure out which players did well with each other and versus what matchups. Tightening rotations are for the playoffs, not November.

It seems a bit premature to be tightening rotations in November, tbh.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Fuck no. This time of the season you figure out which players did well with each other and versus what matchups. Tightening rotations are for the playoffs, not November.

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Originally Posted by lefty20

It seems a bit premature to be tightening rotations in November, tbh.

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You can't be playing 12 men everygame either, tbh.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

You can't be playing 12 men everygame either, tbh.

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Against the most shitty-ass team in the league you can.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Against the most shitty-ass team in the league you can.

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Folks like Gasol and Gay need to play more than 18 minutes to keep their egos healthy, tbh.

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Originally Posted by YGWHI

I would kill for having the Spurs' stats I saw in Pistons-Wolves game on Sunday.

They showed three lineups ratings. Starting lineup...Small lineup...And Spread lineup

I thought that small and spread were the same because the presence of shooters in both units but I was wrong.

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What's the difference?

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Biggest elephant on the room is Lauvergne. He has been good but there's just no room for him on this Spurs team with the smallball movement. Pau played only 18 minutes today. He already has to come to terms with not finishing games, if he also starts playing less than 20 minutes per game we could see his interest and, as a result, his production plummet. So far, he has been the best player on the team in terms of +/-, it makes no sense to play him so little. It also doesn't make sense to play a 16 mils per year guy just 18 mins per game.Then we have the Murray/Forbes/Paul situation. There's room only for two of them on the rotation (and that's without Tony and Kawhi). I have been a big Murray supporter but if he doesn't start producing, I would say to give the time to Forbes and Paul. Forbes, specially, seems to be on the verge of deserving an even bigger role (PATFO should have let Mills go, smh).And then there's Bertans. I don't know how, but Pop needs to find him playing time.

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:wakeup

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Folks like Gasol and Gay need to play more than 18 minutes to keep their egos healthy, tbh.

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Gasol was a waste of money and Gay has really come back down to earth lately. I agree Forbes and Bertrand should play more.

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

What's the difference?

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If I got it...The difference is floor spacing and personnel.

For example, in the small-ball lineups most times they use SFs at 4 like KD or Giannis relying on individual mismatches, in the spread lineups they can play PFs at 4 if they can play inside and outside having a 3-point shoot.

They also talked about the different shots they get and the numbers of possessions. Small-ball lineups seemed more faster than the other two.

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Originally Posted by Play Boban

:wakeup

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:cry

after the 2 starting lineups, No other lineup has more than 22 minutes together this year :wow

edit: maybe not, NBA.com might be a few games behind with these stats

It's still a long season. You want these guys worn out by the all Star game?

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Originally Posted by tholdren

Youre not smart if you use +-

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Name me one great player who had a negative +/-

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Fuck no. This time of the season you figure out which players did well with each other and versus what matchups. Tightening rotations are for the playoffs, not November.

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I could see it to some degree if we had a real chance at the one seed though.

In November? No. Too many guys need work, too many combinations need trying out.

Gasol and Gay need to have minutes managed because of age and injuries. 20 minutes is more than enough to mantain you trained and involve you in the system. imho Its also a good way to let them concentrate more on their production with different line ups and against different opponents...

Yes, good idea!

Let's tighten up the rotation so the players can arrive fresh for the PO...

November isn't even over and the OP is ready to cut a player that just came back from injury. :lol

tighten the overall rotations is not what I have in mind ... but focus on different players in different games ... give Bertans a longer look in one game and Lauvergne in another ... Pop is mixing it up a little too much which was especially the case when he played Manu in a second half after not using him in the first half --> this only means Pop cares a lot about the record

Mills needs to go... Why is Dj the scapegoat? He hasn't been playing poorly... He just isn't looking to score like he was at the beginning of the season... And u already know my reasoning behind that... Mills has been complete trash... Hasn't been passing well, nor shooting well... And his defense has been putrid! He should be cut and forbes should be given his role, even though forbes doesn't play good defense either... It isn't as bad as mills'... We KNOW we won't win with Patty... But if DJ develops, he WILL be a game changer with his defense and penetration...

Tighten the rotation... And we are still in the FIRST 20 games of the season. LOL!!!!

Make sure they play Kawhi 40+ min/gm when he comes back too. Hahahahahah... OMG, can't breathe!!! Lololololol!!!!!!! Bahahahahaha....

Dumbass.

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Originally Posted by Fireball

tighten the overall rotations is not what I have in mind ... but focus on different players in different games ... give Bertans a longer look in one game and Lauvergne in another ... Pop is mixing it up a little too much which was especially the case when he played Manu in a second half after not using him in the first half --> this only means Pop cares a lot about the record

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I agree with you. You are on fire.

It seems to me Pop would like to give extended looks to everyone at some point but guys have to pull their weight. If the game isn’t going well he can’t afford to do it for too long.

Lauvergne and Murray are playing themselves out of the rotation (unfortunately so for the latter)..

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Biggest elephant on the room is Lauvergne. He has been good but there's just no room for him on this Spurs team with the smallball movement. Pau played only 18 minutes today. He already has to come to terms with not finishing games, if he also starts playing less than 20 minutes per game we could see his interest and, as a result, his production plummet. So far, he has been the best player on the team in terms of +/-, it makes no sense to play him so little. It also doesn't make sense to play a 16 mils per year guy just 18 mins per game.

Then we have the Murray/Forbes/Paul situation. There's room only for two of them on the rotation (and that's without Tony and Kawhi). I have been a big Murray supporter but if he doesn't start producing, I would say to give the time to Forbes and Paul. Forbes, specially, seems to be on the verge of deserving an even bigger role (PATFO should have let Mills go, smh).

And then there's Bertans. I don't know how, but Pop needs to find him playing time.

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I would say way the pro's & con's for them 3..

BF -- Better shooter than DM, by a mile
BP -- Better shooter than DM & Defender than both DM & BF+
DM -- He is taller (lol), gets more boards..
Who is in a position to help the SPURS now or even next season.

Dude, we aren't even 20 games in. Pop is going to experiment with lineups all season like he does every single year and the rotation for the playoffs will likely be cemented in March. Too early for this imho

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Fuck no. This time of the season you figure out which players did well with each other and versus what matchups. Tightening rotations are for the playoffs, not November.

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This

Nine spots seem to be solidified

Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge -- Guaranteed Starters
Anderson, Gasol -- Flex Starters
Mills, Ginobili, Gay -- Guaranteed Bench Players

And I expect that to be the nine-man rotation in the playoffs. However, due to how flexible Anderson, Gay and Manu are, that 10th spot could go to Joff, Bryn, Brandon, Davis or DeJounte equally well. Honestly, you have to give all those guys chances to show what they can do, because there are pluses and minuses for each guy:

Joff -- Allows the team to start Gasol and continue to try to win with size; Limits small-ball and a Joff/Pau lineup is prone to exploitation
Bryn -- Second unit gets another spacer who has offensive upside to make the bench deadly again; Mills/Forbes is a small back-court with defensive issue
Brandon -- Second unit gets a defender to spell Kawhi and Danny while also not losing much shooting; Sometimes has a rash of bad decisions on both ends and is a jack of all trades, master of none
Davis -- Second Unit has gets shot-blocking potential with Gay, Bertans and Gasol in the front court, in addition to potentially elite shooting; Below average perimeter D and terrible rebounding
DeJounte -- Second Unit would have multiple players who can drive and kick, and rebounding and perimeter D would have upside; Spacing would likely be affected, and turnovers would likely increase.

Don't care who's in and out of the playoffs rotation, but Forbes has to be in it.

As for Gasol's feelings.... who gives a shit. That faggot requesting a trade because he's unhappy would be the best thing to happen to this team.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Nine spots seem to be solidified

Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge -- Guaranteed Starters
Anderson, Gasol -- Flex Starters
Mills, Ginobili, Gay -- Guaranteed Bench Players

And I expect that to be the nine-man rotation in the playoffs. However, due to how flexible Anderson, Gay and Manu are, that 10th spot could go to Joff, Bryn, Brandon, Davis or DeJounte equally well. Honestly, you have to give all those guys chances to show what they can do, because there are pluses and minuses for each guy:

Joff -- Allows the team to start Gasol and continue to try to win with size; Limits small-ball and a Joff/Pau lineup is prone to exploitation
Bryn -- Second unit gets another spacer who has offensive upside to make the bench deadly again; Mills/Forbes is a small back-court with defensive issue
Brandon -- Second unit gets a defender to spell Kawhi and Danny while also not losing much shooting; Sometimes has a rash of bad decisions on both ends and is a jack of all trades, master of none
Davis -- Second Unit has gets shot-blocking potential with Gay, Bertans and Gasol in the front court, in addition to potentially elite shooting; Below average perimeter D and terrible rebounding
DeJounte -- Second Unit would have multiple players who can drive and kick, and rebounding and perimeter D would have upside; Spacing would likely be affected, and turnovers would likely increase.

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Great summary. I agree completely on current upside/downside of each. Though I think Joff still has to show that at least he can perform his niche well. I am not sure he's playing that well personally, at least everyone else one can tell what they can do well and what they bring.
Also, they sound like a lot of situational players, with at least one thing they bring and can do at an elite level to maybe change the momentum of a game, whether that is someone making Belinelli sized big buckets or something else. They should all probably continue to get opportunities. It's possible some guys take themselves out of the running, but it wouldn't be a terrible thing if they all play well within their niche.

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

What's the difference?

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Maybe the difference isn't between small, big, and spread, but small, big and medium. We have a lot of players in that 6'5 to 6'10 range and when looking for match-up advantages over other teams, we can substitute with three different looks and offensive and defensive skill sets. I really believe Pop is exploring a new type of NBA team--one where all sorts of players can fit into the rotation and play to their strengths. Persnally, I like to see this type of team rotations and I bet the bench does as well.

I'd agree with op if this was april

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Biggest elephant on the room is Lauvergne. He has been good but there's just no room for him on this Spurs team with the smallball movement. Pau played only 18 minutes today. He already has to come to terms with not finishing games, if he also starts playing less than 20 minutes per game we could see his interest and, as a result, his production plummet. So far, he has been the best player on the team in terms of +/-, it makes no sense to play him so little. It also doesn't make sense to play a 16 mils per year guy just 18 mins per game.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Then we have the Murray/Forbes/Paul situation. There's room only for two of them on the rotation (and that's without Tony and Kawhi). I have been a big Murray supporter but if he doesn't start producing, I would say to give the time to Forbes and Paul. Forbes, specially, seems to be on the verge of deserving an even bigger role (PATFO should have let Mills go, smh).

And then there's Bertans. I don't know how, but Pop needs to find him playing time.

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Basically said as much in the "What's up with Bertans?" thread.

Lauvergne has not been good and even if he were, he should have always been utilized as Gasol and Aldridge insurance, since he's the only other player (not counting Costello) that can at least somewhat credibly play center. Typical Pop, with his usual "this guy's been a pro for a long time, he's not impressed by any of this" routine with foreigners. Reality is, he's the same age as Paul and to this point has shown himself to be no more than a fringe player.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Nine spots seem to be solidified

Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge -- Guaranteed Starters
Anderson, Gasol -- Flex Starters
Mills, Ginobili, Gay -- Guaranteed Bench Players

And I expect that to be the nine-man rotation in the playoffs. However, due to how flexible Anderson, Gay and Manu are, that 10th spot could go to Joff, Bryn, Brandon, Davis or DeJounte equally well. Honestly, you have to give all those guys chances to show what they can do, because there are pluses and minuses for each guy.

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Thought months ago the playoff rotation would be those 9, with the 10 spot playing no more than spot minutes based on match-up and situation.

I don't see a case for Lauvergne and the only one for Murray, is that he play instead of Parker or Mills, which isn't happening. Otherwise, it should be narrowed to Bertans, Forbes and Paul.

If u guys think we are gonna win a ring without a starting point guard that can break down the defense, you're smoking crack

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Originally Posted by duncan2k5

If u guys think we are gonna win a ring without a starting point guard that can break down the defense, you're smoking crack

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I said Kyle was a flex starter. What more do you want?

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Originally Posted by DAF86

:cry

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:wakeup

Lauvergne is the elephant?

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Originally Posted by superbigtime

Lauvergne is the elephant?

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not sure...

but I think he's supposed to be a big that brings something similar to what David Lee brought... Being a good energy big, hustle rebounder and good roller. Alas, his energy is noticed in rebounds and he's been a better passer than I expected, but he hasn't been a good roller or finisher in the paint and I think if he doesn't improve there, one just cannot justify his playing time.

I do expect Pop to give him more opportunities. He has played too little to say anything conclusive... but if he isn't pulling his weight, then his minutes will get smaller.

Already a big like Davis Bertans who is flawed in rebounding and big man hustle, as well as rolling, can get his minutes because he can at least give better spacing to others and elite shooting. And if Lauvergne isn't going to be better on defense than Bertans, then for spot minutes Bertans is better.

No more Lauvergne, tbh.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

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Will he dress or not
..

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Originally Posted by DAF86

No more Lauvergne, tbh.

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agree. I know there was a matchup issue here with Cousins, but he's been bad, very bad.
Maybe the Spurs even need to pick a different big eventually and waive him, in case someone is in foul trouble or Pau or Lamarcus needs a rest game. He makes me miss Dedmon, Lee, etc.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

agree. I know there was a matchup issue here with Cousins, but he's been bad, very bad.
Maybe the Spurs even need to pick a different big eventually and waive him, in case someone is in foul trouble or Pau or Lamarcus needs a rest game. He makes me miss Dedmon, Lee, etc.

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Lauvergne is fine as the 11th or 12th guy, imho.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Lauvergne is fine as the 11th or 12th guy, imho.

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I much prefer a guy that even if he's offensively challenged has chops on defense for that spot... personally.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

No more Lauvergne, tbh.

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His advanced stats have always been terrible, no matter the role or minutes. It's a good indicator he wouldn't do well in increased minutes. Even a career 5th big like Jeff Withey blows him out of the water.

No Lauvergne tonight. Good, tbh.

2 games down

There's no room for all of Tony, Mills and Forbes out there. Pop needs to man up and leave one out.

Interesting topic. We shall see what happens.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

There's no room for all of Tony, Mills and Forbes out there. Pop needs to man up and leave one out.

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It seems like Tony is less and less a sure thing.

Something's got to give. If they ever get healthy this season, Forbes would have to be out of the rotation and 1 of Parker, Mills, Ginobili, Gay or Anderson, would have to be reduced to spot minutes. Whether you want that to happen or not, who actually envisions it happening?

Ginobili probably retires after this season and one of Gay or Bertans is probably gone, but if Forbes is re-signed, rotational gymnastics will still be somewhat required.

The last time it was this obvious they needed to make a trade was . . . 2011.

55 games in and Pop is playing 12 man lineups, a gleague call up, changing the starting lineup and playing everyone but Aldridge between 14-24 minutes.

Some guys have definitely fallen off the rotation: BP3 and Joff.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Something's got to give. If they ever get healthy this season, Forbes would have to be out of the rotation and 1 of Parker, Mills, Ginobili, Gay or Anderson, would have to be reduced to spot minutes. Whether you want that to happen or not, who actually envisions it happening?

Ginobili probably retires after this season and one of Gay or Bertans is probably gone, but if Forbes is re-signed, rotational gymnastics will still be somewhat required.

The last time it was this obvious they needed to make a trade was . . . 2011.

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Think Forbes is one of those guys that can slip out of the rotation and keep coming back into play bc of his shooting and scoring ability off the dribble. If it wasn’t for the fact Pop has many entrenched veterans I think he would unquestionably have Forbes as a rotation piece. He has been shooting that well lately while many of his guards have been floundering offensively from game to game. I imagine they want him back but something has got to give. Next season they are due to play White as well or at least give him a chance.

Pop still playing 12 men lineups...

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

Pop still playing 12 men lineups...

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Anderson played like dog shit

6 games winning streak late in March, what to do? Make another line-up change, of course. :lol